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Where to Recruit

Started by maggiesue, July 25, 2017, 11:17:11 pm

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HamSammich

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 08:31:43 pm
Sorry, I don't get what you are saying.

List is out of proportion. We have literally four times the population of arkansas. Our kids that end up settling for UH and SMU and rice are SEC quality players but arkansas barely recruits here.


Divide population of each state with p5 recruits then divide by number arkansas has on team. Results would be staggering. Recruiting isn't that hard as the stat will show outside of Arkansas.

hogsanity

Quote from: Al Boarland on July 26, 2017, 04:27:48 pm
If we can't take that title from the KSU program we sure as heck won't be taking any HS recruits from the big boys.

doesnt the sec or UofA have some rules that make many juco guys hard to get admitted to school?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on July 26, 2017, 09:54:28 pm
doesnt the sec or UofA have some rules that make many juco guys hard to get admitted to school?

SEC requires an extra math class I believe.  Something like that. 
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

snoblind

The loophole Nebraska used was Ag scholarships.  They were not bringing kids in as walk ons, but on full academic ride.  Didn't have to switch them over to football scholly until they actually got on the field.  NCAA closed that loophole some years back. 

Hog64

I would recruit mn ne nd sd wy co ut tougher kids in winter to plY  football    That's where I would start firstt then head east tenn NGa get the rest of the fleet fast team throw in wbygod vawjst do you hog fans think 
   Throw in penn parts of oh hog fan till I die good or bad

Rzbakfromwaybak


Easy choice,Texas.  Has more major college recruits than any state, has very good high school programs.....& it's next door.
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.

Mike_e

It doesn't matter how much time and money you spend fishing, if you aren't fishing where the fish are you ain't catching much.  Sure there are a few that just wander off from home but mostly they stay home.

What ya'll are missing is marketing.  Where should we be marketing and how.  Kids grow up with one brand or another and tend to stick with whatever that is.

Our recruiting base is whatever our student body base is.  If we are pulling a good number of kids from the Dallas/Fort Worth area then that is part of our base.  If we want to be getting more kids out of Houston then we need to be getting more students from huston.

Sure there are outliers that will go off on their own to play but those are fewer in number and as we've seen the competition for them is high. (see above)  The true elite in football  are the teams whose schools have a large to nationwide draw for their students.

For Arkansas to take that next step we are going to have to become perceived as a serious regional draw (and not just D/FW) for students.  And then the next step obviously would be to become a national draw.

If you look closely I think that you will see that this is already being done ie the uncommon tagline.  The AD and HC do seem to be working with the rest of the school to expand to be a regional power in the 'world of universities'.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: HamSammich on July 26, 2017, 09:28:25 pm
List is out of proportion. We have literally four times the population of arkansas. Our kids that end up settling for UH and SMU and rice are SEC quality players but arkansas barely recruits here.


Divide population of each state with p5 recruits then divide by number arkansas has on team. Results would be staggering. Recruiting isn't that hard as the stat will show outside of Arkansas.

The list I provided was merely where our signees have come from since 2013. That's it. If you would like to do all that work, be my guest.
Go Hogs Go!

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Mike_e on July 27, 2017, 06:02:17 am
It doesn't matter how much time and money you spend fishing, if you aren't fishing where the fish are you ain't catching much.  Sure there are a few that just wander off from home but mostly they stay home.

What ya'll are missing is marketing.  Where should we be marketing and how.  Kids grow up with one brand or another and tend to stick with whatever that is.

Our recruiting base is whatever our student body base is.  If we are pulling a good number of kids from the Dallas/Fort Worth area then that is part of our base.  If we want to be getting more kids out of Houston then we need to be getting more students from huston.

Sure there are outliers that will go off on their own to play but those are fewer in number and as we've seen the competition for them is high. (see above)  The true elite in football  are the teams whose schools have a large to nationwide draw for their students.

For Arkansas to take that next step we are going to have to become perceived as a serious regional draw (and not just D/FW) for students.  And then the next step obviously would be to become a national draw.

If you look closely I think that you will see that this is already being done ie the uncommon tagline.  The AD and HC do seem to be working with the rest of the school to expand to be a regional power in the 'world of universities'.
Excellent post.
All Gas, No Brakes!

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: Mike_e on July 27, 2017, 06:02:17 am
It doesn't matter how much time and money you spend fishing, if you aren't fishing where the fish are you ain't catching much.  Sure there are a few that just wander off from home but mostly they stay home.

