Porkatarian believes Mike Anderson would jump at the Arkansas job if offered.

[HawgAdvocate]

His 2007-08 campaign saw the inclusion of his nephew DeMarre Carroll, a transfer from Vanderbilt, but also was hit by scandal, as a group of players (the "Athena Five", so named for where the incident took place) were arrested for a fight in a Columbia nightclub. Weeks later, starting forward Kalen Grimes was dismissed from the team after being arrested for hitting a man with the butt of a shotgun. the Tigers finished 16-16, crashing out of the Big 12 Tourney to Nebraska and once again missing out on post-season play.

Looks like Mike had a pretty rough second season as well.  Just sayin, everyone goes through growing pains. 

What would we have done if 6 players had been arrested last year.  Goddness.

Doesn't matter. A bunch of these people have mentioned Scott Drew from Baylor. Yet they didn't even stop to look that it took him 4+ years to get a decent team together. Ignorance is bliss for them I suppose.

[HogInThaGrove]

Doesn't matter. A bunch of these people have mentioned Scott Drew from Baylor. Yet they didn't even stop to look that it took him 4+ years to get a decent team together. Ignorance is bliss for them I suppose.

I know, I know.

[The Boar War]

Looks like Mike had a pretty rough second season as well.  Just sayin, everyone goes through growing pains. 

I'm hoping Pelphrey can turn it around and grow from this experience.  For Mike they're growing pains.  As of right now for Pelphrey they're just pains.

[forrest city joe]

Doesn't matter. A bunch of these people have mentioned Scott Drew from Baylor. Yet they didn't even stop to look that it took him 4+ years to get a decent team together. Ignorance is bliss for them I suppose.

Id it was up to Pel lovers like you, we give him 10 more years of losing to Morgan state. last year you tolfd folks it would be better this year. now that this year is terrible, you are crying to give him even more years.i got a message for you. IM TIRED OR WATCHING THE HAWGS LOSE! can you understand that?

[WilsonHog]

Like I give a damn if I'm in the minority or the majority. My beliefs are my own. I don't require anyone's approval to know I enjoy Razorback basketball more than most of you.

The prior two times we've fired a coach (this decade!!!!), we've had to start over from the bottom up, with lessening interest from the coaching world each time thanks in large to the quick trigger our decision-makers appear to have. Heath's 20 win seasons weren't good enough. Nolan's declining success wasn't good enough. Pel's rebuilding project isn't going fast enough.

You love the idea of firing the coach, but you don't take two seconds to think of where we'll be after we fire the one guy (out of like 6 or 7 who we previously offered/courted??) that wanted the job in the first place just 3 years ago. You're setting the Arkansas job up to be a death trap for any coach who chooses to come here. We're going to be the Washington Redskins of college basketball if we keep up this level of impatience and instability. Take your homer glasses off and look at how pathetic our leadership will appear to be if Arkansas fires 3 coaches in one decade (not to mention the one who probably saved his career by running back home to Creighton just 24 hours after getting a good dose of Arkansas power players). Yes sir!! Winning coaches from allllllll over will line right up so they too can be the next one in line to get ran out of town.

And if you really do "get it,"  you'll take time to look before you leap.

Let's suppose we're wrong and Pel doesn't get fired...and that you're wrong and he doesn't get it done. Let's say he stays five years and is let go after year five. Are we in any better shape than if we had let him go after year three? Are we in any worse shape?

Suppose we give Mike Anderson five years and he doesn't get it done. What then? Maybe the next coach doesn't get it done either, and we become Auburn.

If that happens, the 6,000 fans you see in BWA this year will become the norm, because Arkansas fans don't love basketball enough to support that level of program.

[Razorpigg]

Id it was up to Pel lovers like you, we give him 10 more years of losing to Morgan state. last year you tolfd folks it would be better this year. now that this year is terrible, you are crying to give him even more years.i got a message for you. IM TIRED OR WATCHING THE HAWGS LOSE! can you understand that?

Joe calm down they have won 3 in a row.

[Porkem]

HawgAdvocate....do you still work in the Broyles Athletic Complex?  One of the posters in here, jman or Atkinhog...not sure...did a little investigating and said you did.  I know you hear some things.  Can you indulge us a little bit? 

Don't want to get you in trouble or anything...but you seem to be one of the more intelligent posters in here.  I know you're a big Pel fan but since you're intelligent....I have hope we can change your mind as this season wears on.

[claycohog]

HawgAdvocate....do you still work in the Broyles Athletic Complex?  One of the posters in here, jman or Atkinhog...not sure...did a little investigating and said you did.  I know you hear some things.  Can you indulge us a little bit? 

