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Lou Holtz on Carson

Started by go hogues, December 15, 2017, 02:46:27 pm

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go hogues

I've seen it mentioned many times on HV that Lou gave his infamous "not the end of the world but you can see it from there" line on Johnny Carson. There is only one episode with Lou on youtube and he doesn't say it. Was he on twice?

Thanks, I was telling a friend this story the other day and they thought it was funny, so I was going to hope to find the answer here.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

DoctorSusscrofa

It's been years since I saw it, but my recollection was that he had said that before elsewhere. He said other things on Carson and did his magic trick. The visit rubbed some people the wrong way, but might not have been fatal to Holtz' tenure if not for his other faults. (Campaigning for the infamous NC senator, not being a super recruiter, drawing lots of attention to himself, having a WHayes like temperament.)
I expect to win the games we ought to win and be competitive in as many other games as possible. - M Barton

 

TNarch

I was a much more casual fan back in the days of Holtz and never understood the reasons that the relationship with him was ended...or maybe it was because we didn't have the internet spewing out sports gossip 24/7.

jusgtohogs

Quote from: TNarch on December 15, 2017, 03:10:33 pm
I was a much more casual fan back in the days of Holtz and never understood the reasons that the relationship with him was ended...or maybe it was because we didn't have the internet spewing out sports gossip 24/7.

or maybe it was because his efforts recruiting were lacking.  additionally, my understanding was the he was told not to campaign for a NC politician and ignored that advice...

12247

I believe Broyles asked Holtz to not get involved in politics in the public domain and he did anyway, believing it was his business.  Also, in those days, Broyles felt that he could replace anyone who didn't wish to tow the company line with someone as good or better.  Many would say Hatfield was better and he did win a higher percentage than Holtz.

Calling All Hogs

The feeling by many back then was that Lou was spending too much time making national appearances and not enough time recruiting after the Orange Bowl. I thought he was great on Carson and other shows. 

snoblind

Quote from: jusgtohogs on December 15, 2017, 03:16:26 pm
or maybe it was because his efforts recruiting were lacking.  additionally, my understanding was the he was told not to campaign for a NC politician and ignored that advice...

It wasn't just a NC politician, it was Jesse Helms.  Segregationist and racist, among other things.

What the vast majority of folks who weren't around back then don't realize is it only took Holtz one round of the rubber chicken/fish fry circuit to get on the wrong side of plenty of the money folks.  His shtick didn't play well.  As long as you are winning and kicking OU's butt in the Orange Bowl they don't say much.

Slack off in recruiting, lose a few more games, and embarass a state that already had a bad reputation in race relations - that gets folks burning up Frank's phone line.

Mike Irwin

Lou Holtz wears people out. What you see here is a good example of what he's like to be around on a daily basis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctKqsJ6W8OE

sowmonella

Quote from: go hogues on December 15, 2017, 02:46:27 pm
I've seen it mentioned many times on HV that Lou gave his infamous "not the end of the world but you can see it from there" line on Johnny Carson. There is only one episode with Lou on youtube and he doesn't say it. Was he on twice?

Thanks, I was telling a friend this story the other day and they thought it was funny, so I was going to hope to find the answer here.

I believe he was on a couple of times. Once was after the Orange Bowl win. He tore up a newspaper and put it back together.
Not trying to brag or make anyone jealous but I can still fit into the same pair of socks I wore in high school.
Proud member since August 2003

Hankweb

Holtz, without Broyles's knowledge, appeared in a couple of commercials supporting Senator  Jesse Helms's re-election in North Carolina in 1983. Helms was in the midst of spearheading  the effort to prevent MLK Day becoming a national holiday. He (Holtz) was forced to resign at the end of the year.

go hogues

Quote from: Mike Irwin on December 15, 2017, 03:50:48 pm
Lou Holtz wears people out. What you see here is a good example of what he's like to be around on a daily basis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctKqsJ6W8OE
Mike, do you remember if Lou dropped the famous line on Carson or was it elsewhere?
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

Mikey

I seem to recall him making that joke on the Tonight Show too.  The appearance on YouTube is from 12/13/1978.  According to Wikipedia, the only other time Holtz was on the Tonight Show seems to have been 6/19/1981, so maybe that's the episode.  I can't find any details on that episode though.

Lanlord

My sketchy memory is someone asked him if Fayetteville was in the middle of nowhere and he replied "No but you can see it from there."

