What is missing from Razorback athletics?

[plumbhog]

great recruits that will WIN!

Like the great recruits we use to get from little rock back when we played in little rock?

[OS2 (SW) Razor Back]

TALENT

[lutherheggs]

Just your fantasy. It's idiotic. Drop it. Not going to tolerate liars.

It is called an opinion. Obviously not fact but if you have common sense, you know this is very possible. If you take it as fact, then your sensibility is suspect. Try to remain calm. Calling me a liar is silliness.

[ChitownHawg]

If we consider the $$$ implications surrounding college football as a whole...at the time of realization (couple years ago) it did surprise me. We are talking about a multi-billion dollar, cut throat industry.

Here's a good question...what other schools in our division do you think place education first in front of their football program?

Considering my degree states "University of Arkansas" I really don't care what the other schools are doing.

The last half of CBB's time here has him ranked 3rd, so there is emphasis on winning.

Jeff Long has made a $35 mil profit last year, so he seems to be managing the program well.

[LZH]

Considering my degree states "University of Arkansas" I really don't care what the other schools are doing.

The last half of CBB's time here has him ranked 3rd, so there is emphasis on winning.

Jeff Long has made a $35 mil profit last year, so he seems to be managing the program well.

Mathletes.....

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Wood, of course they do not say it out loud. Do you think they are self-abusing morons? But they will not change anything to make much of a difference as long as no one fusses or bothers them. They are fine with what they have done and will continue to talk a big game until they realize the bar is raised and they have to jump over it or lose their jobs. It is not a complex situation or issue.

I think that this is a delusional viewpoint. Arkansas isn't going to be forever happy with winning 7-8 games each year. The point will come sometime in the next 2 years that if we do not do better than this in football that there will be a new HC on the hill.

Now the reality is that we are a program that most of the time will be a 7-8 win team each year. If Bielema wants to keep his job that win total has to be bumped up to 9 or 10 wins these next 2 years. If he doesn't do that we will be looking for a new coach, who will come in here and on average, produce the same 7-8 wins with a few 9-10 wins seasons and a few 6-6 seasons sprinkled in over time.

Why is this the reality (IMO)? Because we don't bend (understatement) the rules of recruiting to the extent that some of our SEC brethren do when they go after talent. As long as we try to play it on the up-and-up as all schools should, we aren't going to climb into the rarified air of double digit wins every year.

This however doesn't mean that Arkansas is going to be willing to stand pat on 7-8 win seasons every year. If it stays this way with Bielema, there will be change.

[ChitownHawg]

Mathletes.....

I like that - mathletes.

Considering 90%(?) of the 100 man team doesn't make it to the NFL, being a mathlete isn't bad. Nothing sadder than seeing a former athlete, like C Cobb, who doesn't have the education to make it outside sports.

[LZH]

I like that - mathletes.

Considering 90%(?) of the 100 man team doesn't make it to the NFL, being a mathlete isn't bad. Nothing sadder than seeing a former athlete, like C Cobb, who doesn't have the education to make it outside sports.

C'mon man, you never watched "Mean Girls" with your daughter? I was trying to poke fun at you....

[ChitownHawg]

C'mon man, you never watched "Mean Girls" with your daughter? I was trying to poke fun at you....

I don't have a daughter, but I did watch Mean Girls. Not sure what that says about my manhood? 

And I always know your posts are meant for fun. Your humor flies over some people's head, but I'm sarcastic enough to enjoy it. 

[factchecker]

What is missing from Razorback athletics?

Slobberin Hog

Coca-Cola

and

[LZH]

I don't have a daughter, but I did watch Mean Girls. Not sure what that says about my manhood? 

And I always know your posts are meant for fun. Your humor flies over some people's head, but I'm sarcastic enough to enjoy it. 

My bad, for some reason I thought you had a daughter. But hey, nothing wrong with watching Mean Girls even if you don't have a daughter. Rachel McAdams in a short skirt is not a bad movie at all.

[bphi11ips]

 Failure to make NCAA tournaments and the failure to have any meaningful impact in the SEC West has something  to do with it. However, I believe the erosion of support in the fanbase  starts with leadership at the top. Frank Broyles ran the athletics program as if it was an Arkansas institution. Jeff Long runs the  program like a business. The fan base now views the program as a business.

The beauty of college athletics has always been its amateur status. When the program was viewed as the face of a small, poor state, it was supported win or lose. When the program is viewed as a business, fans will only support it when it is winning.

