If Stan Heath is such a sorry coach....

[NavyHog]

how did he take Kent State to the Final 8?

I don't want to hear any nonsense about how he did it with "someone else's" players.  He was the HC of that team and no matter who recruited them he took led a lowly MAC team to 30 wins and was one win away from the Final Four.

I'm so sick of the Heath bashing.  He represents the university well, players are graduating, our record has been better EVERY YEAR, and recruiting is up. 

Here is good story of why I like Stan.  The night of the Bucknell loss he was in the stands watching Patrick Beverly play in the Illinois Public School semi-finals.  He wasn't sulking over the loss.  He had put in the past and was working to make our program better.

[Richard_white]

how did he take Kent State to the Final 8?

I don't want to hear any nonsense about how he did it with "someone else's" players.  He was the HC of that team and no matter who recruited them he took led a lowly MAC team to 30 wins and was one win away from the Final Four.

I'm so sick of the Heath bashing.  He represents the university well, players are graduating, our record has been better EVERY YEAR, and recruiting is up. 

Here is good story of why I like Stan.  The night of the Bucknell loss he was in the stands watching Patrick Beverly play in the Illinois Public School semi-finals.  He wasn't sulking over the loss.  He had put in the past and was working to make our program better.

Here is why I say that he is a YOUNG and UNEXPERIENCE coach.  See Bucknell game.

[NavyHog]

Is that the only M'**** game we played last year? How about the Bama game at home where we put the box and one on Steele to come back to win? How about the game at Tennessee where we totally neutralized their press by inbounding the ball over their guards to the taller Brewer.  If he gets all the blame for the losses does he at least get to claim the good wins?

I will go to my grave stating that if scholarship BB players hit their free throws we advance against Bucknell.  But we didn't so that loss is the HC's fault.  I get that.  But for the love of God there were OTHER games last year than Bucknell!

[Richard_white]

Is that the only M'**** game we played last year? How about the Bama game at home where we put the box and one on Steele to come back to win? How about the game at Tennessee where we totally neutralized their press by inbounding the ball over their guards to the taller Brewer.  If he gets all the blame for the losses does he at least get to claim the good wins?

I will go to my grave stating that if scholarship BB players hit their free throws we advance against Bucknell.  But we didn't so that loss is the HC's fault.  I get that.  But for the love of God there were OTHER games last year than Bucknell!

Dude, it's okay put the coffee down.  I also remember the Miss St game. huh? I said Miss St.

I can go on but I believe you watched the same games that I did.  If not, let me know and I will help remind you.

[NavyHog]

Yeah I remember Mississippi State.  1st game of the year on the road.  We lost after taking the lead by 2 with 40 seconds left.  Yet another game where free throws killed us (10-21).  If you don't remember that I can link the boxscore to help remind you.

[Yo Huckleberry]

It is pretty well known that Kent's senior ladened team lost early, rebelled against SH's philosophy, met w/him & got him to agree to return to the previous season's offense, and finished out the season successfully, pretty much taking the bull by the horns & coaching themselves. That's how. As for Bucknell v. other games: once the tournament starts, the rest is irrelevant. The embarrassment of losing that game overshadowed anything allgedly positive (HA!) about the regular season. Finally, yes, I appreciate his recruiting efforts. The kids want to see the HEAD coach, not assistants. That is why NR failed after signing his fat contract extension and that is why HDN should turn the game planning over to his assistants and devote his every waking moment to recruiting.

[Richard_white]

Yeah I remember Mississippi State.  1st game of the year on the road.  We lost after taking the lead by 2 with 40 seconds left.  Yet another game where free throws killed us (10-21).  If you don't remember that I can link the boxscore to help remind you.

LOL  Nah I have the game.  I watched it 3 or 4 times.  Free throws missed cost us winning the game?  I thought it was coaching.  I didn't think we should let a team like Miss St stay with us all game for us to lose on free throws. 

I like Stan EXCUSE in the Bucknell game.  I was saving our legs for our shooters.  Okay, we shot what, something in the high 20's in that game?  Memphis took care of what we couldn't do against Bucknell.

[NavyHog]

You may not think so, but I will submit to you that 10-21 from the free throw line will get you beat on the road.

[Richard_white]

You may not think so, but I will submit to you that 10-21 from the free throw line will get you beat on the road.