Sorry I cannot remember who asked him.

 

Mike Irwin

Quote from: go hogues on December 15, 2017, 04:07:43 pm
Mike, do you remember if Lou dropped the famous line on Carson or was it elsewhere?
It was on the Tonight Show. I saw it and thought it was no big deal at the time. In fact my only thought that night was, all these people watching him are thinking he's a really funny guy when away from the cameras he's about as funny as getting kicked in the head.

BoogaHog

Quote from: go hogues on December 15, 2017, 04:07:43 pm
Mike, do you remember if Lou dropped the famous line on Carson or was it elsewhere?

It was definitely on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: BJJHog on December 15, 2017, 04:49:52 pm
It was definitely on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show.
Would have had to have been during the latter appearance. While it wasn't immediate, the termination came within a matter of months.

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: TNarch on December 15, 2017, 03:10:33 pm
I was a much more casual fan back in the days of Holtz and never understood the reasons that the relationship with him was ended...or maybe it was because we didn't have the internet spewing out sports gossip 24/7.
This... AND JFB was having growing pains as an AD while simultaneously learning to let go of the football team... Nobody's perfect, and I believe he said how he handled Lou and Ken were two of his biggest regrets.
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

ATLHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on December 15, 2017, 03:50:48 pm
Lou Holtz wears people out. What you see here is a good example of what he's like to be around on a daily basis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctKqsJ6W8OE
FWIW- had a friend cross paths with "Angry Granny" at a charity golf outing in Columbia, SC- said he had zero patience, didn't like small talk, & preferred people to leave him the heck alone. This youtube video pretty much backs that up-

Inhogswetrust

Lou was a big jerk................until the camera's came on.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

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Porkette

That was all a little before my time, but what I've read in Razorback books and such was that Lou Holtz's one-liners were endearing enough when they were still fresh and we were winning big, but they also wore on people over time. Both aspects of that make sense to me.
GO HOGS GO!

Pigsknuckles

Quote from: TNarch on December 15, 2017, 03:10:33 pm
I was a much more casual fan back in the days of Holtz and never understood the reasons that the relationship with him was ended...or maybe it was because we didn't have the internet spewing out sports gossip 24/7.


Lou filmed two campaign ads for Jesse Helms from his office, in direct violation of University policy prohibiting the use of University imagery, property, or logo's for political promotion. Lou was already on the hot seat, and this gave Broyles the leverage he needed to force Holtz's resignation. 
"the ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"

Danimal

Quote from: Calling All Hogs on December 15, 2017, 03:45:24 pm
The feeling by many back then was that Lou was spending too much time making national appearances and not enough time recruiting after the Orange Bowl. I thought he was great on Carson and other shows.
It was rumored back then (no idea if true) that on the day Holtz was fired, Frank asked him to name 5 high school head coaches in the state of Arkansas. Lou could only name 3 before he was stumped.

Danimal

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on December 15, 2017, 05:46:48 pm
Lou was a big jerk................until the camera's came on.
That describes a lot of great coaches.

redeye

The video used to be on youtube, but I can't find it now.

One thing to remember about Holtz is that his teams were competing against cheaters or his record likely would have been better.  Even so, there was a definite drop-off under Hatfield, imo, despite Hatfield's better record.  I don't know that Hatfield was to blame, though.

 

bobohog

He mentions "the light at the end of the tunnel", starting around the 6:00 minute mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH4YQjhY-XQ

SchrodingersHog

Google "best college football coaches of all time".  I doubt you will a list that rates Broyles, or any other UoA coach, higher than Holtz.  Broyles was not the football legend that many in Arkansas want to believe, and he certainly wasn't a great AD.  He started the series of coaching changes and turmoil that led us to this point.

Wild Bill Hog

Rumor only, okay.  I worked with a former Hog cheerleader who recounted an episode with Holtz in Jackson, MS.  OM game.  He said Holtz got roaring drunk and caused such a disturbance the hotel mgmt was going to call the police.  He said the Arkansas contingement talked them out of calling the police on the promise they would control him.  He said it took the assistant coaches, cheerleaders, and etc. all to keep him controlled and in his room.  I believe this was during his last year.  Again I say this was something I was told.  I did not witness it.

redeye

Quote from: SchrodingersHog on December 15, 2017, 07:09:17 pm
Google "best college football coaches of all time".  I doubt you will a list that rates Broyles, or any other UoA coach, higher than Holtz.  Broyles was not the football legend that many in Arkansas want to believe, and he certainly wasn't a great AD.  He started the series of coaching changes and turmoil that led us to this point.