Don't want to get you in trouble or anything...but you seem to be one of the more intelligent posters in here.  I know you're a big Pel fan but since you're intelligent....I have hope we can change your mind as this season wears on.

It all makes since now.  He's from the Broyles regime.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Why don't you do some more digging and find that exact post and date where I proclaimed your boy Frank was getting his ass fired!  Did that one come true?

Pel is Frank's last significant hire and Adov can't stand the thought of Long getting rid of him.  The good ole boy network and the clowns that were hired under that pitiful regime are about to cease to exist.

[Porkem]

It all makes since now.  He's from the Broyles regime.

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Why don't you do some more digging and find that exact post and date where I proclaimed your boy Frank was getting his ass fired!  Did that one come true?

Pel is Frank's last significant hire and Adov can't stand the thought of Long gidding rid of him.  The good ole boy network and the clowns that were hired under that pitiful regime are about to cease to exist.

PawPaw Frank and John White have set the basketball program so far back we may never recover.

[HawgAdvocate]

Let's suppose we're wrong and Pel doesn't get fired...and that you're wrong and he doesn't get it done. Let's say he stays five years and is let go after year five. Are we in any better shape than if we had let him go after year three? Are we in any worse shape?

Suppose we give Mike Anderson five years and he doesn't get it done. What then? Maybe the next coach doesn't get it done either, and we become Auburn.

If that happens, the 6,000 fans you see in BWA this year will become the norm, because Arkansas fans don't love basketball enough to support that level of program.

There's a lot of 'what ifs' in there, with a lot of unknown variables that would come along the way.

Certainly, if we fired Pel and hired Anderson, we'd have an sudden increase of ticket sales simply because of who he is. Just how much of an increase that would be is debatable. But how long would that increase last??

If ticket sales are the motivating factor for replacing Pel, then it must be said that Mike Anderson isn't really selling out Missouri home games either. Through seven home games, Mike Anderson basketball only averages 7,480 fans per game at home, and that's JUST COMING OFF THE ELITE 8!!!!!!! Mizzou Arena holds 15k fans, in case you're wondering. He's barely filling half the arena, despite having one of the best seasons in Missouri basketball history last year.

Today's Rivals/Yahoo Power Poll ranks Missouri 10th out of the Big 12 teams. And Mike is the answer to all our problems??? Hiiiiiiighly unlikely. Notice Doc Sadler is 11th.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=AmwZ56q8JRGWpmM1ti8vYBrevbYF?slug=jn-confcall121709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Now, we can fire Pel simply to fire Pel. But does that automatically mean whoever the new coach is will suddenly sell thousands of new tickets? It's more likely that we'll lose more talent than we gain with a coaching change. That would mean an even more dismal showing next season with ticket sales, digging ourselves in deeper. And of course, that would mean we'd likely see Madden, Mickelson, and possibly Ross say "hasta luego" to the Razorbacks.

In my mind, it's less risky to give Pel more time to do it his way. Recruiting looks better than it has in years, with next year's class looking more promising than this one. South Alabama wasn't reloaded/rebuilt in two seasons. We gave Pel six months (mid-April to November's first signing date) to bring in two recruiting classes (Sanchez & crew, and Rotnei & crew). I think that's asking a lot of any coaching staff coming into a higher prestige job then where they were. Players like Powell, Nobles, Farmer, and Bryant are looking like good players all in all. Powell looks to be the only surefire stud with a lot of room to grow, but one can never undervalue good role players.

[AnthroHog]

I haven't asked my sources on when his next test will be. You're the guy who continues to claim to be in the know, despite having not one claim (that I'm aware of) come to fruition. Pick at me all you want bub, at least my nose is clean.

When you run your mouth as if you're all-knowing, as you have, you better be right about what you say. It's normally better to not count your chickens until they hatch.

Aren't Finals over for the semester?

[HawgAdvocate]

HawgAdvocate....do you still work in the Broyles Athletic Complex?  One of the posters in here, jman or Atkinhog...not sure...did a little investigating and said you did.  I know you hear some things.  Can you indulge us a little bit? 

Don't want to get you in trouble or anything...but you seem to be one of the more intelligent posters in here.  I know you're a big Pel fan but since you're intelligent....I have hope we can change your mind as this season wears on.

He didn't do any investigating. I admitted as much in a seperate recent thread when I said I was an employee there when Mike was last here. I recalled how the fans turned their backs on both Nolan and Mike with the smallball the Hogs were playing. I wasn't anyone of major importance, so don't get too excited with your childish celebrations. Frank didn't even know who I was, FYI (he called most by the wrong name anyway). I was just one of many paid interns working at the complex at that time. I saw a lot, heard a lot more, and learned the way things were in my multiple years there.