[ChitownHawg]

Failure to make NCAA tournaments and the failure to have any meaningful impact in the SEC West has something  to do with it. However, I believe the erosion of support in the fanbase  starts with leadership at the top. Frank Broyles ran the athletics program as if it was an Arkansas institution. Jeff Long runs the  program like a business. The fan base now views the program as a business.

The beauty of college athletics has always been its amateur status. When the program was viewed as the face of a small, poor state, it was supported win or lose. When the program is viewed as a business, fans will only support it when it is winning.

What are you basing this "erosion" on? Donations, ticket sales, what?

[LRRandy]

Failure to make NCAA tournaments and the failure to have any meaningful impact in the SEC West has something  to do with it. However, I believe the erosion of support in the fanbase  starts with leadership at the top. Frank Broyles ran the athletics program as if it was an Arkansas institution. Jeff Long runs the  program like a business. The fan base now views the program as a business.

The beauty of college athletics has always been its amateur status. When the program was viewed as the face of a small, poor state, it was supported win or lose. When the program is viewed as a business, fans will only support it when it is winning.

to go along with the alienation of a large portion of the fan base and the splintering effect that gleefully pulling games out of the largest population area in a small population state. The folks that look down their nose at WMS, counting the days until there are no more games in central Arkansas are beginning to see the effects of their fracturing actions. Winning would change all of that. The mediocrity that has a stranglehold on the athletics program however has made it easy for many folks to be apathetic. They don't care about me. Ok. I don't care about them.

[ricepig]

to go along with the alienation of a large portion of the fan base and the splintering effect that gleefully pulling games out of the largest population area in a small population state. The folks that look down their nose at WMS, counting the days until there are no more games in central Arkansas are beginning to see the effects of their fracturing actions. Winning would change all of that. The mediocrity that has a stranglehold on the athletics program however has made it easy for many folks to be apathetic. They don't care about me. Ok. I don't care about them.

Nobody cares about tOSU here, why are you here?

[LZH]

to go along with the alienation of a large portion of the fan base and the splintering effect that gleefully pulling games out of the largest population area in a small population state. The folks that look down their nose at WMS, counting the days until there are no more games in central Arkansas are beginning to see the effects of their fracturing actions. Winning would change all of that. The mediocrity that has a stranglehold on the athletics program however has made it easy for many folks to be apathetic. They don't care about me. Ok. I don't care about them.

They are going to end up asking fewer and fewer people to pay more and more. Well hell, actually they have already started.

[ricepig]

They are going to end up asking fewer and fewer people to pay more and more. Well hell, actually they have already started.

Was the stadium full on your visit?

[factchecker]

What are you basing this "erosion" on? Donations, ticket sales, what?

Online hyperbole

They are going to end up asking fewer and fewer people to pay more and more. Well hell, actually they have already started.

https://twitter.com/wholehogsports/status/809907248105406464

[LZH]

Was the stadium full on your visit?

I was talking about the fan base. 76000 people cannot support that program.

[factchecker]

I was talking about the fan base. 76000 people cannot support that program.

So donations have decreased substantially?

Link?

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Leadership. Todays youth/younger generation have no idea what a storied/powerful "sleeping giant" we are. We are told that we can't do this, we can't achieve that cause of our location,place in the SEC higherarchy(I know there's my spelling again), recruiting base, our this n that....... Maybe a course should be mandatory in gradeschool n Jr. high.

[LZH]

So donations have decreased substantially?

Link?

What? Where did I say that? I said fewer people are going to need to spend more money.

[bphi11ips]

What are you basing this "erosion" on? Donations, ticket sales, what?

Fifty years of experience.

Online hyperbole

https://twitter.com/wholehogsports/status/809907248105406464

Hogville is a weathervane, whether you acknowledge it or not. The fanbase is fractured, and the Razorbacks no longer inspire an entire state generation after generation.  Not all things are quantifiable through statistics.

[ricepig]

I was talking about the fan base. 76000 people cannot support that program.

I didn't realize we had dropped down to that many fans. Our people complaining about the football and basketball seasons, sure, but I haven't talked to a single person who has season tickets that said they weren't renewing. I'm sure there will be several, just as I'm sure there will be several new one's, too.

[factchecker]

Fifty years of experience.

Hogville is a weathervane, whether you acknowledge it or not. The fanbase is fractured, and the Razorbacks no longer inspire an entire state generation after generation.  Not all things are quantifiable through statistics.