Broyles was big in his time.  The reason you may hear more about Holtz is because he led Notre Dame to a national championship and Broyles coached Arkansas.  If Holtz had instead led Arkansas to a national championship, you wouldn't hear as much about him, either.

Both were good coaches and both were among the best of their times.

flippinhogmana

Quote from: SchrodingersHog on December 15, 2017, 07:09:17 pm
Google "best college football coaches of all time".  I doubt you will a list that rates Broyles, or any other UoA coach, higher than Holtz.  Broyles was not the football legend that many in Arkansas want to believe, and he certainly wasn't a great AD.  He started the series of coaching changes and turmoil that led us to this point.

I went to the UofA while Broyles was the coach.  I was not a fan of his, really not a fan.  But then I was young, when I grew older I got a different perspective.  In the column of give the devil his due, he went up every year against every decent college team in Texas including A&M, Tech, Baylor and the Horns (they were perennially the better schools until Dallas opened the check book to SMU).  He more than held his own,  the years that we were able to beat Texas we usually won the conference.  We had no where near the budget or demographic base that some of those other schools had.  However, I dont think he can criticize others (without some hypocrisy) for extra curricular activities though - since he was the color commentator on ABC for years.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: DoctorSusscrofa on December 15, 2017, 02:57:59 pm
It's been years since I saw it, but my recollection was that he had said that before elsewhere. He said other things on Carson and did his magic trick. The visit rubbed some people the wrong way, but might not have been fatal to Holtz' tenure if not for his other faults. (Campaigning for the infamous NC senator, not being a super recruiter, drawing lots of attention to himself, having a WHayes like temperament.)
the folks of arkansas labeled him as a liberal and sent him packing.

Im playing, I have no idea. But thats my guess.
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

Mikey

Quote from: SchrodingersHog on December 15, 2017, 07:09:17 pm
Google "best college football coaches of all time".  I doubt you will a list that rates Broyles, or any other UoA coach, higher than Holtz.  Broyles was not the football legend that many in Arkansas want to believe, and he certainly wasn't a great AD.  He started the series of coaching changes and turmoil that led us to this point.

I did exactly that and the #1 hit was the site below.  Sorry, but we have some nice consolation prizes for you.

37. Broyles
44. Holtz
52. Bezdek

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/192030618/best-100-college-football-coaches-ever-top-25

redeye

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on December 15, 2017, 07:23:09 pm
the folks of arkansas labeled him as a liberal and sent him packing.

Im playing, I have no idea. But thats my guess.

That would be sorta ironic, considering Helms was a conservative.

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: redeye on December 15, 2017, 07:29:15 pm
That would be sorta ironic, considering Helms was a conservative.
why was he even involved with jesse?
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

flippinhogmana

Look the story on Broyles was that he was a no nonsense - my way or the highway sort of guy.  He clashed with Holtz (who was a whole lot better offensive coach and a better national recruiter) on two issues - both of which have been mentioned - but Holtz failed to understand that even though our state didn't produce many stellar athletes from year to year, he needed to have maintained the fence that Broyles had worked years on developing.

He made Hatfield uncomfortable with expressing his Christianity.   After the Miami loss one year (when if Atwater doesnt drop a sure interception, we would have beaten the number one ranked team) or maybe it was the next year after losing to them, His Bible verse for the show (which he always opened with) was "Jesus Wept".  Broyles all but told him not to use Bible verses in his show anymore.  Hatfield left at the end of the year.

Did Broyles learn from that?  Perhaps, many of us do from our mistakes made in the heat of passion.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

redeye

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on December 15, 2017, 07:33:37 pm
why was he even involved with jesse?

I read that he knew Helms from when he coached at NC State and Holtz said he was supporting his friend, but not his political views.  I'm not sure people bought that, because he essentially campaigned for Helms with the commercial, I believe.

Ugly Uncle

Quote from: Mikey on December 15, 2017, 07:28:38 pm
I did exactly that and the #1 hit was the site below.  Sorry, but we have some nice consolation prizes for you.