ClayCo - if that's the only way you can discuss Razorback basketball with me, then I feel for your intelligence. You shouldn't pat yourself on the back so much if you choose to assume so much while actually knowing so little about who you're talking with. I know you feel as if you need to one up me since I've made you look like such a fool, and that's fine. Try as you must. You're just lowering yourself post by post.

[HawgAdvocate]

Aren't Finals over for the semester?

I wasn't referring to that sort of test.

[AnthroHog]

I wasn't referring to that sort of test.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[WilsonHog]

I wasn't referring to that sort of test.

If that is the case, wouldn't that speak negatively to Fortson's level of commitment to Pel and the program?

[HawgAdvocate]

If that is the case, wouldn't that speak negatively to Fortson's level of commitment to Pel and the program?

It would if he failed yet another one. Of course, if it is an academic issue, tests are done but that doesn't mean all grades are posted. Some teachers tend to take their sweet, sweet time.

That being said, we can't get through to all of them. If Fort doesn't get the message, then college basketball under John Pelphrey isn't for him. Certain guys get lucky to have coaches who never make them have to worry about these things (C.J. McLain, etc), while we have a coach and AD who aren't as lenient.  Not saying drugs are ok, but weed has normally been looked over in years past here (by multiple coaches of various sports).

[claycohog]

He didn't do any investigating. I admitted as much in a seperate recent thread when I said I was an employee there when Mike was last here. I recalled how the fans turned their backs on both Nolan and Mike with the smallball the Hogs were playing. I wasn't anyone of major importance, so don't get too excited with your childish celebrations. Frank didn't even know who I was, FYI (he called most by the wrong name anyway). I was just one of many paid interns working at the complex at that time. I saw a lot, heard a lot more, and learned the way things were in my multiple years there.

ClayCo - if that's the only way you can discuss Razorback basketball with me, then I feel for your intelligence. You shouldn't pat yourself on the back so much if you choose to assume so much while actually knowing so little about who you're talking with. I know you feel as if you need to one up me since I've made you look like such a fool, and that's fine. Try as you must. You're just lowering yourself post by post.

I don't think so, friend.  Having pity for me isn't going to keep the obvious from happening.  Nothing you say or do is going to keep Pel his job or me from posting.  As far as knowing who I'm talking with, I don't feel threatened.  I HOPE every person in the Broyles Complex reads Hogville.  Sad thing about it is I'm sure most of them agree with what is being said by the anti-Pel crew.

  No one cares how well Mizzou's attendance is.  Hell, Mike may not even be our next coach.  Well, I'm through lowering myself for the time being.

[secfan30]

Nolan Richardson was here for 17 years, won 1 National Championship, went 2 years in a row, and the only reason was a McD's All-American from the state of Arkansas and a once in a lifetime shot from Scotty Thurman. 

We can't give Pel 3 years?

And by the way, I love Nolan, and he was most likely right about a lot of things, but just went about it the wrong way.

And I like Mike too, but getting rid of a coach who WANTED the job when nobody else did does not show loyalty to a coach and his desire to rebuild a program.  It makes us look like sissy little girls who are jealous of the big girls (Kentucky) when they get something new (Calipari), and we throw a temper tantrum. 

Flame Away. 

Anderson wanted the job when Richardson was fired......... Where is the loyalty???

[HogInThaGrove]

I don't think so, friend.  Having pity for me isn't going to keep the obvious from happening.  Nothing you say or do is going to keep Pel his job or me from posting.  As far as knowing who I'm talking with, I don't feel threatened.  I HOPE every person in the Broyles Complex reads Hogville.  Sad thing about it is I'm sure most of them agree with what is being said by the anti-Pel crew.

  No one cares how well Mizzou's attendance is.  Hell, Mike may not even be our next coach.  Well, I'm through lowering myself for the time being.

Good. Does that mean you're done trying to imitate your boy FCJ? Lame attempt by the way, your spelling and punctuation are too good.

[HogInThaGrove]

Anderson wanted the job when Richardson was fired......... Where is the loyalty???

Viable question, though we all know the answer. When Nolan told the whole state to shove it, he screwed Mike indirectly. Nobody would allow a former player and 17 year assistant to Nolan be the next coach here. It would have been the same at any other college.

[HawgAdvocate]

I don't think so, friend.  Having pity for me isn't going to keep the obvious from happening.  Nothing you say or do is going to keep Pel his job or me from posting.  As far as knowing who I'm talking with, I don't feel threatened.  I HOPE every person in the Broyles Complex reads Hogville.  Sad thing about it is I'm sure most of them agree with what is being said by the anti-Pel crew.

