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Author Topic: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons  (Read 1145 times)

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MuskogeeHogFan

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2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« on: April 16, 2017, 04:07:41 pm »

Coming into the 2014 season we had a Jr. QB in Brandon Allen who in the previous season had completed just 49.6% of his passes for an average of 141 yds/gm (1552 for the season), 13 TDs and 10 INTs. As in 2013, in 2014 he would remain under the tutelage of current OC Jim Chaney and while Brandon Allen really improved in his passing from 2013-2014 (2285 yards, 20 TDs, 5 INTs) he would still complete less than 60% of his passes (56.0%). Still, his results were probably far better than anyone expected after having witnessed the 2013 season.

We also had 2 promising RBs in Williams (900 yards in 2013) and Collins (1026 yards in 2013) that we had high hopes for in 2014. Both of these RBs would rush for over 1,000 yards in 2014 (1,190 and 1,100 respectively).

At TE we had So. Hunter Henry (28 for 409, 4 TDs in 2013), So. Jeremy Sprinkle  (4-68 yds, 0 TDs), Jr. and Mitch Loewen (2-29 yds, 1 TD). Former QB AJ Derby would be converted to a TE for 2014. Who would have thought that A.J. Derby would be so successful at TE before the 2014 season began?

We lost our leading WR from 2013 in Javontee Herndon as well as our third leading receiver Julian Horton but returning for 2014 at WR were Jr. Keon Hatcher (27-346 yds-2 TDs in 2013), Jr. DArthur Cowan (4-26 yds, 0 TDs), So. Eric Hawkins (3-32 yds, 0 TDs) and So. Drew Morgan (0-0-0). Sr. Demetrius Wilson would come back to contribute in 2014 and we added Fr. Jared Cornelius and transfer Cody Hollister, both of whom would contribute their first year on the hill.

Along the O-line we lost David Hurd and Travis Swanson after the 2013 season but we had Sr. Brey Cook, Jr. Grady Ollison, Jr. Mitch Smothers, So. Denver Kirkland and So. Dan Skipper returning. Not a lot of depth. Frank Ragnow would come in and see playing time as a true Freshman in 2014. We would also add JC Transfer Sebastion Tretola who would earn a starting spot in 2014.

After the 2013 season we lost but one DB, Eric Bennett. Returning at DB we had 4 Seniors (Coleman, Mitchel, Turner and Washington), 4 Juniors (Fisher, Gaines, Hines and McKinney) and 2 Sophomores (Collins and Dean). We added Freshmen Toliver, Ramirez and Liddell in 2014.

At LB in 2014 we had Srs. Daunte Carr, Braylon Mitchell and Martrell Spaight and So. Brooks Ellis returning. We added So. Josh Williams (JC Transfer) and 3 Freshmen in Eugene, Hackett and Ramsey. The previous year (2013) we also had Atiga, Holmes, Austin Jones and Jarrett Lake with Lake being the biggest loss from 2013. We also had two LBs transfer out after 2013, Jr. Myke Tavarres and So. Otha Peters. We lost 6 LBs from the team after the 2013 season. This continued to contribute to our lack of depth at LB. At that point who would have thought that the LBs would play as well as they did in 2014?

Coming into the 2014 season we had lost half of our DT rotation from 2013 with the departure of Byran Jones and Robert Thomas. Returning from the 2013 rotation would be DeMarcus Hodge and Darius Philon, but a little used Freshman from 2013 would begin to assert himself in 2014, Taiwan Johnson.

On the outside at DE we lost Chris Smith after the 2013 season but we returned Sr. Trey Flowers and So. Jamichael Winston. So. Deatrich Wise had seen action in 10 games in 2013 and he and Fr. Tevin Beanum would provide depth for 2014.

In comparing 2013 to 2014 and 2016 to 2017 I think we can come to reasonable conclusions.

Austin Allen should perform better in 2017 than he did in 2016 and part of that is due to having had more experience but I think it is also due to development of Allen and the play calling by Dan Enos.

At RB I am sure that we all have confidence in RW III and Whaley and they should both have fine seasons, but we have added quality depth at RB with T.J. Hammonds, a resurgent Juan Day, Maleek Williams and Chase Hayden. When was the last time we could say we had such quality depth at RB?

How things turn out at TE is yet to be seen but we actually have the potential to be better there, in terms of overall quality and depth than we have been in the past. We will have 3-4 competing for playing time.