37. Broyles
44. Holtz
52. Bezdek

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/192030618/best-100-college-football-coaches-ever-top-25

As an athletic director:  Arkansas was one of only two schools that was self sufficient and running at a surplus in their athletic department.  This was obviously before all the t.v. revenue.  He built beautiful buildings and had Arkansas competitive in all sports...so...the guy was wrong with everything he said.
Retired Radio Host

Mikey

Quote from: redeye on December 15, 2017, 07:29:15 pm
That would be sorta ironic, considering Helms was a conservative.

Helms a conservative?  I'll take "Understatements of the Year" for $500 Alex.  ;)

GoldCoastHog

Quote from: flippinhogmana on December 15, 2017, 07:34:20 pm
Look the story on Broyles was that he was a no nonsense - my way or the highway sort of guy.  He clashed with Holtz (who was a whole lot better offensive coach and a better national recruiter) on two issues - both of which have been mentioned - but Holtz failed to understand that even though our state didn't produce many stellar athletes from year to year, he needed to have maintained the fence that Broyles had worked years on developing.

He made Hatfield uncomfortable with expressing his Christianity.   After the Miami loss one year (when if Atwater doesnt drop a sure interception, we would have beaten the number one ranked team) or maybe it was the next year after losing to them, His Bible verse for the show (which he always opened with) was "Jesus Wept".  Broyles all but told him not to use Bible verses in his show anymore.  Hatfield left at the end of the year.

Did Broyles learn from that?  Perhaps, many of us do from our mistakes made in the heat of passion.

The "Jesus wept.." comment was after the Texas loss in '87, and Hatfield left in January 1990 after the Cotton Bowl loss to TN. I was a sophomore on campus at the time it went down. Broyles pulled Jack Crowe off the plane headed to Clemson and hired him.

redeye

Quote from: flippinhogmana on December 15, 2017, 07:34:20 pm
Look the story on Broyles was that he was a no nonsense - my way or the highway sort of guy.  He clashed with Holtz (who was a whole lot better offensive coach and a better national recruiter) on two issues - both of which have been mentioned - but Holtz failed to understand that even though our state didn't produce many stellar athletes from year to year, he needed to have maintained the fence that Broyles had worked years on developing.

He made Hatfield uncomfortable with expressing his Christianity.   After the Miami loss one year (when if Atwater doesnt drop a sure interception, we would have beaten the number one ranked team) or maybe it was the next year after losing to them, His Bible verse for the show (which he always opened with) was "Jesus Wept".  Broyles all but told him not to use Bible verses in his show anymore.  Hatfield left at the end of the year.

Did Broyles learn from that?  Perhaps, many of us do from our mistakes made in the heat of passion.

That's all interesting.  I can understand Broyles wanting to keep the fence he built, but I think I could overlook that, if Holtz was recruiting nationally successfully.  That's essentially what Tennessee has done forever and it's worked well for them.

I'm not sure how I feel about Broyles telling Hatfield to stop with the Bible versus, but I can't say he was wrong, since Hatfield was representing the University. 

Locutus_of_Boar

Quote from: TNarch on December 15, 2017, 03:10:33 pm
I was a much more casual fan back in the days of Holtz and never understood the reasons that the relationship with him was ended...or maybe it was because we didn't have the internet spewing out sports gossip 24/7.

The best way to understand it is that Broyles always saw the Arkansas job as the ultimate objective of his career while Holtz was always something of a travelling journeyman never meant to stay any place more than a few years, even at Notre Dame.

Thus, Lou could joke about seeing the end of the world from Fayetteville and every time he said it that grated on Broyles.

Where it really got away from him was the politics.  Back in the 30's Fred Thompsen got in a lot of trouble getting into politics rasing the money to build Razorback Stadium.  Barnhill established a strong hands off politics approach and with Broyles it virtually became his religion.

Holtz had come from NC State and was heavy into NC politics, including actively supporting Jesse Helms.  When he cut a commercial for Helms that was really the last straw although Broyles waited until problems develpoed between Holtz and Arkansas HS coaches that were hurting recruiting.

Ultimately though Broyles saw that ND would come after Lou when they fired Faust and Frank didn't want to see Lou leave Arkansas for another gig so between the recuiting and the politics he pushed Holtz out before Lou could leave on his own.

Mikey

Quote from: Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter on December 15, 2017, 07:42:11 pm
As an athletic director:  Arkansas was one of only two schools that was self sufficient and running at a surplus in their athletic department.  This was obviously before all the t.v. revenue.  He built beautiful buildings and had Arkansas competitive in all sports...so...the guy was wrong with everything he said.

