Texas faculty whining over Brown's raise...

[Chappeee]

Yet they're just fine with the enormous sums of money he brings IN to the university, right?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4744679

[NWASooner]

Then you have Florida which is giving Meyer more money while laying off university staff.

At least Texas isn't facing layoffs.

[smoked hog]

They can suck it. On a high school level I could see them mad about a coaching salary. But when a college like texas receives as much money from athletics then they can just get over it.

[EnemyOfMojo]

Is the chemistry dept. in the national title game? I don't think so! Can the bastards!

[311Hog]

yeah why not just close the schools and just have these teams form a professional league right?

I mean who gives a flying crap about education or teaching, lets throw the pigskin around because we all know that is the single most important thing in the world....

Im sorry but if your school is laying off professors and staff due to the economy maybe throwing what cash you do have at the already flush football program isn't exactly the thing to do.

[smoked hog]

    Look I'm a high school teacher who has been a department chair for several years so I know what its like to need new equipment and see that money go to a sports program. But in this case were talking about a program that is paying the coach out of the money that he helped raise.
    Even if they didn't give him a raise it is not like they were going to use that money for test tubes. It would be different if this was being paid out of a general fund but its out of revenues raised by the athletic department. They made the money let them spend it however the hell they want.

[2FNFST4U]

    Look I'm a high school teacher who has been a department chair for several years so I know what its like to need new equipment and see that money go to a sports program. But in this case were talking about a program that is paying the coach out of the money that he helped raise.
    Even if they didn't give him a raise it is not like they were going to use that money for test tubes. It would be different if this was being paid out of a general fund but its out of revenues raised by the athletic department. They made the money let them spend it however the hell they want.

^^^^^ In many instances athletics is putting money back into the general fund. If not directly than indirectly.

Which ever team Bama or Texas wins the NC is going to see a huge increase in donations in the weeks after the game.

i know of one school that took in 15 million more following a NC victory in one month than over the previous year. Some of this money is donated to athletics and some donors make it to the general fund or for a certain expansion, renovation, etc.

[havok]

One thing these "Enlightened"... "never worked in the real world" Professors at univeristies are forgetting....

College Coaches CAN AND ARE FIRED.  Once a Professor reached Tenure, they are set for life without much worry of being fired. 

Hell, one of them could Profess the people on 9/11 deserved to die, cheer for more attacks, Lie about their heritage to get a minority chair position, proven to have Plagerized much of their work...and it still take an Act of God to remove them..  (See Ward Churchill)

So I won't be sheading too many tears for University Faculty members.

[311Hog]

One thing these "Enlightened"... "never worked in the real world" Professors at univeristies are forgetting....

College Coaches CAN AND ARE FIRED.  Once a Professor reached Tenure, they are set for life without much worry of being fired. 

Hell, one of them could Profess the people on 9/11 deserved to die, cheer for more attacks, Lie about their heritage to get a minority chair position, proven to have Plagerized much of their work...and it still take an Act of God to remove them..  (See Ward Churchill)

So I won't be sheading too many tears for University Faculty members.

Something you dont understand about the system is that to find a teflon professor is like finding the holy grail. What about all those other professors that do not have tenure and teach all the classes ? or the TA's and GA's that get canned because the dept. simply cant cover the budget once the state cuts their funding.

How does a college a state college survive when all they have left are tenure faculty as you put it that do nothing? because while money from football is large it is nothing compared to the money brought in from tuition.

And when you hear about schools like Florida and other SEC schools laying ppl off and putting people on furloughs and these are the same schools winning NC after NC that is a big red blinking light for your arse that something is wrong.  Football gets the best of everything at the major college level and it is pretty ridiculous.

I realize they "earned it" but fact of the matter is with out the school attached the football team could not stand on it's own, they are trying to be a professional team in an amateurs clothing and to me i see it becoming a huge issue that could see wild restructuring in the near future.

[hawgsav1]

One thing these "Enlightened"... "never worked in the real world" Professors at univeristies are forgetting....

College Coaches CAN AND ARE FIRED.  Once a Professor reached Tenure, they are set for life without much worry of being fired. 

Hell, one of them could Profess the people on 9/11 deserved to die, cheer for more attacks, Lie about their heritage to get a minority chair position, proven to have Plagerized much of their work...and it still take an Act of God to remove them..  (See Ward Churchill)

So I won't be sheading too many tears for University Faculty members.