I can find more reasons why we lost to Miss St than just FT%.  Especially against Bucknell.

[Brosshog]

Well if you think he's so great then tell us why we can't win more games? Tell us why he said when he came here that he was going to make sure that we rebounded and to this day he still doesn't know how to teach the players how to rebound or attack a zone defense? It's pretty bad that our AD has to tell him that he needs to hire ex-head coaches to help him coach his own players. Sounds like a pretty piss poor coach to me.

[HairyHog]

There is always a "chance" that you will win the lottery, or be struck by lightening.

[dana caldwell]

It is pretty well known that Kent's senior ladened team lost early, rebelled against SH's philosophy, met w/him & got him to agree to return to the previous season's offense, and finished out the season successfully, pretty much taking the bull by the horns & coaching themselves. That's how.

that's it! mike davis had a nice run in beating him, too. how'd the IU thing work out for him?

those guys just weren't ready for the next step simply bc of one run fueled by others' players.

i'll not list all my reasons for not being enamored with heath here. most have read 'em all before and they're common complaints of most fans.

i will say, tho, that i was shocked at how heath decided to play bucknell. i thot all those years and all that ncaa tourney success under izzo (as well as his elite eight run) had taught him how to handle just such common ncaa scenarios (i.e. easily dispatching of lesser talented and heightened foes). that was one hope i held out for the guy and he fell flat.

[NavyHog]

My point is not to "wash away" the Bucknell loss.  I too was angry that the way we lost that game.  However, I think our fans have placed to much emphasis on that game and not looked at the season as a whole.

The good:

10-6 tied for third overall w/Florida and Alabama
22 wins
A top 10 win on the road.
A win over Big 12 champion Kansas.

Sure there were bad spells:

Bucknell loss on the road
Loss to an abysmal Ole Miss team
Failure to cover the 3 pt line in our last 2 losses to Florida and Bucknell

Still as a body of work the 2005-2006 season was "more good" than bad.  And I think this year will be better than last.  We return all our post players and bring in the most talented group of guards since the Mayberry/Day/Hawkins group.  Am I the only one on this board that sees it this way?

[dana caldwell]

i hear ya, navyhog. and no offense, but i think most of us expected something stronger than "more good than bad" last season, his FOURTH.

that's what it boils down to for detractors. admittedly, he could shock the crap out of me and do something similar to what nolan accomplished in Year 5. few would be happier than me, a guy who wore hog garb for the first time in six years to a local sports bar only to be goaded like hell for such a stupid game plan (bucknell), should heath and the hogs accomplish that this season. i'm not at all like some nutt bashers who want the team to fail just to be rid of him. not even close to that. believe it or not.

[wrightobe]

Yeah I remember Mississippi State.  1st game of the year on the road.  We lost after taking the lead by 2 with 40 seconds left.  Yet another game where free throws killed us (10-21).  If you don't remember that I can link the boxscore to help remind you.

LOL  Nah I have the game.  I watched it 3 or 4 times.  Free throws missed cost us winning the game?  I thought it was coaching.  I didn't think we should let a team like Miss St stay with us all game for us to lose on free throws. 

I like Stan EXCUSE in the Bucknell game.  I was saving our legs for our shooters.  Okay, we shot what, something in the high 20's in that game?  Memphis took care of what we couldn't do against Bucknell.

It is amazing how some fans discredit other schools basketball teams, as if they will not show up to play.  It is supposed to be a "gimmee" game?

If you will look closely, many times they are close to the same height, weight, and were great players in high school.

They are taught by their coaches and fan base, they are supposed to win, and that is what they are going to try to do.

We now have a point guard on our team that transferred from Miss. State.

Is he supposed to be a lot better since he bacame Razorback?

He tried to win at Miss. State, and he will try to win as Razorback.

It's called being a competitor, and that is what all these football and basketball players are!!

[Hoggy Bear]

It is pretty well known that Kent's senior ladened team lost early, rebelled against SH's philosophy, met w/him & got him to agree to return to the previous season's offense, and finished out the season successfully, pretty much taking the bull by the horns & coaching themselves. That's how. As for Bucknell v. other games: once the tournament starts, the rest is irrelevant. The embarrassment of losing that game overshadowed anything allgedly positive (HA!) about the regular season. Finally, yes, I appreciate his recruiting efforts. The kids want to see the HEAD coach, not assistants. That is why NR failed after signing his fat contract extension and that is why HDN should turn the game planning over to his assistants and devote his every waking moment to recruiting.

