Would you like to see Arkansas in the Big 12 or SEC

[Jellohawg]

With all the turmoil that has surrounded the Uof A Athletic Dept, I think it would be VERY SAFE to say that the SEC is not happy with us!  We need to Act like we belong to the BEST CONFERENCE in the USA!!

[Hong Kong Sooey]

I am for moving to the Big 12.  Not because I think the competition is too tough in the SEC.  The Big 12 is just as tough at the top.  But because of natural rivalries and recruiting.  It is a lot easier to recruit Texas when you play there a few times a year.  Arkansas will never be a perennial national contender again until we return to recruiting Texas well.  We will also never develop a real rival in the SEC.  The teams we most want to be rivals with already have long standing rivalries that mean more to them than Arkansas ever will.  We fit in the Big 12.  We never have in the SEC.

[tmp]

First, let me say that I'm not pro-Nutt. They should have let him get on that plane for Nebraska. It's sad that he's going on 10 years at Arkansas. But, Frank made a mistake going to the SEC. Arkansas should be in the Big 12 South. After playing Texas and Texas A&M all those years, to just throw away that much tradition takes something away from the two big money sports.

And all the chest thumping about being in the SEC is weak. Conference smack is for losers.  Win the games no matter who the opponent.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

I wouldnt want Arkansas to be the only team moving but if there was conference restructuring then i wouldnt have a problem.

Oh and we dont have to change conferences for natural rivalry games. We could just schedule them non conference.

[bcshog]

Don't get me wrong, I love the SEC, but I think we are a better fit in the Big 12.  We have a natural rival in Texas and we always seem to get up for that game.  I am pretty sure that if we would have went to the Big 12 instead of the SEC, we would have several conference championships under our belt.  However, if we can get a big name coach who can actually recruit with the best of the SEC, I say stay where we are.

[mountainhog]

nutt would be about 500 no matter which conference we were playing in.

[Richard_white]

I am for moving to the Big 12.  Not because I think the competition is too tough in the SEC.  The Big 12 is just as tough at the top.  But because of natural rivalries and recruiting.  It is a lot easier to recruit Texas when you play there a few times a year.  Arkansas will never be a perennial national contender again until we return to recruiting Texas well.  We will also never develop a real rival in the SEC.  The teams we most want to be rivals with already have long standing rivalries that mean more to them than Arkansas ever will.  We fit in the Big 12.  We never have in the SEC.

Weird, I agree.

[momahog]

What's embarrassing is to have had Crowe, Ford & Nutt these last 14 long years
of competition in the SEC.  We went in, in 1992 pitabily weak from the lack of recruiting by Ken Hatfield in 88' & 89'.  We never really recovered with these poor excuses for Coaches.

If Broyles had put his ego aside for awhile, we could have had Butch or Wing Nut
(Tuberville) some 12-14 years ago and all this grief we're going through now and over the last 14 years could have possibly been avoided.

But back to the main question, Oklahoma, Okie State, Mizzou, Kansas and Kansas
State would all be bus drives thus saving much money and we would have our blood rival back, Texass. The crooked politicians that chose to place the UofA way up in that corner of the State is what has caused the UofA to be a more geographical
and socieological fit for the BIG 12, than the SEC.

[NuttinItUp]

It won't ever happen, but the Big 12 would be better for recruiting and rivalries.

[VenturaHog]

the only teams that i care about playing in the big 12 are texass and oklahomo. Not nearly enough reason to stop playing SEC teams, SEC football is so much more fun and exciting.

Moving to the big 12 would be a step down and we all know it. And, as has been said before, we could easily schedule more non confrence Texass teams instead of trying to win the sunbelt.

[jbcarol]

SEC all they way....but replace our jr high football coach...with a D1 football coach...

Quit bad mouthing junior high coaches like that!  There may be some on this board.

Do you know where the Avatar photo was taken   I remember seeing something similar to that happen at the Wild Animal Safari in Gentry   I agree that the Jr. High coaches don't need to summarily or individually attacked on this site and that's what I was seeing.

[jbcarol]

If the U of A was stupid enough to go back to the Big 12, it would be embarassing.

I can hear it now..."Arkansas couldn't hack it in the SEC. No SEC titles, no BCS games. Better luck in the Big 12."

