Bielema... Yay or nay?

[HognitiveDissonance]

He's doing well enough to keep his job.
I never expected him to be as good as Petrino, but closer to Nutt.
So I can't say anything has surprised me so far. He's doing pretty good.

[hobhog]

Meanwhile, spring practice is in full swing.

And yet this is all that people can think of to post. In April. Classic.

[Steef]

Meanwhile, spring practice is in full swing.

And yet this is all that people can think of to post. In April. Classic.

As I type this, there are more than a dozen other active threads on the main board. So no, this is not "all" anyone can think to post.

Some of them are about spring practice.

There is nothing keeping you from those practice report threads.

[GuvHog]

His data doesn't assume that. The data is what the data is. His interpretation of the data and thus his interpretation of the quality of the recruiting classes and projections of future success are based on those assumptions.

Which is why I stated the he was making a lot of broad assumptions.

I know BP isn't coming back and I wouldn't be in favor of re-hiring him but I get sick and tired of people going out of their way to trash what he accomplished here at Arkansas. Taking a program from almost nothing to a #5 national ranking in 4 short years is quite an accomplishment.

[12247]

You gotta admit, for the time of year it is, this has been a good and well attended thread, 4 pages so far.  The stats and posts bear out that folks are going to post their feelings and then back them up.  I guess that is what threads and posts are for.

Oh yeah, and here is my opinion.  Bobby Petrino got far more from the lads he assembled than BB and staff ever will get from the lads that they assembled, no matter the numbers or recruiting rating.   If BB ever puts a team on the field that is mentally ready, physically ready and well trained in the objects of the game, he will win at a decent rate, a rate that will encourage most of us to support him.  I think those chores starts and really ends with him.  BBs energy, effort, attention to detail and ability to insert mental toughness into his lads is and always will be the difference in many wins and losses.  I further believe that 2017 may be the year he busts his ass and the team benefits from that.  I believe the 2017 team will GO TO WORK, giving 4 quarters of effort, exhibiting knowledge and mental toughness.  We may win 3 or 4 and we may win 8 or 9 but a couple of those wins will come from a HC refusing to be denied and instilling that process into his charges.

[Farmer Hogget]

I cannot read through this entire thing.  It is clear that those who loved Bobby Petrino and are pissesd at Jeff Long for firing him, will never, ever accept Bret Beliema.  Period.  These people cannot come to terms with the fact that Bobby Petrino is gone and is never coming back.  They also cannot face that fact that he had NOT built a foundation.  He had a team that had great offensive fire power and outscored opponents while the defense sucked.  When most of those offensive players left, the team collapsed the year after Bobby was fired.  It would have been the same had he been here or not.  He had not recruited adequately to replace the talent that was lost. SO, Bret Beliema came in to rebuild what Bobby Petrino destroyed.  It's not easy.  the conference is tougher than it was when Bobby Petrino was here.  You can see that in the number of ranked teams Beliema's teams have faced.  There's no comparison.  But, the Petrino lovers will never be happy with anything Beliema does because he's not Bobby Petrino.  End of story. 

[majestic]

I cannot read through this entire thing.  It is clear that those who loved Bobby Petrino and are pissesd at Jeff Long for firing him, will never, ever accept Bret Beliema.  Period.  These people cannot come to terms with the fact that Bobby Petrino is gone and is never coming back.  They also cannot face that fact that he had NOT built a foundation.  He had a team that had great offensive fire power and outscored opponents while the defense sucked.  When most of those offensive players left, the team collapsed the year after Bobby was fired.  It would have been the same had he been here or not.  He had not recruited adequately to replace the talent that was lost. SO, Bret Beliema came in to rebuild what Bobby Petrino destroyed.  It's not easy.  the conference is tougher than it was when Bobby Petrino was here.  You can see that in the number of ranked teams Beliema's teams have faced.  There's no comparison.  But, the Petrino lovers will never be happy with anything Beliema does because he's not Bobby Petrino.  End of story. 

I'll be happy with Bielema when he wins 10 or 11 games. Until then, I'll continue to think he was a step down, as a coach.

[DLUXHOG]

Yay... Bielema is a HOG all the way to his core....   I love what he's building here........