  No one cares how well Mizzou's attendance is.  Hell, Mike may not even be our next coach.  Well, I'm through lowering myself for the time being.

Considering Wilson and I were having a grown-up discussion on the impact that attendance has on our coach's future, I found it relevant to point out that even popular choice Mike Anderson wasn't dazzling his fans with half-filled arenas, even with a down year in football and an Elite Eight appearance in his back pocket.

Trust me, I'm fuly aware that you don't care to discuss rational circumstances that could lead ACTUALLY lead to a coaching change.

I'm not trying to stop you from posting. And no one is threatening you either. Just thought if you were going to try and get personal with who I am, you might as well not overshoot yourself with assumptions and silly statements like you did. You don't pay attention to what you're reading very well do you?

[claycohog]

Considering Wilson and I were having a grown-up discussion on the impact that attendance has on our coach's future, I found it relevant to point out that even popular choice Mike Anderson wasn't dazzling his fans with half-filled arenas, even with a down year in football and an Elite Eight appearance in his back pocket.

Trust me, I'm fuly aware that you don't care to discuss rational circumstances that could lead ACTUALLY lead to a coaching change.

I'm not trying to stop you from posting. And no one is threatening you either. Just thought if you were going to try and get personal with who I am, you might as well not overshoot yourself with assumptions and silly statements like you did. You don't pay attention to what you're reading very well do you?

The bottom line is that Pel can't coach.  If your blind loyalty to the program prevents you from seeing that then your beyond help.  In your defense, if it is true that your an employee of the UofA then I guess it is possible that you are receiving some monetary gain for supporting this crap and spewing the company line on a message board.  If that's not the case, wow.  You portray yourself as a very intelligient person, intelligience and the pro-Pel crowd don't go hand and hand.

[HawgAdvocate]

The bottom line is that Pel can't coach.  If your blind loyalty to the program prevents you from seeing that then your beyond help.  In your defense, if it is true that your an employee of the UofA then I guess it is possible that you are receiving some monetary gain for supporting this crap and spewing the company line on a message board.  If that's not the case, wow.  You portray yourself as a very intelligient person, intelligience and the pro-Pel crowd don't go hand and hand.

I was an employee years ago, but am not now. That allows me to be objective. If the BAC wants to pay me for my time here, I wouldn't turn them down. Honestly, the folks I know at the BAC laugh at Hogville. Why shouldn't they though? They don't really deal with hearsay or blind faith in rumors there.

Pel has coached for 15 years under/with Sutton, Pitino, Donovan, and numerous others...and he somehow miracualously fooled everyone along the way, by not being able to coach, to get himself the head coaching job at Arkansas?? He even turned around a mid-major at South Alabama without being able to coach? Interesting theory. Not possible on any planet, but interesteing nonetheless.

I'm asking relavant questions about how we plan to increase tickets for the next 3 to 5 years if we decide to start from scratch for the 3rd time in eight years. I see a lot of people who want to win NOW, but not very many care to acknowledge what the realistic future holds.

[Porkatarian]

He even turned around a mid-major at South Alabama without being able to coach?

Come on H.A., even you're reaching with that one.

Bob Weltlich coached South Alabama from 1997 to 2002 and compiled a record of 81-65.

John Pelphrey coached South Alabama from 2002–2007 and complied a record of 80-67.

I wouldn't say that he "turned around" the program at South Alabama.


Porkatarian out...

[Toad Suck Pork]

Pork, you are correct.  And, the only reason we ended up with Pel is because we had one of the most severely botched coaching searches I can recall anywhere.  Not because of his past results.

The bad part about a message board is that everyone seems to want the last word, yet very, very few are convinced that the other side is "correct" in the process.

[dsims2k3]

I feel sorry for Pel, but I have never in my life cared less about basketball at the university than I do now and I HATE that, but I just honestly don't care. I have no belief that we are in any way getting closer to being a relevant program again. I don't care if it's Pel or Mike or whoever coaching thus team, I just want to have reason to hope and believe in basketball again.

would you say the same if it was the football program that was in this shape?

[HawgAdvocate]

Pork, you are correct.  And, the only reason we ended up with Pel is because we had one of the most severely botched coaching searches I can recall anywhere.  Not because of his past results.

The bad part about a message board is that everyone seems to want the last word, yet very, very few are convinced that the other side is "correct" in the process.

How was it botched when we paid $90k for a search firm to do it in private for us? It's what a lot of teams are doing now. Broyles obviously did a disservice to Altman, but the firm was able to do the job that was intended.

[dsims2k3]

There's a lot of 'what ifs' in there, with a lot of unknown variables that would come along the way.

Certainly, if we fired Pel and hired Anderson, we'd have an sudden increase of ticket sales simply because of who he is. Just how much of an increase that would be is debatable. But how long would that increase last??