Yeah, I found it amusing that he started his post with "Google "best college football coaches of all time".  I doubt you will . . ."  It took me about 5 seconds to prove him wrong.  Maybe he doesn't know how to use Google.  ???

Mike Irwin

Quote from: flippinhogmana on December 15, 2017, 07:34:20 pm
Look the story on Broyles was that he was a no nonsense - my way or the highway sort of guy.  He clashed with Holtz (who was a whole lot better offensive coach and a better national recruiter) on two issues - both of which have been mentioned - but Holtz failed to understand that even though our state didn't produce many stellar athletes from year to year, he needed to have maintained the fence that Broyles had worked years on developing.

He made Hatfield uncomfortable with expressing his Christianity.   After the Miami loss one year (when if Atwater doesnt drop a sure interception, we would have beaten the number one ranked team) or maybe it was the next year after losing to them, His Bible verse for the show (which he always opened with) was "Jesus Wept".  Broyles all but told him not to use Bible verses in his show anymore.  Hatfield left at the end of the year.

Did Broyles learn from that?  Perhaps, many of us do from our mistakes made in the heat of passion.


You've got the story completely screwed up. The "Jesus wept" comment had nothing to do with why Hatfield left.

Hatfield's problems with Broyles started in Hatfield's 4th season after the 1987 Texas game which Arkansas lost on a last second play. Texas was trying to line up and get a play off with no time outs remaining when Fred Goldsmith, Arkansas defensive coordinator, called a time out. That time out allowed Texas time to get collected and call the right play which resulted in the game winning score. It was an obvious blunder.

Broyles was furious after the game. He told Hatfield that Goldsmith was a joke and needed to be fired. He also told Hatfield he would pay whatever it took to get the best defensive coordinator money could buy. Hatfield refused so Broyles went to the school chancellor seeking permission to fire Hatfield. Dan Ferritor refused so both Hatfield and Goldsmith remained.

But Frank wasn't a man to give up. He convinced Rice's AD to hire Goldsmith as head coach. Over the next two years Arkansas went to back to back Cotton bowls. Broyles did Hatfield a huge favor by getting rid of Goldsmith but he was so offended by Frank's attempt to fire him that he left for Clemson and his career went downhill after that.

Frank deserved some of the criticism he got for meddling but in most cases he knew what the hell he was doing. Goldsmith was pitiful.

TNarch

Thanks everyone for the stories and info.  I think I understand the Holtz/Broyles conflict a little better.  At the time I had been out of school a few years and was living in South Texas.  In those days, if you were out of state, there was very little news about your college teams.  Holtz and Hatfield have two of the best winning records of any Hogs coaches yet their tenures were relatively short and exits a little odd.

There are some who would say that was the SWC and it was easier than today's SEC, but in those days it was a tough conference and Arkansas had the added difficulty of being the only school from outside Texas.

flippinhogmana

Quote from: Mike Irwin on December 15, 2017, 08:07:51 pm
You've got the story completely screwed up. The "Jesus wept" comment had nothing to do with why Hatfield left.

Hatfield's problems with Broyles started in Hatfield's 4th season after the 1987 Texas game which Arkansas lost on a last second play. Texas was trying to line up and get a play off with no time outs remaining when Fred Goldsmith, Arkansas defensive coordinator, called a time out. That time out allowed Texas time to get collected and call the right play which resulted in the game winning score. It was an obvious blunder.

Broyles was furious after the game. He told Hatfield that Goldsmith was a joke and needed to be fired. He also told Hatfield he would pay whatever it took to get the best defensive coordinator money could buy. Hatfield refused so Broyles went to the school chancellor seeking permission to fire Hatfield. Dan Ferritor refused so both Hatfield and Goldsmith remained.

But Frank wasn't a man to give up. He convinced Rice's AD to hire Goldsmith as head coach. Over the next two years Arkansas went to back to back Cotton bowls. Broyles did Hatfield a huge favor by getting rid of Goldsmith but he was so offended by Frank's attempt to fire him that he left for Clemson and his career went downhill after that.

Frank deserved some of the criticism he got for meddling but in most cases he knew what the hell he was doing. Goldsmith was pitiful.