I can guarantee you most professors have put more time and effort into earning their tenure than most people work in a lifetime.  Getting a PhD is more than just BSing your way into your degree, and especially for people who have to TA/GA/teach courses, do research, AND take graduate courses, it's not a walk in the par.  Then after they do get their PhD, in which they've had to make a brand new contribution to the field, they have to do a post-doc, sometimes even 2 or 3 (astronomy and physics profs often have to do 3 or more), before they even get hired as an assistant professor, which means they don't have tenure.  Then they have to teach, do research, mentor students for 4-5 years.  Depending on the quantity and quality of research publication, teaching reviews, and number of PhD students graduated after several years, only THEN will they even be considered for tenure, often around the age of 35-36.

And you bring up Ward Churchill, who admittedly is batsh!t crazy, and try to act as if all professors are the same way.  Also, don't forget that Churchill was canned as soon as it was found out that he plagiarized his research.

[DeltaBoy]

They are cheap whiners

[SteveInArk]

I can guarantee you most professors have put more time and effort into earning their tenure than most people work in a lifetime.  Getting a PhD is more than just BSing your way into your degree, and especially for people who have to TA/GA/teach courses, do research, AND take graduate courses, it's not a walk in the par.  Then after they do get their PhD, in which they've had to make a brand new contribution to the field, they have to do a post-doc, sometimes even 2 or 3 (astronomy and physics profs often have to do 3 or more), before they even get hired as an assistant professor, which means they don't have tenure.  Then they have to teach, do research, mentor students for 4-5 years.  Depending on the quantity and quality of research publication, teaching reviews, and number of PhD students graduated after several years, only THEN will they even be considered for tenure, often around the age of 35-36.

And you bring up Ward Churchill, who admittedly is batsh!t crazy, and try to act as if all professors are the same way.  Also, don't forget that Churchill was canned as soon as it was found out that he plagiarized his research.

Your assessment of what tenured Profs have to do over the lifetime of their career is commendable...

However, you can't be serious when you stated, "I can guarantee you most professors have put more time and effort into earning their tenure than most people work in a lifetime.  ..." 

[hawgsav1]

Your assessment of what tenured Profs have to do over the lifetime of their career is commendable...

However, you can't be serious when you stated, "I can guarantee you most professors have put more time and effort into earning their tenure than most people work in a lifetime.  ..." 

Fair enough.  I just find it interesting when I meet folks who do nothing but leech off of their parents money (I'm not insinuating the poster I was responding to was of that ilk) who criticize professors for their "laziness".  To be fair, there certainly are some professors who just take it easy after they get tenure, but honestly, you have to have a sincere love of your work and determination to succeed just to reach tenure, and there's no reason that it will subside as soon as you're awarded tenure.  Professors aren't paid nearly as much many folks in private industry, so there must be another incentive to go through all of that.

[DeltaBoy]

Mack is bring UT almost 8 times what he is getting paid  are any of these fine Dr's doing anything close if not shut your pie hole Doc and get to work.

[311Hog]

Mack is bring UT almost 8 times what he is getting paid  are any of these fine Dr's doing anything close if not shut your pie hole Doc and get to work.

I would argue it has less to do with Mack Brown and more to do with the players and caliber of talent in the lonestar state that want to go to the flagship University of arguably the most talent rich state in the 50.

As it has been said before a monkey with a whistle could coach Texas to a 10 win season.

And how much a football team brings in, is not the point of this thread.

[Sivad]

They don't light that tower up orange when somebody makes an A on a chemistry test.

[Razorturf]

Mack is bring UT almost 8 times what he is getting paid  are any of these fine Dr's doing anything close if not shut your pie hole Doc and get to work.

Last year, technology licensing (i.e. patents) generated almost $12 million for UT-Austin, so some of these Drs. seem to be doing something in those laboratories. The UT football program would still generate millions even if HDN was their coach next year. Would you say he is worth 2 or 3 or 5 million per year because he brings in millions to UT? I doubt it...

[Big Papa Satan]

They don't light that tower up orange when somebody makes an A on a chemistry test.

90,000 people will never show up to watch that chemistry test either.

