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Author Topic: State of the Hogs: My take  (Read 4131 times)

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hogwood

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2017, 08:33:15 am »

You have something in your eyes.

No need to be a jerk. It's merely a difference of opinion.

Auburn, Bama, us, Florida, Kentucky, Mississippi State, and Tennessee will all have better rosters. That's HALF the conference.

Also, what is your opinion of the Hogs next year? Will we be in the top half of the SEC?
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2017, 09:04:07 am »

Kotsar is awful, which is why Keita probably not much or he would be playing ahead of him. Gravitt can't drive or shoot.

You are really reaching to see a talented roster at SC.

And I think you are going out of your way to discredit the talent they have coming back. Guys get better. Especially when they know it's "their time." Kotsar averaged 6 points and 5 rebounds per game as a freshman and he's awful? We'd be raving if we got that from one of our freshmen. Hell, we are raving about less production from Adrio Bailey.

I think Dozier and Silva will take big jumps as juniors (if they're back), as most players of their level do. I think there is good enough supporting talent to be at least a bubble team. Definitely not willing to just automatically write them off.
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2017, 09:07:47 am »

Oh so you don't think they would have made it this year without Thornwell, but you do next year? I don't. I think you are underestimating the impact that Thornwell has on that team, not only the leader, but he is the best offensive and defensive player on that team, I think without him they don't make it back to the tourney next year.

I know Thornwell wasn't all that great last year as a junior (was not even All-SEC). So why can P.J. Dozier not make a similar jump if he returns? You are underestimating players of Dozier and Silva's caliber's ability to step up when it's their time to shine.
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rude1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2017, 12:05:49 pm »

I know Thornwell wasn't all that great last year as a junior (was not even All-SEC). So why can P.J. Dozier not make a similar jump if he returns? You are underestimating players of Dozier and Silva's caliber's ability to step up when it's their time to shine.
Thornwell averaged 13pts, 5rbs, 4assts and led them in minutes played last year, he was still their best player last year. Thornwell made those other players better around him, I still say when you add Notice & Mckie along with the loss of Thornwell, they take a step back from being a tourney team. Heck they were just a 7 seed with those players. I am not of the opinion that they will fall to the bottom of the conference, they will have a competitive team, just not one IMO that will have enough to make the dance again.
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2017, 12:41:24 pm »

Thornwell averaged 13pts, 5rbs, 4assts and led them in minutes played last year, he was still their best player last year. Thornwell made those other players better around him, I still say when you add Notice & Mckie along with the loss of Thornwell, they take a step back from being a tourney team. Heck they were just a 7 seed with those players. I am not of the opinion that they will fall to the bottom of the conference, they will have a competitive team, just not one IMO that will have enough to make the dance again.

He had a similar season to Dozier this year. You'll hear a lot of talk next year about Dozier making players better, too. If he returns, that is. Seems like 50/50 right now. I figure everyone that returns gets better and they all saw big, big minutes in the NCAA tournament. That is a big enhancement having performed on that high of a level.

I think they could be a 9-11 seed type of team with Dozier and Silva back. Without, probably miss the NIT.
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hhicNaychaBoi

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2017, 06:17:51 am »

P
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riccoar

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2017, 06:36:50 am »

It takes more than luck to reach the Final Four.  The 4th place team in the SEC did it with teamwork and tough defense.  Calipari will never win a title with one and dones, because every game to them is just a showcase of individuality for the NBA lottery.
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Gonzo

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2017, 08:47:34 am »

We call those fair weather fans. The ones who show high levels of support when things are going good and bemoan our programs when things aren't going so well. Good ol fair weather fan, a couple notches above a bandwagon fan

So in other words, the only "real" fans are those for whom things must be all bad or all wonderful all the time?  Those are precisely the extremists the OP was differentiating. Lol, you are one funny poster. Most fans, yes, real fans, are right there in the middle. They realize things are neither perfect nor perfectly wretched. They/we wear our hopes on our sleeves just like every other fan, we get a kick when the Hogs win, get a kick in the gut when they lose, and realize that there is usually both plenty to be appreciated and plenty to be questioned about the program.