[RME]

I cannot read through this entire thing.  It is clear that those who loved Bobby Petrino and are pissesd at Jeff Long for firing him, will never, ever accept Bret Beliema.  Period.  These people cannot come to terms with the fact that Bobby Petrino is gone and is never coming back.  They also cannot face that fact that he had NOT built a foundation.  He had a team that had great offensive fire power and outscored opponents while the defense sucked.  When most of those offensive players left, the team collapsed the year after Bobby was fired.  It would have been the same had he been here or not.  He had not recruited adequately to replace the talent that was lost. SO, Bret Beliema came in to rebuild what Bobby Petrino destroyed.  It's not easy.  the conference is tougher than it was when Bobby Petrino was here.  You can see that in the number of ranked teams Beliema's teams have faced.  There's no comparison.  But, the Petrino lovers will never be happy with anything Beliema does because he's not Bobby Petrino.  End of story.

So how many more years does Bielema get this leisure?

There's no doubt he had to rebuild from the ground up. No doubt the program was set back. But it's year 5. How many more years does Bielema get to "rebuild the foundation" before that phrase becomes irrelevant?

[Hawgar The Horrible]

That's obvious.

"We gone be back we hogs"

So in other words slang is inappropriate and thus immoral to you. Add racist to your resume.

[GuvHog]

I'll be happy with Bielema when he wins 10 or 11 games. Until then, I'll continue to think he was a step down, as a coach.

Heck, I'd be okay with 9 regular season wins plus a bowl win. That would at least be a solid sign of improvement.

[Steef]

I'll be happy with Bielema when he wins 10 or 11 games. Until then, I'll continue to think he was a step down, as a coach.

Actually, Bret was a step up.

He replaced Smith. Not Petrino.

Several steps up, tbh.

[Hawghiggs]

So how many more years does Bielema get this leisure?

There's no doubt he had to rebuild from the ground up. No doubt the program was set back. But it's year 5. How many more years does Bielema get to "rebuild the foundation" before that phrase becomes irrelevant?

That phrase was irrelevant last season. Every player he recruited and coached.

[Hawghiggs]

Actually, Bret was a step up.

He replaced Smith. Not Petrino.

Several steps up, tbh.

Boy ain't that the truth.

[bythelake]

Steef,  who are you???  😱😱😱

No, wait I know.

[hogcard1964]

Actually, Bret was a step up.

He replaced Smith. Not Petrino.

Several steps up, tbh.

+1000

Agree

[Athog]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

yay!!

[hogsanity]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

Stays regardless. I hear he has a great class lined up for 2023, so do not want to jeopardize that. He also hs had to clean up the mess left by JLS, he runs a clean program, he is big on getting in sate kids. Sorry, none of that is original, I stole it all from the last 4 years of the jump ball forum.

[Bebop]

Listen, nobody wants to the Hogs to lose. If so, they aren't a fan. I believe most people who are critical of Bielema want him to succeed. No Hog fan wants to lose for the sake of their criticism of Bielema. With that said, I don't think that Bielema will get the Hogs to the level of Petrino's wins (or beyond) and I say that as someone who has criticized Petrino in some of things that he did as a coach. Bielema and Petrino have their faults as coaches (not including off the field issues), however, Petrino has a record at Arkansas that Bielema has yet to meet.

I think some of the criticism of Bielema is fair and I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. Heck, I want to be wrong about Bielema but, sadly, I don't think I will be. 

[RME]

That phrase was irrelevant last season. Every player he recruited and coached.

But...but...but he still needs time to really build a foundation ya know?

[SPAL]

When does basketball season start?

[phadedhawg]

If there is a candidate available that wants to coach us and can take us to the promised land I'm all for it.  In the meantime I'm fine with giving Bielema some more time to captain the ship.  He runs a good program and keep the drama at a minimum.  It's a refreshing change. 

Last year was a bit of a letdown but those are the breaks sometimes.  Next year's schedule is a bear like usual.  Ten wins probably aren't in the offering but I'm hopeful we see some good football.

[theFlyingHog]

If there is a candidate available that wants to coach us and can take us to the promised land I'm all for it.  In the meantime I'm fine with giving Bielema some more time to captain the ship.  He runs a good program and keep the drama at a minimum.  It's a refreshing change. 

Last year was a bit of a letdown but those are the breaks sometimes.  Next year's schedule is a bear like usual.  Ten wins probably aren't in the offering but I'm hopeful we see some good football.

