Double Standards

[Albert Einswine]

If we are going to talk about not accepting mediocrity, then how can this mediocre basketball team be exempt from the discussion.

In 9 seasons Nutt has compiled a middling 38-36 Conference record.

Nutt has never beaten Georgia or Florida and has only bested Tennessee twice, less than a third of the time.

In 6 of 9 seasons, Nutt's teams have gone on 3 game or longer losing streaks, including this past season which is supposedly his greatest accomplishment.

As a side note, 2002 is the only season this decade that he has not lost at least 3 in a row.

In the past 50 years of Arkansas football there have only been 9 losses in which the Razorbacks were beaten while surrendering more than 50 points. Nutt owns 4 of those 9. Consequently, in only 3 of those losses did the Razorbacks yield more than 60 points. Nutt owns 2 of those 3.

We suffered embarrassing Bowl losses to UNLV and Minnesota under the guidance of Houston Nutt.

Nutt should not receive leniency for simply being less horrible than Ford, Kines or Crowe!



Both programs are mediocre.  There you have it.  Satisfied?

Arkansas fans are intelligent and now armed with enough information to see what has been going on.  The Powers That Be were openly engaged in the business of dethroning Heath in an attempt to divert attention away from Nutt and his mess.

Do I think Heath has warranted being released?  Yes I do.   I don't believe he deserves to be let go before Nutt, however.

Everyone knows what was going on.  The athletic administration at the UofA is shameful in the way they conduct business.

Not only keeping Nutt, but giving him an extension and raise signals the administration's embrace of underperformance. 

Why should they expect any more overall from Stan than they're happy to accept from Nutt?

[BleedingHogLiberal]

I agree, mediocrity is not acceptable from either program. But... If you are going to be 100% behind HDN despite the horrible way the season ended and the off-field antics, then it would most definitely be a double standard to fire SH at this point. The season is ending well, and the antics are pretty much non-existent...

You cannot give HDN a raise and extension and then fire SH. Completely and totally double standard... Hopefully we will win one or two in the NCAAT and he will take a better offer elsewhere opening the door to a replacement without the obvious double standard. (and to avoid any racial complaints again....)

Either way, WPS... we are going to the dance!!!

[BennyBlancofromtheRock]

I agree, mediocrity is not acceptable from either program. But... If you are going to be 100% behind HDN despite the horrible way the season ended and the off-field antics, then it would most definitely be a double standard to fire SH at this point. The season is ending well, and the antics are pretty much non-existent...

You cannot give HDN a raise and extension and then fire SH. Completely and totally double standard... Hopefully we will win one or two in the NCAAT and he will take a better offer elsewhere opening the door to a replacement without the obvious double standard. (and to avoid any racial complaints again....)

Either way, WPS... we are going to the dance!!!
[/quote+

I agree, mediocrity is not acceptable from either program. But... If you are going to be 100% behind HDN despite the horrible way the season ended and the off-field antics, then it would most definitely be a double standard to fire SH at this point. The season is ending well, and the antics are pretty much non-existent...

You cannot give HDN a raise and extension and then fire SH. Completely and totally double standard... Hopefully we will win one or two in the NCAAT and he will take a better offer elsewhere opening the door to a replacement without the obvious double standard. (and to avoid any racial complaints again....)

Either way, WPS... we are going to the dance!!!

+1 QFTGDT

[Uncle Jed]

The UofA has indeed acted very shameful with "the leak" about Heath possible release while there were still basketball games to play.   Proves that Nolan WAS right!

I would not want to hear any talk of firing Heath until he's been given 9+ years (including a 2 year free pass) to win ANYTHING.   Nutt has won NOTHING in his 9 seasons here and he's an embarrassment to the state.    Heath is a class act, finally has all his own players, has steadily improved each season - and has made the NCAA the last 2 seasons.   Thats good enough for me.    You see, I feel Heath has upward potential.   That cannot be said for nutty.   This season for nutty is the best he'll ever do - and still no BCS.   

I roughly equate an NCAA tourney berth to a BCS bowl game - and non BCS bowl games to an NIT berth.   No, its not apples to apples, but an NCAA tourney berth and a BCS bowl games actually MEAN something -it is what every team aspires too.    Non BCS and NIT mean next to nothing in my book.   

This basketball team has played very well at times this year.   They are playing very good basketball now - when it counts.   When has nutty had his team playing great when it really counted?   He hasnt.   He's a proven chronic choker.   

The basketball team is playing very well and has plenty of motivation now.   We WILL beat USC.   

