I uinderstand some teams located in big recruiting zones

[Peter Porker]

I dont know, there are those here who tell us all you gotta do is hire the right coach and the players AND fans just have to want it. Maybe they are right, if a team has a 5'9" 130lb corner back that runs a 5.1 if he wants it bad enough he can cover a 6'3" 210 lb wr that runs a 4.4.

Don't forget you can get the right coach and a dual threat QB and all our problems are gone. We will never lose another game. well, just as long as the backup gets "quality time" and the players put on "good weight".

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

Here's a heat map of every top-15 recruit's hometown, from 2000 to 2017, using consensus rankings from the 247Sports Composite. This comes, initially, from our collection of 25 maps that explain college football.



https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/8/23/12607342/recruits-states-rankings

Great post!

Just goes to show, yet again, that proximity to talent = better recruiting. The OP and several others in this thread won't ever see it but then again, it's hard to see anything through constant tears.

[hogsanity]

Great post!

Just goes to show, yet again, that proximity to talent = better recruiting. The OP and several others in this thread won't ever see it but then again, it's hard to see anything through constant tears.

They see it, they just do not want to acknowledge the fact that the most important thing to a college football program, is one problem the Hogs really can't fix.

[EastexHawg]

They see it, they just do not want to acknowledge the fact that the most important thing to a college football program, is one problem the Hogs really can't fix.

It has apparently been "fixed" at times in the past.  Why do people keep arguing that something can't be done when it has already been done?  Do they think everyone else forgot or that they can't at least use a search engine?

[Deep Shoat]

It has apparently been "fixed" at times in the past.  Why do people keep arguing that something can't be done when it has already been done?  Do they think everyone else forgot or that they can't at least use a search engine?

it hasn't been "fixed" since the fricking early 80's.  If then.  This isn't your grandpa's college football.  Players stay within 250-300 miles of where they were raised, by and large.  Arkansas will NEVER be a consistent top 10 recruiting school. 

No matter how many times you say the same dumb crap.

[NuttinItUp]

How the hell was Nebraska ever good? They are in no man's land out there.

Also, Washington made the playoffs last year and their recruiting situation is worse than ours.

[hogsanity]

It has apparently been "fixed" at times in the past.  Why do people keep arguing that something can't be done when it has already been done?  Do they think everyone else forgot or that they can't at least use a search engine?

Fixed would be having the talented DEPTH to get to a 10 + win level and stay there. What the hogs have ALWAYS had is a 7 win program that, when things line up just right, rises up to win 9 or 10+ for a year or 2 then goes back down.

[hogsanity]

How the hell was Nebraska ever good? They are in no man's land out there.

Also, Washington made the playoffs last year and their recruiting situation is worse than ours.

Nebraska used to exploit a loophole in the scholarship rules that allowed them to put players on AG scholarships. That's why they always seemed to have sr lines. Once that loophole was closed, NEB started to decline.

Washington recruits northern Cali alot.

[Cinco de Hogo]

An easy way to look at this: Would Nick Saban have the same record here he has had at Bama? If your answer is no, why?

Right but what if you ask:  Would Nick Saban win an SECC at Arkansas?  Isn't that what we want?  Does anybody expect the same record?  Coaches like Saban and Petrino ARE the reason why.  CBB might be but it will only happen if he hires the right assistants, and I will say it looks promising right now.

Something has to get out of the way of the team playing at a high level and completing games. 

[NuttinItUp]

Nebraska used to exploit a loophole in the scholarship rules that allowed them to put players on AG scholarships. That's why they always seemed to have sr lines. Once that loophole was closed, NEB started to decline.

Good to know. Thanks for the info.

Washington recruits northern Cali alot.

We are closer to a lot of better hotspots (Dallas, Houston, Louisiana) than Washington is to Cali.

[EastexHawg]

Until 1973 college programs could offer as many football scholarships as they wanted.  Want to sign 80 per year and have 250 total?  No problem.  Everyone in the country could do it.  Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, LSU, everyone.  There was no need to try to bend the rules and put a player on some other kind of scholarship because there were no scholarship rules to bend.

Starting in 1973 the total number of football scholarships was cut to 105.  By that time Nebraska had already won the first two of its five national championships, beating LSU in the 1971 Orange Bowl and absolutely stomping an 11-0 Alabama team in 1972.

