How many people thought that TAMU joining the SEC wouldn't hurt Arkansas?

[nwahogfan1]

I agree with Muskogee and others who say A&M has been recruiting better than us for a long time.  But they are very beatable and we have to come up with a good game plan to do that.  no excuses.  .   Seems the last few years  A&M will pull a rabbit out of their hat to beat us then seem to fizzle in the 2nd half of the season quite a bit.  Is that coaching or lack of depth?   What ever it is we have to fix it and beat these guys 50% of the time.

I think we are signing 5-10 players a year who are SEC type players and hoping the other signees will develop.  Well its been 5 years now for CBB and his recruiting strategy to show what they have. 

We need 8+ wins this year and a win over A&M/

Go HOGS

[Piggfoot]

I wonder how we managed to kick their butt for so many years. 

This may have something to do with it.
http://today.tamu.edu/2013/08/27/texas-am-to-commemorate-50th-anniversary-of-admission-of-women-minority-inclusiveness/

[bphi11ips]

Actually, it hasn't hurt us. They were recruiting better than Arkansas before they joined the SEC. I think that having a game with them in Jerry-World each year has helped our exposure to Texas based recruits. If A&M joining the SEC has hurt anyone, it has probably hurt the Longhorns more than Arkansas.

This. 

There are three rules that determine potential success for a college football program - location, location, location.  Texas A&M is right in the middle of 20,000,000 people within a 3 hour drive.  In the heart of high school football country.  For example, 45,000 watched Vince Young play for the state championship.

A&M has no trouble filling all 102, 512 seats in Kyle Stadium.  I like not playing there.  Arkansas recruits have to like knowing they'll get to play in Jerry's World once a year.  The Hogs have a huge fanbase in Dallas and can and do bring about as many fans as A&M.  Fayetteville has been drawing students and athletes from Dallas for 60 years.  The Southwest Classic (now an irony) is good for business and the football program. 

Florida and Georgia have played in Jacksonville since 1933.  Georgia still leads the series in spite of Florida's 18-3 advantage during the Spurrier/Myer years. 

Texas and Oklahoma have played in Dallas every year but once since 1914.  Texas leads the series there 49-40-5.  OU makes a living in Dallas. 

It's easy to see why the media loves A&M.  They have the resources and location to be a blue blood.  All they lack is the tradition.  And they don't seem to be getting much better.  Now the road runs through Alabama and the SEC West.

I not scare of A&M. 

[LZH]

I have said for years that A&M is just the right coach away from competing with Alabama in the West. They may have the most resources in the conference. Frankly, I thought Sumlin was the man. Apparently that is not the case.

Let the right coach land there and LSU & Auburn will pushed aside.

[HamSammich]

How exactly has TAMU joining helped us in any way?!

Do you guys all think that the extra loss we get each year is good?

Forget recruiting.... the schedule was already stupid and now its worse. Hell we are not even beating our new "rivals" , Missouri. How was Missouri being added helped us?

[EastexHawg]

How exactly has TAMU joining helped us in any way?!

Do you guys all think that the extra loss we get each year is good?

Forget recruiting.... the schedule was already stupid and now its worse. Hell we are not even beating our new "rivals" , Missouri. How was Missouri being added helped us?

We were already playing A&M.  We played and beat them in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  Before that, as in years before that, we played A&M every year and beat them regularly...to the tune of 24 wins and 10 losses between 1958 and 1991.

It's not like the SEC added Ohio State or USC to the conference.  Maybe, just maybe, we need to look past "they joined the SEC" to figure out why a team we used to beat regularly is suddenly beating us.  Maybe take a look at Mississippi State, Rutgers, Toledo, and another team we used to own, Texas Tech, for clues.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We were already playing A&M.  We played and beat them in 2009, 2010, and 2011.  Before that, as in years before that, we played A&M every year and beat them regularly...to the tune of 24 wins and 10 losses between 1958 and 1991.

It's not like the SEC added Ohio State or USC to the conference.  Maybe, just maybe, we need to look past "they joined the SEC" to figure out why a team we used to beat regularly is suddenly beating us.  Maybe take a look at Mississippi State, Rutgers, Toledo, and another team we used to own, Texas Tech, for clues.

Maybe the difference was getting rid of Mike Sherman as their HC and the hiring of Kevin Sumlin?