Oh, and FIRE NUTT. 

[Full-Tilt-Porker]

It's called class.  One has it, one doesn't.

Would Dale run out on the court ahead of his players, team captains, seniors and do some ridiculous goofy war dance at mid court...you betcha.
Would Stan lead the charge through the A onto the field gleefully saying look at me, look at me, notice me....never.

Would Dale take ultimate credit for everything positive and throw his players under the bus when it goes bad..yep, count on it!
Has Stan complained and put his shortcomings on his guys.....nope.

The media flat out said Stan was out of a job....did he complain or say it was hurting the team?.....not a word out of his mouth.
If the media was openly discussing Dale's replacement and had him all but packed, would he have anything to say about. it.......you could have heard the whine over the Boston Mountains.

I have not heard Stan lie, complain, gloat, cry, make excuses or any of the other numerous things our football coach practices daily.

The difference, plain and simple folks is class.  Poor Dale isn't smart enough to realize that his schtick has wearried the masses of the hog Nation and we are not ever and I mean ever going to jump back on his bandwagon.

 

[Killean]

The difference is that Stan has shown he can LEARN from his mistakes.


I'd much rather him make his mistakes AND learn from them here than just make his mistakes here and go somewhere else to put all that knowledge into effect.

Heath has grown as a coach in the 5 years we've had him.  Remember the "fresh legs" comments from last season?  Didn't happen this year, he rode his horses in the SECT, and they were almost worn out for the final game (tired teams jack up a lot of threes).  Heath is man enough to admit he can make mistakes and then he can learn from them.

Nutt came to Arkansas as good as he was ever going to be and he's amply proved that it isn't good enough.  Heath is still getting better.

[BennyBlancofromtheRock]

It's called class.  One has it, one doesn't.

Would Dale run out on the court ahead of his players, team captains, seniors and do some ridiculous goofy war dance at mid court...you betcha.
Would Stan lead the charge through the A onto the field gleefully saying look at me, look at me, notice me....never.

Would Dale take ultimate credit for everything positive and throw his players under the bus when it goes bad..yep, count on it!
Has Stan complained and put his shortcomings on his guys.....nope.

The media flat out said Stan was out of a job....did he complain or say it was hurting the team?.....not a word out of his mouth.
If the media was openly discussing Dale's replacement and had him all but packed, would he have anything to say about. it.......you could have heard the whine over the Boston Mountains.

I have not heard Stan lie, complain, gloat, cry, make excuses or any of the other numerous things our football coach practices daily.

The difference, plain and simple folks is class.  Poor Dale isn't smart enough to realize that his schtick has wearried the masses of the hog Nation and we are not ever and I mean ever going to jump back on his bandwagon.

 

brilliantly stated +1

[hogsrmyfav36]

The PTB leaked the info that Heath was going to get canned for 1 reason only, declining ticket sales and empty seats in Bud Walton. (That means declining revenue) The seats are still getting filled at Razorback Stadium and War Memorial and that's why we still have the Nuttster even though his teams underachieve. 

I'm truly being convinced that $$ and ticket sales are the only things the PTB care about, not winning or championships.

[slopinhogs]

i think is has to do with who the coach is.

[BennyBlancofromtheRock]

The PTB leaked the info that Heath was going to get canned for 1 reason only, declining ticket sales and empty seats in Bud Walton. (That means declining revenue) The seats are still getting filled at Razorback Stadium and War Memorial and that's why we still have the Nuttster even though his teams underachieve. 

I'm truly being convinced that $$ and ticket sales are the only things the PTB care about, not winning or championships.

insightful...I had forgotten that...it is truly all about the Benjamins!

[hogbros]

So, as long as we make the tourney every year, meaning that we are supposedly one of the top 65 teams in the country each year, even if we lose in the first round every year, that is not mediocre, that is acceptable becasue it is basketball?

No. its not acceptable at all.  However is it OK to have 2 losing seasons and get a raised on the third? Or is it O.K to have no BCS bid or bowl games the last 9 years?  Im wondering if that is the definition of mediocre or may failure.

[DEVIL DOG HOG]

The BB hogs are not experienced as 3 of the 5 starters were not Hogs last season.

[Pork Twain]

The BB hogs are not experienced as 3 of the 5 starters were not Hogs last season.

SO!!!  How much experience did the Gator players have last year.  The excuses get old.