Go back to the Big 12?  I don't remember us ever being in the Big 12, or Big 8 for that matter, unless I am just missing something. 

I would love it if we were in the Big 12.  For 70 something years (or however long it was) we played the same teams.  We built rivalries that meant something, then 15 years ago we stopped playing them and I haven't felt the same kind of thing during our conference schedule since then. 

Also, playing in the Big 12 I think would help recruiting.  Look at it like this, two of the top states for recruits are Texas and Flordia.  We are at an immediate disadvantage to recruits in Flordia because we are so far away.  Then on top of that, we are going down to those kids and asking them to leave all that sunshine and beaches and come live in Fayetteville, Ark for the next four years of their life.  So, the place that is best for us to recruit is Texas.  We are close to Texas, so we go to these Texas kids and try to convince them to play for us.  Well, in the past, when we were in the SWC, these kids might get to play in their home state 4 times a year.  Now though, we are asking them to travel with us east, and not ever get to play in Texas.  Well, except for when we go to the Cotton Bowl every other year.  So I think if we could somehow switch to the Big 12, even though I know it will never happen, it would be a positive move.

Mergers and acquisitons.  Many of the former SWC merged with the Big 8 to get you the Big 12.

[jbcarol]

Aren't we already in the sunbelt?  I mean, we play 4 of their football teams every year....

Let's see, we're playing half the Sunbelt on a rotating basis.

And Arkansas State, which opens against Texas in '07, is slowly playing its way through the Big 12.

While Louisiana-Monroe tries to be an honorary SEC member. 

Arkansas does not catch ASU in the Sunbelt schedule do they.  Maybe that would be in the cards now that there is a change at the top.  Don't want to start a debate.  Think of the benefits.

[jbcarol]

Actually, I'd rather see the Big 12 drop Baylor and add The Hogs to the Big 12 South.  That makes more sense geographically in terms of travel and recruiting.

That's a good call or you could be like the "Big 10", have 13 teams and still call it the "Big 12".  I can see the promo that runs at halftime.  "While our math departments are not nationally ranked, we provide the student a superior environment for sports entertainment.  The Big 10."

[jbcarol]

I will be true to the original poster and pollster.  He said Big 12 - North.  Strategic decision.

First count the cost.  What's revenue sharing SEC vs. Big 12?  Is Arkansas gaining or giving in that relationship currently and how would that flip moving North (or do you care)?

Second, the rivals everyone wants to renew with play in the South but the North is easy pickings for the mythical "Big 12 - North Championship and Ring Ceremony".  At least until Nebraska can pull it back together.  You go Big 12 North, you don't play Texas, Oklahoma, or the old SWC every year.  I don't recall in the Big 12 if you play a natural (or unnatural) rival every year (like SEC) or if it is a straight rotation in cross-division games.  You will play Texas at home, maybe every four years.

Third, the SEC will always break your heart in football.  Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and Tennessee are on the inside.  Florida bought their way into the club in the 90's.  LSU is on the verge of getting into the club.  Ole Miss used to be there but now it's just a cool place to tailgate.  The Mississippi schools, Kentucky, Vandy, South Carolina, and Arkansas are on the outside looking in.  Your cross-division rival is South Carolina.  Could there be a school any farther away?  Where was your AD?  Vandy should have been the natural rival.  If you like improving your chances of winning the division.  I think Arkansas went at least 14 years in the league without even playing Vandy.  What is up with that?  The old boys out of Birmingham were screwing us.  And the inner circle gets the calls from the refs (that's where the refs are from).  You have seen it play out.  You saw Jay Cutler and Vandy vs. Florida in the Swamp.  No way the refs were going to let Vandy win, reduce Florida's National stature and reduce the revenue sharing plan from which even Vandy would benefit.  Blatant.