I agree with the OP, I thought it was a pretty darn good season, particularly the way they closed given the scare in the middle.


Go Hogs!
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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2017, 10:22:43 am »

I would have agreed with you about Anderson not being able to recruit well enough to win a title, but now I'm watching South Carolina on the precipice of a national title. Martin definitely has some talent on that team, but nothing that Anderson doesn't figure to have in the coming years between Gafford, Perry, and a few others. Think about that for a minute. If a coach has pretty good talent that has bought into the mission and they have enough luck go their way (this cannot be overstated enough, and for EVERY program), he can win it all. Look at how close Butler came....twice. This season in college basketball, not just Arkansas' season (but it's definitely the biggest factor), has really changed my outlook on things and how I should manage my expectations.

Arkansas is currently still being talked in the NCAA tournament because every time North Carolina plays, it gets mentioned how North Carolina had to come back in the last few minutes to beat us.  We are definitely back in the game on a national level. Gonna be on a big stage in the  PK80 early next season.

We earned some respect. Younger kids watching the PK80 will see us in a prestigious event going against some of the most successful programs in NCAA history. That exposure, coupled with a great showing, will do wonders for national recruiting and could pay big dividends in the next 2 to 3 years with serious interest from some big time out of state talent.

Gonna have to be ready to rock at the outset next season and capitalize on this years momentum. Plus, make the top 25 and stay there. This is possible. Just do it.
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zebradynasty

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2017, 10:25:01 am »

I know its probably like this in all states to some degree. But we have some very...fickle fans. We had a very good season we got put out of the NCAAT by the champion or runner up! We have a solid core of experienced players coming back, a solid 2017 recruiting class, and a even better 2018 recruiting class and somehow we are still missing something ??? 

Fans bring up what Nolan done and how he recruited but remember what he said Arkansas is a tough place to recruit. He had to really work to get the few BIG name recruits he did land. I also think it is very insulting and stereotyping when people suggest that the reason Mike can't get the recruits is because he's lazy. You don't win at ALL the levels like Mike has and be lazy it's impossible.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2017, 10:29:01 am »

I know its probably like this in all states to some degree. But we have some very...fickle fans. We had a very good season we got put out of the NCAAT by the champion or runner up! We have a solid core of experienced players coming back, a solid 2017 recruiting class, and a even better 2018 recruiting class and somehow we are still missing something ??? 

Fans bring up what Nolan done and how he recruited but remember what he said Arkansas is a tough place to recruit. He had to really work to get the few BIG name recruits he did land. I also think it is very insulting and stereotyping when people suggest that the reason Mike can't get the recruits is because he's lazy. You don't win at ALL the levels like Mike has and be lazy it's impossible.

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Atlhogfan1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2017, 10:37:33 am »

I know its probably like this in all states to some degree. But we have some very...fickle fans. We had a very good season we got put out of the NCAAT by the champion or runner up! We have a solid core of experienced players coming back, a solid 2017 recruiting class, and a even better 2018 recruiting class and somehow we are still missing something ??? 

Fans bring up what Nolan done and how he recruited but remember what he said Arkansas is a tough place to recruit. He had to really work to get the few BIG name recruits he did land. I also think it is very insulting and stereotyping when people suggest that the reason Mike can't get the recruits is because he's lazy. You don't win at ALL the levels like Mike has and be lazy it's impossible.

It isn't that difficult, or at least shouldn't be, when the state is providing as much help as it is and will in the near future.  It is more difficult to go outside of our region ie Chicago, eastern cities, west coast and pull in highly recruited players with no connection when our brand isn't strong.  Nolan had connections to some of those early "Big" recruits he didn't have to work overly hard to get.  Lee was family, Todd's stepbrother, Corliss in state.  Edgar helped a lot early. 