We're going to have to come up with another excuse other than "ag scholarships" to explain their success in those seasons.

By the way, the scholarship limit went to 95 in 1978 and 85 in 1992.

[RazorPiggie]

How the hell was Nebraska ever good? They are in no man's land out there.

Also, Washington made the playoffs last year and their recruiting situation is worse than ours.

Don't really like saying this but they made the playoffs because they have a great coach. The state of Washington produces more players than the state of Arkansas. In 2017 15 players inside the state signed with a P5 team, in 2016 19 did, & 17 did in 2015. In that same time span the state of Arkansas produced 10-2017, 12-2016, & 12-2015.

Just think about where we would be if the state could produced another 5 recruits per class that were good enough to sign with P5 teams.

Over the last few years Washington has recruited about the same as us, around the 25-30 range.


Also factor in that Seattle is a major city that has direct flights all over the US. Whereas XNA only has direct flights to 14 destinations. (I'm factoring that in if I'm a parent of a recruit and my child is wanting to go out of state.)

[hogsanity]

Until 1973 college programs could offer as many football scholarships as they wanted.  Want to sign 80 per year and have 250 total?  No problem.  Everyone in the country could do it.  Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, LSU, everyone.  There was no need to try to bend the rules and put a player on some other kind of scholarship because there were no scholarship rules to bend.

Starting in 1973 the total number of football scholarships was cut to 105.  By that time Nebraska had already won the first two of its five national championships, beating LSU in the 1971 Orange Bowl and absolutely stomping an 11-0 Alabama team in 1972.

We're going to have to come up with another excuse other than "ag scholarships" to explain their success in those seasons.

By the way, the scholarship limit went to 95 in 1978 and 85 in 1992.

But they could put players on ag scholarship and it did not count against the limit. That whole process has been well documented.

But ok, they won 2 of their nc's in the early 70's, what does that have to do with today's college football?

[DeltaBoy]

Also a 250 mile radius from State College,PA shows a population base of just over 58 million. Whereas 250 mile radius from Fayettevilles population base is only 14.5 million.

http://www.statsamerica.org/radius/big.aspx

Yes we have way less to draw from.

[Deep Shoat]

Until 1973 college programs could offer as many football scholarships as they wanted.  Want to sign 80 per year and have 250 total?  No problem.  Everyone in the country could do it.  Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, LSU, everyone.  There was no need to try to bend the rules and put a player on some other kind of scholarship because there were no scholarship rules to bend.

Starting in 1973 the total number of football scholarships was cut to 105.  By that time Nebraska had already won the first two of its five national championships, beating LSU in the 1971 Orange Bowl and absolutely stomping an 11-0 Alabama team in 1972.

We're going to have to come up with another excuse other than "ag scholarships" to explain their success in those seasons.

By the way, the scholarship limit went to 95 in 1978 and 85 in 1992.

LOL @ '71 and '72

That was almost 50 years ago.  Nebraska ran an I based option offense that would literally be taken apart today.  Football has advanced so far beyond what they were doing it isn't funny.

[DeltaBoy]

LOL @ '71 and '72

That was almost 50 years ago.  Nebraska ran an I based option offense that would literally be taken apart today.  Football has advanced so far beyond what they were doing it isn't funny.

The Huskers also developed a Walk on program which allowed them to go out side of the state to get better talent and maximized their 105 limit.  If the Hogs had 30-50 non scholarship players who were D -1 talent and stayed home instead of going elsewhere we could be like the Huskers used to be.

[Atlhogfan1]

How the hell was Nebraska ever good? They are in no man's land out there.

Also, Washington made the playoffs last year and their recruiting situation is worse than ours.

Washington recruits very well RELATIVE TO ITS PAC12 COMPETITION.  Why does this keep getting ignored?  Penn St recruits well compared to its B1G competition.  We recruit well compared to most of college football.  But our direct competition - Bama, LSU, A&M and AU - can recruit #1 to 10 classes every year.  No other conference comes even close to this depth in recruiting.  Yet we want to ignore.

