Title IX thoughts

[the donger]

Justify it. Just like to hear the arguments.

[VoR]

Someone has to make sure there is sufficient government agency grow.

[Pig Pumper]

Girls have the right to compete in organized sporting events for the schools just the same as any guy does.

I just don't want to see it done at the expense of guys' sports.

[Pig Pumper]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

If that's the case then there would only be two sports at a lot of schools.

[Pig Pumper]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

[WichitaStateRazorback]

Schools such as the one I attend (Wichita State) can not afford to have a football team because of the cost.  They could handle the start up cost for football but not for 3 new women's sports that would equal the number of scholarships allotted for football, as well as lose the university money every year...I think Title IX is a joke.

[WichitaStateRazorback]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

[WichitaStateRazorback]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

Lol...I probably had twice that in 8th grade and I'm white.

I could jump 26 in HS but then again I weighed 270 lbs

[WichitaStateRazorback]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

Lol...I probably had twice that in 8th grade and I'm white.

I could jump 26 in HS but then again I weighed 270 lbs

That's impressive.  I don't know what mine is anymore but it's not great.  I'm just a hair over 6 foot with shoes on and I can get the rim on a 10 foot goal.  That's all.  Typical white guy I'm sure.

mines gotta be horrible now..after HS i dropped down to 210lbs and boxed for 3 years until i was in a car accident (04)..just had back surgery a month ago to correct the problem from the accident..so I'm sure my VJ is around 2 maybe 3 inches tops..anymore than that and id hurt myself..lol

[VoR]

When women support women's sports equally to men supporting men's sports, then Title IX will be a thing of the past, but until the time women start voting with their pocketbooks it won't happen, and I'm not sure it deserves to happen.

[WichitaStateRazorback]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

Lol...I probably had twice that in 8th grade and I'm white.

I could jump 26 in HS but then again I weighed 270 lbs

That's impressive.  I don't know what mine is anymore but it's not great.  I'm just a hair over 6 foot with shoes on and I can get the rim on a 10 foot goal.  That's all.  Typical white guy I'm sure.

mines gotta be horrible now..after HS i dropped down to 210lbs and boxed for 3 years until i was in a car accident (04)..just had back surgery a month ago to correct the problem from the accident..so I'm sure my VJ is around 2 maybe 3 inches tops..anymore than that and id hurt myself..lol

I'd recommend you not try that.  You sound way too young for back surgery.  I'd pick walking and living with the 2" vertical.

Man, I'd figured we'd get some real PC folks hopping all over this Title IX stuff.

Yea I wont try it for awhile.  It's another 8 weeks until I can even run.  I see the Doc in 2 weeks and he will let me know then if my back healed correctly and if he will sign off on my passport(boxing log) and give me the OK to box again....TITLE IX frustrates me ..id be nice to go to college at a school with a football team but at least I can say were undefeated since 1986.

[Oklahawg]

Title IX has expanded and gone through several generations of evolution and interpretation. It is a different critter today, at least for HS discussions.

Today, Title IX means that all competitive activities are to be on a level playing field. Equal access, equitable equipment (with proper skewing for the activity at hand...track is cheaper than football), equitable scheduling and instructional support.

Title IX has impacted competitive cheerleading, marching band and competitive debate in some states. In public education (through grade 12 or age 21, which ever is completed first!), all students are assumed to have equal opportunity, and Title IX legistlates the competitive activity portion of a school's offerings to all students.

[the donger]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

12 inches?

[hogtheball]

Hell is a triple-elimination girls basketball tournament.

[razorbackbabe]

When women support women's sports equally to men supporting men's sports, then Title IX will be a thing of the past, but until the time women start voting with their pocketbooks it won't happen, and I'm not sure it deserves to happen.

That's true, but as we all know, women's sports (as a whole) just aren't as entertaining as men's sports are.

[the donger]

When women support women's sports equally to men supporting men's sports, then Title IX will be a thing of the past, but until the time women start voting with their pocketbooks it won't happen, and I'm not sure it deserves to happen.

That's true, but as we all know, women's sports (as a whole) just aren't as entertaining as men's sports are.