How are the fans in this thread being fickle?  We had a good season. 
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zebradynasty

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2017, 10:47:32 am »

It isn't that difficult, or at least shouldn't be, when the state is providing as much help as it is and will in the near future.  It is more difficult to go outside of our region ie Chicago, eastern cities, west coast and pull in highly recruited players with no connection when our brand isn't strong.  Nolan had connections to some of those early "Big" recruits he didn't have to work overly hard to get.  Lee was family, Todd's stepbrother, Corliss in state.  Edgar helped a lot early. 

How are the fans in this thread being fickle?  We had a good season.

As been pointed out earlier in the thread Nolan recruiting wasn't just confined to good Arkansas recruits and family contacts. If you think its easy recruiting here ask yourself why every time the job comes up there isn't a LONG list of who's who in college basketball applying. Oh we have rumors of big name coaches really being interested but somehow they NEVER actually apply or get hired...hmmmm wonder why?

Not all fans on this thread but a few... ::)
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2017, 10:58:50 am »

As been pointed out earlier in the thread Nolan recruiting wasn't just confined to good Arkansas recruits and family contacts. If you think its easy recruiting here ask yourself why every time the job comes up there isn't a LONG list of who's who in college basketball applying. Oh we have rumors of big name coaches really being interested but somehow they NEVER actually apply or get hired...hmmmm wonder why?

Not all fans on this thread but a few... ::)

Nolan's recruiting wasn't just confined to Ark recruits or family contacts.  A few of his McD AA difference makers were. 

Everytime the job comes up?  Dumb reply.  It has come up 3 times in 15 years.  First time we had a racial lawsuit hanging over us and made a hire influenced by it.  Second time we hired a successful coach(now F4 coach) away from a good job where his family loved only to have him leave and expose our issues.  Last time we didn't have a search because we made the hire we had to make.  So we have no idea how attractive the job is.  No point in asking now.  Mike will retire here and we will probably move on to TJ or someone else connected to Nolan/Mike.

The job isn't as difficult as Nolan/Mike fans make it out especially when an unprecedented cycle of in state/connected recruits are available as now.  Nolan was not hesitant to complain, whine, play the victim.  He had reasons to at times.  Not saying he didn't.  Mike learned from him. 
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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2017, 11:33:57 am »

The job isn't as difficult as Nolan/Mike fans make it out especially when an unprecedented cycle of in state/connected recruits are available as now. Nolan was not hesitant to complain, whine, play the victimHe had reasons to at times.  Not saying he didn't.  Mike learned from him.

The Nolan/Mike hate is strong with this one.  >:(

Nolan was a fighter. Not a whiner. Not a complainer. Didn't play the victim. He was victimized and lashed out.

You say that Mike learned to complain, whine and play the victim from Nolan. Explain please.
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Swinesong1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2017, 11:40:59 am »

The Nolan/Mike hate is strong with this one.  >:(

Nolan was a fighter. Not a whiner. Not a complainer. Didn't play the victim. He was victimized and lashed out.

You say that Mike learned to complain, whine and play the victim from Nolan. Explain please.
It's hopeless with some of these posters.  Much respect to you for trying tho. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2017, 11:43:39 am »

The Nolan/Mike hate is strong with this one.  >:(

Nolan was a fighter. Not a whiner. Not a complainer. Didn't play the victim. He was victimized and lashed out.

You say that Mike learned to complain, whine and play the victim from Nolan. Explain please.

No hate.  Just not blind love. 

Nolan's recruiting wasn't just confined to Ark recruits or family contacts.  A few of his McD AA difference makers were. 

Everytime the job comes up?  Dumb reply.  It has come up 3 times in 15 years.  First time we had a racial lawsuit hanging over us and made a hire influenced by it.  Second time we hired a successful coach(now F4 coach) away from a good job where his family loved only to have him leave and expose our issues.  Last time we didn't have a search because we made the hire we had to make.  So we have no idea how attractive the job is.  No point in asking now.  Mike will retire here and we will probably move on to TJ or someone else connected to Nolan/Mike.