WR seems to be a bit of a question mark but I think we will have enough quality that we can field 4 to 6 that could be interchangeable. Light years ahead of 2013-2014.

The Offensive Line is deeper than it has been in many years, we only lost 1 starter from last year, we have a lot more experience and I think, weve elevated recruiting and developed talent levels at that position group. No reason for them to not be significantly better in 2017.

As for the defensive secondary, we lost 2 DBs from last year, Collins and Dean, but we certainly return a lot of experience and a lot of talent in the Secondary, 4 Seniors in Liddell, Coley, Richardson and Toliver, 3 Juniors in Ramirez, Pulley and Reid Miller, 4 Sophomores in Britto Tutt, Nate Dalton, Micah Smith and Deon Edwards and then there is that incoming Freshman class that will likely see at least a couple of guys see some playing time this fall. This could be the best secondary that we have seen in years.

At LB we should be better overall as a group than we were last year. This group is more athletic and mobile and basically, we lose 1 starter in Brooks Ellis. Remember 2013 going into 2014. We didnt see any way that we would be vastly improved in 2014 over 2013, but we were.

At both DE and DT/NT I think that we will be improved for two reasons, first a more aggressive style of play (which is going to be huge) and the types of players that we will have back. Would I like to have Ledbetter, Taiwan and Wise back for one more year? Absolutely. But those players that we have are going to be very productive group for us in this new scheme. Remember, after 2013 we lost 3 of our 4 on the D-line and we still came back and played very well in 2014.

If everything comes together for this team as it could in 2017 this could be a team with a far better offensive performance than we saw in 2014 and while the defense may not be on the same level as the 2014 version, it could wind up being pretty close. It would be nice if we could click on both sides of the ball in the same season. We certainly have more talent and developed talent, as well as depth at most every position than we had going from 2013 into 2014. And if we had a better passing game in 2014 (like we will have in 2017) I suspect that team might have won at least 3 more games than it did.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 05:49:05 pm by MuskogeeHogFan »
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bennyl08

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2017, 06:51:08 pm »

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The only comment I would make would be the depth at RB. When have we had this much depth at x gets used a lot, in particular because many of the players still have great potential while when looking at the past, we judge afterwards.

For example, in 2009 we had DeAnthony Curtis, Broderick Green, Ronnie Wingo Jr, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, and Michael Smith at RB. That's four 4* backs, 1 proven 1k rusher, and another who would go on to be the career KR leader in the SEC.

It's easy to look at our group now and say obviously it is much more exciting than that group, but that's largely after knowing the eventual production of that group while we have hopes and wishes for the current one.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 07:12:00 pm »

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The only comment I would make would be the depth at RB. When have we had this much depth at x gets used a lot, in particular because many of the players still have great potential while when looking at the past, we judge afterwards.

For example, in 2009 we had DeAnthony Curtis, Broderick Green, Ronnie Wingo Jr, Knile Davis, Dennis Johnson, and Michael Smith at RB. That's four 4* backs, 1 proven 1k rusher, and another who would go on to be the career KR leader in the SEC.

It's easy to look at our group now and say obviously it is much more exciting than that group, but that's largely after knowing the eventual production of that group while we have hopes and wishes for the current one.

Well you are right when it comes to the two freshmen that I spoke of and maybe even Juan Day, who we have seen little of in his time here. But I believe I read a post where you were projecting the potential talent of some incoming freshmen as being possibly NFL worthy in the future. Now you want to talk about getting out over your ski's a bit, I'd say that is it. At least I am speaking of their potential talent at the college level without being as optimistic as to take it to the NFL level. :)

Yes, I feel very good about the potential of the RB stable that we have. And you are right, hindsight is 20-20. But think back to the backfield we had when we had D-Mac, Felix and Peyton Hillis. Who else in the backfield might have been compared to our current overall backfield? Michael Smith maybe? Good RB but smallish, a lot of heart, but couldn't carry the load by himself. But that's 4. We've got 5-6 that I feel pretty good about right now. That may change with time and with potential injuries, but at this point, this is the deepest quality backfield (from a potential standpoint) that I've seen at Arkansas in a good many years.
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PorkSoda

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 07:16:31 pm »

Took the words right out of my mouth.