Except for womens soccer. Now theres a money maker. Not to mention the unbelievable freaking competition. I can't wait until next season. Uh, when is next season? Where do we tailgate? Does Little Rock have any of our games? Man, I hope not,b/c I want to soak in every exciting goal(or 2) I can.
Oh yea, I heard that Mens track is out after next season in favor of womens rugby. Oh well, I guess it's fair.

[ClubChubby]

Women won't be equal till they can walk down the street bald, with a giant beer gut, and STILL think they are sexy.

[Jerry Swinefeld]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

Lol...I probably had twice that in 8th grade and I'm white.

I could jump 26 in HS but then again I weighed 270 lbs

That's impressive.  I don't know what mine is anymore but it's not great.  I'm just a hair over 6 foot with shoes on and I can get the rim on a 10 foot goal.  That's all.  Typical white guy I'm sure.

I'm 5-7.  When I was in high school I could dunk, but couldn't play a lick.  Couldn't see the floor, and see things unfolding.  Never did get that ability.  Just didn't "have it."  That being said, people would rather see a 5-7 guy dunk than watch a girls game. 
Girls sports aren't always boring...they are just not as athletic as men, and aren't as much fun to watch.  Title IX is a crock, invented by PC wussies.  Sports that don't have enough backing to support themselves should be allowed to wither on the vine and die.  Some would strongly oppose this, but as a whole, people wouldn't care - that's why they don't support it in the first place.

That being said, the same priniciple could have been applied to college baseball a few years ago, but now it is beginning to boom, and in several places, actually makes money.  So, when do you pull the plug?

[dishhog10]

title IX sucks.   it is stupidity.   Mens football and basketball bring in the bucks.   All the girls sports do is spend it on sporting events that no one cares about.   If they want to have a girls sport that would sell tickets,they need to try topless volleyball. 

[dana caldwell]

absolutely hate it.

if they want equality, they should have it tho: women's sports should be a separate entity, which it is at the UA, and should be self-supporting, which it isn't.

why should football and men's basketball carry the load and some men's sports, in turn, suffer bc of that?

demand and supply.

[pork-e-pine]

It is a matter of decision making.  I am not for title 9 as it is now but if we are going to use money from basketball and football to pay for sports why not girls and boy sports.  Rowing will never be self supporting for guys or girls.  So we have to decide what to spend the profit on.  Why not some crappy girl sports and some crappy guy sports?
What we shouldn't do as a college is decide which sports aren't worth pursuing because that is not what college is about. It is about pursuing excellence in learning and expanding horizons.  We sometimes forget that College sports no matter how big are not supposed to be about profit.  There is not title 9 for pro sports because they are about money.  (with the possible exception of the WNBA...who thought ot that?)

[hogtheball]

So then should we say that the only sports that are allowed are the ones that can pay for themselves?

High school or college?

All of it.

High school is a different animal.  Title IX becomes an issue in college.  I knew guys at UCA that had to buy their own uniforms in track because they couldn't find another girls sport to keep everything equal.  Whether that was in terms of expenditures or having an equal number of teams, it's pure junk.  Ironically, this can go the other way and against women.

Title IX is very similar if not just like affirmative action aka reverse discrimination.  I've heard the spill and they were probably both written by sisters of Myles Brand. 

If someone wants to play a sport that's fine, but don't you think at some point they should be asked to pay for it?  Take the WNBA for example.  No one cares about watching women jump 12 inches off the ground.

come on a 12 inch VJ is amazing stuff

Lol...I probably had twice that in 8th grade and I'm white.

I could jump 26 in HS but then again I weighed 270 lbs

That's impressive.  I don't know what mine is anymore but it's not great.  I'm just a hair over 6 foot with shoes on and I can get the rim on a 10 foot goal.  That's all.  Typical white guy I'm sure.

I'm 5-7.  When I was in high school I could dunk, but couldn't play a lick.  Couldn't see the floor, and see things unfolding.  Never did get that ability.  Just didn't "have it."  That being said, people would rather see a 5-7 guy dunk than watch a girls game. 
Girls sports aren't always boring...they are just not as athletic as men, and aren't as much fun to watch.  Title IX is a crock, invented by PC wussies.  Sports that don't have enough backing to support themselves should be allowed to wither on the vine and die.  Some would strongly oppose this, but as a whole, people wouldn't care - that's why they don't support it in the first place.

