Track Hogs Finish 4th

[runninhog]

The mens team finished 4th at nationals and won a podium spot. We of course want to win every year, but this year we just didn't have the horses. Jack Bruce made a heroic run in the 5000 yesterday, getting second, but overall, our distance program is a but a shadow of what it once was. We used to get big points from the distance crew, but now we seem to rely more on sprints and field events.  We didn't have a single entry in the 1500 or the steeplechase and only one runner in the 5000. Colorado, by contrast, had three in the 5000. That's how we used to be....

We also got second in the triple jump and 4X400.

The national meet was, however, the SEC invitational. 8 of the top ten were SEC schools.  The women wrap up today.

[TebowHater]

Thanks, as always, for the updates! How are the women doing?

Also, what is your take on the problem with the distance team - obviously, J McD was a legend in that arena and the success there can't be expected to be paralleled but is there a recruiting issue, coaching, etc?

That is a more dominant performance by the SEC than even our prime in football. Wow.

[Kevin]

after 6 of 21 events the women are fifth.

unfortunately one of the events finished is pole vault
lexi finished 2nd
tori finished 6
desiree finished 8

[runninhog]

Thanks, as always, for the updates! How are the women doing?

Also, what is your take on the problem with the distance team - obviously, J McD was a legend in that arena and the success there can't be expected to be paralleled but is there a recruiting issue, coaching, etc?

That is a more dominant performance by the SEC than even our prime in football. Wow.

Back in the day, Arkansas won everything- Texas/Penn Relays, Cross/Indoor/Outdoor. If there was a Razorback entered in a horizontal jump event or the 800-10k they were probably going to win it.

I started to see the shift in the distance dominance shortly after the 2005 season. The 2003 and 2004 teams were great, balanced teams with Daniel Lincoln and Alistair Cragg, two NCAA champions. Cragg is an NCAA record holder in the 3000. They also had a NCAA champion 1500 runner, Chris Mulvaney. John got some good guys after that. The 2005 cross team finished second at nationals, but you could sense that Wisco, Stanford and Colorado were building better distance programs. By 2007, we'd slipped to 23rd in cross country and 28th in 2008, finishing behind Alabama and Auburn at nationals. We were back up to 5th last year, but finished behind Ole Miss.

I think the issue is that Bucknam is just following a legend and the expectations are probably unrealistic. He's following the most legendary running coach in the history of collegiate sports. It's like following Wooden at UCLA. There's more parity and a lot more coaches that have mastered the art of producing great runners.

[runninhog]

after 6 of 21 events the women are fifth.

unfortunately one of the events finished is pole vault
lexi finished 2nd
tori finished 6
desiree finished 8

A little disappointing, but they still picked up solid points, and they're young. Five seniors from other schools just had better days.

[Hogs run wild]

isn't the FL coach the one John McDonnell wanted to be his successor?

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

The mens team finished 4th at nationals and won a podium spot. We of course want to win every year, but this year we just didn't have the horses. Jack Bruce made a heroic run in the 5000 yesterday, getting second, but overall, our distance program is a but a shadow of what it once was. We used to get big points from the distance crew, but now we seem to rely more on sprints and field events.  We didn't have a single entry in the 1500 or the steeplechase and only one runner in the 5000. Colorado, by contrast, had three in the 5000. That's how we used to be....

We also got second in the triple jump and 4X400.

The national meet was, however, the SEC invitational. 8 of the top ten were SEC schools.  The women wrap up today.

Fire some Mutha Freaka's.!!!!!

[woodhog14]

isn't the FL coach the one John McDonnell wanted to be his successor?

Yep.

Bucknam is slowly declining this program. Florida and A&M are getting ready to take over.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

I don't understand what Bucknam's strategy is.  He has decathletes and sprinters. McDonnell's strategy of getting lots of long- and middle-distance runners set him up for high finishes in indoor, outdoor, and cross country. They could do multiple events, even the jumpers could double.  And sprinters are generally on or off. If you're a little off, you finish sixth rather than first or second.  A good distance runner can be a little off and not lose as many places. Am I missing something?

EFBAB

[HognitiveDissonance]

4th is a real good finish for this team. Good job Hogs.

I mostly agree that Bucknam faces an impossible task in following McDonnell. He's done a fine job. He's just not the legendary John McDonnell.
What Arkansas did under McDonnell should not have happened, but it did. We're just dropping down to earth now.

Last year is what really disappointed me. When a single guy (Lawson) scores 31 points all by himself, and we still couldn't win, that concerned me a great deal that we may not see another Outdoor title soon.

[runninhog]

Niki Hiltz just ran her heart out for the ladies in the 1500. Close lean at the tape...she got second and scored some valuable points.

[runninhog]

I don't understand what Bucknam's strategy is.  He has decathletes and sprinters. McDonnell's strategy of getting lots of long- and middle-distance runners set him up for high finishes in indoor, outdoor, and cross country. They could do multiple events, even the jumpers could double.  And sprinters are generally on or off. If you're a little off, you finish sixth rather than first or second.  A good distance runner can be a little off and not lose as many places. Am I missing something?

