What is going on with Winston?

[wholehog92]

First use of "wallflower" on a Hogville board.  Congrats.

I try to bring originality.

[wholehog92]

How the heck are we going to find out how he behaves if no one is watching?  If I am not watching, and nobody else is watching, then don't we just have to take DW's word for it?

And those videos don't count.  He KNOWS that people are watching when the camera is on.

With a name like fengsooiee, I thought you would already know.

I completely agree on him knowing people are watching on the videos.  That's why I indicated it could be different behavior.

[Oklahawg]

He started the season rough, but he actually played much better as the year went on.  BP seemed to be encouraged later in year with his play. Also, some of those times he was burned were not totally on him.  There were several times when the safeties were supposed to be helping deep and totally blew their coverage. 

Safety play was iffy after Ford went down. Harris is not quick enough to help out near the numbers.

I like Madison and Broadway. Norton still has a chance to become quite solid.

[athunt]

Safety play was iffy after Ford went down. Harris is not quick enough to help out near the numbers.

I like Madison and Broadway. Norton still has a chance to become quite solid.

Although im not a fan of Harris, quickness is not his issue. He recently ran im the low 4.4 at a workout. He just isnt big enough to stop someone who is 6'2 or bigger at receiver.  If Ford makes it back he will definetly get a chance to earn his spot back because his teammates and the coaches love him. I know that Nelson was recently moved to LB.  Whether or not he stays will remain to be seen. They are definetly shaking up the secondary to make room for new comers.

[Carl Lazlo]

Kobe,  like so many on here, maniac doesn't know much about football....  Corners are mostly cover guys.  NOT run stoppers.   BTW-    We're very excited about having Winston playing for the Razorback!

I forgot more than most of you will ever know.  I realize that corners are cover guys.  But to think they'll never have to take down a back is completely moronic.  I'm excited about Winston being a razorback as well.  Just not ready to crown the kid before he steps on campus.  If he plays stronger than the 182 he supposedly at then I say good.  Heck even his uncle admits that he's 8 pounds under what the coaching staff would like him at.  Your going to lose a couple pounds during summer two a days that's why he should check in a little over 190. next

[Carl Lazlo]

right now I'm comfortable with Norton and Broadway.  well see can't wait.

[Carl Lazlo]

I think norton is about 6'0 190.  Tremain Thomas is 6'0 180.  They are in the same range as Darius so I don't see the weight really being a problem.

Norton listed at 200

[Tusks]

maybe a 182 DW is better than a 190 "insert name here".

[athunt]

If Tremain doesnt stop dogging it in workouts he may see his name slide further down the list of DB's.  Heard from a good source that he is a very gifted athlete but needs to work on his work ethic in practice.  Gotta go through the valley to get to the peak.

[VenturaHog]

If Tremain doesnt stop dogging it in workouts he may see his name slide further down the list of DB's.  Heard from a good source that he is a very gifted athlete but needs to work on his work ethic in practice.  Gotta go through the valley to get to the peak.

I think he was our most underrated freshman last year besides Stadther, T Thomas was very solid for us last year especially down the stretch as I recall.

[athunt]

I agree with you on Stadther, he was a silent nightmare on the inside despite only being a little over 6 foot.  I think a healthy rotation between him and DD Jones will do wonders for our defensive front this fall.

[wholehog92]

I agree with you on Stadther, he was a silent nightmare on the inside despite only being a little over 6 foot.  I think a healthy rotation between him and DD Jones will do wonders for our defensive front this fall.

This is our area where we can improve our D by the largest margin.  Better line play will shorten the exposure time of Dbacks, free up the LBs for better run support, and make the power running game less attractive.  I think we recruited at least adequately on the D line for improvement if not in starters, then depth.  I really believe one of the newcomers will be starting before the year is complete though.

[LJHOG]

Better safety play will help our corners

so will a better pass rush. 

[sowmonella]

so will a better pass rush. 

You two are right on the money.

[woodhog14]

Safety play was iffy after Ford went down. Harris is not quick enough to help out near the numbers.

I like Madison and Broadway. Norton still has a chance to become quite solid.

How in the world can you like Madison as one of our starting CB's? You must have watched a different Isaac Madison last year than I did.

I agree with Broadway, he really had a solid year once he gained more playing time, but Madison...

[TomasPistola]

How in the world can you like Madison as one of our starting CB's? You must have watched a different Isaac Madison last year than I did.

I agree with Broadway, he really had a solid year once he gained more playing time, but Madison...

I agree with Oklahawg on Madison. That kid was in an unenviable position last year and he did get burned some. But I think there is enough talent there to become a very good corner. Not Winston good, but still a solid player.

[VenturaHog]

I agree with Oklahawg on Madison. That kid was in an unenviable position last year and he did get burned some. But I think there is enough talent there to become a very good corner. Not Winston good, but still a solid player.

Agreed. He is not as bad as most are making him out to be, in fact I remember most people on here said the same about Chris Houston after his first year starting.