You have it backwards.  The seniors agreed to play Stan Heath's style, not vice versa, and then they started winning.  Read the ESPN The Magazine article on the Kent State team from a few years ago and you will see.

[Yo Huckleberry]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Kent St. story because all that was ever publicized around here was my version.

[jkcrunch]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Kent St. story because all that was ever publicized around here was my version.

Dont take this the wrong way Huck but he gives you a well respected national publication and you want to take the word of internet posters from Arkansas who ahd never talked to Stan or player from Kent St.

Look Stan is a work in progress and fan want him to be a finished product already.  He is good at getting players, and making good impression in the national spolight both are opposite of the end of the Nolan tenure.   Last year he got better at managing a game but he still has work to do.   He has shown promise in game planning at times but really falls short in adapting to game flow or working the official.

We as fans thought we were getting a young protege not that was not the case.

[Hogz87]

This team would have potential to be very special had Brewer stayed.  He didn't so we have to move on and make things go without him.

If Earvin and McCurdy can efficiently run the point then the other guards should be able to score.  Washington is a great shooter, and Weems is a scorer and has potential to hurt teams in several different ways.  And that will be the weakest part of our team.

Where we will and should hurt teams this year is with our inside game.  I've said since Townes was a freshman, and still feel the same way.  He has the ability to be an All-American.  I don't think he quite has the passion and drive yet of one but if he'd play like he's capable he could be the best post man in the SEC(yes I know Noah and Horford are still around).

I pray to God that someone has been working with Hills inside game and confidence with the ball.  We don't need him to average 15 a game.  We do need 8-12 a game this year though.  Why can't he score at least 8 a game?!? He's a 7 footer, I don't care if you can't walk and chew gum at the same time, there is no excuse for his pitiful offensive game.  The thing is he's coordinated and a solid athlete. 

And we need for Vincent Hunter and Charles Thomas both to realize something...your not guards!  Yes, they both can play out on the perimeter a little bit and knock down the outside shot, but they are back to the basket first type players.  Thomas more so than Hunter.  I was very surprised with the way VH came back after his injury and rebounded for us and got some crucial trash points in big games.  However, I did get very aggravated when a guard would kick it out to VH on the wing and he'd jack up a 3.  If he's wide open and we've worked the ball around in our offense a little bit I have no problem with him shooting a 3.

If, and this is a big if, but if Washington, Weems, Beverly, and Earvin can click and adjust to SEC play, and our big men take the load of the scoring(mainly Townes and Thomas) then this team could be at least a second round team in the NCAA Tourney.  Had Brewer stayed I would have them as a solid Elite 8 team.

[Cornhogio]

Is that the only M'**** game we played last year? How about the Bama game at home where we put the box and one on Steele to come back to win? How about the game at Tennessee where we totally neutralized their press by inbounding the ball over their guards to the taller Brewer.  If he gets all the blame for the losses does he at least get to claim the good wins?

I will go to my grave stating that if scholarship BB players hit their free throws we advance against Bucknell.  But we didn't so that loss is the HC's fault.  I get that.  But for the love of God there were OTHER games last year than Bucknell!

Simma down now!  Sounds to me like someone tried to pick up the powdered soap in the shower! 

[Yo Huckleberry]

team compromised w/Heath after "near mutiny" at the beginning of the season. The kids wanted to run/trap/play the way they had done with the previous coach. SH struck a compromise. Sounds like they took up some of his boring, Big10, half court game. How much, I dunno.

[Hoghead]

Stan Heath thinks he's a Big Time D1 Coach. He gets paid like one. But he's mediocre at best. his Kent St. run was a stroke of luck that landed him at Arkansas. I personally didn't care for the choice when they announced him as the New Coach. When he said he'd have to get used to the "Hog Call" I knew he was gonna be a little weak. He smiles entirley to much in his interviews after a big win over the likes of "Radford". Then slides in to a excuse matrix a mile long on losses! His brand of basketball is about as exciting as a wake at your local Funeral Home! He's classy guy to the point of being almost too classey! Bouggie as one would say of someone who doesn't know where he came from or is lost where he's at. He's lost at Arkansas and the SEC. I'm praying a Big 10 team comes along and swipes him up like a UFO on a mission to earth! Stan is a nice human being who deserves to be at home in Michigan somewhere coaching.