EFBAB

I prefer that strategy, but Florida is winning with sprinters.

[ICEman]

I prefer that strategy, but Florida is winning with sprinters.

Correction, Florida wins with horizontal jumpers!

[Boarcephus]

I don't understand what Bucknam's strategy is.  He has decathletes and sprinters. McDonnell's strategy of getting lots of long- and middle-distance runners set him up for high finishes in indoor, outdoor, and cross country. They could do multiple events, even the jumpers could double.  And sprinters are generally on or off. If you're a little off, you finish sixth rather than first or second.  A good distance runner can be a little off and not lose as many places. Am I missing something?

EFBAB

I like what McDonnell said about the sprinters, they're always pulling or tweaking something.  I think track is falling in line with other Razorback sports, just a tad above mediocre. 

[ricepig]

I like what McDonnell said about the sprinters, they're always pulling or tweaking something.  I think track is falling in line with other Razorback sports, just a tad above mediocre. 

Yeah finishing in the top 5/6 in any sport is mediocre, lol.

[Kevin]

women came in 6th.  disappointing.

it is also crazy teams have to go up there into that crappy weather and compete

[nwahogfan1]

Great job men. Woo Pigs

[ICEman]

women came in 6th.  disappointing.

it is also crazy teams have to go up there into that crappy weather and compete

Plus very inconvenient for everyone east of the Rockies!

[Punjamyhotfrog]

Yeah finishing in the top 5/6 in any sport is mediocre, lol.

Arkansas has Alabama football like expectations and rightfully so. Bucknam has proved he can not compete with Florida and Texas A&M at these national meets. Also a shame that he has let the distance team slide down the ladder in the post McDonnell era

[BigSexyHog]

It's amazing to see the top track programs are all in the SEC.

[Waldron_Hog]

Hasnt bucknam won 1 natuonal title?

[go hogues]

Florida and A&M are getting ready to take over.

If A&M really wanted to, they could become dominant in every sport, every year. It's truly amazing how they can't find a way to do it.

[ICEman]

Arkansas has Alabama football like expectations and rightfully so. Bucknam has proved he can not compete with Florida and Texas A&M at these national meets. Also a shame that he has let the distance team slide down the ladder in the post McDonnell era

Program wise we are quite healthy and we have an outstanding group coming back/in next year.

[limitless]

Men's team just handed the John McDonnell trophy for NCAA Division 1 Program of the Year.  Those of you who think we're slipping need to understand the event concentration that other teams choose when allocating their measly 12.6 scholarships.  Many put it into distance runners to chase a national championship in Cross Country but fail miserably in the indoor and outdoor track seasons (Colorado, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Stanford, Villanova to name a few).  Others chase track titles with no distance runners (Florida and A&M have been very successful at this, but have NO distance capability while Georgia and Virginia are ALL field events). 

To be good over all 3 (cross, indoor and outdoor) is very difficult, and I say this as a former distance runner for John.   Nike U (aka Oregon) is the other preeminent total team program and they have Phil Knight dangling future pro contracts at their highly touted recruits - something that is tough to compete with in recruiting. 

So lets be fair here. Bucknam has won 1 national championship and his teams have placed in the top 5 at the national meet 15 times?   What other UofA athletic program on the men's side can come even close. Yes John created an expectation that is unrealistic to be able to duplicate.  But Bucknam's doing a pretty damn good job.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Men's team just handed the John McDonnell trophy for NCAA Division 1 Program of the Year.  Those of you who think we're slipping need to understand the event concentration that other teams choose when allocating their measly 12.6 scholarships.  Many put it into distance runners to chase a national championship in Cross Country but fail miserably in the indoor and outdoor track seasons (Colorado, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Stanford, Villanova to name a few).  Others chase track titles with no distance runners (Florida and A&M have been very successful at this, but have NO distance capability while Georgia and Virginia are ALL field events). 

To be good over all 3 (cross, indoor and outdoor) is very difficult, and I say this as a former distance runner for John.   Nike U (aka Oregon) is the other preeminent total team program and they have Phil Knight dangling future pro contracts at their highly touted recruits - something that is tough to compete with in recruiting. 

So lets be fair here. Bucknam has won 1 national championship and his teams have placed in the top 5 at the national meet 15 times?   What other UofA athletic program on the men's side can come even close. Yes John created an expectation that is unrealistic to be able to duplicate.  But Bucknam's doing a pretty damn good job.

Comparing Arkansas to Oregon's money, it was interesting to see the blade runner guy from Utah select Ark over Oregon. Had offers from both. But I guess we don't know the offer he had, but still was a coup to get him.

[runninhog]

Men's team just handed the John McDonnell trophy for NCAA Division 1 Program of the Year.  Those of you who think we're slipping need to understand the event concentration that other teams choose when allocating their measly 12.6 scholarships.  Many put it into distance runners to chase a national championship in Cross Country but fail miserably in the indoor and outdoor track seasons (Colorado, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Stanford, Villanova to name a few).  Others chase track titles with no distance runners (Florida and A&M have been very successful at this, but have NO distance capability while Georgia and Virginia are ALL field events). 