               Ark         A&M
2009         47           19  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2010         24           17  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2011         42           38  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2012         10           58  (John L. Smith vs. Sumlin)
2013         33           45  (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2014         28           35 (1-OT) (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2015         21           28 (1-OT) (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2016         24           45  (Bielema vs. Sumlin)

After the first year against Sherman, we barely beat them. JLS was just embarrassing. Sumlin really ramped up their offense. The first year of Bielema was clearly just getting the team reorganized. This past year was clearly all about our lack of defensive scheming, for the most part.

[Iwastherein1969]

Maybe the difference was getting rid of Mike Sherman as their HC and the hiring of Kevin Sumlin?

               Ark         A&M
2009         47           19  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2010         24           17  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2011         42           38  (Petrino vs. Sherman)
2012         10           58  (John L. Smith vs. Sumlin)
2013         33           45  (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2014         28           35 (1-OT) (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2015         21           28 (1-OT) (Bielema vs. Sumlin)
2016         24           45  (Bielema vs. Sumlin)

After the first year against Sherman, we barely beat them. JLS was just embarrassing. Sumlin really ramped up their offense. The first year of Bielema was clearly just getting the team reorganized. This past year was clearly all about our lack of defensive scheming, for the most part.

2014 and 2015 we clearly outplayed Aggy no matter how much love you show for Kevin Sumlin....that goggle-eyed fool is about to be shipped out of College Station because his team hasn't won the SEC West nor even come close since Manziel left....UT is about to get back on track with their new coach and well, Aggy will be back to being the little brother to the Longhorns that they've always been....Aggy rode the SEC WAVE as long as they could, but as with every wave eventually it crashes against the shoreline....time for the crash to begin

[MuskogeeHogFan]

2014 and 2015 we clearly outplayed Aggy no matter how much love you show for Kevin Sumlin....that goggle-eyed fool is about to be shipped out of College Station because his team hasn't won the SEC West nor even come close since Manziel left....UT is about to get back on track with their new coach and well, Aggy will be back to being the little brother to the Longhorns that they've always been....Aggy rode the SEC WAVE as long as they could, but as with every wave eventually it crashes against the shoreline....time for the crash to begin

Sumlin has clearly underachieved at A&M given the recruiting classes that he has had. He could have helped A&M solidify their position in Texas while the Longhorns were down, but he didn't. I think that is why they are pissed at him. He's really squandered a great opportunity. I agree that Herman will most likely bring Texas back to winning at a higher level. Unless Sumlin pulls out 10 wins this year, he may be gone.

[bphi11ips]

I have said for years that A&M is just the right coach away from competing with Alabama in the West. They may have the most resources in the conference. Frankly, I thought Sumlin was the man. Apparently that is not the case.

Let the right coach land there and LSU & Auburn will pushed aside.

A&M was a distant third to Arkansas in the SWC and didn't do well in the Big 12.  Bear Bryant's record at Kentucky was 60-23-5.  Between Kentucky and Alabama he was  25-14-2 in 4 years at A&M.

In spite of media perception and built in advantages, nothing in A&M's past suggests it is a better football program than Arkansas. Maybe that is changing, maybe not.

[GuvHog]

We used to play LSU in a nationally appealing game Friday after Thanksgiving. Who has that game now?

Arkansas still plays on the Friday after Thanksgiving. LSU and A&M play on Thanksgiving Day.

[GuvHog]

2014 and 2015 we clearly outplayed Aggy no matter how much love you show for Kevin Sumlin....that goggle-eyed fool is about to be shipped out of College Station because his team hasn't won the SEC West nor even come close since Manziel left....UT is about to get back on track with their new coach and well, Aggy will be back to being the little brother to the Longhorns that they've always been....Aggy rode the SEC WAVE as long as they could, but as with every wave eventually it crashes against the shoreline....time for the crash to begin

As long as the Longhorns stay in the Big 12, the Aggies will always out recruit them. The Longhorns knew the Aggies would pass them in recruiting when they joined the SEC. That's why the Longhorns tried so hard to keep the Aggies from joining.

[bennyl08]

Actually, it hasn't hurt us. They were recruiting better than Arkansas before they joined the SEC. I think that having a game with them in Jerry-World each year has helped our exposure to Texas based recruits. If A&M joining the SEC has hurt anyone, it has probably hurt the Longhorns more than Arkansas.

From 2009 to present, the number of Texas players has dropped.

09-12, we had between 24-30 players from Texas on our roster.

13-17, we've had between 14 and I think 21 players.

In large part, I believe that is due to our ability to recruit better and more nationally. Texas produces a lot of D1 talent, but relative to their size, not a whole lot of NFL talent.

[hobhog]

Arkansas still plays on the Friday after Thanksgiving. LSU and A&M play on Thanksgiving Day.