The Pac 12 has 1 program who consistently recruits on this level - USC.  USC has been a little down due to the NCAA sanctions.  No coincidence Oregon and now Washington stepped up in the void.  Even in Washington's playoff season last year, they were handled by SC.  The talent difference was obvious. 

[hogsanity]

The Huskers also developed a Walk on program which allowed them to go out side of the state to get better talent and maximized their 105 limit.  If the Hogs had 30-50 non scholarship players who were D -1 talent and stayed home instead of going elsewhere we could be like the Huskers used to be.

But their " walk on " program was aided for years by being allowed to put them on ag scholarships. They pretty much awarded one ag scholarship per county, amazingly to the best player in that county, and then they would feed them strengthen them, rs them, and they always had both lines full of 4th and 5th yr players because of that. Then they could go spend their actual football scholarships on players out of state.

[EastexHawg]

LOL @ '71 and '72

That was almost 50 years ago.  Nebraska ran an I based option offense that would literally be taken apart today.  Football has advanced so far beyond what they were doing it isn't funny.

What difference does it make?  They were playing teams from the same period.  Nebraska was still a sparsely populated state in the middle of nowhere.  The state's population was roughly 1.4 million...Arkansas' was 1.9 million.  Alabama's was almost 3.5 million and they had Bear Bryant. 

Are there really that many people on this site and elsewhere who believe everything is simply a matter of demographics, statistics, fate, or some other factor or force and that it doesn't often times simply come down to someone being talented, being good at something...maybe better than almost everyone?  Speaking of the Bear, he won a national championship at Kentucky, ending a long Bud Wilkinson/Oklahoma winning streak in the Sugar Bowl.  Does Kentucky have advantages, or was Bryant simply a great coach who won everywhere he went?

[NuttinItUp]

LOL @ '71 and '72

That was almost 50 years ago.  Nebraska ran an I based option offense that would literally be taken apart today.  Football has advanced so far beyond what they were doing it isn't funny.

When I originally mentioned Nebraska, I was talking about them being good in the mid to late 90s, not the early 70s.

1993: #3
1994: #1
1995: #1
1996: #6
1997: #1
1999: #2
2000: #7
2001: #7

[hogsanity]

What difference does it make?  They were playing teams from the same period.  Nebraska was still a sparsely populated state in the middle of nowhere.  The state's population was roughly 1.4 million...Arkansas' was 1.9 million.  Alabama's was almost 3.5 million and they had Bear Bryant. 

Are there really that many people on this site and elsewhere who believe everything is simply a matter of demographics, statistics, fate, or some other factor or force and that it doesn't often times simply come down to someone being talented, being good at something...maybe better than almost everyone?  Speaking of the Bear, he won a national championship at Kentucky, ending a long Bud Wilkinson/Oklahoma winning streak in the Sugar Bowl.  Does Kentucky have advantages, or was Bryant simply a great coach who won everywhere he went?

Cornell and Holy Cross once had good teams too, want to go back that far?

[oldhawg]

LOL @ '71 and '72

That was almost 50 years ago.  Nebraska ran an I based option offense that would literally be taken apart today.  Football has advanced so far beyond what they were doing it isn't funny.

Perhaps "changed" is a better word.  Not everyone believes the movement towards flag football is "advanced."

[Cinco de Hogo]

Perhaps "changed" is a better word.  Not everyone believes the movement towards flag football is "advanced."

Now a days the goal is getting playmakers in space because you can't tackle them, yes much different than back then.  Not advanced at all just rules.

[hogsanity]

Now a days the goal is getting playmakers in space because you can't tackle them, yes much different than back then.  Not advanced at all just rules.

Really? The rules prohibit tackling? I've got my 2017 rule book right here and I see no rules that prohibit tackling the ball carrier.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Really? The rules prohibit tackling? I've got my 2017 rule book right here and I see no rules that prohibit tackling the ball carrier.

That's the problem you've got the Bama rule book.

[EastexHawg]

Cornell and Holy Cross once had good teams too, want to go back that far?

You're a funny guy.  Both of those teams have played basically Ivy League level schedules for the last 75-80 years.  Holy Cross played Syracuse, hardly a national power most of the time, 20 times between 1950 and 1973.  Syracuse beat them 18 out of 20 and in the last 12 meetings Holy Cross averaged a little over 7 points per game, only twice getting out of single digits.  Holy Cross also played Penn State eight times between 1954 and 1962.  They lost all eight games with an average score of 36-7.