The SEC will break your heart.  Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl this year.  First thing he ever won in football since High School.  Four straight years of great Tennessee teams but he could not beat Spurrier in like Game 3 each year so no division championship.  So you play the rest of the year out hoping two other teams can defeat Florida.  Comes back for Senior Year.  No Heisman.  Did he deserve it?  You bet, but the competition keeps the stats down.  Probably prepared him for the NFL better than anywhere else would have.  Regardless of resources we will always be just keeping up as the stakes get higher and they bring in more big money coaches like Saban.  That's why this last year was such a frustration, so close, but I won't go back there, here

What I would miss is the Arkansas-Kentucky basketball rivalry of the good ol' days (not current).  I almost bet a guy a million bucks yesterday on this board that Arkansas would hold off Vandy and win.  Then Mrs. jb reminded me that I swore off betting ever again after Nolan walked into Rupp Arena the first time and put it on KY.  My pay off for that sure thing that went south was the privilege of getting to address University students in Kentucky with a Hog Hat squarely on my head.  I think have finally confiscated all the pictures but with the Internet you never know.  The best games in SEC history were played between these two teams.  It was Super Bowl Sunday stuff.

If we could move to the Big 12 (13), you pick the geography, and just keep the home and home with KY in basketball.  Just in case it gets back to that level, ever again.  And by the way KY belongs in the ACC.  Weak football.  Great basketball.  Coast?  Not Atlantic but they tell me that due to TVA created lakes KY has more coastline than Florida.  My folks live on a part of the KY coast so I can buy that.

[cosmodrum]

I am for moving to the Big 12.  Not because I think the competition is too tough in the SEC.  The Big 12 is just as tough at the top.  But because of natural rivalries and recruiting.  It is a lot easier to recruit Texas when you play there a few times a year.  Arkansas will never be a perennial national contender again until we return to recruiting Texas well.  We will also never develop a real rival in the SEC.  The teams we most want to be rivals with already have long standing rivalries that mean more to them than Arkansas ever will.  We fit in the Big 12.  We never have in the SEC.

I agree, as far as the recruiting and natural rivalries go. I just like the idea of getting to the top of the "premier football conference." Just haven't done it yet. Also, I think the LSU rivalry would actually mean to them what it means to us if they weren't the ones who are solely resonsible for dusting the Golden Boot.

[RedRock]

I say we move to AAAAAA Northwest.  Afterall, we have a high school football coach.  Our new rival would be Springdale High School.  Rick Schaffer would go crazy!

[HawgWyld]

SEC.
The best football in the land is played there.
The pro-houstonnutters want to move to the Big-12 to make it easier on their idol and help save his job.

Not exactly. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is as disgusted with Houston Nutt as I am, but I'd love to see the Hogs play the likes of Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Nebraska every year. The SEC is a fantastic conference, and there's no arguing that. However, I can't help but think we're a better fit in the Big 12 due to geographic location, recruiting opportunities and etc.

[jamie72921]

There is more talent East of the Mississippi than there is West of it, that is in our reach.

Louisianna, Florida, and Mississippi have more talent than Texas, though Texas has a lot. When did we ever get the best out of Texas anyway? Never.

The problem is, that we haven't mined the fertile recruiting grounds we are in at all. Arkansas used to have some outstanding ties to Mississippi highschools, but no more. There is more than enough from Louisianna to go around, but again, we have no presence. Same for Florida.

Moving to the Big 12 would do nothing positive for our program in terms of recruiting.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

SEC baby, I hate the Big 12 outside of AM,Texas,OU it boring, and I rather be 6-6 in the SEC than be 8-4 in the Big 12 or better.  SEC is the premier league in football and has the history to back it up. I like that I have no interest in playing Baylor,Iowa State,Nebraska,Colorado,etc Baylor.

The SEC is the premier conference for football in the East and West combined, but it is all about money and in football today, it is all about revenue sharing across an entire conference. There might not be an loss suffered by going to the Big 12 North and if you want more competition, get rid of Baylor and move into the Big 12 South. That might be a really strong conference with Arkansas, OU, OSU, Texas, Texas Tech and Texas A&M competitng every year for the Big 12 South. Arkansas' recruiting base would be strengthened and fans would find it easier traveling to most away games.

Just my take.

[DEVIL DOG HOG]

If the SEC is the premier conference than why does it have trouble beating the Big Ten, last season SEC won 1 and lost 3 to the Big Ten. However Flordia won the big game.