[williamsB]

NavyHog, these posters are not saying they know more about basketball than Stan or could do a better job than him, they are just saying he did not win enough games for them.

[Hoggy Bear]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Kent St. story because all that was ever publicized around here was my version.

From ESPN The Magazine..................

After Kent State's Tourney trip last season, easy-flowing coach Gary Waters left for Rutgers. His replacement, former Michigan State assistant Stan Heath, imported Spartan structure as well as Tom Izzo's infamous rebounding drills. Huffman was shell-shocked. "I was pretty much afraid to talk to him in the beginning," he says.

The tension boiled over early in the season when Huffman missed a morning meeting, then went toe-to-toe in a war of words with Heath, in front of the entire squad. "It was just an argument over the way things used to be and what he wanted to change," Huffman says.

But his teammates were just as slow to adapt: The Golden Flashes dropped four of their first eight. Finally, after a loss to Youngstown State on Dec. 15, the boys decided they'd had enough. First they called a players-only meeting, then told Heath they were ready to buy into his system. Kent's gone 25-2 ever since, riding a 20-game winning streak into the Tourney's second weekend.

Ironically, it's their combativeness with each other that makes this team tick. At times, the Flashes seem on the verge of breaking into an on-court squab. "We pretty much say whatever we want," Huffman says. "Whether it's 'Get your head out of your butt,' or 'What are you doing?'.  Demetric Shaw smacked me in the face a couple of times and I wanted to punch him. As soon as that moment is over, it's back to patting each other on the butt. We'll do anything to win."

Even if that means making peace with old enemies. Huffman and Heath are now on a first-name basis. "I love playing for Stan," Trevor says. "I love the system. It's helped me take my game to another level."

[NavyHog]

I want you to explain to me how we're supposed to be any better next year.  Not one person has told me how were replacing 35 ppg.  Who's taking the clutch shot? 

How does LSU replace Tyrus Thomas and Darrell Mitchell? Players graduate and leave early all the time.  The good teams find away to overcome and adapt. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I think we will be better because the guards we are bringing in (plus McCurdy) are better than the guards we lose.  Of course as you know we return all our posts and I really think Steven Hill will realize his potential on both ends of the court.

In the backcourt Ervin has starting experience in the SEC for a NCAA tournament team and was the #36 player (#4 PG) coming out of prep school.  Beverly is a Top 75 type w/big time range and quickness.  Weems was the #1 Juco recruit in the preseason and was recruited by every big time school in the South/Southwest.  And Welsh is a strong (not quite as quick as Beverly) combo guard who spent the past year at Hargrave playing big time competition (that team and 8 other D1 recruits on it).   Per Scout he was the #20th ranked SG this year.  I also like the potential of McCurdy who has shown a knack for penetrating the middle and dishing off.

As great as Brewer was, as good of a scorer as Modica was, as good as a defender as Ferguson was, they can all be ably replaced by the guys we are bringing in.  Ervin is a natural PG and Weems is a lockdown type of defender.  Beverly averaged 30 pts a game and Welsh can fill it up from outside too.

As far as your other question:

Hey Navyhog....

-Explain to me why we only scored 19 points in the first half against Texas Pan-American
-Blew 18 point lead at Kentucky
-Loss to a pitiful Ole Miss team when they had nothing to play for
-Loss to Mississippi State who was pathetic
-Blown double digit lead at Alabama
-Loss to Bucknell in YEAR FOUR.  The reason we lost was well beyond miss free throws.  We were 15 out of 24 that game.  If we shot 75%, we would have still lost by a point.  The reason we lost was because we played there game and employed the "Fresh Legs" strategy.  He pulled out a gameplan from Dale...you know the ol' not to lose gameplan.  You know what happened.

As far as those situations go I can't "explain" them away.  Bottom line is we lost and the HC is responsible.  I'm not saying he is not.  However, my other main point still stands.  Our record has improved every year, we continue to upgrade our talent (our frontline is one of the better ones in the country), we went 10-6 in the SEC and was a couple of missed free throws from being 12-4, we finally returned to the NCAA tournament and I expect to either win or finish 2nd in the SEC West this year.