Meanwhile, Nebraska was going 9-0 against SEC teams in bowl games between 1971 and 1998, almost all of them major bowls or national championship games against top ten opponents, by a similar type of score...as in 40-15.

So yeah, I definitely see your point.

Who you wanna bring up next, Yale before the turn of the 20th Century?  They were a beast with Walter Camp and Pudge Heffelfinger.

[hogsanity]

You're a funny guy.  Both of those teams have played basically Ivy League level schedules for the last 75-80 years.  Holy Cross played Syracuse, hardly a national power most of the time, 20 times between 1950 and 1973.  Syracuse beat them 18 out of 20 and in the last 12 meetings Holy Cross averaged a little over 7 points per game, only twice getting out of single digits.  Holy Cross also played Penn State eight times between 1954 and 1962.  They lost all eight games with an average score of 36-7.

Meanwhile, Nebraska was going 9-0 against SEC teams in bowl games between 1971 and 1998, almost all of them major bowls or national championship games against top ten opponents, by a similar type of score...as in 40-15.

So yeah, I definitely see your point.

Who you wanna bring up next, Yale before the turn of the 20th Century?  They were a beast with Walter Camp and Pudge Heffelfinger.

My point is we can keep going back in time, but none of that relates to today's college football landscape.

[Peter Porker]

Really? The rules prohibit tackling? I've got my 2017 rule book right here and I see no rules that prohibit tackling the ball carrier.

Tommy Craft?

[ErieHog]

They've turned it around, and fast after a major scandal that should have crippled them for 10+ years.

We're still floundering from simply bad coaching hires.

They had their penalty essentially vacated, which is a huge help in the speed of the turn around.

And they're one of the premiere teams at getting east coast talent-- really, until Virginia Tech started mining the Maryland to New Jersey corridor, they pretty much got every big time player from Maryland and New Jersey they wanted, which had a ton of talent.

[HiggiePiggy]

Biggest thing for any school is coaching first.  Great coach can win you 9 to 11 games a year.  Now a great coach with great talent can win you championships

[hogsanity]

Biggest thing for any school is coaching first.  Great coach can win you 9 to 11 games a year.  Now a great coach with great talent can win you championships

So all a school has to do is hire a great coach? So All Idaho has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year? Really?

[NuttinItUp]

So all a school has to do is hire a great coach? So All Idaho has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year? Really?

Idaho plays in the Sun Belt. A great coach should be able to get 9 wins playing against mostly Sun Belt teams.

In fact, they got 9 wins last year, and I wouldn't count their current coach as "great" by any stretch, although his brother is pretty good.

[Al Boarland]

Biggest thing for any school is coaching first.  Great coach can win you 9 to 11 games a year.  Now a great coach with great talent can win you championships

What if said great coach is in a league with other great coaches that recruit more talent?  Everyone can't win 9 to 11 games.

[NuttinItUp]

What if said great coach is in a league with other great coaches that recruit more talent?  Everyone can't win 9 to 11 games.

I assume you are referring to the SEC? (or, more specifically, the SEC-West?)

[hogsanity]

Idaho plays in the Sun Belt. A great coach should be able to get 9 wins playing against mostly Sun Belt teams.

In fact, they got 9 wins last year, and I wouldn't count their current coach as "great" by any stretch, although his brother is pretty good.

you said a year, meaning every year. lets see if they do so every year.

But okay, lets make it more to the point. Are you saying all Vandy or KY or Tulane or FIU, or any other team in all of fbs has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year as long as said coach is there?

[Al Boarland]

I assume you are referring to the SEC? (or, more specifically, the SEC-West?)

I'm talking about in the fairy tale world where the guys that line up against your guys aren't bigger, stronger, faster and deeper.  In this world where you convince said great coach to leave a program to come to a place that can't compete on the recruiting trail, so he/she can continue to be a great coach.

[Pork Twain]

turning their programs around faster than us but Penn State is not one of them.  They almost had the death penalty thrown at them but here they are now one of the top teams in the country.   Pennsylvania turns out more Football recruits from Arkansas but don't they get most of their recruits from other states.