What ya'll are missing is marketing.  Where should we be marketing and how.  Kids grow up with one brand or another and tend to stick with whatever that is.

Our recruiting base is whatever our student body base is.  If we are pulling a good number of kids from the Dallas/Fort Worth area then that is part of our base.  If we want to be getting more kids out of Houston then we need to be getting more students from huston.

Sure there are outliers that will go off on their own to play but those are fewer in number and as we've seen the competition for them is high. (see above)  The true elite in football  are the teams whose schools have a large to nationwide draw for their students.

For Arkansas to take that next step we are going to have to become perceived as a serious regional draw (and not just D/FW) for students.  And then the next step obviously would be to become a national draw.

If you look closely I think that you will see that this is already being done ie the uncommon tagline.  The AD and HC do seem to be working with the rest of the school to expand to be a regional power in the 'world of universities'.

I think this is spot on. When you look at where we draw students from, where our alumni live, and where we play most of our games, it's the surrounding states. This has to be our "home turf" when we live in a small state. Texas and Louisiana are definitely where the most talent is, but Oklahoma, Missouri, Mississippi, and West Tennessee are also areas we should be able to recruit with a higher degree of success than some of the more far-flung states due to proximity and the fact that UA has made an effort to draw students from those states in general with offers of in-state tuition. I think alumni matters too. Arkansas alum don't live in Atlanta and Birmingham in large numbers. They live in DFW, KC, Tulsa, St. Louis, Shreveport, Houston. Having a presence in those places matters I believe. That's not to say we shouldn't recruit FL-GA-AL, just that it will take much greater effort to get them here.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on July 27, 2017, 12:15:44 pm
I think this is spot on. When you look at where we draw students from, where our alumni live, and where we play most of our games, it's the surrounding states. This has to be our "home turf" when we live in a small state. Texas and Louisiana are definitely where the most talent is, but Oklahoma, Missouri, Mississippi, and West Tennessee are also areas we should be able to recruit with a higher degree of success than some of the more far-flung states due to proximity and the fact that UA has made an effort to draw students from those states in general with offers of in-state tuition. I think alumni matters too. Arkansas alum don't live in Atlanta and Birmingham in large numbers. They live in DFW, KC, Tulsa, St. Louis, Shreveport, Houston. Having a presence in those places matters I believe. That's not to say we shouldn't recruit FL-GA-AL, just that it will take much greater effort to get them here.

We aren't doing as much in Tennessee as we might be able to do, but we are certainly making some inroads into other states.

Bielema's classes from 2013-2017 here are the states from which we signed our players (total of 121).

AR-33 (27.3%)
FL-17 (14.0%)
TX-15 (12.4%)
LA-12 (9.9%)
CA-8 (6.6%)
GA-6 (5.0%)
KS-6 (5.0%)
MO-5 (4.1%)
OK-4 (3.3%)
MS-4 (3.3%)
IA-2 (1.7%)
AZ-2 (1.7%)
MN-1 (0.8%)
NJ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1 (0.8%)
HI-1 (0.8%)
IL-1 (0.8%)
TN-1 (0.8%)
AL-1 (0.8%)

I'd say our staff is covering a lot of ground.
Go Hogs Go!

AirWarren

Tons of talent in Ohio as well. You have to compete with the buckeye folks, but I'm sure there is some talent there.

hogsanity

Quote from: AP85 on July 27, 2017, 12:39:58 pm
Tons of talent in Ohio as well. You have to compete with the buckeye folks, but I'm sure there is some talent there.

Recruiting Ohio is like recruiting Texas. They have several in state school, including one behemoth, and then everyone else is in there recruiting too.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 27, 2017, 12:22:51 pm
We aren't doing as much in Tennessee as we might be able to do, but we are certainly making some inroads into other states.

Bielema's classes from 2013-2017 here are the states from which we signed our players (total of 121).

AR-33 (27.3%)
FL-17 (14.0%)
TX-15 (12.4%)
LA-12 (9.9%)
CA-8 (6.6%)
GA-6 (5.0%)
KS-6 (5.0%)
MO-5 (4.1%)
OK-4 (3.3%)
MS-4 (3.3%)
IA-2 (1.7%)
AZ-2 (1.7%)
MN-1 (0.8%)
NJ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1 (0.8%)
HI-1 (0.8%)
IL-1 (0.8%)
TN-1 (0.8%)
AL-1 (0.8%)

I'd say our staff is covering a lot of ground.