We shall see.

[Beaverfever]

I want you to explain to me how we're supposed to be any better next year.  Not one person has told me how were replacing 35 ppg.  Who's taking the clutch shot? 

How does LSU replace Tyrus Thomas and Darrell Mitchell? Players graduate and leave early all the time.  The good teams find away to overcome and adapt. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I think we will be better because the guards we are bringing in (plus McCurdy) are better than the guards we lose.  Of course as you know we return all our posts and I really think Steven Hill will realize his potential on both ends of the court.

In the backcourt Ervin has starting experience in the SEC for a NCAA tournament team and was the #36 player (#4 PG) coming out of prep school.  Beverly is a Top 75 type w/big time range and quickness.  Weems was the #1 Juco recruit in the preseason and was recruited by every big time school in the South/Southwest.  And Welsh is a strong (not quite as quick as Beverly) combo guard who spent the past year at Hargrave playing big time competition (that team and 8 other D1 recruits on it).   Per Scout he was the #20th ranked SG this year.  I also like the potential of McCurdy who has shown a knack for penetrating the middle and dishing off.

As great as Brewer was, as good of a scorer as Modica was, as good as a defender as Ferguson was, they can all be ably replaced by the guys we are bringing in.  Ervin is a natural PG and Weems is a lockdown type of defender.  Beverly averaged 30 pts a game and Welsh can fill it up from outside too.

As far as your other question:

Hey Navyhog....

-Explain to me why we only scored 19 points in the first half against Texas Pan-American
-Blew 18 point lead at Kentucky
-Loss to a pitiful Ole Miss team when they had nothing to play for
-Loss to Mississippi State who was pathetic
-Blown double digit lead at Alabama
-Loss to Bucknell in YEAR FOUR.  The reason we lost was well beyond miss free throws.  We were 15 out of 24 that game.  If we shot 75%, we would have still lost by a point.  The reason we lost was because we played there game and employed the "Fresh Legs" strategy.  He pulled out a gameplan from Dale...you know the ol' not to lose gameplan.  You know what happened.

As far as those situations go I can't "explain" them away.  Bottom line is we lost and the HC is responsible.  I'm not saying he is not.  However, my other main point still stands.  Our record has improved every year, we continue to upgrade our talent (our frontline is one of the better ones in the country), we went 10-6 in the SEC and was a couple of missed free throws from being 12-4, we finally returned to the NCAA tournament and I expect to either win or finish 2nd in the SEC West this year.

We shall see.

What kind of minutes do you see each of those players getting?...oh and washington too.

[NavyHog]

Who's taking the big time shot? I don't know who.  Maybe Ervin, maybe Thomas, maybe Beverly, maybe McCurdy.  Obviously it remains to be seen.

I think the points will be replaced by new guys and some of the old guys.  I'm not really fixated on that like you are.  In the end I think we win more than 22 games because our defense will be better, our outside shooting should be better and our PG play will definitely be better.

By the way our frontcourt defense was much more than just Steven Hill "blocking" a few shots.  They did a pretty good job all year and not just against undermatched teams.  Check out the stats on the 4 games against Florida and Alabama (2 teams w/very good front lines). 

[HatfieldHog]

Stan Heath are Huston Nutt are amazingly alike.  Both good guys with good attitudes.  But, good guys who lose games that they should win, are not liked for very long.  Both have shown signs of promise, and at times, have shown total ineptitude.

Case in point:

-The HDN fourth and 1 call on our own 35 yard line against South Carolina.  Probably the worst call a college football coach has ever made.
-Heath, not turning up the tempo with constant full court pressure on Bucknell, was just what the media said about it,  Idiotic!

Good guys are not necessairly good coaches.

See ya

[yraciv]

Hey Navyhog....

-Explain to me why we only scored 19 points in the first half against Texas Pan-American
-Blew 18 point lead at Kentucky
-Loss to a pitiful Ole Miss team when they had nothing to play for
-Loss to Mississippi State who was pathetic
-Blown double digit lead at Alabama
-Loss to Bucknell in YEAR FOUR.  The reason we lost was well beyond miss free throws.  We were 15 out of 24 that game.  If we shot 75%, we would have still lost by a point.  The reason we lost was because we played there game and employed the "Fresh Legs" strategy.  He pulled out a gameplan from Dale...you know the ol' not to lose gameplan.  You know what happened.