Winston has all the tools to be the best CB we've ever had though, I wouldn't say that about Madison.

[OKhogfan1959]

Madison I think is the fastest or up there as fastest on the team. A lot of times he was in position and didn't look for the ball. He should be much better as he's a year older. Norton has good hands and catches the ball well but he gets beat badly. He's alright in zone coverage but no man to man.

Harris is a good solid player. He could be better this year. He seems to be the player that gets the most criticism. I don't get it. We have a few like Harris that can make a difference this year.

The thing is we have options in Winston, Gordon, Crim and Leon. The players ahead of these kids will either rise to the next level or sit down. It's up to them.

[DoubleJ]

I just think a healthy Norton will compliment Broadway very well.   At only 182 I think Winston is slightly under weight.  He'll get damaged at LOS by Julio Jones and he'll be outmatched by sec running backs.  Around 195 before we put him on the field. 

Chris Houston is easily the most physically dominating corner to ever come to Arkansas, and he weighed 185.

[Hawgndaaz]

Madison was put in a horrible situation last year, no matter how much he got burned. Our defense was terrible top to bottom from the start of the season, then improved to just below marginal towards the end (barely).

I think starting young at CB has to be the toughest place to start in the SEC. It didn't help that he was practicing against a group of average receivers too (meaning they were all unproven freshmen besides LC and the tall white kid).

The verdict is still out on Madison, IMO.

[kobe24]

right now I'm comfortable with Norton and Broadway.  well see can't wait.

did you watch the bama game a couple of years ago when norton was healthy he made madison look good he was getting beat all over the place, iam not saying DW is the best but he is better than those 2 guys

[Abominable Hillbilly]

You must have seen a different Norton than I have seen.





did you watch the bama game a couple of years ago when norton was healthy he made madison look good he was getting beat all over the place, iam not saying DW is the best but he is better than those 2 guys

[woodhog14]

You obviously were watching a different Bama vs Arkansas game Hillbilly. Kobe is right, Norton got torched ALL NIGHT LONG!! I mean TORCHED!! He gave up 2 TD's and two long balls down field. I was at the game and was wondering why wasn't he taken out or something because Bama picked on him all night long.

He did have a pick, but it was basically handed to him by JPW on a screen.

[Steef]

Coach P has options this year that he didn't have last year.

If Madison produces, he'll play. If not, he'll watch from the sidelines.

[Clint Alan]

If we dont get Winston into camp, all this bickering is moot.......

Just my opinion of course

[asparkm]

did you watch the bama game a couple of years ago when norton was healthy he made madison look good he was getting beat all over the place, iam not saying DW is the best but he is better than those 2 guys

Kobe is right, Madison and Norton do not have the ability to effectively cover SEC WR's... If we have to heavily rely on these two guys I'll be worried about our defense this year.

[Zen_Hog]

Kobe is right, Madison and Norton do not have the ability to effectively cover SEC WR's... If we have to heavily rely on these two guys I'll be worried about our defense this year.

Agreed. They showed last year that they could not handle SEC WR. Some of that had to deal with the Safety not being there over the top, but I want to see what Winston can do. We already know what Madison and Broadway are capable of.

[Clint Alan]

Agreed. They showed last year that they could not handle SEC WR. Some of that had to deal with the Safety not being there over the top, but I want to see what Winston can do. We already know what Madison and Broadway are capable of.

In Norton's defense, he was hampered by the injury bug all of last year......

[Zen_Hog]

In Norton's defense, he was hampered by the injury bug all of last year......

I think Norton is very good, I didn't say anything about him. He had a hell of a year 2 years ago.

[Clint Alan]

I think Norton is very good, I didn't say anything about him. He had a hell of a year 2 years ago.

Im not attacking you......I just wanted to quote a thread, and went with the one above my post......

[killamon]

You obviously were watching a different Bama vs Arkansas game Hillbilly. Kobe is right, Norton got torched ALL NIGHT LONG!! I mean TORCHED!! He gave up 2 TD's and two long balls down field. I was at the game and was wondering why wasn't he taken out or something because Bama picked on him all night long.

He did have a pick, but it was basically handed to him by JPW on a screen.

In Norton's defense, Reggie Herring was a dumbfvck for leaving Norton on an island the whole game.  Norton was only a soph, I believe, going against DJ Hall who was one the top WR in the SEC that year.

[SpaHog]

IMO one of the biggest issues/weaknesses with our corners isn't necessarily coverage, it is ball skills.  For what they are asked to do in our typical scheme, they do a decent enough job of coverage.  I think sometimes people on here forget how difficult it is to play the cornerback position.

It's all in the hips!

[Oklahawg]

Madison was not ready for the action he was forced into early in the year. Like the bulk of the defense, he got better as the year went along. This, in contrast to the year-long inconsistent play of Norton the year before.

Madison played quite well this spring. He stepped up his game. So did Broadway. They are running first string following spring drills for a reason.