[arsuperhog]

Here's a double-standard for you: Until Nutt was forced to hire an offensive coordinator, his teams, with the exception of 1998 when he was using someone else's players, were average at best, often finishing 7-4 or 8-3 and making a mediocre bowl game.  Bring in an offensive coordinator, and the Hogs win 10 games, and have a shot at a national championship until Nutt takes over playcalling and messing everything up.  For these efforts, Nuttsack gets a contract extension and a raise.
The basketball coach wins 20 games, what is considered to be very good in basketball, in back to back years and makes two consecutive NCAA tournaments and is threatened to be fired.  That's your double-standard.

[Pork Twain]

I thought Gus was not calling the plays.

Two wrongs do not make a right.  Cutting your ties to one bad coach is good cutting them with two is great.

[madjudge]

It's called class.  One has it, one doesn't.

Would Dale run out on the court ahead of his players, team captains, seniors and do some ridiculous goofy war dance at mid court...you betcha.
Would Stan lead the charge through the A onto the field gleefully saying look at me, look at me, notice me....never.

Would Dale take ultimate credit for everything positive and throw his players under the bus when it goes bad..yep, count on it!
Has Stan complained and put his shortcomings on his guys.....nope.

The media flat out said Stan was out of a job....did he complain or say it was hurting the team?.....not a word out of his mouth.
If the media was openly discussing Dale's replacement and had him all but packed, would he have anything to say about. it.......you could have heard the whine over the Boston Mountains.

I have not heard Stan lie, complain, gloat, cry, make excuses or any of the other numerous things our football coach practices daily.

The difference, plain and simple folks is class.  Poor Dale isn't smart enough to realize that his schtick has wearried the masses of the hog Nation and we are not ever and I mean ever going to jump back on his bandwagon.

 

Ditto

[Tmac813]

Would someone please explain to me how playing in the SEC Championship game in Football and Basketball is mediocre?  I don't think there is a double standard when it comes to SH.  It just seems that his teams lack the toughness to compete night in and night out.  That is why they lose to teams they should beat.

I'm actually glad the Razorbacks have made the tournament, but honestly comparing football and basketball is still a mixed bag.  Razorback basketball has a much recent tradition of success than football.  I seen a caption on ESPN where Arkansas was the ninth rated team in history for Final Four appearances in the tournament that is pretty good when you think of all the teams in Div-1A. 

I wish the negativity would stop until the Razorbacks at least lose in the NCAA tournament.  Has it ever occur ed to anyone that maybe these players, both football and basketball enjoy playing for the coaches that us fans frequently attack?  Look at the players response to the possibility of losing their coach.  Immediately they started to pick up their intensity.  I think SH's learning curve is taking to long for impatient fans.  Rightfully so...

[BennyBlancofromtheRock]

Regarding their late-season surge coinciding with the speculation pressure on Heath, the players said their coach made sure to make the game " not about him. "

" He's a humble coach, " Arkansas junior forward Sonny Weems of West Memphis said. " He told us it's not about him. It's about us. Do we want our season to end ?"

Heath waved off personal vindication.


this is the difference

[hawaiianhogster]

The basketball team just made it into the 65 team field. We went .500 in the SEC with a bunch of experienced players. That being said Hog fans are eccstatic. As I see it, this team is equivilant to a football team who went 4-4 in the SEC and 3-1 in Non Conference, so a 7-5 team that had to win their last 3 games to make a bowl game. They ended up in the independence Bowl.

My question is this. Why do I hear the masses complaining about us accepting mediocrity during Football season, but applauding mediocrity in basketball?

Where is the disconnect? Seems like a double standard, when in reality, given our tradition we should be much more competitive in basketball anyway.

If football had a playoff the Razorbacks would have been a 3 seed. Our basketball team is blessed to be a 12 seed, yet a majority of the fan base is upset with the progress of the football team and happy about the baskatball team?

I don't get it.

no need to read past the first line. explain the experience part.

[hawaiianhogster]

There is no use in trying to inform guys like you..You live in Nuttyworld...Nothing that the man has done to this point has made any impact on you..Nutt is a god to nutthuggers...End of story..Stan has more class and honesty in his pinky finger than Nutt will ever have...Huggers will do ANYTHING to make excuses for their boy.

Unbelievable....

Not really.

[kgr]

It's called class.  One has it, one doesn't.

Would Dale run out on the court ahead of his players, team captains, seniors and do some ridiculous goofy war dance at mid court...you betcha.
Would Stan lead the charge through the A onto the field gleefully saying look at me, look at me, notice me....never.

Would Dale take ultimate credit for everything positive and throw his players under the bus when it goes bad..yep, count on it!
Has Stan complained and put his shortcomings on his guys.....nope.