Yeah I'd like to see us get more out of Memphis. On our current roster we have more from LA and TX than FL. The FL kids haven't been sticking. Most of the CA and KS kids have been JC transfers not necessarily from CA and KS. Alabama is almost a waste of effort unless we've got a kid who's taken the initiative to come to one of our camps. There's enough talent there for Bama and Auburn, and not a whole lot more. But it is where we got Trey Flowers and Darius Philon.

I'll throw this out there too. I think the "kids want to play in the SEC" is overblown. I think the kids outside the SEC footprint who want to leave home may prefer to play in the SEC, but mostly kids want to play close to home so family can come visit and watch them play. The ones who live inside the SEC footprint and didn't get an offer from the home state team are more likely to stay in the SEC if they get a chance. Our Missouri recruiting has had a definite uptick since Mizzou came into the league.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on July 27, 2017, 12:51:36 pm
Yeah I'd like to see us get more out of Memphis. On our current roster we have more from LA and TX than FL. The FL kids haven't been sticking. Most of the CA and KS kids have been JC transfers not necessarily from CA and KS. Alabama is almost a waste of effort unless we've got a kid who's taken the initiative to come to one of our camps. There's enough talent there for Bama and Auburn, and not a whole lot more. But it is where we got Trey Flowers and Darius Philon.

I'll throw this out there too. I think the "kids want to play in the SEC" is overblown. I think the kids outside the SEC footprint who want to leave home may prefer to play in the SEC, but mostly kids want to play close to home so family can come visit and watch them play. The ones who live inside the SEC footprint and didn't get an offer from the home state team are more likely to stay in the SEC if they get a chance. Our Missouri recruiting has had a definite uptick since Mizzou came into the league.

From a recruiting standpoint I think that this staff is doing pretty good. Could they do better? Well of course.

That said, here is how it breaks down:

Recruits from states touching Arkansas (incl Ark):         71-61.2%
Recruits from SEC States (other than touching):           24-19.8%
Recruits from other states outside SEC (not touching):  23-19.0%

And I might agree with you about kids not having a preference for playing in the SEC if I hadn't read their comments several times where they specifically mentioned how important it was to them to receive an offer from an SEC school and have an opportunity to play in this conference. Of course there are always those who are going to prefer to stay closer to home and Mom and Dad/Family/Friends, but how that all breaks out and which seems to be more important, is probably difficult to say with any degree of accuracy.
Go Hogs Go!

slowride

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 06:45:32 pm
For Bielema's classes from 2013-2017 here are the states from which we signed our players (total of 121).

AR-33 (27.3%)
FL-17 (14.0%)
TX-15 (12.4%)
LA-12 (9.9%)
CA-8 (6.6%)
GA-6 (5.0%)
KS-6 (5.0%)
MO-5 (4.1%)
OK-4 (3.3%)
MS-4 (3.3%)
IA-2 (1.7%)
AZ-2 (1.7%)
MN-1 (0.8%)
NJ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1 (0.8%)
HI-1 (0.8%)
IL-1 (0.8%)
TN-1 (0.8%)
AL-1 (0.8%)

I'd say our staff is covering a lot of ground.

This is very revealing.  Only 1 from TN(border state and same conference), Alabama(same conference), Minn(not too far with large population), and IL(not too far with large population).  WTH?  Certainly there are some players in these states we have a shot at.

hogsanity

Quote from: slowride on July 27, 2017, 02:01:55 pm
This is very revealing.  Only 1 from TN(border state and same conference), Alabama(same conference), Minn(not too far with large population), and IL(not too far with large population).  WTH?  Certainly there are some players in these states we have a shot at.

How many p5 conf scholarships go to players from those states aside from p5 schools in their states?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hugo Bezdek

Here are some interesting statistics from a blog I stumbled across a couple of years ago. It takes a look at where highly rated recruits live relative to FBS schools, and the second link takes a look at the distance where recruits ultimately sign.

https://huskermath.blogspot.com/2013/02/location-location-location.html

https://huskermath.blogspot.com/2013/02/location-location-location-part-1.html

A couple of take-aways that I see. 1) Arkansas doesn't have a ton of 4- and 5-star recruits within 250 miles of Fayetteville. 2) The average distance that kids sign LOI is 512 miles.