My criticism of Heath is over his four years here.  When evaluating a coach you can't just latch on to one season whether it be good or bad.  Here are the problems we've seen:
-consistent poor performances on the road
-lack of interior defense other than a lot of shot blocks by Hill.  Townes will get backed down any day of the week because he's just worried about getting his 15 points and going back to the dorm
-consistently outrebounded or a push with most teams when we have a large front line and big athletic guards
-no pure shooter
-no true point guard
-no urgency to recruit either of the two aforementioned positions
-Dale Nutt type of assistants until he hired Hipsher
-Plays favorites (Dontell and Olu)
-has given one sideline buttchewing in four years

Heath has done some positives but its appears to me you're looking for reasons as to why people criticize him so I gave you mine.  If you want a list of the good things, I'll be happy to give those to you.

I want you to explain to me how we're supposed to be any better next year.  Not one person has told me how were replacing 35 ppg.  Who's taking the clutch shot? 

Sonny Weems will account for 18! I'm sure Beverly will get at least 7 and Michael Washington is the supposed star recruit. I also believe we signed Welsh and Rakestraw next year who are both great longball shooters.

[GuvHog]

Stan Heath are Huston Nutt are amazingly alike.  Both good guys with good attitudes.  But, good guys who lose games that they should win, are not liked for very long.  Both have shown signs of promise, and at times, have shown total ineptitude.

Case in point:

-The HDN fourth and 1 call on our own 35 yard line against South Carolina.  Probably the worst call a college football coach has ever made.
-Heath, not turning up the tempo with constant full court pressure on Bucknell, was just what the media said about it,  Idiotic!

Good guys are not necessairly good coaches.

See ya

With the OLine the Hogs had last year, not being able to run for at least one yard is inexcusable, no matter where the line of scrimage was!

[NavyHog]

Who's taking the big time shot? I don't know who.  Maybe Ervin, maybe Thomas, maybe Beverly, maybe McCurdy.  Obviously it remains to be seen.

I think the points will be replaced by new guys and some of the old guys.  I'm not really fixated on that like you are.  In the end I think we win more than 22 games because our defense will be better, our outside shooting should be better and our PG play will definitely be better.

By the way our frontcourt defense was much more than just Steven Hill "blocking" a few shots.  They did a pretty good job all year and not just against undermatched teams.  Check out the stats on the 4 games against Florida and Alabama (2 teams w/very good front lines). 

Baloney on the frontcourt defense.  There is no stat for how many times Townes get backed down.  There are no stats for getting beat because of no weakside help.  These are things you observe by more than just looking at the Thursday morning sports section.

It's funny that you can't answer these questions yet come to the conclusion we'll win more games next year.  The only reason I keep asking these questions is that I think they are legitimate.  The answers to these questions will probably determine whether you win or lose.  I'm not sure you can have questions marks beside the "clutch shot column" and "primary and secondary option column" and say we'll win greater than 22 games.  I just don't understand the logic.

At some point you have to figure out who's going to put the ball in the hoop.  This is kind of like entering the football season not knowing who your QB is going to be or who's kicking that clutch field goal in the 4th quarter.  Folks, replacing two bigtime SEC players is not going to be an easy feat!  I'm not trying to be a downer but this will not be the best year.  18-21 wins is where the team we'll probably end up. 

We were in a lot of tight games last year.  If we just lose 10 points of production, we'll go back to a 6-10, maybe 8-8 team.  That's unacceptable in year 5 when there has been no meaningful success in the first four years. 

Again, he had to improve because there was no where to go but up.  We still have road woes and haven't won a single NCAA game in the Heath era.  There have been some positives and I will not deny them but it remains to be seen that he has what it takes to put us on national pedestal which is where a program like Arkansas should be in basketball.  I say he's reached a plateau.  If you want a man to win you 18-24 per year, then you've found your guy.  He'll represent the program well and give us a solid SEC performance but I'm not sure we're going anywhere with him, especially this upcoming season.  Maybe in another year or two if he's afforded the opportunity.  His style of play sure doesn't sit well with the fans and I believe it doesn't sit well with Broyles either.  (I have my reasons for the last statement)

Frontcourt defense was garbage huh? Well tell me smart guy what team other than LSU handed it to us in the paint? Wasn't Florida w/Noah, Horford and Richards, wasn't Bama w/Davidson and Hendrix. 