LOL, only you could say that when referring to a 1,200 word post
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 07:24:51 pm »

LOL, only you could say that when referring to a 1,200 word post

I don't know if it is 1200 words, but it was a lot of words. ;)  Problem is, it took that many to cover all of that information. What are your thoughts about how going from 2013 to the 2014 season, compared to going from the 2016 to 2017 season might compare? Read the post. It would certainly seem that we are better prepared for 2017 than we were for 2014.
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Al Boarland

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 07:26:40 pm »

**
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Al Boarland

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 07:27:39 pm »

Great post, OP. I think we have enough talent/experience to climb all the way up to 8 wins this season. Only problem I see is that our swing games to get to 8 are on the road.

A&M and SC.

Any reasonable fan can look at 3 teams that are more than likely an L from a talent standpoint.

Bama
Auburn
LSU
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bennyl08

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 07:28:07 pm »

Well you are right when it comes to the two freshmen that I spoke of and maybe even Juan Day, who we have seen little of in his time here. But I believe I read a post where you were projecting the potential talent of some incoming freshmen as being possibly NFL worthy in the future. Now you want to talk about getting out over your ski's a bit, I'd say that is it. At least I am speaking of their potential talent at the college level without being as optimistic as to take it to the NFL level. :)

Yes, I feel very good about the potential of the RB stable that we have. And you are right, hindsight is 20-20. But think back to the backfield we had when we had D-Mac, Felix and Peyton Hillis. Who else in the backfield might have been compared to our current overall backfield? Michael Smith maybe? Good RB but smallish, a lot of heart, but couldn't carry the load by himself. But that's 4. We've got 5-6 that I feel pretty good about right now. That may change with time and with potential injuries, but at this point, this is the deepest quality backfield (from a potential standpoint) that I've seen at Arkansas in a good many years.

Haha, yeah, I'm the last person who can or ever should criticize somebody about projecting a teensy bit too far into the future. However, I never get out over my skis. If you were to have seen me on Mt. Bachelor in Oregon earlier this year, you'd know I'm the guy going down the mountain at 1 mph, pizzad at like pi/3 the whole way down and basically ruined my ankles after like 2 runs. :)  (was only my 2nd time ever skiing and the first was over 10 years ago, I was better the 2nd day... )
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HamSammich

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 07:28:31 pm »

I suspect benny and Muskogee are roommates. go to the same church, play on the same kickball team, and eat their razorback cornflakes each morning together. Just a suspicion
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 07:30:56 pm »

I suspect benny and Muskogee are roommates. go to the same church, play on the same kickball team, and eat their razorback cornflakes each morning together. Just a suspicion

Yeah well, we don't even live in the same time zones, but we do have one thing in common, we love the Hogs.
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bennyl08

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 07:31:42 pm »

**

South Carolina is a swing game in the same sense that Miss St is a swing game. TCU was a way better team last year than SC was last year and returns most of their team same as SC. If Muschamp can get SC to the same level of team that TCU was last year, he would have my vote for coach of the year.
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HamSammich

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 07:33:44 pm »

being a fan should never be an excuse to handicap your intellect to live in a dream world. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan. I just refuse to blind myself. This year may not go the way you think this year may go.
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bennyl08

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 07:35:11 pm »

I suspect benny and Muskogee are roommates. go to the same church, play on the same kickball team, and eat their razorback cornflakes each morning together. Just a suspicion

Musk is from the phillipines and lives in Oregon?

If Musk is my roommate, we don't go to the same church. I'm a very religious man, devoting saturdays and sundays to the my church, which holds its service either on my couch in front the of TV with football on, at a friends, or at a bar, and only during fall/early winter.

I've sadly never played kickball with my roommate. Haven't played it since the sunday bloody mary brunch league back in Fayetteville actually.

More of a chex guy than a corn flakes, though I do like the idea that a corn flake is more likely to have the shape of a razorback. Could be on to something.
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Al Boarland

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 07:35:29 pm »

South Carolina is a swing game in the same sense that Miss St is a swing game. TCU was a way better team last year than SC was last year and returns most of their team same as SC. If Muschamp can get SC to the same level of team that TCU was last year, he would have my vote for coach of the year.