Here are some of the recruiting areas we've been talking about and how far they are from Fayetteville:

DFW - 340 mi.
Houston - 510 mi.
Shreveport - 310 mi.
New Orleans - 615 mi.
Jackson, MS - 451 mi.
Memphis - 319 mi.
Nashville - 531 mi.
St. Louis - 357 mi.
Kansas City - 233 mi.
Tulsa - 111 mi.
Oklahoma City - 216 mi.
Birmingham - 556 mi.
Mobile - 637 mi.
Atlanta - 701 mi.
Tampa - 1,157 mi.
Miami - 1,364 mi.

Almost all of these are outside the 250 mile radius but several are within 512. Georgia and Florida are well outside the 512 mi. radius. That's not to say we shouldn't recruit there, just that it's more of a challenge. We're more likely to have success with kids closer to home.

gchamblee

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 06:45:32 pm
For Bielema's classes from 2013-2017 here are the states from which we signed our players (total of 121).

AR-33 (27.3%)
FL-17 (14.0%)
TX-15 (12.4%)
LA-12 (9.9%)
CA-8 (6.6%)
GA-6 (5.0%)
KS-6 (5.0%)
MO-5 (4.1%)
OK-4 (3.3%)
MS-4 (3.3%)
IA-2 (1.7%)
AZ-2 (1.7%)
MN-1 (0.8%)
NJ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1 (0.8%)
HI-1 (0.8%)
IL-1 (0.8%)
TN-1 (0.8%)
AL-1 (0.8%)

I'd say our staff is covering a lot of ground.

Nice data. Coaches seem to be covering nice territory.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 27, 2017, 12:22:51 pm
We aren't doing as much in Tennessee as we might be able to do, but we are certainly making some inroads into other states.

Bielema's classes from 2013-2017 here are the states from which we signed our players (total of 121).

AR-33 (27.3%)
FL-17 (14.0%)
TX-15 (12.4%)
LA-12 (9.9%)
CA-8 (6.6%)
GA-6 (5.0%)
KS-6 (5.0%)
MO-5 (4.1%)
OK-4 (3.3%)
MS-4 (3.3%)
IA-2 (1.7%)
AZ-2 (1.7%)
MN-1 (0.8%)
NJ-1 (0.8%)
CO-1 (0.8%)
HI-1 (0.8%)
IL-1 (0.8%)
TN-1 (0.8%)
AL-1 (0.8%)

I'd say our staff is covering a lot of ground.


So are these stats supposed to good? I understand the JUCO's coming from CA,KS, and AZ. That actually skews the information. Because it doesn't correlate to where they are actually from.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hawghiggs on July 27, 2017, 09:39:36 pm
So are these stats supposed to good? I understand the JUCO's coming from CA,KS, and AZ. That actually skews the information. Because it doesn't correlate to where they are actually from.

Again, no judgement here as to whether these actual, factual numbers are good or bad, just a representation of where the kids were located when we signed them.
Go Hogs Go!

Jim Harris

Quote from: maggiesue on July 25, 2017, 11:17:11 pm
As we all know (see Bama), you have to recruit well to contend for a playoff spot.  Clearly the state of Arkansas doesn't have enough SEC caliber high school talent to field a contender.  That said, if you were a new coach at Arkansas, where would you focus your recruiting efforts and what would be your key selling points to a high school kid to make him want to be a Hog?  I will hang up and listen.

Arkansas, the DFW Metroplex and east Texas, western Tennessee and Missouri, and anybody I could pick off from I-10 Houston to Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle, and I-20 across Louisiana through Mississippi, Alabama to Georgia. And I would have somebody solely focused on jucos coast to coast to pick up 2-3 a year there. I would want 50 percent of my class to be Arkies/DFW/East Texas. You can also include the occasional Okie in with that group. The other 50 percent would be from those other areas, so half my staff would be on those areas and half devoted to Arkie/DFW/ETX area.
I would also hire a staff whose sole goal would be to outwork anybody else, which would be difficult since everybody worth a darn also has that drive. If you're a lazy recruiter, you are out. You don't deliver quality players to offer, you're out. You don't deliver guys ready to commit when I close them, you are out. Simple as that.
It would help if these guys could also coach. ;)
"We've been trying to build a program on a 7-8 win per season business model .... We upgraded the Business Model." -- John Tyson