All this bickering is going nowhere because I am not going to change your mind and vice versa.  You say 18-21 wins and I say 23 or more.  That makes the over/under 22.  Put your money where you mouth is come up with a wager.  I'm confident that I will win this one.

[thehill1414]

To get back to a question on the original post "How did Stan Heath take Kent St to the Elite 8, they were a lowly MAC team"...Kent State was loaded with experience that year. They had a guy by the name of Antonio Gates who now catches TD passes for the San Diego Chargers and is probably the best TE in the NFL.

[SultanofSwine]

The biggest problem I see after 4 years w/ Heath is a complete lack of identity both offensively and defensively, esp. as it relates to the talent he recruited here. We pretty much suck in the half court offense but only play uptempo in short spurts. Interior defense and rebounding leave a lot to be desired too.

Fresh, Townes is a horrible on-the-ball lowpost defender. If his defense was half as good as he thinks his offense is he would be a heck of a ball player.

[LA HAWG]

Why in the world are we talking about Stan Heath and basketball in July?  Talk about a bummer.

[SultanofSwine]

Fresh, you are right most of the real issues that look to be BIG problems are not things found in the stats, atleast not easily. However they are blatantly obvious to anyone watching the games. Last season, I got into a pretty good discussion with my folks about those very things and they took Stan's side and I said fine, these are my points, watch the next game with them in mind and then tell me I am wrong. Before half-time they both agreed with my issues and I didn't say a word during the half.

The game plans are alway reactionary rather than being designed to maximize the potential of our players and plans seem to change so much that there is seldom any continuity to our play thus the streaky play both during the games and over the past few seasons. Until this staff decides what the identity of this team is going to be I don't expect much improvement. Last years team was atleast 6 wins short of where they should have been and regardless of whether or not the win-loss coloumn looked better the team lacked a lot achieving what they were cappable of and that is disappointing.

[Biggus Piggus]

But his teammates were just as slow to adapt: The Golden Flashes dropped four of their first eight. Finally, after a loss to Youngstown State on Dec. 15, the boys decided they'd had enough. First they called a players-only meeting, then told Heath they were ready to buy into his system. Kent's gone 25-2 ever since, riding a 20-game winning streak into the Tourney's second weekend.

That was not an accurate version of what happened.  The Ohio papers had a more thorough one.  The Kent State players did not buy into Heath's offensive system, so he went back to Waters' motion offense.  Heath agreed to this only on condition that they adhere to his defense and rebounding principles, details that he seemed to forget after just one season at Arkansas.  The system that Heath jerry rigged at Kent State was superb, but in his time at Arkansas he's never shown the slightest inclination to try to reconstruct it.  He hasn't recruited players similar in skills/body to the ones he had there.  He moved to motion offense grudgingly after his sets failed over and over.  Defensively, who knows what the crap's going on, and his emphasis on tough-nosed rebounding has never been visible after season one.  It's kinda hard to find another Antonio Gates, to be sure.

[williamsB]

he is horrible and any recruit reading this better listen to these fans. If you sign with Arkansas, you will be very poorly coached and lose a lot of games.

[SultanofSwine]

Thanks for responding here, who's your favorite team?

[dana caldwell]

But his teammates were just as slow to adapt: The Golden Flashes dropped four of their first eight. Finally, after a loss to Youngstown State on Dec. 15, the boys decided they'd had enough. First they called a players-only meeting, then told Heath they were ready to buy into his system. Kent's gone 25-2 ever since, riding a 20-game winning streak into the Tourney's second weekend.