Point was we got hosed by SEC to accommodate A&M with a better TV game and exposure. We get relegated to a Mizzou game we obviously cant get excited about.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

From 2009 to present, the number of Texas players has dropped.

09-12, we had between 24-30 players from Texas on our roster.

13-17, we've had between 14 and I think 21 players.

In large part, I believe that is due to our ability to recruit better and more nationally. Texas produces a lot of D1 talent, but relative to their size, not a whole lot of NFL talent.

Here's an example of that from our recruits from these key states:

        2002-2006        2007-2011          2012-2016
ALA         3                     6                       2
GEO        9                     8                       6
JC/Prep   10                   17                     19
LA           3                    9                      10
FLA         2                    10                     15
TEX        33                   30                     24
MISS       0                     0                       2
MIZZ       1                     5                       6
CAL         2                     2                       2
TENN       3                     3                       2
OKLA       2                    13                      5

[Science Fiction Greg]

How exactly has TAMU joining helped us in any way?!

Strawman.  The claim was that A&M joining the SEC would hurt Arkansas, not that it would help Arkansas.

Do you guys all think that the extra loss we get each year is good?

Texas A&M was already on our schedule every year.

Forget recruiting.... the schedule was already stupid and now its worse. Hell we are not even beating our new "rivals" , Missouri. How was Missouri being added helped us?

Again, we were already playing A&M every year.

[GuvHog]

Point was we got hosed by SEC to accommodate A&M with a better TV game and exposure. We get relegated to a Mizzou game we obviously cant get excited about.

The only thing that changed is the opponent. The Hogs still play on the Friday after Thanksgiving at 1:00 PM on CBS nation wide and are the only game in that time slot.

[EastexHawg]

The only thing that changed is the opponent. The Hogs still play on the Friday after Thanksgiving at 1:00 PM on CBS nation wide and are the only game in that time slot.

There may be 43 people outside the states of Arkansas and Missouri who care about that game.  Let's face it, for the rest of the country it's a snoozer...especially when there are no division or conference championship implications.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

There may be 43 people outside the states of Arkansas and Missouri who care about that game.  Let's face it, for the rest of the country it's a snoozer...especially when there are no division or conference championship implications.

Apparently 2.5 million people tuned in to watch that game last season so I guess that includes your "43".

LSU-A&M only drew 2.8 million as the lone CFB game on Thanksgiving Day.

[EastexHawg]

Apparently 2.5 million people tuned in to watch that game last season so I guess that includes your "43".

LSU-A&M only drew 2.8 million as the lone CFB game on Thanksgiving Day.

The 43 was obviously hyperbole.

How many of those 2.5 million lived in Arkansas or Missouri?

[ricepig]

The 43 was obviously hyperbole.

How many of those 2.5 million lived in Arkansas or Missouri?

How many of the LSU-aTm 2.8m lived in Texass or Louisiana?

[EastexHawg]

How many of the LSU-aTm 2.8m lived in Texass or Louisiana?

Is it your argument that there are lots of people across the U.S. who make it a point to tune into the Arkansas vs. Missouri game?  The Texas A&M-LSU game was played on one of the two biggest family holidays of the year.  We played the day after.

I can't find TV ratings for when we played LSU and both of us were good (2010, 2011, for instance).  I did see that 8.4 million watched us play Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl and 13.3 million saw us play Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl.  Those games weren't played on Thanksgiving weekend, I only mention them to give 2.5 million some perspective.

[Wildhog]

Of course TAMU joining the SEC hurt Arkansas. 

[ricepig]

Is it your argument that there are lots of people across the U.S. who make it a point to tune into the Arkansas vs. Missouri game?  The Texas A&M-LSU game was played on one of the two biggest family holidays of the year.  We played the day after.

I can't find TV ratings for when we played LSU and both of us were good (2010, 2011, for instance).  I did see that 8.4 million watched us play Kansas State in the Cotton Bowl and 13.3 million saw us play Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl.  Those games weren't played on Thanksgiving weekend, I only mention them to give 2.5 million some perspective.

Just pointing out that there wasn't much difference between the two games, obviously there wasn't too many watching either. We had competition in the same time slot, while aTm/LSU didn't. Of course, there was the NFL.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

[hobhog]

The only thing that changed is the opponent. The Hogs still play on the Friday after Thanksgiving at 1:00 PM on CBS nation wide and are the only game in that time slot.

swing and another miss.......

[Vantage 8 dude]

Well I knew for sure it wasn't going to help us. Wasn't certain the true impact it would have on Texas recruiting, although you figured common sense would tell you wouldn't be beneficial for US. It also hasn't helped that being the first (or one of) the first conference games we've managed to figure a way to blow leads and lose to start our conference run. All-in-all for the Hogs it's been a lose-lose situation.