The job isn't as difficult as Nolan/Mike fans make it out especially when an unprecedented cycle of in state/connected recruits are available as now.  Nolan was not hesitant to complain, whine, play the victim.  He had reasons to at times.  Not saying he didn't.  Mike learned from him. 

I see you didn't bold the part I did.  Only what you wanted to pick out. 

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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2017, 11:50:37 am »

No hate.  Just not blind love. 

I see you didn't bold the part I did.  Only what you wanted to pick out.

Didn't pick out anything. Just reading the paragraph as a whole is just as illuminating. You said what you said and you said what you meant. Pitiful. But at least you put it out there for all to see.
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zebradynasty

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2017, 03:22:25 pm »

Nolan's recruiting wasn't just confined to Ark recruits or family contacts.  A few of his McD AA difference makers were. 

Everytime the job comes up?  Dumb reply.  It has come up 3 times in 15 years.  First time we had a racial lawsuit hanging over us and made a hire influenced by it.  Second time we hired a successful coach(now F4 coach) away from a good job where his family loved only to have him leave and expose our issues.  Last time we didn't have a search because we made the hire we had to make.  So we have no idea how attractive the job is.  No point in asking now.  Mike will retire here and we will probably move on to TJ or someone else connected to Nolan/Mike.

The job isn't as difficult as Nolan/Mike fans make it out especially when an unprecedented cycle of in state/connected recruits are available as now.  Nolan was not hesitant to complain, whine, play the victim.  He had reasons to at times.  Not saying he didn't.  Mike learned from him.

If the job isn't as difficult as Nolan and Mike says then where is the long list of highly qualified coaches that applied or showed serious interest. Heck we can go back to Eddie Sutton! He had a successful career here do you honestly believe Nolan was the first choice for his replacement? Did Sutton bring in a lot of prized recruits? So we have more than good idea how attractive this job is in the world of college basketball going back over 40 years. For a stretch of 5-6 years under Sutton and 10 years under Nolan, Arkansas was a high profile program. Over 40 years Arkansas has NEVER drawn much interest from experienced quality coaches. Why because the idea that this is tough place to recruit. Perception is sometimes reality it might not be as tough as they say but the perception around the country...it is. Nolan and Mike are the only ones hired that really had much of resume to even grant an interview (You can count Dana Altman but that is misleading). 

Maybe you are aware of statements of Mike complaining and playing the victim. I would like to read these statements for myself. If you could please post a link.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2017, 03:38:49 pm »

If the job isn't as difficult as Nolan and Mike says then where is the long list of highly qualified coaches that applied or showed serious interest. Heck we can go back to Eddie Sutton! He had a successful career here do you honestly believe Nolan was the first choice for his replacement? Did Sutton bring in a lot of prized recruits? So we have more than good idea how attractive this job is in the world of college basketball going back over 40 years. For a stretch of 5-6 years under Sutton and 10 years under Nolan, Arkansas was a high profile program. Over 40 years Arkansas has NEVER drawn much interest from experienced quality coaches. Why because the idea that this is tough place to recruit. Perception is sometimes reality it might not be as tough as they say but the perception around the country...it is. Nolan and Mike are the only ones hired that really had much of resume to even grant an interview (You can count Dana Altman but that is misleading). 

Maybe you are aware of statements of Mike complaining and playing the victim. I would like to read these statements for myself. If you could please post a link.

You don't get lists of applicants for major head coaching jobs.  That line of thinking is like White wanting established head coaches to go through a committee process. 

We aren't looking for a coach every year.  Including Sutton's hiring in 1974, we have had 5 coaches.  National searches conducted under normal circumstances during the time between Sutton and now: 2.  One landed us Nolan from Tulsa after Rollie declined.  The second landed us Altman.  After his departure, the search was certainly not indicative of our program hiring from a position of strength.  Heath's hiring was done with a very limited, targeted search.  No search with Mike's hiring.  The only real indications in our modern basketball history of what the program could attract in terms of coaching talent when doing a search under normal conditions at the time of their hiring were Nolan and Altman. 