Well, we get Miss St at home. That game is very much a toss up. Depending on how it shakes out we will likely have 3-4 losses by the time they come to town. Depending on how their season goes they could be favored.
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PorkSoda

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 07:40:49 pm »


Yes, I feel very good about the potential of the RB stable that we have. And you are right, hindsight is 20-20. But think back to the backfield we had when we had D-Mac, Felix and Peyton Hillis. Who else in the backfield might have been compared to our current overall backfield? Michael Smith maybe? Good RB but smallish, a lot of heart, but couldn't carry the load by himself. But that's 4. We've got 5-6 that I feel pretty good about right now.

that is really stretching it. 

of the first 4

McFadden
Jones
Hillis
Smith

vs

RW3
Whaley
Maleek
Hammonds

there really is no choice

and who is going to push the current group over the edge for you?  Day? McPherson? really?

I mean I like the guys we have, but its not even fair to compare them to the 2006 RB squad.

even if you are comparing it to the next group with

2010
Knile Davis
Dennis Johnson
Wingo
Curtis
green

or

2012
Davis
Dennis
Williams
Wingo

they are pretty similar in talent level.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2017, 07:46:40 pm »

I don't know if it is 1200 words, but it was a lot of words. ;)  Problem is, it took that many to cover all of that information. What are your thoughts about how going from 2013 to the 2014 season, compared to going from the 2016 to 2017 season might compare? Read the post. It would certainly seem that we are better prepared for 2017 than we were for 2014.
actually it is 1,220 Words, lol.  my only point was that benny also has a penchant for wordy posts, so it struck my funny bone when he said you took the words right out of his mouth.

that said, I agree with your OP.  it is a similar situation, except that we are actually better prepared with better depth this time.

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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2017, 07:53:06 pm »

that is really stretching it. 

of the first 4

McFadden
Jones
Hillis
Smith

vs

RW3
Whaley
Maleek
Hammonds

there really is no choice

and who is going to push the current group over the edge for you?  Day? McPherson? really?

I mean I like the guys we have, but its not even fair to compare them to the 2006 RB squad.

even if you are comparing it to the next group with

2010
Knile Davis
Dennis Johnson
Wingo
Curtis
green

or

2012
Davis
Dennis
Williams
Wingo

they are pretty similar in talent level.

At RB I am sure that we all have confidence in RW III and Whaley and they should both have fine seasons, but we have added quality depth at RB with T.J. Hammonds, a resurgent Juan Day, Maleek Williams and Chase Hayden. When was the last time we could say we had such quality depth at RB?


I see 6 this year as compared to any year before.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2017, 07:57:49 pm »

I see 6 this year as compared to any year before.
we could have 12, and it still wouldn't be better than 2006.

but I still think we do have a talented group that will be learning under a couple very solid backs.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 08:15:18 pm »

I see 6 this year as compared to any year before.

Coaches have been adamant that Hammonds this year is first and foremost a WR.

Hillis9343
Felix 8667
Barnett 8111
Mcfadden 9855
Jackson 8667
M. Smith ????
average 8928

Day: 8528
Williams 8569
Whaley 9523
Hammonds 9072*
Williams 8515
Hayden 8899
average 8807 sans Hammonds, 8851 with.

Composite 247 rankings of the backs from 2007 vs 2017 (I like the decadal symmetry here). Could not find Smith for the life of me on 247. I'm betting he was probably lower than an .89 composite though.

Curtis 9552
Johnson 8229
Wingo Jr 9315
Davis 9127
Green 9087
M. Smith ????
average: 9062
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 08:16:42 pm »

If somebody could find Smith's 247 rating (even an advanced google search searching only 247sports isn't helping me), that'd be great.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 08:17:28 pm »

Coaches have been adamant that Hammonds this year is first and foremost a WR.



Yes, I'm aware, but I'll be surprised if we don't see him (situationally) running the ball at times. They want him to be able to do both, is what I understood, even though WR is where they are putting him this season. And I could care less about the ratings. Talk to me after they have played 3 seasons.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 08:24:17 pm »

Yes, I'm aware, but I'll be surprised if we don't see him (situationally) running the ball at times. They want him to be able to do both, is what I understood, even though WR is where they are putting him this season. And I could care less about the ratings. Talk to me after they have played 3 seasons.

Hammonds will be a more reliable/durable ball carrier on the jet sweep play we ran with Dominque.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 08:26:23 pm »

Hammonds will be a more reliable/durable ball carrier on the jet sweep play we ran with Dominque.
I agree, probably more similar to when cornelius ran it.
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Hawgar The Horrible

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 08:47:49 pm »

STACKED with quality RB's. And I mean deep. More so than anytime I can recall.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 09:50:05 pm »

Hammonds will be a more reliable/durable ball carrier on the jet sweep play we ran with Dominque.