To be good over all 3 (cross, indoor and outdoor) is very difficult, and I say this as a former distance runner for John.   Nike U (aka Oregon) is the other preeminent total team program and they have Phil Knight dangling future pro contracts at their highly touted recruits - something that is tough to compete with in recruiting. 

So lets be fair here. Bucknam has won 1 national championship and his teams have placed in the top 5 at the national meet 15 times?   What other UofA athletic program on the men's side can come even close. Yes John created an expectation that is unrealistic to be able to duplicate.  But Bucknam's doing a pretty damn good job.

I generally agree with what you're saying. Especially the point about Nike U. You can get distance kids with academic money and small amounts of athletic department funds. All the kid cares about is that everything is paid. Of course this means this distance kids have the grades/scores to get that money. Otherwise, they're no different than an athlete that gets 100% of its money from the athletic department.  A pretty common occurrence.....

[MemphisBossHog]

Thanks, as always, for the updates! How are the women doing?

Also, what is your take on the problem with the distance team - obviously, J McD was a legend in that arena and the success there can't be expected to be paralleled but is there a recruiting issue, coaching, etc?

That is a more dominant performance by the SEC than even our prime in football. Wow.

I see sports documentaries about other programs in different sports and how they dominated, but I have never seen anything about Arkansas track.  I think someone on here has as part of their signature when they post that Arkansas has 43 national championships in Track and Field and Cross Country.  I mean no other school comes close in any other sport do they?  John McDonnell is/was a legend.  Did Florida's track coach come from Arkansas?  I thought at one time Fla's coach was JMcD's assistant--Booth??? was that his name?

[Killean]

Dick Booth is who McDonnell wanted to take over the program.


He went to Florida as an ASSISTANT.  He was there 2 years, then he took over the Alabama T&F program.  He's no longer the head coach there either, instead he's moved into special operations.


Bucknam has absolutely been more successful than Dick Booth.  It's a hard truth to face for a lot of people, but he's a pretty damn good coach and is keeping us relevant in the changing times.  He's had a bit of bad luck.. otherwise we might have a couple more national titles.  We're in good shape though.

[MemphisBossHog]

Dick Booth is who McDonnell wanted to take over the program.


He went to Florida as an ASSISTANT.  He was there 2 years, then he took over the Alabama T&F program.  He's no longer the head coach there either, instead he's moved into special operations.


Bucknam has absolutely been more successful than Dick Booth.  It's a hard truth to face for a lot of people, but he's a pretty damn good coach and is keeping us relevant in the changing times.  He's had a bit of bad luck.. otherwise we might have a couple more national titles.  We're in good shape though.

Gotcha.  Thanks for the info

[runninhog]

Dick Booth is who McDonnell wanted to take over the program.


He went to Florida as an ASSISTANT.  He was there 2 years, then he took over the Alabama T&F program.  He's no longer the head coach there either, instead he's moved into special operations.


Bucknam has absolutely been more successful than Dick Booth.  It's a hard truth to face for a lot of people, but he's a pretty damn good coach and is keeping us relevant in the changing times.  He's had a bit of bad luck.. otherwise we might have a couple more national titles.  We're in good shape though.

I thought Dick Booth was fired by Bucknam. A lot of former Hog athletes were shocked.  I remember seeing something about him being in a bad accident earlier this year that ended up killing his wife.

[JHicks3636]

I thought Dick Booth was fired by Bucknam. A lot of former Hog athletes were shocked.  I remember seeing something about him being in a bad accident earlier this year that ended up killing his wife.

It was a snowmobile accident in February in Colorado and his wife was killed and he was injured.

[arkansastrack]

Dick Booth is who McDonnell wanted to take over the program.


He went to Florida as an ASSISTANT.  He was there 2 years, then he took over the Alabama T&F program.  He's no longer the head coach there either, instead he's moved into special operations.


Bucknam has absolutely been more successful than Dick Booth.  It's a hard truth to face for a lot of people, but he's a pretty damn good coach and is keeping us relevant in the changing times.  He's had a bit of bad luck.. otherwise we might have a couple more national titles.  We're in good shape though.

He retired earlier this year. I would say Booth has had a more successful career than Bucknam to this point. People forget that in track each coach has complete autonomy over their events and operates as a mini team within the larger team. We hardly ever saw the sprinters or distance guys except at meetings and meets. The head coach mainly decides on what the make up of the team is which dictates strategy. This as well as McDonnells skill at coaching the distance events is what made him the legend he is. Combine this with the fact that you also had arguably the best jumps coach in NCAA history and you can see the recipe that developed the program to what it was.

Bucknam has done a good job but has probably underachieved some as a distance coach which is where we have been hurting as of late. I still think the strategy that worked for decades would still work very well which is focus on distance and jumps since you get more bang for your buck so to speak.