The media flat out said Stan was out of a job....did he complain or say it was hurting the team?.....not a word out of his mouth.
If the media was openly discussing Dale's replacement and had him all but packed, would he have anything to say about. it.......you could have heard the whine over the Boston Mountains.

I have not heard Stan lie, complain, gloat, cry, make excuses or any of the other numerous things our football coach practices daily.

The difference, plain and simple folks is class.  Poor Dale isn't smart enough to realize that his schtick has wearried the masses of the hog Nation and we are not ever and I mean ever going to jump back on his bandwagon.

 

I agree 100%; but, please don't use Class and Nutt in the same post, as they are mutually exclusive terms.

[DriveByHogger]

So, when the folks who want the coach gone can't complain about the on field performance they have to resort to off the field issues to make their case?

Mediocrity is mediocrity. The Nutt haters just put their own spin on it to suit their agenda.

Why not just judge a coach by the results on the field? You all can't do it, because then you have made a case for the coach you want out and against the coach you want to keep.

On field performance; how about 7 seasons without a kicking game, 7 seasons without a passing game, lackluster recruiting?

[jbcarol]

The basketball team just made it into the 65 team field. We went .500 in the SEC with a bunch of experienced players. That being said Hog fans are eccstatic. As I see it, this team is equivilant to a football team who went 4-4 in the SEC and 3-1 in Non Conference, so a 7-5 team that had to win their last 3 games to make a bowl game. They ended up in the independence Bowl.

My question is this. Why do I hear the masses complaining about us accepting mediocrity during Football season, but applauding mediocrity in basketball?

Where is the disconnect? Seems like a double standard, when in reality, given our tradition we should be much more competitive in basketball anyway.

If football had a playoff the Razorbacks would have been a 3 seed. Our basketball team is blessed to be a 12 seed, yet a majority of the fan base is upset with the progress of the football team and happy about the baskatball team?

I don't get it.

I was sitting nationally (far removed from the day-to-day goings on and local reporting).  I was intrigued and celebrating successes but only getting to see USC, Auburn, and Tennessee games live.  My feelings were extremely positive and hopeful for some end-of-run success.  I was extremely curious why the SID was putting out virtually zero promotion on D-MAC for Heisman.  The gauntlet had been thrown down by the ESPN experts that Arkansas, Florida, LSU, etc. were not on par with OSU (Herbstreit's alma mater), Michigan, etc.  The battle was on to see who was right.  LSU game was a huge downer and leaving questions open about the 2-minute drill and ability to beat a great team in a close one.

Then we receive an alert that "Little League parents" had sour grapes that a Heisman candidate and his complimentary back were getting the touches and not their kids.  Reported just that way unanimously.  So I took the position it's my little job to do.  Take the opposing position and ask the question:  "What if the opposing storyline actually has some merit, all is not as it seems, and check the facts."  I thank this board for putting forth theories that made this a lot easier to do remotely.

We watch painful endings to the Florida and Wisconsin games in the midst of controversy and investigation.  Then you see Florida stomp OSU and you see what could have been had been lost.  Arkansas had the best talent in the country and let it slip away.

Upon review the conclusion was:  At the best Arkansas football has internal control issues and an "Old School" attitude about running a football program that hurt its chances at the end.  More plausible that a personal vendetta and lack of cohesion demonstrated out the coaching staff created distraction that most likely cost the Razorbacks late season games.

That's why I don't prefer the phrase acceptance of mediocrity.  Arkansas recruited the talent, had highly skilled athletes that were well coached in many key positions.  Except the ones that win close ball games against great teams.

There is a category of fans who accept the coaching staff as is operating as they will with the great talent being a reason to feel great.  A few losses at the end of the season.  No problem.

There are two categories of fans who have great loyalty to either the current coach and his choices of staff and will back him to the end.  There is category that have great loyalty to former players and a former assistant and will back them to the end.  Neither will be moved.

There is a category of fan who wants the internal control and lack of class issues solved one way or the other due to the other risk factor:  NCAA probation.

There is a category, maybe the blessed category, who just pick up the paper, turn on the radio and occasionally watch a game on TV and are blissfully unaware of any issue.  Ignorance (not a derogatory term in this context) is bliss.

[jbcarol]

The basketball team just made it into the 65 team field. We went .500 in the SEC with a bunch of experienced players. That being said Hog fans are eccstatic. As I see it, this team is equivilant to a football team who went 4-4 in the SEC and 3-1 in Non Conference, so a 7-5 team that had to win their last 3 games to make a bowl game. They ended up in the independence Bowl.