Remember the evolution of our defense from spring 2008 to the LSU game.

1. wafer thin LB corps prompts flirtation with a 4-2-5 hybrid scheme in summer drills. Fairchild's dismissal didn't help. Wendell Davis' injury didn't help. Took 4 games to get every LB healthy and a while after that to sort out the rotation and positions.
2. Ford filled a great need at safety but left a big hole when he injured his neck. Despite the suggestion that Matt Harris has top-end speed at safety, he played slow, as is visible time and time again in the LSU game that was on TV again recently.  Harris plays hard and plays smart, he just plays a step slower than is optimum.
3. Sandbagging by ARob and Mitchell created problems on the field we may never truly understand. I think its fair to say that their underperformance created a lot of our busts, especially the first half of the season.
4. LBs had to sort out positions and rotation to avoid the busts that put guys like Madison on an island in run AND pass schemes. Madison was asked to be the final line of defense on several long runs because two DL failed miserably and caused a rookie LB to be out of position. Giving an SEC RB a 10-yard running start without so much as a flailing arm in his direction is not a scenario many CBs can overcome.

You will see that hybridization scheme still at work, with Bret Harris possibly finding a few mop-up reps this year.

CB play was decent vs LSU. Helps that LSU had suspect QB play. Helps that the DL had maybe its best game that day.

There's a synergy at work here - get the DL problems fixed and you'll see an athletic group of LBs be able to play to their strengths. If the DBs only have to be DBs that'll be a huge improvement. We're not dealing with schemes that we saw most years under Nutt (the 2006 season with Anderson and Houston starring, plus - maybe - the 2000 season that ended in the CB loss vs OU being exceptions). We are dealing with players being able to perform their roles and not tax the better players to cover for them.

I suspect we'll see Madison and Broadway start the first game and end the year as the nickel/dime guys behind Winston and Gordon. The caveats remain: will Gordon play (also?) on offense? and, will Winston clear the NCAA clearinghouse?

[japhog]

If we dont get Winston into camp, all this bickering is moot.......

Just my opinion of course

exactly, until winston gets cleared he is not an option....  if winston doesn't make it i wouldn't be suprised to see Crimm and broadway as the starting cb's the first game. 

[kobe24]

yea you are rite until he gets that call he isnt a option, and i hope madison has gotten better

[kobe24]

lmao thats funny

[Carl Lazlo]

In Norton's defense, Reggie Herring was a dumbfvck for leaving Norton on an island the whole game.  Norton was only a soph, I believe, going against DJ Hall who was one the top WR in the SEC that year.

Yep herring is about as smart as a box of rocks.  Some guys bloom later in their career.  Scottie Pippen was cleaning jocks his first year in college.  Norton has gotten bigger, faster and stronger since then.  He also has SEC experience.  I might be wrong.  But, I believe he will impress us this year.  Kobe is way off base to say his nephew is better than those two.  Wait til he at least puts on the pads before you make those assumptions.  I don't give a rats tail what DW did in high school.  We ain't in the 5a anymore.  It's real now.  futhermore, as far as our incoming CB's, I'm more impressed with the way Gordon plays the position. 

[kobe24]

i figure you would say that since you were the one from day 1 wondering how the hell he was i 5* so you always been a hater, gordon  is good tho

[athunt]

futhermore, as far as our incoming CB's, I'm more impressed with the way Gordon plays the position. 

Ive talked to current DB's who are more than impressed with his ability and skills.

[Carl Lazlo]

Gordon is tough.

[kobe24]

maniac you are wild tho lmao

[Carl Lazlo]

i figure you would say that since you were the one from day 1 wondering how the hell he was i 5* so you always been a hater, gordon  is good tho

I don't hate.  But, I don't have to believe the HYPE until I see it on Saturdays.

[kobe24]

your rite its all hype

[Clint Alan]

yea you are rite until he gets that call he isnt a option, and i hope madison has gotten better

I hope he gets that call......and I hope he gets if fast kobe.....

I take it you still havent heard anything at all?

[kobe24]

i can talk all i want cause i have train this kid for 5yrs and i know what he can do and i talk to so college DC and said DW  is a rare find

[kobe24]

this a board this is what we do

[ListenHereMister]

yea you are rite until he gets that call he isnt a option, and i hope madison has gotten better

How long does it take the NCAA to clear these players??

[DoubleJ]

How many catches did DW allow last year?  I think it was two.  Yes, I said catches, not TD's.

[Tomhog™]

Lay off the personal insults, please.

[Carl Lazlo]

How many catches did DW allow last year?  I think it was two.  Yes, I said catches, not TD's.

I only watched one of his games last season.  semifinal 5a.  Lined up on a sophomore and got sucked in by play action, TD.  I'm not debating his coverage skills.  When the ball's in the air and he's close to it, he's good.  It's just everything else that comes with playing football.  The nuances so to speak.  Plus the SEC is alot harder competition than 5a football.  Having said that I hope he proves me wrong and at least makes the all-sec freshman team.