Come on CBB,  lets really step it up this year.  This is year 5.    Let start really be UNCOMMON.

I agree that this has to be the year for CBB, but the Penn St talk is silly.  They have a huge recruiting population and the have been a very good team in most of our lifetimes.

[Adam Stokes]

Agreed. And we can't say that he can do fine there but would not make it in the SEC since he proved himself at Vandy. Back when we were looking for a coach I said hiring James Franklin would be decision most fans would hate immediately but love in three years.

For real. I remember throwing his name out and people would just say, "He hasn't won any big games!" And I was like, "He's gone bowling back to back years at Vandy, with his last recruiting class within a few spots of ours." I was fine with Bielema, but didn't understand why Franklin wasn't good enough for us. Only problem with Franklin was that he would probably view it as a stepping-stone job, whereas I didn't feel that was going to be the case with Bret. No doubt we'd be recruiting around Top 15 with Franklin here.

[NuttinItUp]

you said a year, meaning every year. lets see if they do so every year.

But okay, lets make it more to the point. Are you saying all Vandy or KY or Tulane or FIU, or any other team in all of fbs has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year as long as said coach is there?

You are responding to the wrong person. I didn't say "a year", that was someone else. (HiggiePiggie to be exact.) I was just responding to the Idaho comment.

I will say that part of being a "great" coach is "great" recruiting. I definitely think a great coach at FIU could get them to 9 wins/year because they play such lousy competition. Same for Tulane. I think Kentucky and Vandy would have a tougher time being in the SEC, but not impossible since they are in the East. (If we are talking about truly great coaches, of which there are only a few.)

[hogsanity]

You are responding to the wrong person. I didn't say "a year", that was someone else. (HiggiePiggie to be exact.) I was just responding to the Idaho comment.

I will say that part of being a "great" coach is "great" recruiting. I definitely think a great coach at FIU could get them to 9 wins/year because they play such lousy competition. Same for Tulane. I think Kentucky and Vandy would have a tougher time being in the SEC, but not impossible since they are in the East. (If we are talking about truly great coaches, of which there are only a few.)

Ok, so a great coach is not all it takes to win 9-11 games each year then, it also takes playing lousy competition.

I agree that this has to be the year for CBB, but the Penn St talk is silly.  They have a huge recruiting population and the have been a very good team in most of our lifetimes.

So the Penn state talk is silly because they have a large recruiting base and have been good for most of our lifetimes, but this is the make or break year for a coach with a small recruiting base on a team that has not been more than average for most of our lifetimes?

[NuttinItUp]

Ok, so a great coach is not all it takes to win 9-11 games each year then, it also takes playing lousy competition.

Incorrect. Saban is a great coach and they play stellar competition.

[oldhawg]

So all a school has to do is hire a great coach? So All Idaho has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year? Really?

So all a school has to do is hire a great coach? So All Idaho has to do is hire a great coach and they will win 9-11 games a year? Really?

Check out Boise State (I'm sure you know the history).  They have done pretty well with good coaches.  Schools like that need very good coaching plus their favorable schedule to be consistently successful, but it can be done.  And the people of Idaho enjoy the Bronco's success.

Another example: Urban Meyer did very well his couple of years at Utah before moving to the big stage.

[EastexHawg]

I'm talking about in the fairy tale world where the guys that line up against your guys aren't bigger, stronger, faster and deeper.  In this world where you convince said great coach to leave a program to come to a place that can't compete on the recruiting trail, so he/she can continue to be a great coach.

If they were Sumo wrestling all those big guys would almost certainly win, but that's not what we are talking about.  Remember all the talk about us having the biggest offensive line in the world, probably in the galaxy?  How did we ever lose?

If coaching is off so little importance, why pay someone $4-8 million per year to do it?  If your fate is predetermined by location and demographics, couldn't you get the same results for a couple hundred thousand?

[hogsanity]

If they were Sumo wrestling all those big guys would almost certainly win, but that's not what we are talking about.  Remember all the talk about us having the biggest offensive line in the world, probably in the galaxy?  How did we ever lose?

If coaching is off so little importance, why pay someone $4-8 million per year to do it?  If your fate is predetermined by location and demographics, couldn't you get the same results for a couple hundred thousand?