[kuhog]

I'm all for Arkansas becoming a better team. In order to do so, we need to recruit better players(no mystery there). The nearest recruiting bed we have, is the state of Texas, but yet we can not effectively recruit from there. Why? Because we play in the SEC. Playing in the SEC does not allow Texas recruits an opportunity to play in their home state. Whether you believe it or not, playing in your home state is a strong recruiting tool.

I think we could become a perennial power if we played in the Big 12. Not "just" because the competition is weaker, but because we would be able to recruit better athletes. Which would result in a stronger Razorback team.

Due to our proximity of other SEC programs, we have recruiting issues. The results are quite obvious: we have a couple of decent seasons every 3-4 years. In the Big 12, we would be much more consistent. All because of recruiting.

Simply put: playing in the Big 12 would give us a better opportunity to be on par with any premiere program in the SEC. Also, Arkansas might very well be the program the Big 12 is missing to overtake the mighty SEC.

Personally, I would like to see Arkansas stay in the SEC if they are able to compete on a regular basis. However, I don't see us ever becoming a consistent top 15 program in this conference.

[tenhog]

We need to stay in the SEC. Can't afford the pay cut in the Big 12. The money and the prestige is in the SEC!!!!

[holtzhog]

Absolutely

[HawgWyld]

There is more talent East of the Mississippi than there is West of it, that is in our reach.

Louisianna, Florida, and Mississippi have more talent than Texas, though Texas has a lot. When did we ever get the best out of Texas anyway? Never...

Last I checked, Louisiana was also west of the Mississippi...

[HawgWyld]

We need to stay in the SEC. Can't afford the pay cut in the Big 12. The money and the prestige is in the SEC!!!!

Nonsense. Check the conference payouts in both conferences. The premier teams in the Big 12 get about as much as SEC schools do. The difference is, the crap teams that don't contribute anything in terms of bowl appearances and the like don't get as much revenue from the Big 12. That actually seems pretty equitable -- do-nothing teams don't get as much as, say, Texas or Texas A&M.

[MissouriFan]

The two senarios I would like to see the Big 12 do would never happen.  First kick out Baylor and Colorado and replace them with

Option One
Illinois to the North
Arkansas to the South

North
Illinois
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

South
Arkansas
Oklahoma State
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M

That league would really be a monster in basketball.  Plus adding the Chicago Market would give some serious leverage with the Networks.  Houston and Chicago are I believe the fourth and third largest metro areas.  But there is no way the Illini leave the Big 10.

Option 2
Arkansas to the North
LSU to the South

North
Arkansas
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Missouri
Nebraska

South
LSU
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
Texas A&M

Both divisions would improve but the South would become an even bigger monster.  I don't see anyway that LSU would leave the SEC.


At the very least replacing either Colorado in the North or Baylor n the South with Arkansas would be a great addition.

Baylor has never really been competitive and Colorado has miss-managed their Athletic Department for years.  They are now down to the minimum number of sports to remain Division One and their facilities are falling behind the rest of the Big 12.  The athletic department recently barrowed several million from the school, I believe it may have been as much as $12 million.  The rest of the schools have been spending Millions upgrading their facilities and are in an arms race at the moment.

[msudawgs64]

There is more talent East of the Mississippi than there is West of it, that is in our reach.

Louisianna, Florida, and Mississippi have more talent than Texas, though Texas has a lot. When did we ever get the best out of Texas anyway? Never...

Last I checked, Louisiana was also west of the Mississippi...

well parts of it, hell the majority of it, but Baton Rouge is east of it.

[The real Hogules]

I never have and never will be in favor of a move to the Big 12, they are a second tier conference.

The SEC is one of the premierconferences in the entire country, so why move to the Big 12???

Why not just hire coaches that are capable of recruiting athletes tha can compete (and NO, Nutt is NOT the man for the job) in the SEC and carve out a niche for ourselves in this conference, as opposed to running away from the competition?

My choice is SEC ALL the way!

[Frank and Swine]

at first I would say no way lets stay in the SEC but

I say it would be pretty fun to play Texas and Oklahoma every year.

Of the direction our program is going, we may not win against those guys anyway.

Yeah, I kinda understand what you are saying.  I LOVE the strength of the SEC and it is also good for us financially.  But, it is interesting to read that other thread about who our rival is and who considers us a rival.  The fact is that we don't have a true rival in the SEC and nobody considers us their rival. 