I feel like we're just missing a little bit of a killer instinct. I think maybe we start thinking too much? We've shown we can play some great football but need more consistency. I'll give time. Many more games like Mizz/VT/Aubbie and I may start putting on my life jacket

[ADavisTheGOAT]

When does basketball season start?

[Al Boarland]

**

[Al Boarland]

So how many more years does Bielema get this leisure?

There's no doubt he had to rebuild from the ground up. No doubt the program was set back. But it's year 5. How many more years does Bielema get to "rebuild the foundation" before that phrase becomes irrelevant?

I think the "building" group throws out year one, so one would think after this season they would say he's had time to build his program. He has marginally increased the talent. The problem is it still isn't near the level the teams CBB has to beat to take the program to the tier  the "demand" group expects.

[Dwillhog66]

I think the "building" group throws out year one, so one would think after this season they would say he's had time to build his program. He has marginally increased the talent. The problem is it still isn't near the level the teams CBB has to beat to take the program to the tier  the "demand" group expects.

The Hogville demand group for sure. The group who really makes that decision tho, who knows. My gut says if he stays competitive and the players stay on his side, he could be here for a long while.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I think the "building" group throws out year one, so one would think after this season they would say he's had time to build his program. He has marginally increased the talent. The problem is it still isn't near the level the teams CBB has to beat to take the program to the tier  the "demand" group expects.

The problem is that it is an "Arm's Race" in that everyone else is always trying to recruit better as well.

Take Alabama for instance. You would think that they always do a great job recruiting, and they do, but even they have ramped up the quality and development of the kids they recruit.

From the 2007-2011 NFL Drafts they had 19 players drafted. From 2012-2016 they had 39 players drafted. So everyone is trying to get better all the time. Reaching the top of the SEC West is a moving target.

[Inhogswetrust]

You really can't tell what you've been sold yet?

When a builder builds a house one doesn't know what they really have until the final product. Once it's in the dry it is still difficult to tell what the final product will be or look like because a lot of not done and unseen work  still has to occur. We're not in the trim out, finishing paint, fixtures and final clean up stages yet.

[Al Boarland]

The problem is that it is an "Arm's Race" in that everyone else is always trying to recruit better as well.

Take Alabama for instance. You would think that they always do a great job recruiting, and they do, but even they have ramped up the quality and development of the kids they recruit.

From the 2007-2011 NFL Drafts they had 19 players drafted. From 2012-2016 they had 39 players drafted. So everyone is trying to get better all the time. Reaching the top of the SEC West is a moving target.

You point out something fans often overlook. Many will say CBB's team will improve and the players are hungry while assuming everyone else is either staying the same or getting worse. That's not the case. Ole Miss could slide down and leave a spot open to the Hogs to move up. Will it happen? Not with head scratching losses.

[Al Boarland]

When a builder builds a house one doesn't know what they really have until the final product. Once it's in the dry it is still difficult to tell what the final product will be or look like because a lot of not done and unseen work  still has to occur. We're not in the trim out, finishing paint, fixtures and final clean up stages yet.

And when can we assume that has been done?  Is it when CBB wins 10 games because that may not ever happen.  You would have to think after this season you can make a determination on if CBB can meet the "demand" group expectations.  My feeling is that if the team wins 7/8 games some fans will move on from the "building" group, but the remainder will talk about the promise of the program through spring ball 2018.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

You point out something fans often overlook. Many will say CBB's team will improve and the players are hungry while assuming everyone else is either staying the same or getting worse. That's not the case. Ole Miss could slide down and leave a spot open to the Hogs to move up. Will it happen? Not with head scratching losses.

A lot of schools like to push the mantra that their HC "does more, with less", it really has rung true for Arkansas. Our numbers with regard to players sent to the NFL Draft aren't anywhere close to that of LSU or Alabama, we are third in the West in terms of overall numbers. But the difference is that while someone like A&M has sent fewer players to the NFL Draft than Arkansas since 2012, they have had a lot more drafted in the 1st through 3rd Rounds. So there is that factor to consider as well.

[Steef]

And when can we assume that has been done?

As I stated in my first post in this thread, I won't be judging the condition of our program (Bret's work) on wins/losses. There are other factors in that...like the other guy comes to win, also.