[SamBuckhart]

I said it would hurt us more than help. Our one advantage we had over them with Texas kids was playing in the SEC.

Agree

[bphi11ips]

Of course TAMU joining the SEC hurt Arkansas. 

Well alrighty, then . . .!!!

[HamSammich]

Of course TAMU joining the SEC hurt Arkansas.

Anyone that thinks differently is in dead dog de Nile.

[Wildhog]

Well alrighty, then . . .!!!

I have no idea how this thread made it to page 2.

[ricepig]

I have no idea how this thread made it to page 2.

Guv entered it......

[HamSammich]

I have no idea how this thread made it to page 2.

Two of us....



But actually it's the people that keep me coming here and reading. So I guess I can believe it.... sort of.

[bennyl08]

Of course TAMU joining the SEC hurt Arkansas.

What's your definition of "hurt"? We talking relatively or directly?

Our recruiting has increased. Our NFL talent has increased. Hard to say that we as a team have been hurt.

Their recruiting has increased more and their NFL talent has increased more. Thus, relative to them, we are worse off. However, that's like saying having Arnold and The Rock work out at the same gym has hurt you despite you adding 10 more pounds to your PR's.

[bphi11ips]

What's your definition of "hurt"? We talking relatively or directly?

Our recruiting has increased. Our NFL talent has increased. Hard to say that we as a team have been hurt.

Their recruiting has increased more and their NFL talent has increased more. Thus, relative to them, we are worse off. However, that's like saying having Arnold and The Rock work out at the same gym has hurt you despite you adding 10 more pounds to your PR's.

Hurt = gut feeling a/k/a indigestion

[Wildhog]

What's your definition of "hurt"? We talking relatively or directly?

Our recruiting has increased. Our NFL talent has increased. Hard to say that we as a team have been hurt.

Their recruiting has increased more and their NFL talent has increased more. Thus, relative to them, we are worse off. However, that's like saying having Arnold and The Rock work out at the same gym has hurt you despite you adding 10 more pounds to your PR's.

We lost a competitive advantage in recruiting.  Before A&M joined the SEC, we were a better draw for Texas recruits because we're close.  It's been more of a negative than a positive. 

[HiggiePiggy]

It hurt in the fact that we are now behind one more team in the west in recruiting.

Overall we have hurt ourself the most, but brining a Texas team into the SEC turns the top talent in Texas that was interested in the sec now stays in Texas instead of going to a sec team out of state. 

[Wildhog]

It hurt in the fact that we are now behind one more team in the west in recruiting.

Overall we have hurt ourself the most, but brining a Texas team into the SEC turns the top talent in Texas that was interested in the sec now stays in Texas instead of going to a sec team out of state. 

I mean, there's not an argument that it's good for us.  There are several arguments that it's bad for us, no matter how it's spun.

[HiggiePiggy]

I mean, there's not an argument that it's good for us.  There are several arguments that it's bad for us, no matter how it's spun.

Oh I agree I wasn't one of those people saying it was a great idea. 

[bennyl08]

We lost a competitive advantage in recruiting.  Before A&M joined the SEC, we were a better draw for Texas recruits because we're close.  It's been more of a negative than a positive.

We gained the competitive advantage of Texas recruits getting to come to arkansas still play in a conference game at home and likely have more games from the hogs on tv sets back home with the SEC network becoming more prevalent in Texas.

We've had Whaley and Calloway come to Arkansas from Texas as 4* players post Aggies coming to the SEC. We had JWill commit to Arkansas the year that the Aggies switched. We had Knile Davis and Cam Feldt (who never made it to campus) from Texas before the aggies joined.

I'm not really seeing any negative impact on our ability to recruit top players in Texas in the actual results. Maybe we would have had 5 4* players from texas in the past several years had it not been for the aggies. However, the only change in Texas recruiting appears to be a paradigm shift from getting some of the scraps from Texas and instead being pickier in Texas and pulling more players from LA, FLA, and GA.

I mean, I completely agree that in theory, it should have hurt our Texas recruiting more than help. However, in reality, it just doesn't seem to have played out at all.

[Wildhog]

We gained the competitive advantage of Texas recruits getting to come to arkansas still play in a conference game at home and likely have more games from the hogs on tv sets back home with the SEC network becoming more prevalent in Texas.