My question is this. Why do I hear the masses complaining about us accepting mediocrity during Football season, but applauding mediocrity in basketball?

Where is the disconnect? Seems like a double standard, when in reality, given our tradition we should be much more competitive in basketball anyway.

If football had a playoff the Razorbacks would have been a 3 seed. Our basketball team is blessed to be a 12 seed, yet a majority of the fan base is upset with the progress of the football team and happy about the baskatball team?

I don't get it.

Arkansas' football team accomplished more nationally than Arkansas' basketball team this year as of today  (The tournament has not started yet, that's why they play the games).  Most likely this will still be true when the Hawgs have completed making their best b-ball run.  If Arkansas basketball makes the Sweet 16 they are Even Steven.

A nit-pick on your comparison analogy and you can nit-pick mine.  I think Alabama's football season was close to parallel to Alabama's basketball season.  The football team was in the Independence Bowl.  The basketball team is not in the NCAA tournament.

About half the D-1 football teams go to a bowl.  About one in five basketball teams go to the NCAA Tournament.

Another whole alternative (from afar) is to watch a team not expected to go anywhere do what they had to do at the end and qualify for the tournament.

Something to enjoy and celebrate.

Let the coaching change discussions continue after a brief pause in the action, for some action ...

[jaredndockery]

I am tired of the, "well he lost three players".  Guess what, we replaced them with better players.  Good teams replace great players every year and just keep on rolling.  Why can't we???

Two points:

1. While Beverley-Weems-Ervin may indeed be "better" than Brewer-Modica-Ferguson (a debatable point, but one I'm inclined to concede), the new guys were indeed new to the program this year and had neither played with each other nor with our experienced big men. Talent alone does not make a great team (or else the Yankees or Mets would win every World Series). A team must have chemistry, but chemistry does not happen overnight. It would appear that our team never really began to gel until the last couple of games of the regular season. Heath's having to replace three key players was a legitimate point to be brought up in his defense.

2. The Razorbacks are assured of going as deep in the NCAA Tourney as they did last year, so Heath has overcome the obstacle that replacing three key players posed. To that extent, I suppose the Hogs have "just kept on rolling" this season. Who knows? The Razorbacks might even go farther in the tourney this year than they did last year.

Or, for that matter, farther than Bill Self has gone in each of the last two...

[d1nonlyhogfan]

The PTB leaked the info that Heath was going to get canned for 1 reason only, declining ticket sales and empty seats in Bud Walton. (That means declining revenue) The seats are still getting filled at Razorback Stadium and War Memorial and that's why we still have the Nuttster even though his teams underachieve. 

I'm truly being convinced that $$ and ticket sales are the only things the PTB care about, not winning or championships.

That's about to change; Frank Broyle$ has one foot out the door.

[d1nonlyhogfan]

The difference is that Stan has improved every year, and done it with class.

Houston had his best year in his first year then 8 years later he lucks up with a ten win season but still no BCS and suddenly all his forgiven despite the fact that he is an a poor ambassador for the University and the State. If hooten got to stay after two years of garbage and Stan heath get's the boot after two better years than nutt's that would truly be the double standard.

Run and tell somebody!

You got it!

[d1nonlyhogfan]

I am tired of the, "well he lost three players".  Guess what, we replaced them with better players.

Maybe players with more potential, but they are younger and inexperienced. Why did everyone just expect to win the West, the SEC, and the NCAAT with a couple of juniors and a bunch of freshman the season after losing our top 3 scorers?

[BrooklynRoss]

As I see it, this team is equivilant to a football team who went 4-4 in the SEC and 3-1 in Non Conference, so a 7-5 team that had to win their last 3 games to make a bowl game. They ended up in the independence Bowl.

It's not a straight analogy. What we really want is for both teams to have the opportunity to play for a national championship. In theory, the basketball team has done just that. Obviously, they're a complete and total long shot, but the fact remains that they have a chance. It doesn't work that way in football since there's no playoff system.

[stevenglennn]

Stevenglenn. I hear what you are saying, and we could debate it all day long, however you have to admit that some mediocre teams get in the tourney each year, just like mediocre teams play in bowl games.

My original point is that Nutt's performance this year was far superior to Heath's yet heath is praised and Nutt is hated.

Yes I agree with you here.  Please forgive me as I missed your original point, and I agree.  Thank you for the clarification.  I just don't get it, how both Coaches can't be praised for a good job this year.  It took Stan's team sometime to come together, but they did and lookout USC.