While true, Reed had a combined 9 carries over his entire career here. Cornelius last year along had 13 carries. There were surprisingly 30 WR carries (if we still count duwop as a WR and obviously last year TJ was a RB) last season. 16 WR/TE carries in 2015 (Sprinkle had one carry, again ignoring duwop), 5 in 2014 (ignoring duwop), and 18 in 2013 (including 1 by Sprinkle).

My gut told me that we used more WR reverses and carries and such in the past than we did this year but stats say otherwise. The only thing I could think of elsewise would be bubble screens where the pass technically went backwards? Otherwise, I mean, WR was the only returning position of strength and experience for this offense. Makes sense to give them as many touches as possible.

Which begs the question. How much was just trying to get the ball into the hands of our best guys vs Enos expanding his offense? What about 2015 where Collins was really our only main back? How many WR's will get carries next season returning RW3 and Whaley while bringing Maleek and eventually Hayden into the mix while Day has a resurgence of his own and Cornelius becomes the only experienced returning receiver while a versatile weapon such as TJ Hammonds is in our grasp??
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2017, 09:54:38 pm »

Another question is will we use Hammonds in the wildhog position?

We tried it a couple times but it seemed like we jumped offside/held/committed some type of penalty when lined up in that position.  I think Hammonds got one carry off from the wildhog in the Belk Bowl.
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bennyl08

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2017, 10:04:31 pm »

Another question is will we use Hammonds in the wildhog position?

We tried it a couple times but it seemed like we jumped offside/held/committed some type of penalty when lined up in that position.  I think Hammonds got one carry off from the wildhog in the Belk Bowl.

ESPN play by play will say if there's a change at who is lining up at qb.

Hammonds had 1 carry for 2 yards in the play by play for that game, no mention of him lining up at qb. No mention of him lining up at qb and a no play due to a false start or the such either.
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factchecker

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2017, 10:30:45 pm »

ESPN play by play will say if there's a change at who is lining up at qb.

Hammonds had 1 carry for 2 yards in the play by play for that game, no mention of him lining up at qb. No mention of him lining up at qb and a no play due to a false start or the such either.

Play by play is wrong:

Hammonds at WildHog (QB) in Belk Bowl - play blown dead due to illegal motion - skip to 8:40:


Hammonds at WildHog vs. AnM - play blown dead due to false start - skip to 12:10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrN927KkjeA
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2017, 10:42:24 pm »

ESPN play by play will say if there's a change at who is lining up at qb.

Hammonds had 1 carry for 2 yards in the play by play for that game, no mention of him lining up at qb. No mention of him lining up at qb and a no play due to a false start or the such either.

Also..... on the 2 yard run Hammonds was lined up at WildHog.

You can barely see the play because they focus on Dan Skipper's brother but at 23:00 Hammonds runs the ball from the WildHog after faking the hand off to Drew.


I remember because him running the play at least twice because I was at the Belk Bowl.

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Hawgar The Horrible

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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2017, 10:48:40 pm »

It takes Dmac type talent to pull off a play telegraphed to the defense prior to the snap. That's not in the present arsenal.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 10:49:47 pm »

It takes Dmac type talent to pull off a play telegraphed to the defense prior to the snap. That's not in the present arsenal.

Especially when we are jumping offsides.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2017, 11:10:13 pm »

Great post MHF. Appreciate your input here.
If I remember correctly, BB said after he was hired it would take about 5 years to build the depth needed to be where we need to be (not exactly what was said but something like that). This years hogs have a lot hopeful possibilities for sure. Leadership, IMO, will be key for this years team as I believe we have the talent to beat any team on our schedule, and yes I include Bama.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 11:40:56 pm »

Play by play is wrong:

Hammonds at WildHog (QB) in Belk Bowl - play blown dead due to illegal motion - skip to 8:40:


Hammonds at WildHog vs. AnM - play blown dead due to false start - skip to 12:10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrN927KkjeA

Oh SNAP!
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2017, 07:03:34 am »

Great post MHF. Appreciate your input here.
If I remember correctly, BB said after he was hired it would take about 5 years to build the depth needed to be where we need to be (not exactly what was said but something like that). This years hogs have a lot hopeful possibilities for sure. Leadership, IMO, will be key for this years team as I believe we have the talent to beat any team on our schedule, and yes I include Bama.