Why do you always go to the extreme? No one said coaching is of little importance, but isnt it amazing that a guy like Saban was not great at MSu, but suddenly figured out how to coach when he got ot LSU with all their talent. Then goes to the nfl and is a bust, bust suddenly remembers how to coach again when he gets to Bama and has 3 teams worth of 3-5 star players within about 300 miles of campus.

[Al Boarland]

If they were Sumo wrestling all those big guys would almost certainly win, but that's not what we are talking about.  Remember all the talk about us having the biggest offensive line in the world, probably in the galaxy?  How did we ever lose?

If coaching is off so little importance, why pay someone $4-8 million per year to do it?  If your fate is predetermined by location and demographics, couldn't you get the same results for a couple hundred thousand?

The difference is we are typically an "or" team and the guys we finish behind are "and" teams. We can get big or strong or fast, but we don't land enough depth of big and strong and fast. When you can't do that every cycle you end up with teams that have some gap that prevents them from taking it to the next level.

[EastexHawg]

Isn't it equally amazing that LSU and Alabama, with all their talent and advantages, were piss poor football teams that got coaches fired before Saban arrived?  Juggernaut LSU was 4-7 and 3-8 in the two years before Saban got there in 2000.  Alabama was a combined 22-24 in the four years prior to Saban's arrival in 2007.

Saban took over a Michigan State program that was in shambles and under NCAA sanctions (scholarship reductions) and built them into a 10 win team that beat Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Florida four years later.  But keep knocking him.  It works so well.

[HiggiePiggy]

What if said great coach is in a league with other great coaches that recruit more talent?  Everyone can't win 9 to 11 games.

Not very often will that happen.  Usually there is 2 maybe 3 great coaches in a conference.  And yes great coaches are what makes programs

Why do you always go to the extreme? No one said coaching is of little importance, but isnt it amazing that a guy like Saban was not great at MSu, but suddenly figured out how to coach when he got ot LSU with all their talent. Then goes to the nfl and is a bust, bust suddenly remembers how to coach again when he gets to Bama and has 3 teams worth of 3-5 star players within about 300 miles of campus.

You don't know the history of Michigan state before Saban showed up there.  He eventually got them to respectable and then went to LSU.  Not every coach is good for the pros.  The way Saban is and how he has to be in control of everything and have his players fear him is why he is best for college. He can't use fear on his players in the NFL. They would laugh at him and watch him get fired. He is perfect for college. 

[Pork Twain]

Ok, so a great coach is not all it takes to win 9-11 games each year then, it also takes playing lousy competition.

So the Penn state talk is silly because they have a large recruiting base and have been good for most of our lifetimes, but this is the make or break year for a coach with a small recruiting base on a team that has not been more than average for most of our lifetimes?

Try to include the context of the post I was replying to in your halfass flaming.

[LZH]

Don't really like saying this but they made the playoffs because they have a great coach. The state of Washington produces more players than the state of Arkansas. In 2017 15 players inside the state signed with a P5 team, in 2016 19 did, & 17 did in 2015. In that same time span the state of Arkansas produced 10-2017, 12-2016, & 12-2015.

Just think about where we would be if the state could produced another 5 recruits per class that were good enough to sign with P5 teams.

Over the last few years Washington has recruited about the same as us, around the 25-30 range.


Also factor in that Seattle is a major city that has direct flights all over the US. Whereas XNA only has direct flights to 14 destinations. (I'm factoring that in if I'm a parent of a recruit and my child is wanting to go out of state.)

Most people seem to forget that if the Little Rock School System and surrounding area's athletic programs didn't implode over the last 30 years those extra 5 - 8 players would be on our roster. That map you posted earlier, maybe the Little Rock area would be a little more orange.

[ErieHog]

We are closer to a lot of better hotspots (Dallas, Houston, Louisiana) than Washington is to Cali.

Just saw this.  Its worth remembering that the amount of competition for players also matters- there are only 26 college football teams in MST or PST; 47 reside in CST.     Less competition and relative closeness to home vis-a-vis Central US and Eastern US programs also contributes--- they might be twice as far away as Dallas, but still three times nearer than other options would be for that student athlete.