My problem with most professors in this country is that they've turned their classrooms into indoctrination mills.

[LR-HOG]

Couldn't agree more Uncle Ivan....Too many classrooms (lecture halls) have become the professors captive audience for these liberals to preach their gospel to impressionable young adults.

[Razorturf]

90,000 people will never show up to watch that chemistry test either.

My problem with most professors in this country is that they've turned their classrooms into indoctrination mills.

Couldn't agree more Uncle Ivan....Too many classrooms (lecture halls) have become the professors captive audience for these liberals to preach their gospel to impressionable young adults.

Funny thing about these comments is that about 47000 students show up every day at the UT campus for that chemistry class and sociology and economics, etc.. They pay about $20000 per year in tuition to attend college at UT-Austin. That generates close to 1 billion dollars per year for the University of Texas just in tuition. That education or indoctrination will mean more to them over their lifetime than singing "the eyes of Texas" for 4 years at the football stadium.

Has your college education allowed you to make more money than someone with only a high school education? If not, you should have paid more attention to your professors...

[Big Papa Satan]

Funny thing about these comments is that about 47000 students show up every day at the UT campus for that chemistry class and sociology and economics, etc.. They pay about $20000 per year in tuition to attend college at UT-Austin. That generates close to 1 billion dollars per year for the University of Texas just in tuition. That education or indoctrination will mean more to them over their lifetime than singing "the eyes of Texas" for 4 years at the football stadium.

Has your college education allowed you to make more money than someone with only a high school education? If not, you should have paid more attention to your professors...

I see you've segued from having sand in your vagoo about the artificial turf to whining professors quite nicely.

[DeltaBoy]

These whinners need to get a Grip they can not make for the University 5-10 times as much money as they are payed like Mack Brown.

[Big Papa Satan]

I'm wondering how many alumni and non-students come to watch a turf management test.

[snortman]

Totally debatable, Warren Buffett once said, "I learned more from family and experiences than I could ever learn at a University".

Does a college education help your starting base pay, of course, does it have any bearing on your ending retirement pay, Absolutely not.

I've learned more from my business experiences (NYC and Los Angeles) and family than I ever learned on the hill.

No s**t sherlock, I would hope so. A college education is just a springboard to a better job and hopefully a better life. If you think that you don't have to learn anymore after college, then you missed the entire point of college.

[Razorturf]

Totally debatable, Warren Buffett once said, "I learned more from family and experiences than I could ever learn at a University".

Does a college education help your starting base pay, of course, does it have any bearing on your ending retirement pay, Absolutely not.

I've learned more from my business experiences (NYC and Los Angeles) and family than I ever learned on the hill.

I have also learned more from my experience than I did in college as well, but to minimize the importance of a college education because Warren Buffet made billions is pretty ridiculous. There have been numerous studies that have documented that a college grad will, on average, make about 1.5-2.0 million dollars more over their lifetime than a high school grad. That is comparing all college grads with all high school grads, not picking one success story or failure out of the lineup.

Ivan, you can attack me all you want - it only shows you have no other arguments. The facts at Arkansas are that 20000 students show up every day and pay about $9000 per year in tuition compared to 70000 that show up on 5 Saturdays in the fall...

[hogfan1111x]

Given what parents pay for tuition , I can't fathom how schools aren't able to pay their faculty. Universities are cash machines.

[Big Papa Satan]

Ivan, you can attack me all you want - it only shows you have no other arguments. The facts at Arkansas are that 20000 students show up every day and pay about $9000 per year in tuition compared to 70000 that show up on 5 Saturdays in the fall...

Spackler, they have tuition because they have to pay it if they want an education.

They don't have to go to a football game, Carl.

[GoodLuckGus]

Spackler, they have tuition because they have to pay it if they want an education.

They don't have to go to a football game, Carl.

They have ticket prices because they have to pay it if they want to watch the game.

They don't have to go to school.

[ADAM_713]

Wa Wa Wa....