The SEC is great, and is the best conference in America, but we do have more rivals in the big 12.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want to leave the SEC, but some of the matchups in the big 12 are appealing. 

Who is our true rival in the Big 12? No one there considers us a rival. We always hated the Texas schools and considered them rivals, but they don't feel the same towards us. The same is true in the SEC. We have more history in the old SWC and that is all.  We will not form a rivalry with anyone until we can consistently win the big games and championships regardless of the conference.

[SirCHog]

Since 1992 the first generation of SEC Razorback Fans have matured and I believe we're seeing the first ever UA student population as nevering knowing the SWC, only the SEC.  I'm sure they "don't get it" when these discussions surface.  We will stay in the SEC but like you guys, I've also contemplated the notion of moving to the Big 12 to re-establish our old rivalries.  That's water under the bridge now and what Arkansas has to do is consistently beat LSU for a few years in a row (or just beat them in Baton Rouge) and we'll have a wonderful rivalry every November...one that will probably establish the West winner every year.  It'll just take time for this student body to become 10 year, 20 year alumnist.   

[jbcarol]

Let me make the point again to add to my commentary below.  The SEC will often break your heart and to some it seems that way for 2006 football.  But that wasn't the case was it?  We were right there and the Mafiaosa part of the staff decided there were more things important than an NC.  The SEC did not break the Hawgs heart this year.  Maybe it was just arrogance.  I imagined a conversation like this.

Coach 1:  "I don't this I don't like this at all, something needs to be done."
Coach 2:  "Coach, I can get some guys together and 'earn you a little respect'."
Coach 3:  "I can get someone to send an e-mail and shake him up."
Coach 4:  "Hey guys, we are this close to taking it all and may be in the NC game.  Wouldn't this cause a distraction?"
Coach 5:  Never got to hear his comment.  He was not present.
Coach 2:  "We can have it all.  Let's make it happen!"
Coach 3:  "I'm on it."
Coach 1:  "Thanks guys. We a tight group.  You are so loyal.  Let's not that let go of that rope."


The SEC will break your heart.  Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl this year.  First thing he ever won in football since High School.  Four straight years of great Tennessee teams but he could not beat Spurrier in like Game 3 each year so no division championship.  So you play the rest of the year out hoping two other teams can defeat Florida.  Comes back for Senior Year.  No Heisman.  Did he deserve it?  You bet, but the competition keeps the stats down.  Probably prepared him for the NFL better than anywhere else would have.  Regardless of resources we will always be just keeping up as the stakes get higher and they bring in more big money coaches like Saban.  That's why this last year was such a frustration, so close, but I won't go back there, here

[rcowen]

Gotta stay in the SEC.

Premier college football here... 

[NWASooner]

Arkansas football fans believe in many myths.  Two of them are:

1.  The SEC makes significantly more money than the Big 12.  It paid a lot better than the SWC so everyone here thinks the Big 12 is the same.  The difference breaks down to about $1 million per school.  That's it.

2.  The SEC is worlds better than the Big 12 in football.  Houston Nutt is .500 in the SEC over 10 years and he'd be about .500 in the Big 12 during that stretch of time.  That tells me the two conferences are about the same.  Some years one is better than the other but that's about it.

[jbcarol]

Arkansas football fans believe in many myths.  Two of them are:

1.  The SEC makes significantly more money than the Big 12.  It paid a lot better than the SWC so everyone here thinks the Big 12 is the same.  The difference breaks down to about $1 million per school.  That's it.

2.  The SEC is worlds better than the Big 12 in football.  Houston Nutt is .500 in the SEC over 10 years and he'd be about .500 in the Big 12 during that stretch of time.  That tells me the two conferences are about the same.  Some years one is better than the other but that's about it.

what if hawgs were in big 12 north as thread-starter suggested?  play all north teams each yr and rotate thru the south div  ?  still .500 across last decade ?

more importantly what would satisfy the hawg nation?

[NWASooner]

what if hawgs were in big 12 north as thread-starter suggested?  play all north teams each yr and rotate thru the south div  ?  still .500 across last decade ?

Yes.  The North isn't that good now but in the first five years of the Big 12, the North was a monster.  At one point, Nebraska was #1 in the country and K-State was #2.  Colorado was also a Top 15 team that year, I believe.