Maybe the only thing fractured is your ego.  You have always been a soured fan who loves the city of Little Rock more than the Razorbacks.

You have zero evidence of an eroding fanbase.  More fans are attending games.  Contributions are up.  If we continue to perform poorly on the field then I would expect decreasing returns.  However, all it would take would be a sliver of success and the bandwagon will be full.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

The same people giving all these stats/figures were prolly the ones (like most all propaganda machines) most all media out there who guaranteed with out a doubt, no other way, that Hilary would without question be our next president.

[Inhogswetrust]

Fifty years of experience.

Hogville is a weathervane, whether you acknowledge it or not. The fanbase is fractured, and the Razorbacks no longer inspire an entire state generation after generation.  Not all things are quantifiable through statistics.

Show us one fan base that isn't fractured to some degree. Some more than others I'd agree BUT all have fans that disagree with each other and things some coaches and AD's do.

[LRRandy]

Nobody cares about tOSU here, why are you here?

seems you're the only one posting about tOSU. Trying to suppress a viewpoint different from yours comrade? This is a free country.

[factchecker]

The same people giving all these stats/figures were prolly the ones (like most all propaganda machines) most all media out there who guaranteed with out a doubt, no other way, that Hilary would without question be our next president.

Nope.  I go to the games.  I haven't missed a home game in 15 years.  The only games I missed last season was TCU and Auburn.  Drove all the way to Charlotte for that wonderful game.  I can tell you which games were well attended.  Which games had patches of empty seats in the corners etc.  The worst attended games I went to was AT Mizzou followed up with the Alcorn State game in Little Rock.

The biggest complainers about attendance don't go to the games.  Do you?

[LZH]

I didn't realize we had dropped down to that many fans. Our people complaining about the football and basketball seasons, sure, but I haven't talked to a single person who has season tickets that said they weren't renewing. I'm sure there will be several, just as I'm sure there will be several new one's, too.

My kinfolks in Little Rock for one. They have been Wild Hogs for a couple of decades, but when the Little Rock game is gone, so are they. He did mention that they may donate the minimum required to keep their tickets, but they are nearing 60 and I don't think they care to be on the road that much anymore.... they have grandchildren now.

Southeast Arkansas has been choked off to some extent. And not just because of the GSD. Gotta remember, lots of rednecks in that area. When Petrino was fired there were a lot of casualties just because they thought he should have been retained. I can name lots of people that felt that way. And quite a few of them are WMS season-ticket holders.

[Inhogswetrust]

Like the great recruits we use to get from little rock back when we played in little rock?

If playing in LR is based solely on the number of good athletes we get from LR proportionally they should have quit playing there a long time ago.

[Inhogswetrust]

My kinfolks in Little Rock for one. They have been Wild Hogs for a couple of decades, but when the Little Rock game is gone, so are they. He did mention that they may donate the minimum required to keep their tickets, but they are nearing 60 and I don't think they care to be on the road that much anymore.... they have grandchildren now.

Southeast Arkansas has been choked off to some extent. And not just because of the GSD. Gotta remember, lots of rednecks in that area. When Petrino was fired there were a lot of casualties just because they thought he should have been retained. I can name lots of people that felt that way. And quite a few of them are WMS season-ticket holders.

I will be 60 this July. I donate and have season tickets in both places. I live in a Memphis, TN suburb. I'd MUCH rather drive to games in Fayetteville. I also have grandchildren. IF I didn't go to the games I'd spend those same  discretionary dollars on traveling somewhere.   

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Nope.  I go to the games.  I haven't missed a home game in 15 years.  The only games I missed last season was TCU and Auburn.  Drove all the way to Charlotte for that wonderful game.  I can tell you which games were well attended.  Which games had patches of empty seats in the corners etc.  The worst attended games I went to was AT Mizzou followed up with the Alcorn State game in Little Rock.

The biggest complainers about attendance don't go to the games.  Do you?

First off. I've prolly traveled to more away games in my life than you could ever imagine and I made one statement bout donations,ticket sales... hope it hasn't changed the topic from whats missing from Razorback athletics. Hope the topic of conversation gets back to the real issue which BHp touched on. Lack of Frank Broyles type leadership. Please don't mention our current AD's name and Franks in the same post.

[LZH]

I will be 60 this July. I donate and have season tickets in both places. I live in a Memphis, TN suburb. I'd MUCH rather drive to games in Fayetteville. I also have grandchildren. IF I didn't go to the games I'd spend those same  discretionary dollars on traveling somewhere.   