Some good 'signs' for me would be....
1. We actually have an experienced starting line. Offense and defense. We aren't desperately trying to get JUCOs to fill holes.
2. Our 2nd string is decent enough to give the starters a breather in tough games. I'm thinking Bama, here....where we always run out of gas.
3. Our defensive scheme isn't geared to covering up deficiencies in the secondary.
4. We actually have more than one SEC caliber linebacker on the field. On the team.
5. We go through a season without one game where the team quits in the middle of the game.
6. Bama's 3rd string, 250 pound running back cannot outrun our fastest defensive back in an open field/50 yard sprint.

Frankly, I don't really ever expect to get close to Nick again. He's got too much head start. Which means, we aren't going to Atlanta any time soon.

But 2016....none of those criteria were met. In a couple, we aren't even close.

[Al Boarland]

A lot of schools like to push the mantra that their HC "does more, with less", it really has rung true for Arkansas. Our numbers with regard to players sent to the NFL Draft aren't anywhere close to that of LSU or Alabama, we are third in the West in terms of overall numbers. But the difference is that while someone like A&M has sent fewer players to the NFL Draft than Arkansas since 2012, they have had a lot more drafted in the 1st through 3rd Rounds. So there is that factor to consider as well.

Doing more with less is the only way we can get it done.  The problem comes when you have to consistently beat the teams that do more with more.  That's what we are really talking about.  That's the mountain CBB has to climb.  He has to do that in addition to not losing to teams less or equally as talented. 

[Al Boarland]

As I stated in my first post in this thread, I won't be judging the condition of our program (Bret's work) on wins/losses. There are other factors in that...like the other guy comes to win, also.

Some good 'signs' for me would be....
1. We actually have an experienced starting line. Offense and defense. We aren't desperately trying to get JUCOs to fill holes.
2. Our 2nd string is decent enough to give the starters a breather in tough games. I'm thinking Bama, here....where we always run out of gas.
3. Our defensive scheme isn't geared to covering up deficiencies in the secondary.
4. We actually have more than one SEC caliber linebacker on the field. On the team.
5. We go through a season without one game where the team quits in the middle of the game.
6. Bama's 3rd string, 250 pound running back cannot outrun our fastest defensive back in an open field/50 yard sprint.

Frankly, I don't really ever expect to get close to Nick again. He's got too much head start. Which means, we aren't going to Atlanta any time soon.

But 2016....none of those criteria were met. In a couple, we aren't even close.

I agree the win/loss record is probably not the best metric for the program, but many won't.  They DEMAND more.

[GuvHog]

As I stated in my first post in this thread, I won't be judging the condition of our program (Bret's work) on wins/losses. There are other factors in that...like the other guy comes to win, also.

Some good 'signs' for me would be....
1. We actually have an experienced starting line. Offense and defense. We aren't desperately trying to get JUCOs to fill holes.
2. Our 2nd string is decent enough to give the starters a breather in tough games. I'm thinking Bama, here....where we always run out of gas.
3. Our defensive scheme isn't geared to covering up deficiencies in the secondary.
4. We actually have more than one SEC caliber linebacker on the field. On the team.
5. We go through a season without one game where the team quits in the middle of the game.
6. Bama's 3rd string, 250 pound running back cannot outrun our fastest defensive back in an open field/50 yard sprint.

Frankly, I don't really ever expect to get close to Nick again. He's got too much head start. Which means, we aren't going to Atlanta any time soon.

But 2016....none of those criteria were met. In a couple, we aren't even close.

I agree Arkansas isn't going to go out and win 10 or more regular season games every year but it should be possible to have that type of year every once in a while.  Except for rare years when there are extenuating circumstances, Arkansas should win at least 8 games a year though, that should be the minimum.

[hoglady]

The most confusing thing about Bielema is what most people thought would be his strengths (defense and Oline) have proven to be his weaknesses.

Who ever thought when Bielema was hired he would put a worse defense and oline on the field, than anything Petrino (or Nutt for that matter) trotted out there.

[factchecker]

The most confusing thing about Bielema is what most people thought would be his strengths (defense and Oline) have proven to be his weaknesses.

Who ever thought when Bielema was hired he would put a worse defense and oline on the field, than anything Petrino (or Nutt for that matter) trotted out there.

I agree with your overall point but as bad as our o-line was last season the 2008 oline under Petrino was much worse.  They gave up a league worst 42 sacks and only ran for 1362 yards.

[hogsanity]

, Arkansas should win at least 8 games a year though, that should be the minimum.