If ticket sales are the motivating factor for replacing Pel, then it must be said that Mike Anderson isn't really selling out Missouri home games either. Through seven home games, Mike Anderson basketball only averages 7,480 fans per game at home, and that's JUST COMING OFF THE ELITE 8!!!!!!! Mizzou Arena holds 15k fans, in case you're wondering. He's barely filling half the arena, despite having one of the best seasons in Missouri basketball history last year.

Today's Rivals/Yahoo Power Poll ranks Missouri 10th out of the Big 12 teams. And Mike is the answer to all our problems??? Hiiiiiiighly unlikely. Notice Doc Sadler is 11th.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news;_ylt=AmwZ56q8JRGWpmM1ti8vYBrevbYF?slug=jn-confcall121709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Now, we can fire Pel simply to fire Pel. But does that automatically mean whoever the new coach is will suddenly sell thousands of new tickets? It's more likely that we'll lose more talent than we gain with a coaching change. That would mean an even more dismal showing next season with ticket sales, digging ourselves in deeper. And of course, that would mean we'd likely see Madden, Mickelson, and possibly Ross say "hasta luego" to the Razorbacks.

In my mind, it's less risky to give Pel more time to do it his way. Recruiting looks better than it has in years, with next year's class looking more promising than this one. South Alabama wasn't reloaded/rebuilt in two seasons. We gave Pel six months (mid-April to November's first signing date) to bring in two recruiting classes (Sanchez & crew, and Rotnei & crew). I think that's asking a lot of any coaching staff coming into a higher prestige job then where they were. Players like Powell, Nobles, Farmer, and Bryant are looking like good players all in all. Powell looks to be the only surefire stud with a lot of room to grow, but one can never undervalue good role players.

Florida had won back to back National Championships and thier attendance still werent all that amazing. Does that make Billy Donovan a bad coach? No. It just depends on the fanbase and tradition as well.

[Toad Suck Pork]

How was it botched when we paid $90k for a search firm to do it in private for us? It's what a lot of teams are doing now. Broyles obviously did a disservice to Altman, but the firm was able to do the job that was intended.

Frank botched Gillespie by lowballing him, and Gillespie ended up at Kentucky.

White botched the Altman deal (whether intentional or not), after Frank had "hired" him.

The search firm was hired by White to find someone that fit the profile given of "up-and-coming uptempo coach" that fit the compensation criteria.  Their solution was John Pelphrey, which White agreed upon.

[claycohog]

I was an employee years ago, but am not now. That allows me to be objective. If the BAC wants to pay me for my time here, I wouldn't turn them down. Honestly, the folks I know at the BAC laugh at Hogville. Why shouldn't they though? They don't really deal with hearsay or blind faith in rumors there.

Pel has coached for 15 years under/with Sutton, Pitino, Donovan, and numerous others...and he somehow miracualously fooled everyone along the way, by not being able to coach, to get himself the head coaching job at Arkansas?? He even turned around a mid-major at South Alabama without being able to coach? Interesting theory. Not possible on any planet, but interesteing nonetheless.

I'm asking relavant questions about how we plan to increase tickets for the next 3 to 5 years if we decide to start from scratch for the 3rd time in eight years. I see a lot of people who want to win NOW, but not very many care to acknowledge what the realistic future holds.

Pel has fooled no one.  Pitino, Sutton, and Donovan hired him as an assistant.  That's it, an assistant.  Of course none of those 3 are going to say he's not worthy to coach at Arkansas publicly.  That would make each of those individuals look bad.  I guarantee that each of those gentleman know that he will never get it done here along with 90% of the fanbase.  Honestly, do you actually think he is good enough to get it turned around at the University of Arkansas?  I want an honest answer.

[HawgAdvocate]

Come on H.A., even you're reaching with that one.

Bob Weltlich coached South Alabama from 1997 to 2002 and compiled a record of 81-65.

John Pelphrey coached South Alabama from 2002–2007 and complied a record of 80-67.

I wouldn't say that he "turned around" the program at South Alabama.

If you want to make observations based on what you see on the surface, such as comparing overall records, then so be it. BUT, if you want to actually look at in detailed fashion, then allow me...

Why do you think Weltlich resigned? Going 7-21 will do that to ya. He had taken former NBA coach Bill Musselman's (RIP) Big Dance team in 1997-1998 and eventually took it downhill. Wetlich had three 20-win seasons in five years. Musselman had spent two seasons making it a winner again.