Then you would have to take that up with them.

[factchecker]

Please don't mention our current AD's name and Franks in the same post.

Nobody should ever compare ANY athletic director to Frank.  Coach Broyles is the architect.

[LZH]

I made one statement bout donations,ticket sales... hope it hasn't changed the topic from whats missing from Razorback athletics.

You and me both, cuz. I made one innocuous comment and everybody gets defensive. I am in between conversations all while trying to keep up with my movie, dammit.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

 :razorback:

Nobody should ever compare ANY athletic director to Frank.  Coach Broyles is the architect.

Do you even know why he had all the games played for many years in the daytime? In that answer  is the real answer to the OP's question! :razorback:

[Inhogswetrust]

First off. I've prolly traveled to more away games in my life than you could ever imagine and I made one statement bout donations,ticket sales... hope it hasn't changed the topic from whats missing from Razorback athletics. Hope the topic of conversation gets back to the real issue which BHp touched on. Lack of Frank Broyles type leadership. Please don't mention our current AD's name and Franks in the same post.

IF we had the same type or style of AD leadership as Frank used to have we would be in trouble. Times change. Frank was great for his time and he deserves ALL the accolades for what he did in building Razorback Athletics. But that's like saying a company started and ran by an entrepreneur should always have that same type of leadership as it gets older and bigger. It doesn't always work out that way.

[Inhogswetrust]

Nobody should ever compare ANY athletic director to Frank.  Coach Broyles is the architect.

Just because he was able to do what he did at Arkansas doesn't mean it would have worked everywhere. There are a whole lot of variables and different people involved that could have been different somewhere else.

[LZH]

:razorback:Do you even know why he had all the games played for many years in the daytime? In that answer  is the real answer to the OP's question! :razorback:

*hand raised*

I do! Ooh, pick me, pick me!

[Hogs-n-Roses]

IF we had the same type or style of AD leadership as Frank used to have we would be in trouble. Times change. Frank was great for his time and he deserves ALL the accolades for what he did in building Razorback Athletics. But that's like saying a company started and ran by an entrepreneur should always have that same type of leadership as it gets older and bigger. It doesn't always work out that way.

No doubt Frank stayed on to long and made some strange decisions(Nutt era).Should have stepped aside 10-12 years earlier. Couple of Monday nights ago that should have been our National championship, not Clemsons.

[Inhogswetrust]

Then you would have to take that up with them.

Everyone has to make decisions for themselves. But that doesn't mean that playing or not in WMS should extrapolate that as everyone gets older they don't want to travel elsewhere for games or not. As a matter of fact I'd bet a lot of younger one's now as they get older and don't remember games there will ask why we DID play there before.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

*hand raised*

I do! Ooh, pick me, pick me!

your up but wait n see if he knows the answer
I'll envoke a time limit so research don't come into play.

[factchecker]

Just because he was able to do what he did at Arkansas doesn't mean it would have worked everywhere. There are a whole lot of variables and different people involved that could have been different somewhere else.

I was speaking in more of reverence rather than analytics.  His methods may or might not work now-a-days but what Frank did for the Razorbacks and the University of Arkansas was nothing short of amazing.

The one thing I miss is hearing him speak.  I was lucky enough to hear him talk at my nieces graduation in the spring of 2015.  He received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters degree from the University of Arkansas that day.

[Hogs-n-Roses]

OK LZH, go ahead n answer.

[factchecker]

your up but wait n see if he knows the answer

We didn't have lights in Fayetteville until the 90s.

[Inhogswetrust]

I was speaking in more of reverence rather than analytics.  His methods may or might not work now-a-days but what Frank did for the Razorbacks and the University of Arkansas was nothing short of amazing.

The one thing I miss is hearing him speak.  I was lucky enough to hear him talk at my nieces graduation in the spring of 2015.  He received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters degree from the University of Arkansas that day.

Frank is the classic "being the right person in the right place at the right time".

[LZH]

your up but wait n see if he knows the answer
I'll envoke a time limit so research don't come into play.

Ha!

[Hogs-n-Roses]

We didn't have lights in Fayetteville until the 90s.

We didn't have lights in Fayetteville until the 90s.

You didn't answer the question. Why didn't we have those lights till the 90's?

[factchecker]

You didn't answer the question. Why didn't we have those lights till the 90's?

We didn't need them.  We played most of our prime time games in Little Rock.

WMS was as much..... actually more of our home stadium than on campus Razorback Stadium.