Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information

How good can next years basketball team be?

Started by Modsquad24, April 21, 2006, 03:32:38 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

allyoucaneatbuffet

Pearl's UT team also has 2 projected NBA picks for 2007: Major Wingate and Chris Lofton, and CJ Watson will probably go to the D-league - that's why it didn't take him 4 years

(oh, and also, UT plays in the SECLeast --- a much easier schedule -- and seeing as how they finished up 4th in the west, losing to LSWho, Bama, and us, i'd say they are happy to be in the east)

www.nbadraft.net - check the 2007 mock draft, though it changes often

DunkIt

Wow, they have Major Wingate listed as a draft pick.  He isn't bad, but he shouldn't be anywhere near the NBA.  He is still way better than anyone we had in the post Heath's first two years here.  He is way better than Gomez or Lane or Satchell, and was a whole lot better than Rashard Sullivan or Billy Pharis.  Which, I might add, he inherited every one of those guys other than Pharis, and at the time, Pharis was the best thing out there we could get in an emergency role.

Notice how Felton (the past two years, had a great roster his first season), Lebo haven't had great success thus far either Swino?  Rebuilding is a process.  It takes something called time.  Remember that Heath also came in under the 5/8 as well, so the fact that he had five incoming players, including Richardson's 3 (Modica turned out good, but Mukubu and Sullivan), and then he signed Ferg and Davis (Both very late), actually hurt him the year he signed Olu, Brewer, and Hunter to three scholarships.  It slowed the building process.  I am not making excuses for the fact that he won 21 games his first two seasons.  I am merely saying I understand that rebuilding a program takes time, and it is clear that you do not Mr. Swino.

 

Sanctified Swine

Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

Richard_white

Quote from: Sanctified Swine on April 24, 2006, 12:23:52 am
Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

I would say fire Stan Heath right now but that would be to easy.

I will say Heath isn't a SEC coach BUT (before you huggers get crazy) I am willing to give this High School coach another year.

DunkIt

Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 12:52:54 am
Quote from: Sanctified Swine on April 24, 2006, 12:23:52 am
Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

I would say fire Stan Heath right now but that would be to easy.

I will say Heath isn't a SEC coach BUT (before you huggers get crazy) I am willing to give this High School coach another year.

Hey, I just thought of an irony.  The most celebrated coach on campus right now, is a high school coach, but yet a coach who has successfully rebuilt a program into a conference contender, is being accused of being a high school coach.  And unlike Nutt BD, if we like Heath, we aren't "huggers" because we actually have ground to stand on.  We support our up and coming program and its so far successful leader.

Richard_white

Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:33:51 am
Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 12:52:54 am
Quote from: Sanctified Swine on April 24, 2006, 12:23:52 am
Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

I would say fire Stan Heath right now but that would be to easy.

I will say Heath isn't a SEC coach BUT (before you huggers get crazy) I am willing to give this High School coach another year.

Hey, I just thought of an irony.  The most celebrated coach on campus right now, is a high school coach, but yet a coach who has successfully rebuilt a program into a conference contender, is being accused of being a high school coach.  And unlike Nutt BD, if we like Heath, we aren't "huggers" because we actually have ground to stand on.  We support our up and coming program and its so far successful leader.

He has to many x's and o's to fix for me to give him anything higher than that.

DunkIt

Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 01:37:12 am
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:33:51 am
Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 12:52:54 am
Quote from: Sanctified Swine on April 24, 2006, 12:23:52 am
Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

I would say fire Stan Heath right now but that would be to easy.

I will say Heath isn't a SEC coach BUT (before you huggers get crazy) I am willing to give this High School coach another year.

Hey, I just thought of an irony.  The most celebrated coach on campus right now, is a high school coach, but yet a coach who has successfully rebuilt a program into a conference contender, is being accused of being a high school coach.  And unlike Nutt BD, if we like Heath, we aren't "huggers" because we actually have ground to stand on.  We support our up and coming program and its so far successful leader.

He has to many x's and o's to fix for me to give him anything higher than that.

The improvment year after year speaks for itself.  I am not going to say he is a perfect coach, but as I have said previously, the program is in the right direction, and until we have any indication that we will take a step back, I am on board.  BD, you can argue with his XOs, his gameplanning, his game managment, but after all it is what the numbers say at the end of games and seasons which we judge the coach by.  Not whether or not we agree with how he coaches or who he plays.  As long as we are in the 20+, 22+, eventually the 25+ range year after year, with some deeper post season runs, both SEC and NCAA, I will be satisfied.  He has now made the NCAA, in the next two trips, he should be expected to go further.