We've had Whaley and Calloway come to Arkansas from Texas as 4* players post Aggies coming to the SEC. We had JWill commit to Arkansas the year that the Aggies switched. We had Knile Davis and Cam Feldt (who never made it to campus) from Texas before the aggies joined.

I'm not really seeing any negative impact on our ability to recruit top players in Texas in the actual results. Maybe we would have had 5 4* players from texas in the past several years had it not been for the aggies. However, the only change in Texas recruiting appears to be a paradigm shift from getting some of the scraps from Texas and instead being pickier in Texas and pulling more players from LA, FLA, and GA.

I mean, I completely agree that in theory, it should have hurt our Texas recruiting more than help. However, in reality, it just doesn't seem to have played out at all.

Our recruiting footprint in Texas isn't close to what it used to be. 

You could offer alternative explanations, and they'd likely have a lot of truth to them, but "We're recruiting Texas better than ever" just isn't based in reality.

[hog.goblin]

Here's an example of that from our recruits from these key states:

        2002-2006        2007-2011          2012-2016
ALA         3                     6                       2
GEO        9                     8                       6
JC/Prep   10                   17                     19
LA           3                    9                      10
FLA         2                    10                     15
TEX        33                   30                     24
MISS       0                     0                       2
MIZZ       1                     5                       6
CAL         2                     2                       2
TENN       3                     3                       2
OKLA       2                    13                      5

So 9 less from TX and 13 more from FL.  I'll take it.

[Wildhog]

So 9 less from TX and 13 more from FL.  I'll take it.

I do agree with this.  FL > TX

[bennyl08]

Our recruiting footprint in Texas isn't close to what it used to be. 

You could offer alternative explanations, and they'd likely have a lot of truth to them, but "We're recruiting Texas better than ever" just isn't based in reality.

Whats with the strawman of "we're recruiting texas better than ever"? Has anybody said that?

I've counted exactly how many people from texas were on our roster from 2009 to present and presented the results (the website I found only went back to 2009). We definitely have fewer players from texas total.

However, in terms of highly rated guys from Texas, we are doing not better, but not any worse in Texas as we have done previously. I've posted in previous threads how our number of draftees is going up so clearly we aren't hurting for talent and have improved. Our coaches have made a concentrated effort to recruit the likes of Fla, GA, and LA more and that is going to have to come at the expense of players elsewhere (largely Okla and Tex).

While we have definitely been hurt by the aggies in the SEC in a relative sense, I don't see any evidence that we have been hurt directly. You haven't provided any arguments that we have been hurt directly or evidence to back those arguments up.

[HiggiePiggy]

Just looking off rivals from 2007 to 2011 they averaged

2007 2.89
2008 3.17
2009 3.14
2010 3.29
2011 2.95.

Then joined the SEC.
2012 3.42
2013 3.45
2014 3.71
2015 3.27
2016 3.48
2017 3.39


So before joining they were recruiting on par with us. After joining they are ahead of us every year and most of the time it's by a lot.

[Wildhog]

Whats with the strawman of "we're recruiting texas better than ever"? Has anybody said that?

I've counted exactly how many people from texas were on our roster from 2009 to present and presented the results (the website I found only went back to 2009). We definitely have fewer players from texas total.

However, in terms of highly rated guys from Texas, we are doing not better, but not any worse in Texas as we have done previously. I've posted in previous threads how our number of draftees is going up so clearly we aren't hurting for talent and have improved. Our coaches have made a concentrated effort to recruit the likes of Fla, GA, and LA more and that is going to have to come at the expense of players elsewhere (largely Okla and Tex).

While we have definitely been hurt by the aggies in the SEC in a relative sense, I don't see any evidence that we have been hurt directly. You haven't provided any arguments that we have been hurt directly or evidence to back those arguments up.

 

It's all relative.  Everything we do in this conference is relative.  And like you just said, we've definitely been hurt by the Aggies.

[TNRazorbacker]

I had hoped A&M joining the SEC would increase general SEC exposure in TX and create some inroads for AR to exploit. AR used to recruit Texas hard back in the old SWC days with a similar dynamic.

[Letsroll1200]

More excuses!!

[LZH]

When the Longhorns become relevant again, we are going to have to work our ass off down in that neck of the woods.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I had hoped A&M joining the SEC would increase general SEC exposure in TX and create some inroads for AR to exploit. AR used to recruit Texas hard back in the old SWC days with a similar dynamic.

They have replaced a lot of the previous Texas recruits with Florida, La. and JC recruits. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[Hoggish1]

I think it's definitely hurt us as Texas kids can play in the SEC and stay home instead of going elsewhere like Arkansas. 

Ding, ding, DING!