I think that in most positions we have the quality of players (and quality depth) to be competitive with any team that we play. We aren't going to win them all but if we are competitive and we can keep it close against the teams that we normally have a hard time with, a break going our way could shift the outcome in our favor. We need to beat Auburn and A&M this year and of course, beating Alabama would be nice as well.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2017, 07:14:23 am »

I think that in most positions we have the quality of players (and quality depth) to be competitive with any team that we play. We aren't going to win them all but if we are competitive and we can keep it close against the teams that we normally have a hard time with, a break going our way could shift the outcome in our favor. We need to beat Auburn and A&M this year and of course, beating Alabama would be nice as well.
Ole Miss, Miss St and USC are huge games and will make or break this season. Could go either way.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2017, 07:38:46 am »

Ole Miss, Miss St and USC are huge games and will make or break this season. Could go either way.

I didn't mean to exclude those, I was just saying that we also needed to beat Auburn and A&M this year.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2017, 09:02:01 am »

Props to the OP for the information and comparative analysis, and I think what you're trying to compare is that this team has a chance to sneak up on people kinda like we did in 2014. However, don't you find it a bit problematic that the talent in year two under CBB (7 wins with the bowl game) compares to year 5?

If what you're saying is true, the I think you've just proven that a lot of people's frustrations with Bielema are justified in that he's hit his ceiling at Arkansas and 7-8 wins is the best he'll ever be able to string together.

Time will tell, and hopefully that isn't the case.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2017, 09:06:54 am »

We look a bit better on paper but I still worried about the D and Special Teams.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2017, 09:26:29 am »

Props to the OP for the information and comparative analysis, and I think what you're trying to compare is that this team has a chance to sneak up on people kinda like we did in 2014. However, don't you find it a bit problematic that the talent in year two under CBB (7 wins with the bowl game) compares to year 5?

If what you're saying is true, the I think you've just proven that a lot of people's frustrations with Bielema are justified in that he's hit his ceiling at Arkansas and 7-8 wins is the best he'll ever be able to string together.

Time will tell, and hopefully that isn't the case.

Actually what I am saying is that you can see what we did in 2014 with less talent and depth and headed into 2017 (though 2016 was disappointing and should have had 2-3 more wins) we are far better prepared to have a good season. The defense was a huge question mark after 2013 and at the end of that season, with a new DC coming in, no one would have predicted that the defense would perform the way it did in 2014.

Additionally, our offense in 2014 (despite having two 1000+ yard rushers) wasn't anything at all like our current team in terms of a good OC and passing game to compliment the run. And again, headed into 2017, we have a new DC and far more talent and depth than we have seen in a long time, on both sides of the ball. We might be a little short on the D-Line, but no more short than we were headed into the 2014 season.

I know everyone has questions about the defense, especially with a change in schemes, but we are in better shape to handle the changes headed into 2017 than we were headed into 2014. And I am not saying that the defense is going to set the world on fire in 2017, but I think they will be vastly improved over our 2016 version. With a better offense to boot, we may be a much improved team. I hope we are anyway.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2017, 11:44:31 am »

I'm not sure a comparison of the 2014 defense vs the 2017 defense is fair to the 2017 defense. The three main guys on that defense are starting in the NFL, one of whom, just got a super bowl ring.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2017, 11:59:52 am »

I'm not sure a comparison of the 2014 defense vs the 2017 defense is fair to the 2017 defense. The three main guys on that defense are starting in the NFL, one of whom, just got a super bowl ring.

You never know what is going to happen. At the end of the 2013 season (or even in the Spring of 2014) could you have predicted how the 2014 defense was going to perform?
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2017, 12:02:20 pm »

You never know what is going to happen. At the end of the 2013 season (or even in the Spring of 2014) could you have predicted how the 2014 defense was going to perform?

I'm not trying to predict what is going to happen. I'm simply saying it isn't a fair comparison in my opinion. 2014 was a special defensive year for Arkansas. I don't see 2017 turning out like that. If we are middle of the road defensively, I'd call that progress.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2017, 12:05:45 pm »

I'm not trying to predict what is going to happen. I'm simply saying it isn't a fair comparison in my opinion. 2014 was a special defensive year for Arkansas. I don't see 2017 turning out like that. If we are middle of the road defensively, I'd call that progress.