Sutton did sign some sought after recruits after the Triplets helped get it going.

Rollie was pursued first before Nolan was hired.

http://newsok.com/article/2104708    - 8 days after winning a NC

Post-Nolan has already been discussed.  Altman's willingness to leave his situation in Creighton was an example of the draw of the program.  Before he saw behind the scenes and White refused to allow him to bring in who he wanted to help fix the academic situation.  Had nothing to do with recruiting to Arkansas.  Recruiting to Arkansas isn't as the near impossible task Nolan tried to make it out to be.  Especially not when the state is in a cycle of providing capable players.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 04:32:56 pm by Atlhogfan1 »
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zebradynasty

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2017, 04:09:34 pm »

Sutton was here about 11 years and yes he did bring in a few highly regarded recruits no more so than any coach since him. I'm more inclined to take the word of two college basketball Hall of Famers, Sutton and Nolan and agree with them that it is not being easy recruiting to Arkansas.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2017, 04:27:05 pm »

Sutton was here about 11 years and yes he did bring in a few highly regarded recruits no more so than any coach since him. I'm more inclined to take the word of two college basketball Hall of Famers, Sutton and Nolan and agree with them that it is not being easy recruiting to Arkansas.

Sutton's comments when Arkansas' coach about recruiting to Arkansas were about other programs cheating in recruiting and the challenges that brought and not about recruiting to the UA.  Ironic considering what later happened when he was at UK. 

If your argument is it isn't easy for an Arkansas coach to recruit out of state and region when the program isn't relevant, okay.  When the state is providing help, it makes it easier.  When rare in state talent wants to be Hogs, it is certainly much easier. 
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zebradynasty

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2017, 04:51:45 pm »

Sutton's comments when Arkansas' coach about recruiting to Arkansas were about other programs cheating in recruiting and the challenges that brought and not about recruiting to the UA.  Ironic considering what later happened when he was at UK. 

If your argument is it isn't easy for an Arkansas coach to recruit out of state and region when the program isn't relevant, okay.  When the state is providing help, it makes it easier.  When rare in state talent wants to be Hogs, it is certainly much easier.

In state talent is deeper now than it has ever been. So in that respect it is easier but for most of the history of the program that has not been the case. You might have a crop of kids like the triplets every 10 years or more. I expect in state talent to continue to be on the upswing as the LR Metro area is just about completely a basketball refuge. That brings in another set of problems as other high profile programs will continue to try to swipe a few here and there. So recruiting is never easy but at Arkansas its more difficult.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2017, 08:12:40 am »

Nolan was not hesitant to complain, whine, play the victim.  He had reasons to at times.  Not saying he didn't.  Mike learned from him.

This would be great because, according to Wikipedia:

He led Arkansas to three Final Foursólosing to Duke in the semifinals in 1990, winning the National Championship in 1994 against Duke, and losing in the Championship game to UCLA in 1995. He was named the National Coach of the Year in 1994. Richardson's Arkansas teams averaged 27 wins per season during the decade of the 1990s, they were the winningest team of the decade until 1997, and their 270 wins from 1990 to 1999 were more than all but four programs in the NCAA. Nolan's Arkansas teams recorded a 20 win season twelve times as well as four 30 win seasons during his 17 years.
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2017, 08:21:38 am »

Circling back to an earlier debate in this thread, P.J. Dozier is signing with an agent and will not return to South Carolina. So we'll never know if they could have contended for an NCAA tournament birth with him and Silva leading the way. Major step-back year for the Gamecocks coming without any doubt now.
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MountieDawg

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2017, 08:44:34 am »

I disagree. I think Coach K, Self, and Roy Williams all recruit guys that would stand out at other programs that they know will be in their program for 3-4 years. Calipari doesn't really do that. It's poor roster building. There really can be too much of a good thing. Calipari mostly recruits guys that he knows are only in college for a season. Other coaches don't. They are trying to get maybe 1-2 per year that are one and done and focusing the other spots on guys that are really effing good but not one and done good. And they build depth that way.