Richard_white

Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:46:38 am
Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 01:37:12 am
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:33:51 am
Quote from: BD 07 on April 24, 2006, 12:52:54 am
Quote from: Sanctified Swine on April 24, 2006, 12:23:52 am
Good grief Swino -- quit your blind spewing. Dunkit makes tremendous points about the improvement of hogball over the last 4 years. We tied for second in the west! We are steadily passing up other teams. The proof of improvment is in the 10-6 conference record this. We missed on some really close ones as well. Why can't some people see that we have a good thing in the making! Its blind hate and some people will just be that way I suppose. Nothing ever will be good enough. Must suck to be you....

I would say fire Stan Heath right now but that would be to easy.

I will say Heath isn't a SEC coach BUT (before you huggers get crazy) I am willing to give this High School coach another year.

Hey, I just thought of an irony.  The most celebrated coach on campus right now, is a high school coach, but yet a coach who has successfully rebuilt a program into a conference contender, is being accused of being a high school coach.  And unlike Nutt BD, if we like Heath, we aren't "huggers" because we actually have ground to stand on.  We support our up and coming program and its so far successful leader.

He has to many x's and o's to fix for me to give him anything higher than that.

The improvment year after year speaks for itself.  I am not going to say he is a perfect coach, but as I have said previously, the program is in the right direction, and until we have any indication that we will take a step back, I am on board.  BD, you can argue with his XOs, his gameplanning, his game managment, but after all it is what the numbers say at the end of games and seasons which we judge the coach by.  Not whether or not we agree with how he coaches or who he plays.  As long as we are in the 20+, 22+, eventually the 25+ range year after year, with some deeper post season runs, both SEC and NCAA, I will be satisfied.  He has now made the NCAA, in the next two trips, he should be expected to go further.

I agree with you Dunkit +1

I do believe Stan deserves another year or 2 and I willing to get off his back.  I will say I am keeping an eye on him (like that would do anything) and give time to develop this team he has.

DunkIt

Wow, me and BD agreed on something.  Should we throw a party! Just kidding man.  I don't even think we should put a time frame on him at this point.  You can't put a time frame on someone until there is a temptation to fire him, and right now, there shouldn't be one.

I just think that you all need to stop saying rediculous things like Heath isn't a college coach, or is a DII coach.  He is obviously a DI coach.  Heck a mid-major conference voted the guy COY.  He isn't bad at what he does.
:razorback:

Richard_white

People on here have confused me of hating our current coaches.  I will say that there is no hate in me with anyone (including huggers).  I know Stan is a great guy and one day he will become a good coach. I saw the Florida game and Alabama and I was brought back to the days of Arkansas winning. 

Okay enough with this stuff.

Butch Davis 07

Ugly Uncle

Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:53:09 am
Wow, me and BD agreed on something.  Should we throw a party! Just kidding man.  I don't even think we should put a time frame on him at this point.  You can't put a time frame on someone until there is a temptation to fire him, and right now, there shouldn't be one.

I just think that you all need to stop saying rediculous things like Heath isn't a college coach, or is a DII coach.  He is obviously a DI coach.  Heck a mid-major conference voted the guy COY.  He isn't bad at what he does.
:razorback:

My problem with Heath isn't actually with Heath.  It is with the people that didn't get us someone that was ready to be an SEC coach. I think Heath is learning and growing into the position.  Bucknell was just an inexcusable loss IMO (mostly because I blew so much money for the trip down there).  You see our team getting better...you see our coach getting better.  One day Heath will be an above average coach.  He may even be a very good coach.  I hope he becomes that here.  I'm just really tired of waiting.  Next year will have to show improvement again...or I'm afraid Heath will be sent packing.
Retired Radio Host

HognotinMemphis

I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

Hollywood_HOGan

yeah from reading some of theses posts, you'd think we have actually gotten worse.

If people would just take a little peak at our actual record, it might make a little sense that Heath is actually IMPROVING his program.

Call me crazy but I'll take 10-6 over 6-10 any day of the week.

 

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: Hollywood_HOGan on April 24, 2006, 09:17:36 am
yeah from reading some of theses posts, you'd think we have actually gotten worse.

If people would just take a little peak at our actual record, it might make a little sense that Heath is actually IMPROVING his program.

Call me crazy but I'll take 10-6 over 6-10 any day of the week.

Yeah, count me in for some of that. And I'll take a loss to Bucknell in the first round of the NCAAT over declining an invite to the NIT any day. Did I just say that?
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

SultanofSwine

How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Bad_Intentions

Didn't we jerk Chris Lofton's scholly and give it to Jefferson? I thought that was the case.

anyway, I tend to be more on the positive side. I think Ronnie Brewer's decision will have a big impact. We're going to be very, very good if he comes back and that's all we need, one big season. If he doesn't, there's still a lot of talent on the Hill. I wouldn't expect much more than an NCAA bubble team if he leaves, but I think this team would be a very legit threat the next season when all the big guys are seniors. I think we're doing pretty good. Heath's continously brought in solid classes and we've improved every season. I agree that we don't really have an identity though. I've watched every second of every game that's been on TV and a couple at BWA, and I still really couldn't tell you what our style is.

Overall though, we're doing good. Heath's a young guy with one year of HC experience prior to Arkansas, so there will be some growing pains with him and there have been. I'm expecting to see that less and less with each passing season. He's a wonderful person, a very good recruiter and I really do believe we're back on our way.
WPS!!

DunkIt

April 24, 2006, 12:15:28 pm #66 Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 12:18:27 pm by DunkIt
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Is everyone who has moderater/administrator status on this board a Heath hater?  You know what Sultan, you might be right, but in the end, it is those wins and losses that get a coach fired, or get you to the tournament or the final four, or whatever.  Also, I will put those numbers out there again Sultan in case you haven't read them.  Our very sporadic defense as you call it, was fourth in a very good league in both FG% and ppg.  You can say whatever you want, but in reality, the improvment that actually matters, wins and losses, because after all, even if it is ugly, you can't complain if we go 25 wins next year with 12 in the SEC, Heath has improved. I know you will hate it in the process, because after all, I believe it has been shown that Sultan and Swino both hate progress, because when it occurs, all they do is complain about the fact that the success either doesn't look pretty, or isn't fast enough for them.  What they fail to take into account is a reality of college basketball called the other teams are good too, and doing it pretty, and jumping the other teams is a slower process than they would like.

No Bad_intentions, Jefferson was a late get after that other Jefferson told us he was going straight to the NBA.  Lofton was an early recruit, who no one, including Kentucky, Florida, and Alabama, believed could play at the SEC level.  Turns out that sometimes, even the best programs are wrong.  Sort of the opposite of the Olu scenario.

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 12:15:28 pm
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Is everyone who has moderater/administrator status on this board a Heath hater?  You know what Sultan, you might be right, but in the end, it is those wins and losses that get a coach fired, or get you to the tournament or the final four, or whatever.  Also, I will put those numbers out there again Sultan in case you haven't read them.  Our very sporadic defense as you call it, was fourth in a very good league in both FG% and ppg.  You can say whatever you want, but in reality, the improvment that actually matters, wins and losses, because after all, even if it is ugly, you can't complain if we go 25 wins next year with 12 in the SEC, Heath has improved. I know you will hate it in the process, because after all, I believe it has been shown that Sultan and Swino both hate progress, because when it occurs, all they do is complain about the fact that the success either doesn't look pretty, or isn't fast enough for them.  What they fail to take into account is a reality of college basketball called the other teams are good too, and doing it pretty, and jumping the other teams is a slower process than they would like.

No Bad_intentions, Jefferson was a late get after that other Jefferson told us he was going straight to the NBA.  Lofton was an early recruit, who no one, including Kentucky, Florida, and Alabama, believed could play at the SEC level.  Turns out that sometimes, even the best programs are wrong.  Sort of the opposite of the Olu scenario.

Stan?
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

DunkIt

April 24, 2006, 01:36:08 pm #68 Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 01:42:27 pm by DunkIt
Quote from: Fresh Legs on April 24, 2006, 12:36:07 pm
Quote from: HoginMemphis on April 24, 2006, 12:34:05 pm
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 12:15:28 pm
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Is everyone who has moderater/administrator status on this board a Heath hater?  You know what Sultan, you might be right, but in the end, it is those wins and losses that get a coach fired, or get you to the tournament or the final four, or whatever.  Also, I will put those numbers out there again Sultan in case you haven't read them.  Our very sporadic defense as you call it, was fourth in a very good league in both FG% and ppg.  You can say whatever you want, but in reality, the improvment that actually matters, wins and losses, because after all, even if it is ugly, you can't complain if we go 25 wins next year with 12 in the SEC, Heath has improved. I know you will hate it in the process, because after all, I believe it has been shown that Sultan and Swino both hate progress, because when it occurs, all they do is complain about the fact that the success either doesn't look pretty, or isn't fast enough for them.  What they fail to take into account is a reality of college basketball called the other teams are good too, and doing it pretty, and jumping the other teams is a slower process than they would like.

No Bad_intentions, Jefferson was a late get after that other Jefferson told us he was going straight to the NBA.  Lofton was an early recruit, who no one, including Kentucky, Florida, and Alabama, believed could play at the SEC level.  Turns out that sometimes, even the best programs are wrong.  Sort of the opposite of the Olu scenario.

Stan?

Stanley Fresh Legs it is.  Still trying to cram that Big 10 style of ball down our throats and trying to fool us by stating that progress is getting your butt kicked by a school named Bucknell who had three scholarships to give to their basketball team. 

Alright, apparently progress isn't good then.  According to Fresh Legs, every coach who doesn't make the sweet 16, ought to be fired every year.  First, if your team in consistantly in the 20-25 mark, that is success according to almost every program in America.  Seriously, i can't even respond to this, because it is so ignorant of every measure of basketball, that it makes explaining anything to you, totally pointless.  The 8-10-12 example isn't viable, because when you jump from 12 to 18, and then 18-22, that is far more signifiant that what you mentioned.  Well, what you said about winning pretty just shows how stupid the fans are.  The fans have one job, support the team, and let the coaches do the coaching and the players do the playing.  As long as there is positive results, and on the whole there have been, the fans have one job, so do that.  The fact of the matter is, that the two sec teams who did play ugly basketball, MADE IT TO THE FINAL FOUR THIS YEAR.  Could LSU shoot? Heck no! They just threw it on the glass because when they shot it, often times, it wasn't going in, and told Glen, Tyrus, and Tasmin go get it, and put it in.  They had one guy who could make enough shots to keep it honest in Darrell Mitchell, but their best offense was the O-Board.  What was Florida's strong point, especially down the stretch.  The front court.  While Humphrey, Green, and Brewer were all pretty good and key cogs in the NC run, Horford and Noah killed people on the glass, and actually propelled Noah, someone who wasn't on the map preseason, to a top 5 draft pick should he go out this year.  Moss and Richard beat people up too.  So if you want to know, maybe while ugly basketball isn't the most fun to watch, it isn't unsuccsessful.  Whether or not Hatfield got fired, who cares?  Stan can only do one thing, win basketball games and further progress the program.  If people like you, who want to see it pretty, he can't help that.  He just has to keep doing, what he is doing.  Further, at some point, he technically can't improve the win total much anymore.  We will be playing two fewer games next year.  Winning 25 games out of 27 will be awful tough won't it?  We will be playing 11 NC games instated of 13 next year.  I don't expect 25-2 heading into the SEC.  That wouldn't be improvement, that would be awesome.  I would say a fair expectation would be 9-2 in NC, especially with a road game at Texas built in, and an 11-5 campaign heading into the SEC.  I think the semis of the SEC would be awful nice, maybe a trip to the finals, and a second round birth in the NCAA.  If that happened, I would be quite pleased.  A lot of it is luck.

Hollywood_HOGan

Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement.

You may not want to believe this but a HUGE measuring stick is called those numbers beside the W and that little number beside the L column.

Heath haters are going on just blind hate for Coach Heath.

10-6 > 6-10


DunkIt

Quote from: Hollywood_HOGan on April 24, 2006, 01:41:57 pm
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement.

You may not want to believe this but a HUGE measuring stick is called those numbers beside the W and that little number beside the L column.

Heath haters are going on just blind hate for Coach Heath.

10-6 > 6-10



I don't know if I want to say all that, because 7-9 was also better than 6-10.  I do think though, that the plateau that any successful program needs to be on is the 20 win and 10 conference win plateau.  If any program does that consistantly, they are a good program.  The postseason tournaments will take care of themselves though.

Most Heath haters are going off the fact that they had fun watch Nolan ball for nearly two decades, and just hate slower basketball.  It has nothing to do with Heath's success thus far, it is merely that they aren't as entertained by the product.

SultanofSwine

Do you guys even watch basketball? Serious question...

Are you trying to tell everyone here that our team is as well coached as Bucknell or Memphis or George Mason or Florida, etc., etc.

People are not blinded by hate for Heath, actually quite the contrary. I have met him as have many more here and I have never heard anyone say anything like that. What we want is to see a team coached to its strengths, that has a defensive identity, that plays with intensity for 40 minutes every time they have a game, that runs an offense that consist of more than three guys passing the ball around the key until the shot clock runs down and they have to jack up some crap shot rather than getting the ball into good scoring position.

I guess if you think Heath is on the right track we should forfeit our NC banner since Heath says a team can't win playing a 40 minute press defense.

You can talk about wins and losses all you want and there being signs of improvement but you are ignoring the obvious. This team fell so far short of its potential that it is sickening and that is coaching.

Richard_white

Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:36:08 pm
Quote from: Fresh Legs on April 24, 2006, 12:36:07 pm
Quote from: HoginMemphis on April 24, 2006, 12:34:05 pm
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 12:15:28 pm
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Is everyone who has moderater/administrator status on this board a Heath hater?  You know what Sultan, you might be right, but in the end, it is those wins and losses that get a coach fired, or get you to the tournament or the final four, or whatever.  Also, I will put those numbers out there again Sultan in case you haven't read them.  Our very sporadic defense as you call it, was fourth in a very good league in both FG% and ppg.  You can say whatever you want, but in reality, the improvment that actually matters, wins and losses, because after all, even if it is ugly, you can't complain if we go 25 wins next year with 12 in the SEC, Heath has improved. I know you will hate it in the process, because after all, I believe it has been shown that Sultan and Swino both hate progress, because when it occurs, all they do is complain about the fact that the success either doesn't look pretty, or isn't fast enough for them.  What they fail to take into account is a reality of college basketball called the other teams are good too, and doing it pretty, and jumping the other teams is a slower process than they would like.

No Bad_intentions, Jefferson was a late get after that other Jefferson told us he was going straight to the NBA.  Lofton was an early recruit, who no one, including Kentucky, Florida, and Alabama, believed could play at the SEC level.  Turns out that sometimes, even the best programs are wrong.  Sort of the opposite of the Olu scenario.

Stan?

Stanley Fresh Legs it is.  Still trying to cram that Big 10 style of ball down our throats and trying to fool us by stating that progress is getting your butt kicked by a school named Bucknell who had three scholarships to give to their basketball team. 

Alright, apparently progress isn't good then.  According to Fresh Legs, every coach who doesn't make the sweet 16, ought to be fired every year.  First, if your team in consistantly in the 20-25 mark, that is success according to almost every program in America.  Seriously, i can't even respond to this, because it is so ignorant of every measure of basketball, that it makes explaining anything to you, totally pointless.  The 8-10-12 example isn't viable, because when you jump from 12 to 18, and then 18-22, that is far more signifiant that what you mentioned.  Well, what you said about winning pretty just shows how stupid the fans are.  The fans have one job, support the team, and let the coaches do the coaching and the players do the playing.  As long as there is positive results, and on the whole there have been, the fans have one job, so do that.  The fact of the matter is, that the two sec teams who did play ugly basketball, MADE IT TO THE FINAL FOUR THIS YEAR.  Could LSU shoot? Heck no! They just threw it on the glass because when they shot it, often times, it wasn't going in, and told Glen, Tyrus, and Tasmin go get it, and put it in.  They had one guy who could make enough shots to keep it honest in Darrell Mitchell, but their best offense was the O-Board.  What was Florida's strong point, especially down the stretch.  The front court.  While Humphrey, Green, and Brewer were all pretty good and key cogs in the NC run, Horford and Noah killed people on the glass, and actually propelled Noah, someone who wasn't on the map preseason, to a top 5 draft pick should he go out this year.  Moss and Richard beat people up too.  So if you want to know, maybe while ugly basketball isn't the most fun to watch, it isn't unsuccsessful.  Whether or not Hatfield got fired, who cares?  Stan can only do one thing, win basketball games and further progress the program.  If people like you, who want to see it pretty, he can't help that.  He just has to keep doing, what he is doing.  Further, at some point, he technically can't improve the win total much anymore.  We will be playing two fewer games next year.  Winning 25 games out of 27 will be awful tough won't it?  We will be playing 11 NC games instated of 13 next year.  I don't expect 25-2 heading into the SEC.  That wouldn't be improvement, that would be awesome.  I would say a fair expectation would be 9-2 in NC, especially with a road game at Texas built in, and an 11-5 campaign heading into the SEC.  I think the semis of the SEC would be awful nice, maybe a trip to the finals, and a second round birth in the NCAA.  If that happened, I would be quite pleased.  A lot of it is luck.

The one thing Dunkit is that wether it's college or Pro, it's also a  business.  Stan plays a slow & boring style on offense.  Stan and his players are the product, we fans are the buyers.  If you don't like the product then it's hard to buy into his coaching style.  Ken Hatfield quit because of the crap that fans say and what Frank thought of his style of play.

DunkIt

I just want to know BD, do you care more about winning, or being entertained?  I mean true, sports are entertainment.  But I will guarentee you something.  If we were mediocre, meaning a 14-15 win team, and entertaining, up and down, we would have fewer fans than if we were the most boring 25 win team you can think of.  I understand about the buisness of sports.  But what do you value?  That is the question you have to answer?  Personally, I don't care if we play Dick Bennett basketball, slowest ball imaginable, or Phoenix Suns pace or even Nolan Ball.  I appreciate all aspects of the game, and I want to get Ws.  The more Ws, the deeper into the post season, the better.  To me, the ends do justify the means.

 

Richard_white

Dunkit, where did I say I don't like to win?  I said, Stan's style of play is boring.  Scoring 50 points a game is boring.  Don't compare Arkansas to any other school because I am only talking about Arkansas.  I am only talking about Heath (not Richardson).  I don't want to talk about improving or his record, I was talking about about his style of play.

wrightobe

Quote from: Fresh Legs on April 24, 2006, 12:33:16 pm
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 12:15:28 pm
Quote from: SultanofSwine on April 24, 2006, 11:04:53 am
How blind do you have to be to not be able to see that the win-loss record is not the ONLY measure of growth or improvement. Big freakin deal we got lucky and won a couple extra games this year which set us up for the embarrassment in the first round. Of the 64 teams we were easily in the top 5 worst coached teams in the field. We play sporadic defense, have no idea what a real motion offense is supposed to look like, we redefine inconsistency in virtually every measurable category from game to game, that is not IMPROVING. We look like we did his first year except with better players. Why does he have this obsession with slow paced offense yet recruits a team built for an uptempo game? I swear if he had owned Secretariat he would have had him pulling a freakin chuckwagon.

Is everyone who has moderater/administrator status on this board a Heath hater?  You know what Sultan, you might be right, but in the end, it is those wins and losses that get a coach fired, or get you to the tournament or the final four, or whatever.  Also, I will put those numbers out there again Sultan in case you haven't read them.  Our very sporadic defense as you call it, was fourth in a very good league in both FG% and ppg.  You can say whatever you want, but in reality, the improvment that actually matters, wins and losses, because after all, even if it is ugly, you can't complain if we go 25 wins next year with 12 in the SEC, Heath has improved. I know you will hate it in the process, because after all, I believe it has been shown that Sultan and Swino both hate progress, because when it occurs, all they do is complain about the fact that the success either doesn't look pretty, or isn't fast enough for them.  What they fail to take into account is a reality of college basketball called the other teams are good too, and doing it pretty, and jumping the other teams is a slower process than they would like.

No Bad_intentions, Jefferson was a late get after that other Jefferson told us he was going straight to the NBA.  Lofton was an early recruit, who no one, including Kentucky, Florida, and Alabama, believed could play at the SEC level.  Turns out that sometimes, even the best programs are wrong.  Sort of the opposite of the Olu scenario.

So using your logic if Heath won 6 games his first, followed by 8 the next year, 10, 12 and so on in each year we should be happy because their is progress?  Progress in and of itself sounds good but what does that really tell you?  How measurable is that progress?  We went from a team that didn't have a chance to being able to compete with every school in the SEC.  Then, you follow that up with an opening round loss to Bucknell because you tried to play their tempo.  I'd say its taken him four years to embarrass the university in the NCAA.  Big deal.

You also forget that the reality of the situation is that sometimes you do have to win pretty, whether that is fair or not.  Ken Hatfield won a lot of games but people grew tired of his style by most accounts.  I want the hogs to win but a lot more folks would be satisfied if we played a more uptempo game.  We don't live in Iowa and therefore don't want the first who scores 50 to win. 

I'm willing to give Stan another year but what happens if we don't win 25 next year?  What is your argument then?  The only defense I've seen of Stan is that each year the record has gotten better.  Well at some point, that's either going to quit or we'll win the whole thing.  One thing is for sure, if he EVER makes another stupid comment about not pressing again out of FEAR, fire his butt on the spot.  No questions asked.  Do not pass go.  Do not collect $200.  Adios.


Quote from: BD 07 on April 23, 2006, 08:13:28 pm
Stan did great job developing Modica, Ferguson and Jefferson.  I even like the progression of Townes and Hill.  McCurdy and McGowan played to many minutes and I am happy that he didn't redshirt the two.  Love the fact that there was no true PG and no outside shooters.  But what I still think about was that great game with Bucknell.  Stan was right, he shouldn't have pressed a POOR ball handling team.

Developing players is a grade F for Stan and next year will be the same.  If Stan has a brain in his head he will find an assistant to help develop these kids.
About using the press, no one seems to think 2 players with very sore ankles, would be hindered of putting on the press.  Not only did it hinder their defense, it hindered their shooting.

I, believe that was the reason Dontell Jefferson got as much playing time as he did, to give Modica and Ferguson some relief and rest, because of their very sore and swollen ankles.

Probably, but we will never know, if  Modica and Ferguson had not had those nagging injuries, they would have shot better, made their free throws, and the press would never have been a issue,

I have seen a lot of Nolan Richardson's teams that pressed the whole game, get just as tired, as the team they were pressing, and the fatigue caused the Razorbacks to lose when they had big leads at half time.

Nolan Richardson's teams were very streaky, and you could always count on a barn burner at the end of the game, because majority of the times it was close, very close, and many times we lost.  The players just simply fatigued out, and also could not shoot free throws at the end of the game, because they were so tired.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. 

A Nolan Richardson team with its full court zone defense press, has never ever beaten a Eddie Sutton team, with his man-to-man defense and motion offense.

I remember at Alltel, when we played Sutton OSU team, the Razorbacks were ahead at half, I think by 19 points, and we ended up getting blowed out the second half.

Sutton was quoted in the papers, as telling his players at half time, to try to get under 10, because the will start tiring, and unfortunately for we Razorbacks fans, he was right.

The defense press can lead to some easy baskets for the other team, get the defense team in foul trouble very fast, especially when they start to get tired, and on the road, and it hurts the defensive rebounding, IMHO!!

hog caller

mccurdy was hitting 26 points per game in high school and shooting very well from the three aws the shooting guard not from the point guard spot they played him at.

once he plays enought to get in his groove.he will be a good shooter. you cant do that playing 1 minute per game. if he proves me wrong Lord i apoligize and me with all them pigmies down there

mbgrulz

Quote from: uglyuncle on April 24, 2006, 02:32:12 am
Quote from: DunkIt on April 24, 2006, 01:53:09 am
Wow, me and BD agreed on something.  Should we throw a party! Just kidding man.  I don't even think we should put a time frame on him at this point.  You can't put a time frame on someone until there is a temptation to fire him, and right now, there shouldn't be one.

I just think that you all need to stop saying rediculous things like Heath isn't a college coach, or is a DII coach.  He is obviously a DI coach.  Heck a mid-major conference voted the guy COY.  He isn't bad at what he does.
:razorback:

My problem with Heath isn't actually with Heath.  It is with the people that didn't get us someone that was ready to be an SEC coach. I think Heath is learning and growing into the position.  Bucknell was just an inexcusable loss IMO (mostly because I blew so much money for the trip down there).  You see our team getting better...you see our coach getting better.  One day Heath will be an above average coach.  He may even be a very good coach.  I hope he becomes that here.  I'm just really tired of waiting.  Next year will have to show improvement again...or I'm afraid Heath will be sent packing.
uncle, that is about the best summary of the heath situation i have seen.