Wetlich (year 1, after Musselman's sudden resignation in October) - 21-7
Year 2 - 11-16
Year 3- 20-10
Year 4 - 22-11
Year 5 - 7-21

Wetlich then resigned and then Pel took over. It took him three seasons to provide some sort of stability there, and then he started winning for two straight years before coming to Arkansas. Wetlich didn't exactly go out a winner, nor did he manage to keep his rosters intact.

It appears Wetlich suffered more roster turnover than anything I've ever seen before.

In 1998-99 - he had 7 frosh and 5 sophs, & 1 junior
In 99-2000 - he had 9 frosh, 2 sophs, a junior, & 1 senior
in 2000-01 - he had 4 frosh, 6 sophs, & 1 junior
in 2001-02 - he had 8 frosh, 3 sophs, & 1 junior
(rosters taken from statsheet.com)

When Pel took over,
in 02-03 he had 6 frosh, 5 sophs, 1 junior and 1 senior
in 03-04 he had 5 frosh, 5 sophs, 1 junior, and 1 senior
in 04-05 he had 5 frosh, 4 sophs, & 2 juniors
in 05-06 he had 3 frosh, 3 sophs, 2 juniors, & 3 seniors (players sticking around finally)
in 06-07 he had 4 frosh, 3 sophs, 4 juniors, & 2 seniors
(statsheet.com)

Looks like South Alabama was the model for chaos before Pel arrived. But Pel actually got some upperclassmen to stick around. Notice Pel actually got kids to stick around to their senior year, and had more than one junior.

[HawgAdvocate]

Florida had won back to back National Championships and thier attendance still werent all that amazing. Does that make Billy Donovan a bad coach? No. It just depends on the fanbase and tradition as well.

You'll have to exscuse me if I don't take your word for it.

[HawgAdvocate]

Frank botched Gillespie by lowballing him, and Gillespie ended up at Kentucky.

White botched the Altman deal (whether intentional or not), after Frank had "hired" him.

The search firm was hired by White to find someone that fit the profile given of "up-and-coming uptempo coach" that fit the compensation criteria.  Their solution was John Pelphrey, which White agreed upon.

And Pel was the only option that fit an uptempo, up-and-coming coach, in the entire country? No. He was just the only one that wanted to make the move.

In retrospect, we did good by not overpaying BCG. His preferred style of play is more boring that Heath's. We made numerous offers, and we only went to the search firm after getting turned down (publicly) so many times.

[claycohog]

If you want to make observations based on what you see on the surface, such as comparing overall records, then so be it. BUT, if you want to actually look at in detailed fashion, then allow me...

Why do you think Weltlich resigned? Going 7-21 will do that to ya. He had taken former NBA coach Bill Musselman's (RIP) Big Dance team in 1997-1998 and eventually took it downhill. Wetlich had three 20-win seasons in five years. Musselman had spent two seasons making it a winner again.

Wetlich (year 1, after Musselman's sudden resignation in October) - 21-7
Year 2 - 11-16
Year 3- 20-10
Year 4 - 22-11
Year 5 - 7-21

Wetlich then resigned and then Pel took over. It took him three seasons to provide some sort of stability there, and then he started winning for two straight years before coming to Arkansas. Wetlich didn't exactly go out a winner, nor did he manage to keep his rosters intact.

It appears Wetlich suffered more roster turnover than anything I've ever seen before.

In 1998-99 - he had 7 frosh and 5 sophs, & 1 junior
In 99-2000 - he had 9 frosh, 2 sophs, a junior, & 1 senior
in 2000-01 - he had 4 frosh, 6 sophs, & 1 junior
in 2001-02 - he had 8 frosh, 3 sophs, & 1 junior
(rosters taken from statsheet.com)

When Pel took over,
in 02-03 he had 6 frosh, 5 sophs, 1 junior and 1 senior
in 03-04 he had 5 frosh, 5 sophs, 1 junior, and 1 senior
in 04-05 he had 5 frosh, 4 sophs, & 2 juniors
in 05-06 he had 3 frosh, 3 sophs, 2 juniors, & 3 seniors (players sticking around finally)
in 06-07 he had 4 frosh, 3 sophs, 4 juniors, & 2 seniors
(statsheet.com)

Looks like South Alabama was the model for chaos before Pel arrived. But Pel actually got some upperclassmen to stick around. Notice Pel actually got kids to stick around to their senior year, and had more than one junior.

Where else were those upperclassman going to go?  To another mid-major after sitting out a year.

[HawgAdvocate]

Pel has fooled no one.  Pel, Sutton, and Donovan hired him as an assistant.  That's it, an assistant.  Of course none of those 3 are going to say he's not worthy to coach at Arkansas publicly.  That would make each of those individuals look bad.  I guarantee that each of those gentleman know that he will never get it done here along with 90% of the fanbase.  Honestly, do you actually think he is good enough to get it turned around at the University of Arkansas?  I want an honest answer.