[Razorturf]

As with most threads on Hogville, this one has also gone from discussing the issue of coaches salaries to petty attacks. The core issue is one of perception. If universities all over the country are having to lay off faculty and staff, furlough people, reduce scholarships to students, etc., because of the tight economy, then it is an issue of priority and perception when the football coach is given a 2 mil / year raise. It is no different than the banking fiasco last year when the big banks received a federal bailout because of some questionable loan tactics and then turned around and tried to use the bailout money to give execs some hefty bonuses. Were those execs responsible for generating profit or reducing losses for their share-holders? Most likely they were - however,the perception is that it was a bad time to reward anybody in the company.

Was Mack Brown having a hard time making it on the measly 3 million per year that he was being paid ? Again, I am not against Mack Brown or Bobby Petrino or anyone else making more money, it just seemed that the timing was not great.

[ark525]

However, you can't be serious when you stated, "I can guarantee you most professors have put more time and effort into earning their tenure than most people work in a lifetime.  ..." 

I could.  The bulk of my fellow grad students in the UA Biology program spend 80-100 hours a week working on our projects, often on 8 am-midnight hours on weekdays AND weekends.  Most of the professors work similar, if not longer, hours because of all of the student advising and department/university services they have to do in addition to their teaching and research.

[SteveInArk]

I could.  The bulk of my fellow grad students in the UA Biology program spend 80-100 hours a week working on our projects, often on 8 am-midnight hours on weekdays AND weekends.  Most of the professors work similar, if not longer, hours because of all of the student advising and department/university services they have to do in addition to their teaching and research.

I disagreed with the implication that "profs put in more time ... than most people work in a lifetime."  That is preposterous.  And the original poster acknowledged that.

The point being, many other professions, jobs, career fields, do likewise in their lifetime.  When you leave the academic world you will better understand that.  And one's tenure as a "grad student" will not elicit much sympathy.  Academic professional years, yes.  Post-grad student/GA years, not so much.

[hawgsav1]

I disagreed with the implication that "profs put in more time ... than most people work in a lifetime."  That is preposterous.  And the original poster acknowledged that.

The point being, many other professions, jobs, career fields, do likewise in their lifetime.  When you leave the academic world you will better understand that.  And one's tenure as a "grad student" will not elicit much sympathy.  Academic professional years, yes.  Post-grad student/GA years, not so much.

I will say this.  People who are in my field (Aerospace Engineering) who are "out in the real world" working insist that I do more work than they do, even though I am a lowly graduate student.  The fact is, graduate students pay their dues with the long hours and meager compensation.  I often have many friends who are in the working world call me and ask me to explain ideas/concepts/help them with a problem to them.


I think a lot of the idea that academia is some kind of Cloud 9 party is just something that has been ingrained in the heads of others.  Upper level academia (e.g. professors/graduate student work) is something that most people don't get to see firsthand, so people often make assumptions simply by what they can see on the surface.  They see the "casual" atmosphere that professors and graduate students work in (e.g. wearing shorts and sandals to work, making your own hours, working from home), and they compare it to the professional looking atmospheres that they work in (e.g. working 9-5, wearing suits, etc.).  From that they make the assumption that graduate students don't work hard or that professors are lazy bums.  TV shows and whatnot don't help either.  If anyone watches the show "Californication", Hank Moody's indiscretions while a member of UCLA's faculty don't cast a good light on academia. 

My Masters thesis (I'm working on my PhD now) was a simulation of how a nanosatellite could use magnetic torquer coils as an attitude control system, which basically means that I want to see how a small box satellite can use electricity and the earth's magnetic field to turn itself to point the direction I want it to point.  I spent a TON of time on it, and my work may eventually help the proposed satellite to get off the ground.  I once asked my friend, who's an engineer for Northrop Grumman, what he does on an every day basis.  This is how the conversation went:

Me: So what do you guys do on an every day basis?  Design controllers?
Him: No, not really.
Me: System ID?
Him: No.
Me: Simulation?  Analysis of Controllers?
Him: Well, we sometimes get to analyze controllers.
Me: Well, what do you guys do all day?
Him: We write reports...

Now, I'm obviously not trying to insinuate that he doesn't do any work, because he does put a lot of time and effort into his jobs but it's one of my pet peeves when someone comes around and says that graduate students don't do any work or that professors just screw around.  There is a reason that most research funding goes to either government research labs or universities.  It's because most of the research is done there. 

[jcentennial]

Goodness.  So many uninformed people. 

Little do they know nerds run the world. 

The people with ideas and top 1-5% intelligence.