Mike as a writer and commentator comprehension should be something you are proficient at - whether the time was spot on as another poster stated differently, my point was that Broyles made Hatfield feel uncomfortable about exercising his religion.  Broyles would not have said that the two biggest regrets he had were how he dealt with Hatfield and Holtz if he thought he did everything right.  I doubt seriously that Broyles would get incensed about that one thing either.  And I recall, Hatfield left, he wasnt fired.

I am also sure it wasnt just a discomfort thing.  The issue you cite, I am sure probably contributed to it as well.  Marriages dont break up over a single event.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

Danimal

Hatfield was a year (2 at most) away from being fired, and he knew it. His last 2 recruiting classes were pretty lackluster.

redeye

Quote from: Mike Irwin on December 15, 2017, 08:07:51 pm
You've got the story completely screwed up. The "Jesus wept" comment had nothing to do with why Hatfield left.

Thanks for the info Mr. Irwin!

Is it true that Hatfield ran the Flexbone because Broyles wouldn't let him throw the ball?

Tejano Jawg

Quote from: snoblind on December 15, 2017, 03:48:51 pm
It wasn't just a NC politician, it was Jesse Helms.  Segregationist and racist, among other things.

What the vast majority of folks who weren't around back then don't realize is it only took Holtz one round of the rubber chicken/fish fry circuit to get on the wrong side of plenty of the money folks.  His shtick didn't play well.  As long as you are winning and kicking OU's butt in the Orange Bowl they don't say much.

Slack off in recruiting, lose a few more games, and embarass a state that already had a bad reputation in race relations - that gets folks burning up Frank's phone line.

Good post, and interesting thread for that matter...this post touches on the combination of 2 different things that led to his demise, and it took both—
1—The Helms public relations hit. Holtz was not a good recruiter anyway (which is why he succeeded at ND, because he didn't have to recruit), so then imagine what all the other SWC coaches would say to recruits. They'd talk about Arkansas' coach supporting a racist politician. Not sure what kind of damage control could fix that.
2—Going 6-5.

The season before Holtz was fired, the Hogs went 9-2-1 (should have been a solid 10-2 if not for the screw job vs SMU). Amazing to think how quickly things can go south. The Hogs had some stars graduate prior to the 6-5 season. Broyles might have given Holtz a pass if not for the Helms deal.

No doubt Holtz was always a showman—funny to think he spoke at our athletic banquet (in Bentonville) shortly after he arrived in Fayetteville—but off camera, like many celebs and media personalities, he can be an a-hole of the highest order.

But, back to the original point of all this, I sure enjoyed his 2 Tonight Show appearances.
Between McAfee being obnoxious and Corso decomposing before our eyes I can't even watch GameDay anymore. —Torqued Pork

Wild Bill Hog

Quote from: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on December 15, 2017, 05:06:14 pm
This... AND JFB was having growing pains as an AD while simultaneously learning to let go of the football team... Nobody's perfect, and I believe he said how he handled Lou and Ken were two of his biggest regrets.

Hatfield only.  Frank went to Houston and apologized in person to Ken.  He never expressed any regret concerning Holtz I don't think.

flippinhogmana

Quote from: Wild Bill Hog on December 15, 2017, 09:21:59 pm
Hatfield only.  Frank went to Houston and apologized in person to Ken.  He never expressed any regret concerning Holtz I don't think.
Frank, for whatever faults he had, loyalty and respect werent really among them.  As I recall, a punt return by Hatfield had a lot to do with his one championship, unless I have my dates wrong on that too!  These events did take place a long time ago.  But the point is, that he and Frank had a personal connection.  I think as a man Frank probably felt that he had let things drawf that.   If he truly did that (went and apologized to him), I respect him for it.
Like the erstwhile Clark Kent, my true identity is shielded.  I am an author, Nathan J. Allison is my pen name.

oldfart

had a friend who was a coach on holtz staff never said anything while holtz was here. later told a lot. holtz absolutely hated recruiting, they would have a large group of recruits coming in and he would be off for a motivational talk to saudi arabia or somewhere. also you noticed a significant number if kids who passed up their senir year " to concenrate on graduating" . you always have one or two but there was an inordinate number. my friend told me that holtz was always cracking jokes and the players would crack back... until one day they THOUGHT he was joking and they would wisecrack bak.....and be deep in the doghouse.   also the Helms commercials were shot in Holtz office with university symbols prominent. that is an absolute no-no.  i did a lot of grant and contract research and one prominent part if the contract was that the name or symbols if the university could not be used in any advertising of the results withiut specific permission from university legal