[Pigskin_Porker]

Stay and upgrade our coaches so we can win more.

[jbcarol]

what if hawgs were in big 12 north as thread-starter suggested?  play all north teams each yr and rotate thru the south div  ?  still .500 across last decade ?

Yes.  The North isn't that good now but in the first five years of the Big 12, the North was a monster.  At one point, Nebraska was #1 in the country and K-State was #2.  Colorado was also a Top 15 team that year, I believe.

Good point. 

[M6]

NWASooner. You never played college football on the road. Ever had to go to mississippi state. It's a long road there. You end up on the bus 5 times longer than you play the game. You get there and can't hear the count because of the cowbells. Ever get spit on at LSU by the atmospheric tiger fans. Try putting on an Arkansas Jersey and attending a football game at Kentucky. The reason arkansas won at SC is because Casey and Marcus were able to rise above. Not because it wasn't a factor.

[jbcarol]

NWASooner. You never played college football on the road. Ever had to go to mississippi state. It's a long road there. You end up on the bus 5 times longer than you play the game. You get there and can't hear the count because of the cowbells. Ever get spit on at LSU by the atmospheric tiger fans. Try putting on an Arkansas Jersey and attending a football game at Kentucky. The reason arkansas won at SC is because Casey and Marcus were able to rise above. Not because it wasn't a factor.

If you went to a KY game last year you could have called the ticket office and asked what time the game starts.  The reply would be, "What time would you like it to start, Mr. M6?"  Jersey we don't care what kind of jersey you wear as long as you buy a ticket.

[NWASooner]

NWASooner. You never played college football on the road. Ever had to go to mississippi state. It's a long road there. You end up on the bus 5 times longer than you play the game. You get there and can't hear the count because of the cowbells. Ever get spit on at LSU by the atmospheric tiger fans. Try putting on an Arkansas Jersey and attending a football game at Kentucky. The reason arkansas won at SC is because Casey and Marcus were able to rise above. Not because it wasn't a factor.

The "scene" is totally overrated.  A&M is just as loud as any place in the SEC.  (College Gameday backs this up.)  They've totally blown ass at home since RC's last year.  They lose in College Station all the time.  South Carolina has a great home field scene and they went 0-11 one year.  That tells me the whole "SEC game day scene" is overrated.  It's fun but the teams don't play any better.

Meanwhile in the 90's, Miami was winning national titles in front of about 30,000 people and Colorado was damn good in a 50,000 seat stadium they couldn't fill.

[VoR]

I'd prefer the Big 12 South, and I am like so many others here that realize we won't take much of a hit financially, and realize there are years when the Big 12 is as good or better then the SEC, and years they are not. Bottom line is, we are a better fit with the Big 12, especially South, and no matter what, we will always be the redheaded stepchildren of the SEC. When we were in the SWC we were the redheaded stepchildren because we were the only ones from outside the state of Texas, but we always recruited decently, we also were able to do a better job recruiting La. because it wasn't that far for them to see us in a game or 2 a year.

The Big 12 as far as everything goes is really no better or worse then the SEC, but no one wants to listen to the heckles of "Couldn't handle the SEC could ya", but there are times when you have to take stock of matters and realize a marriage is no longer working and remedy the matter, then waiting for the inevitable when things get nasty.

[HognotinMemphis]

I'd rather see them go to the BCS.

[kuhog]

I'd rather see them go to the BCS.

"Amen"

[d1nonlyhogfan]

I'd rather see them go to the BCS.

Which means you'd rather have a new head coach, am I right?

9 years of Nutt = no BCS, no SECC; I don't think 9 more will change it

[piggly wiggly]

Well, Let's look at all those Big X11 North schools over the past 20+ years.  K-State is a doormat.  Yeah, they had a few big years but regression to the mean has taken place.  Colorado, the same.  Missouri, constant joke.  Iowa State, same.  Kansas, same.  The only school with a constant presence in the top 25 is Nebraska.  Arkansas, over any amount of time would be better than any of those programs, save Nebraska.