So why would Pitino call Pelphrey one of the 3 smartest players he's ever had? He didn't have to say anything close to that. That's Pitino's own rep he's putting on the line by saying that.

Why would these coaches waste years of their time (and reputaions) with having an assistant that couldn't coach? What do assistants do, in your mind, ClayCo?? Hint: they do more than wash jocks.

And do you think that the South Alabama and Arkansas brass took public statements from any and all references that Pel provided? Of course not. These things are done behind closed doors. You don't think Pel had sit down and earn his head coaching jobs by selling himself to the ones doing the hiring? Who awards big contracts like that without making sure you have the right guy? You're saying the firm we hired didn't know who they were interviewing when they reccomended him?

You're making some very laughable accusations. And yes, I do think he's good enough to get it turned round here. He hasn't exactly had been given every opportunity in the world to win has he? From what I've seen, he's had to overcome numerous obstacles that almost any coach wouldn't survive. Click below, to see what I'm talking about, as I'm not going to type it all out again. 

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=325681.msg4737934#msg4737934

[HawgAdvocate]

Where else were those upperclassman going to go?  To another mid-major after sitting out a year.

And you've chosen to ignore the facts completely....or , if you are trying to make a point, I'd suggest giving a more thorough effort.

[HogInThaGrove]

Where else were those upperclassman going to go?  To another mid-major after sitting out a year.

There will always be a anti-pel comeback HawgAdvocate.  Might as well stop wasting your breath (fingers). 

[claycohog]

So why would Pitino call Pelphrey one of the 3 smartest players he's ever had? He didn't have to say anything close to that. That's Pitino's own rep he's putting on the line by saying that.

Why would these coaches waste years of their time (and reputaions) with having an assistant that couldn't coach? What do assistants do, in your mind, ClayCo?? Hint: they do more than wash jocks.

And do you think that the South Alabama and Arkansas brass took public statements from any and all references that Pel provided? Of course not. These things are done behind closed doors. You don't think Pel had sit down and earn his head coaching jobs by selling himself to the ones doing the hiring? Who awards big contracts like that without making sure you have the right guy? You're saying the firm we hired didn't know who they were interviewing when they reccomended him?

You're making some very laughable accusations. And yes, I do think he's good enough to get it turned round here. He hasn't exactly had been given every opportunity in the world to win has he? From what I've seen, he's had to overcome numerous obstacles that almost any coach wouldn't survive. Click below, to see what I'm talking about, as I'm not going to type it all out again. 

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=325681.msg4737934#msg4737934

If you HONESTLY think he can get it turned around then I can and will respect that.  For a while I thought you were a puppet but I don't think that anymore.  Obviously, I don't think he can get it turned around.  It's going to be a long 3 months on here for you, but you have proven you are up to the task.

  When a change is made I know you will support whomever is chosen to be the next coach. 

[Tusks]

You know HA reminds me of everything that was wrong with the athletic department for 20 years.....don't rock the boat....don't set expectations to high....kind of like a government job....dont work too hard or too fast or more will be expected.

you know why programs stay on top or bounce back quickly from a set back....expectations...if the UA was serious about basketball they would set high expectations and provide the paycheck to go along with those expectations.

if you want a full arena then win....you want to sell tickets...then win....you want to win....open the fricken checkbook and refuse to take no for an answer.  if it takes $2M to get a final 4 coach on the hill then pay the man $2M with the expectation to win and go to a final 4.

if you have a football coach that has taken the football team to the BCS and the pay is getting to close to him ....give him a raise.

all the programs NC, KT etc know one thing....how to demand excellence and that paying the coaches is what it takes to get that excellence.

if i can sell out a 20K arena....be ranked in the top 5 and make $2M a year to do that.....then sign me up.....there ARE coaches that feel that way.

but when you had the idiot and idiot show on the hill it shows a lack of organization and a lack of commitment.  it made the department look like a bunch of rich hillbillies.

now the ball is in jeff longs court to show that the foundation and athletic organization is there for a well paid coach to take the leap.

I swear the UA sometimes just can't get out of its own way.

[Temprees]

And Pel was the only option that fit an uptempo, up-and-coming coach, in the entire country? No. He was just the only one that wanted to make the move.

In retrospect, we did good by not overpaying BCG. His preferred style of play is more boring that Heath's. We made numerous offers, and we only went to the search firm after getting turned down (publicly) so many times.

Its just not true that Pel was the only one interested.  Anthony Grant was interested, but White/Broyles were not interested in him.

[HawgAdvocate]

Its just not true that Pel was the only one interested.  Anthony Grant was interested, but White/Broyles were not interested in him.