That being said, the same priniciple could have been applied to college baseball a few years ago, but now it is beginning to boom, and in several places, actually makes money.  So, when do you pull the plug?

Be careful - Girls basketball at the UofA takes in more money than men's track and field.  Would you pull the plug on our track program just because it loses revenue?

[hogsanity]

Very few schools have more than one sport that actually makes $$$.  Some have Fb and mens BB, a very few have Womens BB ( TN and UCONN ) and a few have baseball, but by and large the revenue sports are FB and mens BB.  So the revenue maker theory wont work. 

However, having a sport, just because the men have a sport is kind of ridiculous, and leads to the loss of opportunities for both genders.

I think it was Boston u a few years ago that dropped FB and 3 womens sports due to this very thing.  FB was making some $ but the 3 womens sports were losing even more.  So they dropped all 4. 

[hogtheball]

Actually, if they would just come out and make women's jello wrestling a sanctioned NCAA sport, nobody would have a problem with title IX.

[Salvaboar Dali]

Section 1681. Sex

(a) Prohibition against discrimination; exceptions. No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance, except that:

(1) Classes of educational institutions subject to prohibition

in regard to admissions to educational institutions, this section shall apply only to institutions of vocational education, professional education, and graduate higher education, and to public institutions of undergraduate higher education;

(2) Educational institutions commencing planned change in admissions

in regard to admissions to educational institutions, this section shall not apply (A) for one year from June 23, 1972, nor for six years after June 23, 1972, in the case of an educational institution which has begun the process of changing from being an institution which admits only students of one sex to being an institution which admits students of both sexes, but only if it is carrying out a plan for such a change which is approved by the Secretary of Education or (B) for seven years from the date an educational institution begins the process of changing from being an institution which admists only students of one sex to being an institution which admits students of both sexes, but only if it is carrying out a plan for such a change which is approved by the Secretary of Education, whichever is the later;

(3) Educational institutions of religious organizations with contrary religious tenets

this section shall not apply to any educational institution which is controlled by a religious organization if the application of this subsection would not be consistent with the religious tenents of such organization;

(4) Educational institutions training individuals for military services or merchant marine

this section shall not apply to an educational institution whose primary purpose is the training of individuals for the military services of the United States, or the merchant marine;

(5) Public educational institutions with traditional and continuing admissions policy

in regard to admissions this section shall not apply to any public institution of undergraduate higher education which is an institution that traditionally and continually from its establishment has had a policy of admitting only students of one sex;

(6) Social fraternities or sororities; voluntary youth service organizations

this section shall not apply to membership practices --

(A) of a social fraternity or social sorority which is exempt from taxation under section 501(a) of Title 26, the active membership of which consists primarily of students in attendance at an institution of higher education, or

(B) of the Young Men's Christian Association, Young Women's Christian Association; Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Camp Fire Girls, and voluntary youth service organizations which are so exempt, the membership of which has traditionally been limited to persons of one sex and principally to persons of less than nineteen years of age;

(7) Boy or Girl conferences

this section shall not apply to--

(A) any program or activity of the American Legion undertaken in connection with the organization or operation of any Boys State conference, Boys Nation conference, Girls State conference, or Girls Nation conference; or

(B) any program or activity of any secondary school or educational institution specifically for--

(i) the promotion of any Boys State conference, Boys Nation conference, Girls State conference, or Girls Nation conference; or

(ii) the selection of students to attend any such conference;

( Father-son or mother-daughter activities at educational institutions

this section shall not preclude father-son or mother-daughter activities at an educational institution, but if such activities are provided for students of one sex, opportunities for reasonably comparable activities shall be provided for students of the other sex; and

(9) Institutions of higher education scholarship awards in "beauty" pageants

this section shall not apply with respect to any scholarship or other financial assistance awarded by an institution of higher education to any individual because such individual has received such award in any pageant in which the attainment of such award is based upon a combination of factors related to the personal appearance, poise, and talent of such individual and in which participation is limited to individuals of one sex only, so long as such pageant is in compliance with other nondiscrimination provisions of Federal law.

(b) Preferential or disparate treatment because of imbalance in participation or receipt of Federal benefits; statistical evidence of imbalance.