Coach K, Self and Roy are all recruiting the same players....  If you can name one coach who would turn down a Top 10 player to add a Top 150 recruit I will show you a coach with that wont be coaching in 2 years.
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2017, 08:49:55 am »

Coach K, Self and Roy are all recruiting the same players....  If you can name one coach who would turn down a Top 10 player to add a Top 150 recruit I will show you a coach with that wont be coaching in 2 years.

Coach K, Bill Self and Roy Williams are all recruiting the same players, I agree. They recruit differently than Calipari.
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mhuff

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2017, 08:59:14 am »

The Nolan/Mike hate is strong with this one.  >:(

Nolan was a fighter. Not a whiner. Not a complainer. Didn't play the victim. He was victimized and lashed out.

You say that Mike learned to complain, whine and play the victim from Nolan. Explain please.

First, Nolan is my all time favorite coach based on coaching ability . However, he did rally his troops with an " Us against the world mentality ." If this was accomplished by whining or complaining ,then he used that to our advantage. He did complain about officiating and was not shy about getting a technical called . This kept the officials in line and kept them from raping us unlike recent years. Perhaps that is what the poster was alluding to but has not responded yet. Sometimes it's a day before I have the time to respond to an opinion.
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lynbug

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2017, 09:45:07 am »

I'm not a MA hater (so FCJ....don't even start).  I was tracking his tweets, posts, etc. long  before he got here, hoping that he would decide to come back.  I still really like MA but....I like the state of affairs of the basketball program MORE.  I want Mike to get us back to the promised land but I'm concerned about the revolving door of players that leaves us scrambling (it seems like every year) to fill several important roles.  Yes, I know this happens at many schools, but I don't think that usually it's some of their best players.  I know that, supposedly, we've got the best of the best in-state recruits coming in and I hope that's true.  But, if it does work out....that must become the rule rather than the exception...IF we want to get back to being a  year-in, year-out top 25 team.  Oh yeah....also going further than the first or second round of the Dance.  JMO...,.not being negative, just trying to be realistic.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2017, 11:10:09 am »

Circling back to an earlier debate in this thread, P.J. Dozier is signing with an agent and will not return to South Carolina. So we'll never know if they could have contended for an NCAA tournament birth with him and Silva leading the way. Major step-back year for the Gamecocks coming without any doubt now.

Actually we had a look at that just this season. They were a .500 for 6 games losing to 2 sorry teams.

They had some serious work to do.
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lynbug

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2017, 12:03:44 pm »

I'm not sure where you have been the last 5-10 years because the BEST players on most teams leave in an attempt to make money somewhere, even Europe.  That's just the way it is in college BB and has been for a while.
Yes, I do understand that phenomenon of college basketball.  It's not just that part of the revolving door that I'm a little concerned with....it's all of it.  If this revolving door of mid-level recruits, jucos in, highly recruited players tranferring out  ( because of not enough PT...whatever), and average transfers in .....if this is what is going on everywhere, so be it...but I want us to be good enough at managing that to get us back to the upper echelon. 
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HotlantaHog

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #81 on: April 17, 2017, 12:07:45 pm »

I agree with the original poster's take. Mike has done a good job but has shown he is hardly elite. And it hasn't taken too much for him to look bad on occasion -- a couple players going to the NBA early, not having every piece he needs for his system ... The down years/games have reduced enthusiasm by the fans, for better or worse.

This year though showed the Hogs were pretty close. I hate to complain about officiating, but the officiating in the UNC game was horrendous or the Hogs really should have won that game, and there is no telling how far they would have gone if they did. Or if they had been matched against Gonzaga or someone else other than UNC ....