Why?

[HawgAdvocate]

You know HA reminds me of everything that was wrong with the athletic department for 20 years.....don't rock the boat....don't set expectations to high....kind of like a government job....dont work too hard or too fast or more will be expected.

you know why programs stay on top or bounce back quickly from a set back....expectations...if the UA was serious about basketball they would set high expectations and provide the paycheck to go along with those expectations.

if you want a full arena then win....you want to sell tickets...then win....you want to win....open the fricken checkbook and refuse to take no for an answer.  if it takes $2M to get a final 4 coach on the hill then pay the man $2M with the expectation to win and go to a final 4.

if you have a football coach that has taken the football team to the BCS and the pay is getting to close to him ....give him a raise.

all the programs NC, KT etc know one thing....how to demand excellence and that paying the coaches is what it takes to get that excellence.

if i can sell out a 20K arena....be ranked in the top 5 and make $2M a year to do that.....then sign me up.....there ARE coaches that feel that way.

but when you had the idiot and idiot show on the hill it shows a lack of organization and a lack of commitment.  it made the department look like a bunch of rich hillbillies.

now the ball is in jeff longs court to show that the foundation and athletic organization is there for a well paid coach to take the leap.

I swear the UA sometimes just can't get out of its own way.

Yes, write the imaginary blank check and all will be saved. We'll win tomorrow and from here on until eternity.

Thank you imaginary blank check. Thank you very much.

[HawgAdvocate]

If you HONESTLY think he can get it turned around then I can and will respect that.  For a while I thought you were a puppet but I don't think that anymore.  Obviously, I don't think he can get it turned around.  It's going to be a long 3 months on here for you, but you have proven you are up to the task.

  When a change is made I know you will support whomever is chosen to be the next coach. 

I HONESTLY thought that coming into this year that we would be a better team due to depth and the ability to play more aggressive defense.

Well, depth has been an issue thus far this year. Suspentions and injuries have really played a role. I also didn't anticipate Fortson to be M.I.A. for this long either.

That being the case, I certainly didn't expect us to be considerably better than last year, right of the bat, due to all the new faces we have on the team.

Whoever the coach is next year will have to continue building this team back to an acceptable level. It could take another two years, or it could take another ten. We don't know. But I do know that Pel already has a head start on the rebuild, has good players coming, more on the horizon, and to me that looks like the quickest and most realistic route back to being great again, all things considered.

[Hogjammin]

Nolan Richardson was here for 17 years, won 1 National Championship, went 2 years in a row, and the only reason was a McD's All-American from the state of Arkansas and a once in a lifetime shot from Scotty Thurman. 

We can't give Pel 3 years?

And by the way, I love Nolan, and he was most likely right about a lot of things, but just went about it the wrong way.

And I like Mike too, but getting rid of a coach who WANTED the job when nobody else did does not show loyalty to a coach and his desire to rebuild a program.  It makes us look like sissy little girls who are jealous of the big girls (Kentucky) when they get something new (Calipari), and we throw a temper tantrum. 

Flame Away.

 

[Newhopehog]

I suspect that big blank check is not all going to coaches at some of those magic turnarounds...If you really want instant results in college bb then you had better be ready to cheat big time....

[M L (bassplayer)]

Why do people want to constantly talk about Mike Anderson?
Pull out Springsteen and listen to "Glory Days" or maybe even the Eagles and "Get Over It".

[Porkatarian]

Why?

B/C they were already burned by a "one hit wonder" in Stan, so they decided not to take the same risk with Anthony Grant.


Porkatarian out...

[HawgAdvocate]

B/C they were already burned by a "one hit wonder" in Stan, so they decided not to take the same risk with Anthony Grant.


Porkatarian out...

But they did with Pelphrey anyway?

Grant actually had more head coaching experience, as he was even a badass champion high school coach. He was like 170-10 in Florida High School.

Granted (no pun inteded), his D1 record had a Jeff Capel stamp all over it. At least Pel did endure hardship at USA, as a head coach, and showed he could get past it. His track record as an assistant was more decorated as well. That reasoning would make sense.

[Porkatarian]

But they did with Pelphrey anyway?

Grant actually had more head coaching experience, as he was even a badass champion high school coach. He was like 170-10 in Florida High School.

Granted (no pun inteded), his D1 record had a Jeff Capel stamp all over it. At least Pel did endure hardship at USA, as a head coach, and showed he could get past it. His track record as an assistant was more decorated as well. That reasoning would make sense.

You just answered your own question.


Porkatarian out...

[HawgAdvocate]

You just answered your own question.


Porkatarian out...

Yeah, I do that sometimes...just have to talk it out with myself.