That was not an accurate version of what happened.  The Ohio papers had a more thorough one.  The Kent State players did not buy into Heath's offensive system, so he went back to Waters' motion offense.  Heath agreed to this only on condition that they adhere to his defense and rebounding principles, details that he seemed to forget after just one season at Arkansas.  The system that Heath jerry rigged at Kent State was superb, but in his time at Arkansas he's never shown the slightest inclination to try to reconstruct it.  He hasn't recruited players similar in skills/body to the ones he had there.  He moved to motion offense grudgingly after his sets failed over and over.  Defensively, who knows what the crap's going on, and his emphasis on tough-nosed rebounding has never been visible after season one.  It's kinda hard to find another Antonio Gates, to be sure.

biggus is spot-on here. if u doubt it, go back and look at that kent state team (or just picture it in your mind), then think about what you've seen the last four seasons. huge difference.

the espn piece was mostly damage control quotings by heath and his players. old news by then that was gussied up in hindsight. don't doubt this. heath is SUPER concerned about perceptions and does not readily admit wrong strategy or notions or accept blame.

[HatfieldHog]

I posted that Stan and Huston are a lot alike, well consider the statement from Stan about keeping their legs fresh in the NCAA.  That is about as idiotic a statement as I've ever even heard.  It's things like that, that give Stan a bad reputation.

See ya

[silvertip]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Kent St. story because all that was ever publicized around here was my version.

All I've ever read, more than once, is just what HoggyBear said. The Kent State success story was on account of the player's dropping their resistence to Stan's style, & getting with his program. Don't know where you got your re-write of history.

[silvertip]

Fresh, you are right most of the real issues that look to be BIG problems are not things found in the stats, atleast not easily. However they are blatantly obvious to anyone watching the games. Last season, I got into a pretty good discussion with my folks about those very things and they took Stan's side and I said fine, these are my points, watch the next game with them in mind and then tell me I am wrong. Before half-time they both agreed with my issues and I didn't say a word during the half.

The game plans are alway reactionary rather than being designed to maximize the potential of our players and plans seem to change so much that there is seldom any continuity to our play thus the streaky play both during the games and over the past few seasons. Until this staff decides what the identity of this team is going to be I don't expect much improvement. Last years team was atleast 6 wins short of where they should have been and regardless of whether or not the win-loss coloumn looked better the team lacked a lot achieving what they were cappable of and that is disappointing.

It is just this kind of ridiculous exaggeration that defeats your arguements:

"Last year's team was at least 6 wins short of where they should have been..."

Oh yeah, NOW I see. So intead of 22-10, we SHOULD HAVE been AT LEAST 28-4. Because, now really, UConn, Maryland, Florida, Alabama, LSU---those poor teams really sucked & had no business beating us. NOW, I understand, thanks.

[SultanofSwine]

How many games did we lose by less than 10 points last year? I know several games we failed to win we made late charges and came up a little short. In those games how could we play so well the final 4 or 5 minutes but couldn't use that energy level with say 10 minutes to play or even eight minutes. That little bit of extended effort to match the final 4 would have won most of those games. 6 additional wins is not a stretch at all.

[SultanofSwine]

See there you go Fresh, widly eggzadgeratin that last years team could have actually been better than thier final record showed. Where do you get such a notion?

[williamsB]

Stan will not ever win anything at Arkansas

[Biggus Piggus]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Kent St. story because all that was ever publicized around here was my version.

All I've ever read, more than once, is just what HoggyBear said. The Kent State success story was on account of the player's dropping their resistence to Stan's style, & getting with his program. Don't know where you got your re-write of history.

He clearly said the Ohio papers.  What part of that was hard to understand?

We of course discussed all this on this and previous boards years ago.  Waste of time to re-educate people who won't bother to do the work.

[williamsB]

Stan got luck yonce and has shown zero coaching at Arkansas

[RazorBrad]

stan had one good year, but it is obvious he is in way over his head a a majoe d1 school.

1. where is the rebounding

2where is the free throw shooting

3. why do you save your players legs in a game that you are losing and the scenerio is one loss and your done

4. why do you put a freshman in the last seconds of a game when he hasnt played and is cold when everyone knew the other team was gonna foul

5. how can you be a d1 head coach and not know how to teach your team to attack a zone defense.

6. why does he constantly let his team jack threes instead of going inside when they havent  been shooting god from the outside, yet were productive in the middle

  thats just a few of my gripes.

[Hogz87]

Stan got luck yonce and has shown zero coaching at Arkansas

Kind of sounds like a certain football coach on the Hill...

[Yo Huckleberry]

  :razorback: