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Should the Cotton Bowl be the 5th BCS game?

Started by TheSlick, July 07, 2009, 10:17:18 am

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TheSlick

http://cfn.scout.com/2/877496.html

Interesting discussion on College Football News.. It would be great to see the Cotton Bowl back in the mix.

PHAHog357

Yes it should and it should lead to a playoff with the 10 best teams.
Ninohog never forgotten

 

SquidBilly

The Cotton Bowl should replace the Rose Bowl since they're not willing to let go of their Big10-Pac10 tie in.  I know it's a tradition but it's not fair to have the Rose Bowl playing by it's own set of rules when selecting participants for it's game.

TheGunther

I think so. It has just as much history and draw as any other bowl out there.
everybody wanna be a bodybuilder, no one wanna lift no heavy ass weight!

Chappeee

Is the Cotton Bowl game going to be played in the Cotton Bowl Stadium or the Cowboys' new stadium?

Hollywood_HOGan45

Quote from: Chappeee on July 07, 2009, 10:44:53 am
Is the Cotton Bowl game going to be played in the Cotton Bowl Stadium or the Cowboys' new stadium?

cowboy's new stadium

Root66

The Cotton Bowl should have been the FOURTH BCS game.

ErieHog

No, it shouldn't.  It hasn't been relevant to the National Title in nearly 30 years now.

The Capital One Bowl has seen better games, played by better teams, for well over a decade now.  It's far more deserving of a BCS tie-in.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

hogomatic

Only if your Hootie, then it is equivalent to the super bowl

newera

Cotton and Capital One should both be BCS bowls making SIX bowls with an 8 team playoff if i've done my math correctly...
I'm a diverse all sports fan... Razorbacks, Lipscomb Bisons (NCAA), Portland Timbers (MLS), Tennessee Titans, Nashville Predators, Barcelona (La Liga), Arsenal (EPL), and Sacramento Kings.

BEvERage

Quote from: hogomatic on July 07, 2009, 12:57:37 pm
Only if your Hootie, then it is equivalent to the super bowl

wow, it took 9 posts before a nutt reference was inserted, you are derelict in your duties.

SquidBilly

Quote from: BEvERage on July 07, 2009, 01:00:39 pm
wow, it took 9 posts before a nutt reference was inserted, you are derelict in your duties.

He was referring to Darius Rucker.  :D

Jborohog09

Quote from: newera on July 07, 2009, 12:58:25 pm
Cotton and Capital One should both be BCS bowls making SIX bowls with an 8 team playoff if i've done my math correctly...

it'd be 12 actually since there would be six bowls and two teams each playing in them.

 

peakhog

It's all about a title sponsor who can pony up the big bucks for the team payouts. You could play a BCS game in WMS in the Rock if say Wal-mart kicked in 15 million in payouts!

ALAHOG83

Quote from: Jborohog09 on July 07, 2009, 01:12:32 pm
it'd be 12 actually since there would be six bowls and two teams each playing in them.
Not if they were used as playoff games as opposed to the traditional bowl format.

If the BCS games are used as playoff games then it would take six games to determine the top two teams and then have the championship game.

cbjagman

Quote from: TheSlick on July 07, 2009, 10:17:18 am
http://cfn.scout.com/2/877496.html

Interesting discussion on College Football News.. It would be great to see the Cotton Bowl back in the mix.
Actually what most folks don't realize that as off last year's game it is now considered to be so. After all, the powerful Ole Misery Retards finally brought Hooter Dale to the promised land and allowed him to earn a BCS ring although it wasn't the SECC or NC bling-bling that he was hoping for.

Root66

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 12:54:37 pm
No, it shouldn't.  It hasn't been relevant to the National Title in nearly 30 years now.

Akin to the Rose Bowl, eh?

Fisticuffs

The Cotton Bowl will become a BCS bowl in the next 5-10 years, and rightfully so.

ErieHog

Quote from: Root66 on July 07, 2009, 02:33:10 pm
Akin to the Rose Bowl, eh?

Nope.  The Rose Bowl has been relevant *much* more recently than the Cotton Bowl. Keep in mind it was a Rose Bowl split MNC that prompted the reformation of the Bowl Alliance into the BCS.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Root66

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 02:36:15 pm
Nope.  The Rose Bowl has been relevant *much* more recently than the Cotton Bowl. Keep in mind it was a Rose Bowl split MNC that prompted the reformation of the Bowl Alliance into the BCS.

True, and that is the ONE and ONLY thing that made it relevant. Because nobody gave a flying s about the Big 10 meeting the Pac 10 annually. For 30 years or so.

Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: ALAHOG83 on July 07, 2009, 01:42:41 pm
Not if they were used as playoff games as opposed to the traditional bowl format.

If the BCS games are used as playoff games then it would take six games to determine the top two teams and then have the championship game.

Wow, so a team could say, "We won the Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, and National Championship all in one year!" .......... I dunno about that.
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

ErieHog

Quote from: Root66 on July 07, 2009, 02:43:56 pm
True, and that is the ONE and ONLY thing that made it relevant. Because nobody gave a flying s about the Big 10 meeting the Pac 10 annually. For 30 years or so.


Untrue; in the 20 years preceding the BCS, the #1 or #2 team featured in the Rose Bowl 8 times, versus once for the Cotton Bowl.    Rose Bowl > Cotton Bowl, for a *very* long time.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Fisticuffs

Quote from: Razors85 on July 07, 2009, 02:45:36 pm
Wow, so a team could say, "We won the Rose Bowl, Cotton Bowl, and National Championship all in one year!" .......... I dunno about that.
Well with a plus one 4 team playoff in which the playoff rotates around the 4 bcs bowls, the national champion would also be the champion of one of the 4 bcs bowls. There would be 3 losers of that bowl though. I think the Cotton Bowl should be a bcs bowl but only when they begin the plus one format in college football. That way there will still be 4 bcs bowls every year while a 5th one would host the playoff.

Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 02:47:43 pm

Untrue; in the 20 years preceding the BCS, the #1 or #2 team featured in the Rose Bowl 8 times, versus once for the Cotton Bowl.    Rose Bowl > Cotton Bowl, for a *very* long time.

How many times was USC the #1 or #2 out of the eight? Doesn't that just mean that USC > Cotton Bowl?  :)
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

 

donewithdale

The Cotton Bowl is a crap bowl. 

The Rose Bowl is everything a bowl should be. 

donewithdale

Quote from: Razors85 on July 07, 2009, 02:52:25 pm
How many times was USC the #1 or #2 out of the eight? Doesn't that just mean that USC > Cotton Bowl?  :)

Washington and Michigan also > than the Cotton Bowl by your reasoning(which is nothing more than USC jealousy).


Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: Fisticuffs on July 07, 2009, 02:51:22 pm
Well with a plus one 4 team playoff in which the playoff rotates around the 4 bcs bowls, the national champion would also be the champion of one of the 4 bcs bowls. There would be 3 losers of that bowl though. I think the Cotton Bowl should be a bcs bowl but only when they begin the plus one format in college football. That way there will still be 4 bcs bowls every year while a 5th one would host the playoff.

I agree with that. The more teams you add to a playoff system the more insignificant the "bowls" become. They just turn into games...
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: donewithdale on July 07, 2009, 02:56:25 pm
Washington and Michigan also > than the Cotton Bowl by your reasoning(which is nothing more than USC jealousy).



Jealously?..... No.
I give them props for being one of the top programs in the nation.
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

Root66

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 02:47:43 pm

Untrue; in the 20 years preceding the BCS, the #1 or #2 team featured in the Rose Bowl 8 times, versus once for the Cotton Bowl.    Rose Bowl > Cotton Bowl, for a *very* long time.

Good, but the other Number 1 or 2 team was usually playing in the Orange, Cotton or Sugar Bowl. There were many match-ups between #1 USC and Number 8 or 9 or 10 Ohio State, Wisconsin or Michigan. Or #1 Michigan or OSU versus #7 USC or Washington. It was the Fiesta Bowl that should have been the odd bowl out.

Fisticuffs

Quote from: Razors85 on July 07, 2009, 02:56:35 pm
I agree with that. The more teams you add to a playoff system the more insignificant the "bowls" become. They just turn into games...
If you rotated the playoff around 5 bcs bowls its similar to the current system we have and almost alike to the bcs bowls before 2006 when there was no separate "BCS Title Game" and the Nat'l Championship just rotated around the 4 bcs bowls.... except much less controversy at seasons end.

ErieHog

Quote from: Razors85 on July 07, 2009, 02:52:25 pm
How many times was USC the #1 or #2 out of the eight? Doesn't that just mean that USC > Cotton Bowl?  :)

Washington, Michigan, Penn State, etc.    It was rarely, if ever a 'USC' show.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

Quote from: Root66 on July 07, 2009, 03:00:56 pm
Good, but the other Number 1 or 2 team was usually playing in the Orange, Cotton or Sugar Bowl. There were many match-ups between #1 USC and Number 8 or 9 or 10 Ohio State, Wisconsin or Michigan. Or #1 Michigan or OSU versus #7 USC or Washington. It was the Fiesta Bowl that should have been the odd bowl out.

Actually, none of the matchups involved a #1 USC.  Never mind facts, though.  They get in the way of the silly argument that the Cotton Bowl is somehow better than the Rose Bowl.

Really, there is no comparison between the games.  The Rose Bowl is better now, has been better in the BCS era,  was was better in the Bowl Alliance era,  and really, even before that back into the very early 70s.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

rogersvillemohog

Yes, the Cotton Bowl should be a BCS Bowl. That would be awesome! I love the Cotton Bowl!  :razorback:
Arkansas Football: It's the players running through the A, Hog Hats, and Big Red. It's more than 70,000 fans calling, "WOO PIG SOOIE!"

Arkansas Football: It's the State of Arkansas banding together behind one team, and a mascot like no other. Those select few who put on the jersey are... chosen. They wear the colors, they pay the price, and they succeed. They are exceptional, they are Razorbacks.

Together we stand as tall as the towers of Old Main. Our memories are etched in stone like names on Senior Walk. And our blood flows Razorbacks Red. For 100 years we've been Hogwild and today we continue the tradition.

We are Arkansas Razorbacks!

Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 03:03:34 pm
Washington, Michigan, Penn State, etc.    It was rarely, if ever a 'USC' show.

Thanks for the info Erie.

That post was kinda meant to get someone to scream at me. I am bored, sorry.
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

rtom

nothing can compare to the rose bowl....its the best bowl there is...it is the grandaddy of all bowl games...none of the other bowls can even compare to the rose in total festivities

Fisticuffs

I thought this was about the Cotton Bowl should/should not become a BCS bowl. Not to compare it with the Rose Bowl.

rogersvillemohog

Quote from: Fisticuffs on July 07, 2009, 03:14:01 pm
I thought this was about the Cotton Bowl should/should not become a BCS bowl. Not to compare it with the Rose Bowl.
Me too.....
Arkansas Football: It's the players running through the A, Hog Hats, and Big Red. It's more than 70,000 fans calling, "WOO PIG SOOIE!"

Arkansas Football: It's the State of Arkansas banding together behind one team, and a mascot like no other. Those select few who put on the jersey are... chosen. They wear the colors, they pay the price, and they succeed. They are exceptional, they are Razorbacks.

Together we stand as tall as the towers of Old Main. Our memories are etched in stone like names on Senior Walk. And our blood flows Razorbacks Red. For 100 years we've been Hogwild and today we continue the tradition.

We are Arkansas Razorbacks!

Root66

Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 03:05:36 pm
Actually, none of the matchups involved a #1 USC.  Never mind facts, though.  They get in the way of the silly argument that the Cotton Bowl is somehow better than the Rose Bowl.

Really, there is no comparison between the games.  The Rose Bowl is better now, has been better in the BCS era,  was was better in the Bowl Alliance era,  and really, even before that back into the very early 70s.

Like I said...the Fiesta Bowl should not have been part of the crummy bowl alliance or BCS. It should have been the Cotton Bowl. And when the Rose did NOT want to participate in the Bowl Alliance they should have been passed over in favor of the Fiesta, leaving the Rose Bowl out in the cold. Too bad.

ErieHog

Quote from: Root66 on July 07, 2009, 03:17:34 pm
Like I said...the Fiesta Bowl should not have been part of the crummy bowl alliance or BCS. It should have been the Cotton Bowl. And when the Rose did NOT want to participate in the Bowl Alliance they should have been passed over in favor of the Fiesta, leaving the Rose Bowl out in the cold. Too bad.

The Fiesta's record was more distinguished than the Cotton's-- people *vastly* overestimate the esteem of the Cotton Bowl after about 1972.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."


ErieHog

Quote from: Root66 on July 07, 2009, 03:21:44 pm
Not this people.


If you dismiss the Fiesta as an inferior bowl, then you are overestimating it.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

donewithdale

Quote from: Fisticuffs on July 07, 2009, 03:14:01 pm
I thought this was about the Cotton Bowl should/should not become a BCS bowl. Not to compare it with the Rose Bowl.

If it is going to be placed on the same level as the Rose Bowl, shouldn't it be comparable?


The Fiesta Bowl has been more deserving even when it was played at Sun Devil Stadium.  The CB's stadium has been deteriorating and the weather in Dallas should disqualify it immediately.  Moving to Jerry's stadium is its only hope. 

Simple Swineman

No, there should be no more BCS bowls.

-At first there were 4 BCS bowls.
-Then they added a 5th by having 4 BCS bowls plus a National Championship game.
-Now they want to have 6 by adding the Cotton Bowl
-After that it will be the Citrus Bowl
-After that some other bowl will step up

Before you know it half the bowls will be BCS bowls.

Kris P. Bacon

Quote from: donewithdale on July 07, 2009, 03:33:01 pm
If it is going to be placed on the same level as the Rose Bowl, shouldn't it be comparable?


The Fiesta Bowl has been more deserving even when it was played at Sun Devil Stadium.  The CB's stadium has been deteriorating and the weather in Dallas should disqualify it immediately.  Moving to Jerry's stadium is its only hope. 

How does the weather in Dallas disqualify it?
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."
– Winston Churchill

Fisticuffs

Quote from: Simple Swineman on July 07, 2009, 03:34:37 pm
No, there should be no more BCS bowls.

-At first there were 4 BCS bowls.
-Then they added a 5th by having 4 BCS bowls plus a National Championship game.
-Now they want to have 6 by adding the Cotton Bowl
-After that it will be the Citrus Bowl
-After that some other bowl will step up

Before you know it half the bowls will be BCS bowls.
They should rid the BCS title game and rotate the national championship around 5 bcs bowls (with the addition of cotton bowl)

WizardofhOgZ

July 07, 2009, 03:46:18 pm #45 Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 03:47:58 pm by WizardofhOgZ
Quote from: ErieHog on July 07, 2009, 12:54:37 pm
No, it shouldn't.  It hasn't been relevant to the National Title in nearly 30 years now.

The Capital One Bowl has seen better games, played by better teams, for well over a decade now.  It's far more deserving of a BCS tie-in.

This is a "chicken and egg" argument; if you had taken the Big 12 and/or SEC away from the Orange bowl 20 years ago, it would have gone to crap as well.  That is what happened to the Cotton Bowl.  And then, the era of domed stadiums made the weather in Dallas a factor.

In the era BEFORE (a) Arkansas left the SWC and (b) the BCS, the Cotton Bowl WAS one of the "Big Four" by any definition.  But when the SWC fragmented and disolved, AND the BCS came on the scene, the relative importance of the Cotton Bowl game did, in fact, digress.  Keep in mind, this began in the era when all bowls were tied to specific conferences. 

These days, conference affiliations are superceeded by BCS rankings, ensuring that all BCS bowls get good matchups.  There is no reason why the Cotton Bowl - in the premier sports facility in the world, and in the middle of traditional football popularity - cannot regain it's top tier status immediately upon inclusion in the BCS.

And it will (and you guys are gonna love this) - just as I predicted when Jerry first announced his plans for the new stadium 2 or 3 years ago.  Domino number one of my prediction (the moving of the Cotton Bowl game to Arlington) was announced a year ago, and the first game will occur after this fall's season.  Step 2 - announcement of the Cotton Bowl in the BCS - will occur in the next iteration of BCS negotiations, scheduled for about 3 years from now.

For the record, I've also said many times that the ONLY playoff college football needs is the "Plus one", with the same BCS "seeding" as occurs now, with #1 playing #4 in one bowl (on a rotation basis), #3 playing #4, and then the two winners playing 2 weeks later (Jan 15-20), which gives fans of the two teams time to make plans to attend, get lodging, tickets, etc.

Why not include 16 - or 8?  Well, in the history of college football, there has never been a case where a team with 2 or 3 losses (and ranked, say, #12) could upset an undefeated team ranked #1 all season and catapult ahead of them; it defeats the purpose of the regular season that is so exciting from beginning to end already.  No - if you were to review every season in the last 50 or 60 years, there has only been 2, 3 or MAYBE 4 teams that were legitimate contenders for the National Championship by the end of the regular season.  Those are the only teams that should compete for the Championship, and the Plus 1 allows all of them to be included.  If the number 4 team (a team with probably 1 loss most years) pulls two "upsets" in a row, well then their record will be equal to or better than the teams formerly ranked above them - plus they would have defeated 2 of them, therefore deserving the top spot.

Aside from that traditional argument, there is an even bigger case to be made against a larger playoff from the logistics perspective.  Too many games for too many fans to travel to in too short a time (short version of the explanation).

rogersvillemohog

Quote from: Fisticuffs on July 07, 2009, 03:41:47 pm
They should rid the BCS title game and rotate the national championship around 5 bcs bowls (with the addition of cotton bowl)
That's pretty much what they do already, isn't it? I like two idea's. 1st is Mike Leach's approach, 10 game season, conference championship game, 64 team playoff. Or, the way they did it in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s. I also like the CWS play-off format for CFB.
Arkansas Football: It's the players running through the A, Hog Hats, and Big Red. It's more than 70,000 fans calling, "WOO PIG SOOIE!"

Arkansas Football: It's the State of Arkansas banding together behind one team, and a mascot like no other. Those select few who put on the jersey are... chosen. They wear the colors, they pay the price, and they succeed. They are exceptional, they are Razorbacks.

Together we stand as tall as the towers of Old Main. Our memories are etched in stone like names on Senior Walk. And our blood flows Razorbacks Red. For 100 years we've been Hogwild and today we continue the tradition.

We are Arkansas Razorbacks!

donewithdale

Quote from: Razors85 on July 07, 2009, 03:40:58 pm
How does the weather in Dallas disqualify it?

Are you serious?  How many Rose, Fiesta, Orange or Sugar Bowls in the last 30 years have been affected by poor weather like sleet, snow, rain or just having to be played in cold weather?  Obviously the Sugar hasn't.  Where would fans and teams rather spend their time?  The West End tourist trap in late Dec/Jan where the weather is often cold and rainy or worse or LA, The Quarter, Arizona or Miami? 


Fisticuffs

Quote from: rogersvillemohog on July 07, 2009, 03:48:10 pm
That's pretty much what they do already, isn't it? I like two idea's. 1st is Mike Leach's approach, 10 game season, conference championship game, 64 team playoff. Or, the way they did it in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and most of the 90s. I also like the CWS play-off format for CFB.
So we should have double elimination with a series of best out of 3 for the National championship?

Root66

Quote from: donewithdale on July 07, 2009, 03:48:33 pm
have been affected by poor weather like sleet, snow, rain or just having to be played in cold weather? 

That's what is known as football weather. If you want to be warm and cozy, then your sport is baseball...or ugh! basketball.