Based on what? Over the last 50 years they have not averaged 8 wins a year, so why should that now be the floor for the program?

[DLUXHOG]

Based on what? Over the last 50 years they have not averaged 8 wins a year, so why should that now be the floor for the program?

Since inception in the 1890's, it's been less than that.   Only 60's-80's were the best record seasons...

[hogcard1964]

I think the "building" group throws out year one, so one would think after this season they would say he's had time to build his program. He has marginally increased the talent. The problem is it still isn't near the level the teams CBB has to beat to take the program to the tier  the "demand" group expects.

The "building" group will run this excuse out there every year.  We actually got worse last season, and they're still trotting it out there.

[Torqued pork]

He needs to get a handle on the 2nd half meltdowns this year, or it will be easy to believe the Hogs have already reached their max under him.

It's  hard to not have reservations about his preparation and in-game decisions at this point unless you're  wearing blinders.

[hogsanity]

Since inception in the 1890's, it's been less than that.   Only 60's-80's were the best record seasons...

I know, I just used 50 years because that covers college football since integration and does include the "glory years" of Hog football. If you just use the years in the SEC it is 6.68 wins per season. Yet now, suddenly, the floor should be 8 according to some ( who of course offer no legit reason why that should be). 

[hogcard1964]

I know, I just used 50 years because that covers college football since integration and does include the "glory years" of Hog football. If you just use the years in the SEC it is 6.68 wins per season. Yet now, suddenly, the floor should be 8 according to some ( who of course offer no legit reason why that should be).

Long but a good analysis from a conversation I had with another poster.

8 is an average season for most programs so I personally think we can realistically expect 8–5 or 9–4 most years. We're the type of program now that it's kind of become a toss up if we're actually going to make a bowl game and we should honestly never fail to reach a bowl.

We should be able to expect 10, 11 or greater every four or five years with an experienced, well-constructed team. We could also expect a step back here and there and only win 6 or 7 a couple times a decade. Asking to win or threaten to win the conference once, twice or three times during a decade shouldn't be some kind of pipe dream. Winning eight games is just half of our conference games, three of four out of conference games, and then a low tier bowl against a weaker conference's mediocre team. Sweeping the out of conference (unless we're having a Michigan-type game, this shouldn't be too unfeasible), going a not even all that great 5–3 in conference play, and then a bowl toss-up is 9–4 or 10–3. Does this really sound all that undoable from year to year? That's nothing great or earth shattering.

We've kept up with the arms race surprisingly well. The University of Arkansas isn't poor. We have everything but a strong recruiting base. Unfortunately, that's a big problem, but our situation isn't so bad that we should have to cross our fingers to barely go above .500 every year. I mean, really consider that. That's a seriously pathetic existence. What are we doing in the SEC if we're going to win fewer than half of our conference games every year and view that as where we belong?

We're not Alabama, USC, Texas, or Michigan. We don't have a right to expect 10+ and a title run every single year. By that same token, we're also not Illinois, Texas Tech, Vanderbilt, or Purdue. We've had some seriously bad coaching hires since joining the SEC. Bret may very well turn out to be one of them. Stop hanging onto dud coaches for too long and our 7-win average will improve.

[Granny fan]

How many second half meltdowns will there be this year?  Successful coaches typically do not have those!

[hogcard1964]

How many second half meltdowns will there be this year?  Successful coaches typically do not have those!

Some of them do, just not with that regularity.

[justmakeit2thebcs]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

Troll

[MJ2]

He's not the right guy for the job.

[bphi11ips]

Troll

After 4 pages of good, honest, even civil, discussion, you come up that? 

LZH is no troll. Thoughtful, knowledgeable regulars are posting legitimate observations based upon the last four years.  Few above think this is the year to pull the plug, regardless of the record.  We would like to see a move in the direction of all-around fundamentally sound football.  That was the hallmark of Arkansas football for many years.  CBB has the right philosophy and says the right things.  This year many of us are looking to see it translated better in the execution phase. 

[GuvHog]

Based on what? Over the last 50 years they have not averaged 8 wins a year, so why should that now be the floor for the program?

Based on the fact that college football teams play more regular season games per year now than they did in the 60's and 70's. I believe the hogs only played a 10 game schedule in the 60's and for some of the 70's.  8 wins in a regular season year is very good when you only play 10 game but when you play 12 games in a year, it becomes mediocre.