As I said above, I'm not expecting 2014 type of success, but I do think that they will be very improved over 2016.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2017, 12:09:11 pm »

I'm not sure a comparison of the 2014 defense vs the 2017 defense is fair to the 2017 defense. The three main guys on that defense are starting in the NFL, one of whom, just got a super bowl ring.

Trey only started 8 out of 16 regular season games for the Patriots. Philon started 2 of the 14 games he played in last season. Don't think Spaight or Mitchel had any starts.

Wise, Ledbetter, Collins, and Ellis in this year's draft all have a decent chance of being drafted, and IMO, in that order. Next year's defense has a good amount of NFL talent as well.

While the big 4 from 2014 were great to have, we may not (though I think there's a good chance we do) have the same talent at the top, but the 2017 defense is set up to have a lot more depth than 2014. Not to mention this could be the best offense the school has had, topping the 2010.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2017, 01:12:47 pm »

I didn't mean to exclude those, I was just saying that we also needed to beat Auburn and A&M this year.

What about LSU and Bama? I would put Auburn on the same tier as LSU with Bama a step above. Everyone else is clumped together. Who knows how it will shake out? There is pretty much a general consensus on the top 3 from the experts.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2017, 01:15:28 pm »

What about LSU and Bama. I would put Auburn on the same tier as LSU with Bama a step above. Everyone else is clumped together. Who knows how it will shake out. There is pretty much a general consensus on the top 3 from the experts.

I didn't think that I needed to be specific, but o.k., we need to beat everybody. Yes, of course, they are all a challenge, I'd just like to see us beat Auburn and A&M this season along with the others that we play.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2017, 10:11:11 am »

Trey only started 8 out of 16 regular season games for the Patriots. Philon started 2 of the 14 games he played in last season. Don't think Spaight or Mitchel had any starts.

Wise, Ledbetter, Collins, and Ellis in this year's draft all have a decent chance of being drafted, and IMO, in that order. Next year's defense has a good amount of NFL talent as well.

While the big 4 from 2014 were great to have, we may not (though I think there's a good chance we do) have the same talent at the top, but the 2017 defense is set up to have a lot more depth than 2014. Not to mention this could be the best offense the school has had, topping the 2010.

Good points.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2017, 10:31:11 am »

Trey only started 8 out of 16 regular season games for the Patriots. Philon started 2 of the 14 games he played in last season. Don't think Spaight or Mitchel had any starts.

Wise, Ledbetter, Collins, and Ellis in this year's draft all have a decent chance of being drafted, and IMO, in that order. Next year's defense has a good amount of NFL talent as well.

While the big 4 from 2014 were great to have, we may not (though I think there's a good chance we do) have the same talent at the top, but the 2017 defense is set up to have a lot more depth than 2014. Not to mention this could be the best offense the school has had, topping the 2010.

The point still stands. They were very good and the scheme fit them. I find it interesting people think this brand new defense is somehow going to be as good. I don't see it.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2017, 11:15:53 am »

The point still stands. They were very good and the scheme fit them. I find it interesting people think this brand new defense is somehow going to be as good. I don't see it.

Again, no one is saying that they are going to mimic the 2014 defense in terms of production. Oh they have the chance to do so, but it is more likely that they will just be improved to some degree over what we witnessed last season.
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Re: 2013 to 2014 seasons Vs. 2016 to 2017 seasons
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2017, 11:21:30 am »

The point still stands. They were very good and the scheme fit them. I find it interesting people think this brand new defense is somehow going to be as good. I don't see it.

You can find people who think a lot of things. Very very very few people think this defense will be as good as it was in 2014. I honestly can't name a single person who does actually think that, but I know they exist somewhere.

I think we have very good players but that most of our players are still young. I went in to detail somewhere earlier that based on Rhoad's average defense over a pretty extensive DC career, where our team was last year, and that we are implementing not only a new DC this season, but a scheme that is new to the players and the DC himself, that our defense should rank 45th. A substantial jump from last season, but not a ridiculous one. That said, who expected Enos to come in and have such an effect on in his career? Robb Smith? With the talent we have, I think it is certainly possible for us to 2014-esque on defense, but I'm not expecting it.
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