I wouldn't have guessed Frank Martin and USC would make it this year either ... Bottom line, while consistent excellence no doubt reflects elite coaches (at say UNC, Duke, Kentucky, etc), making a Final Four during a good year and even winning a championship are within the realm of reasonable outcomes you could expect. Not saying it will happen, but stranger things have happened, and basketball and filled with teams other than the obvious ones excelling.
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Hawg Red

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #82 on: April 17, 2017, 12:10:11 pm »

Actually we had a look at that just this season. They were a .500 for 6 games losing to 2 sorry teams.

They had some serious work to do.

What 2 sorry teams? They lost to Seton Hall (tournament name), Clemson (bubble team), and Memphis. Memphis was bad. Not seeing another bad loss without him. And they lost by 3 and 2 points to Seton Hall and Clemson without him. I think they did okay without him considering.

It also seems like you are not accounting for Dozier, Silva, and the other players getting better from this past season to next season. Keep in mind, no one was claiming a return trip to the Final 4, just contending for an NCAA tournament bid. I think they had the juice to do it. Doesn't matter now, though.
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Darrell Royal's Floating Flaming Fulminating Spectral Head

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2017, 08:25:38 pm »

State of Arkansas basketball is currently mainly reliant on a short run future positive momentum cycle in in-state talent mixed with a recent cycle of reactive recruiting based on a few key players leaving early. Hard to say how consistent and sustainable things will be after the in-state recruits cycle through and for those reasons it's difficult to see long run upside (say sweet 16s in 3 of 5 years) or downside. We just kind of are what we are.
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HognitiveDissonance

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2017, 11:05:45 am »

Sutton was here about 11 years and yes he did bring in a few highly regarded recruits no more so than any coach since him. I'm more inclined to take the word of two college basketball Hall of Famers, Sutton and Nolan and agree with them that it is not being easy recruiting to Arkansas.
I don't discount that premise completely: that it's harder to recruit to Arkansas. But that's mainly because of smaller population and need to recruit out of state more.
But I don't buy that premise completely either. Nolan from 1985-1995 recruited extremely well from out of state, as posted in original thread post.
Stan Heath also didn't have much trouble attracting out of state players here:

Patrick Beverly       Chicago
Darian Towns         Virginia
Steven Hill             Missouri
Charles Thomas     Mississippi
Al Jefferson           Mississippi (national Top 5 player)

I do consider Anderson a better coach than Heath, but below him as a recruiter.

Actually the best comparison for Anderson is Sutton, not his mentor, Nolan.
I considered Sutton a great coach, but I never thought he was a great recruiter.
He obviously had the Triplets, and you can't say those don't count just because they were instate because you still have to convince them, but they're still Arkie kids.
Really, Eddie made a living, besides the great Triplets, from jucos and transfers, cobbled together with role players.

Joe Kleine          transfer from Notre Dame
Alvin Robertson  juco
Darrell Walker    juco
Tony Brown       juco
William Mills      transfer from Tennessee

His best recruit was probably Kenny Hutchinson, who turned out ok, but was a hotshot PG from New York City.

Compare that now to Anderson:

Bobby Portis      Arkie kid
Dusty Hannahs  transfer from Texas Tech
Jaylen Barford   juco
Daryl  Macon     juco

Best recruit imho so far has been Moses Kingsley, who had offers from Louisville and Florida.

Sound familiar?

Neither guy is strong enough as a recruiter to mine high school kids who have options, so they're relying on instate kids and the transfer/juco route.
Eddie was good enough to put together 9 straight NCAA teams out of that coalition, but the recruiting and talent level usually wasn't deep enough to go very far.

I still come back to original post, if you want to make deep runs in the NCAAs, you need to recruit with the big boys more often. It's hard to go deep without that raw talent, otherwise you're having to piece together teams with band-aids. In the past 40 years, we've seen two guys recruit well enough at that level--Heath and Richardson. One of them was also a good coach, the other not so much.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: State of the Hogs: My take
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2017, 03:27:12 pm »

One of them was also a good coach, the other not so much.

One of them was a Naismith Hall of Fame coach. The other shouldn't be in the same sentence with him when it comes to coaching ability.

This isn't an apples to oranges comparison. It's an apple to a steaming cow pie.
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