Yeah, LSU has had down years (Just like O.U.).  But, look at their bowl history,  Auburn, the same.  Arkansas, Alabama. and this is just the SEC West.  Every team in the West has played in the SEC championship game with the exception of Ole Miss.  Losts of parity.  Now that Saban has arrived, the West has gotten tougher.

In 2008 Arkansas will play:  Alabama (with Saban)
                                        Auburn
                                        LSU
                                        Texass (Big 12, I know)
                                        Florida
                                        South Carolina (With Spurrier)
                                        Florida
Hell, more than half of those are BCS teams (Maybe all).  In '09 we "Get" to add Georgia to the above mix.

There is no way in Hell O.U. will get that mix in the Big 12.  Just won't happen.  If O.U. beats texass, who else has the talent to match up with them? 

At least O.U. is adding Miami (Their not that good now but that's not O.U.'s fault).  Who is texass playing?  Baylor, Texas Tech, Colorado, Missouri, etc.  If texass beats O.U. they will probably play for the Nat'l title and at worst will be in the BCS.  That would not happen if they had to follow O.U. with LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas (Mack Brown is lucky he isn't 0-3 agains HDN!) Florida, Tenn. etc. 

You'll never convince me these conferences are Equal.

[HogFan1973]

why do people ask this question?

[NWASooner]

Well, Let's look at all those Big X11 North schools over the past 20+ years.  K-State is a doormat.  Yeah, they had a few big years but regression to the mean has taken place.  Colorado, the same.  Missouri, constant joke.  Iowa State, same.  Kansas, same.  The only school with a constant presence in the top 25 is Nebraska.  Arkansas, over any amount of time would be better than any of those programs, save Nebraska.

Yeah, LSU has had down years (Just like O.U.).  But, look at their bowl history,  Auburn, the same.  Arkansas, Alabama. and this is just the SEC West.  Every team in the West has played in the SEC championship game with the exception of Ole Miss.  Losts of parity.  Now that Saban has arrived, the West has gotten tougher.


You'll never convince me these conferences are Equal.

K-State has not been a doormat.  They started getting good in the early 90's and were damn good the rest of the decade.

On Colorado, if by a "few big years," you mean they had a Heisman winner and a national championship, then you are correct. 

Missouri is a constant 7 win team. 

As far as Arkansas "over any amount of time" being better than the North, keep in mind that during the "amount of time" that the Big 12 existed, you were losing to SMU and Kentucky, among others.  You'll be hard pressed to convince me that after losing to SMU you'd march into Manhattan and beat a Top 10 K-State team or a Colorado team with a Heisman winner.

LSU had down years "just like OU?"  That's true except LSU's down years lasted decades.  They were mediocre for a LONG time.  LSU and Georgia were two of the biggest underachieving programs in all of college football.  OU has a much better program than LSU.

[piggly wiggly]

I would counter with K-state's down-years being decades also(I mean they still are one the losingest d-1schools of all time).  As for Colorado's heisman and national prominence, that was almost 20 years ago.
I understand that teams are going to be up and down.  But, c'mon some of these big 12 north teams have been doormats for decades.  You are using the early 90's (When Arkansas was a doormat) for your only comparison.  How about Arkansas in the 60's, 70's and 80's.  How would ark. or Auburn or 'Bams or LSU faired in the North the last few years when mighty Neb. is down.

My argument (If you want to even call it that) is simple:  Over any amount of time you want to measure, I'd rather play in the big 12 north than in the SEC.  I'd wager that Arkansas would do better against:  Missouri, Iowa St., Kansas, Kansas St. and Colorado than we will do against:  Auburn, LSU, Alabama (I think we will be o.k. against the Miss. schools).  In the big 12 south we have a 70 year history (O.U. being the exception).  Texass has owned up but we have winning records over A$M (38-21), Texas Tech (We've only lost to them 7 times although they weren't in the SWC until the 60'S) and Baylor.  As far as Ok. St. , Ark. has beaten them regularly (30-15).

So, yeah, I'd rather take my chances in the big 12 north. 

By the way, I also live in NW Arkansas (Rogers).  where do you live?

[HognotinMemphis]

I'd rather see them go to the BCS.

Which means you'd rather have a new head coach, am I right?

9 years of Nutt = no BCS, no SECC; I don't think 9 more will change it

YOu would be correct on both counts.