Nothing contained in subsection (a) of this section shall be interpreted to require any educational institution to grant preferential or disparate treatment to the members of one sex on account of an imbalance which may exist with respect to the total number or percentage of persons of that sex participating in or receiving the benefits of any federally supported program or activity, in comparison with the total number or percentage of persons of that sex in any community, State, section, or other area: Provided, that this subsection shall not be construed to prevent the consideration in any hearing or proceeding under this chapter of statistical evidence tending to show that such an imbalance exists with respect to the participation in, or receipt of the benefits of, any such program or activity by the members of one sex.

(c) Educational institution defined.

For the purposes of this chapter an educational institution means any public or private preschool, elementary, or secondary school, or any institution of vocational, professional, or higher education, except that in the case of an educational institution composed of more than one school, college, or department which are administratively separate units, such term means each such school, college or department.

Section 1682. Federal administrative enforcement; report to Congressional committees

Each Federal department and agency which is empowered to extend Federal financial assistance to any education program or activity, by way of grant, loan, or contract other than a contract of insurance or guaranty, is authorized and directed to effectuate the provisions of section 1681 of this title with respect to such program or activity by issuing rules, regulations, or orders of general applicability which shall be consistent with achievement of the objectives of the statute authorizing the financial assistance in connection with which the action is taken. No such rule, regulation, or order shall become effective unless and until approved by the President. Compliance with any requirement adopted pursuant to this section may be effected (l) by the termination of or refusal to grant or to continue assistance under such program or activity to any recipient as to whom there has been an express finding on the record, after opportunity for hearing, of a failure to comply with such requirement, but such termination or refusal shall be limited to the particular political entity, or part thereof, or other recipient as to whom such a finding has been made, and shall be limited in its effect to the particular program, or part thereof, in which such noncompliance has been so found, or (2) by any other means authorized by law: Provided, however, that no such action shall be taken until the department or agency concerned has advised the appropriate person or persons of the failure to comply with the requirement and has determined that compliance cannot be secured by voluntary means. In the case of any action terminating, or refusing to grant or continue, assistance because of failure to comply with a requirement imposed pursuant to this section, the head of the Federal department or agency shall file with the committees of the House and Senate having legislative jurisdiction over the program or activity involved a full written report of the circumstances and the grounds for such action. No such action shall become effective until thirty days have elapsed after the filing of such report.

Section 1683. Judicial Review

Any department or agency action taken pursuant to section 1682 of this title shall be subject to such judicial review as may otherwise be provided by law for similar action taken by such department or agency on other grounds. In the case of action, not otherwise subject to judicial review, terminating or refusing to grant or to continue financial assistance upon a finding of failure to comply with any requirement imposed pursuant to section 1682 of this title, any person aggrieved (including any State or political subdivision thereof and any agency of either) may obtain judicial review of such action in accordance with chapter 7 of title 5, United States Code, and such action shall not be deemed committed to unreviewable agency discretion within the meaning of section 701 of that title.

Section 1684. Blindness or visual impairment; prohibition against discrimination

No person in the United States shall, on the ground of blindness or severely impaired vision, be denied admission in any course of study by a recipient of Federal financial assistance for any education program or activity; but nothing herein shall be construed to require any such institution to provide any special services to such person because of his blindness or visual impairment.

Section 1685. Authority under other laws unaffected

Nothing in this chaper shall add to or detract from any existing authority with respect to any program or activity under which Federal financial assistance is extended by way of a contract of insurance or guaranty.

Section 1686. Interpretation with respect to living facilities

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in this chapter, nothing contained herein shall be construed to prohibit any educational institution receiving funds under this Act, from maintaining separate living facilities for the different sexes.

Section 1687. Interpretation of "program or activity"

For the purposes of this title, the term "program or activity" and "program" mean all of the operations of --

(l)(A) a department, agency, special purpose district, or other instrumentality of a State or of a local government; or

(B) the entity of such State or local government that distributed such assistance and each such department or agency (and each other State or local government entity) to which the assistance is extended, in the case of assistance to a State or local government;

(2)(A) a college, university, or other postsecondary institution, or a public system of higher education; or

(B) a local educational agency (as defined in section2854(a)(10) of this title, system of vocational education, or other school system;

(3)(A) an entire corporation, partnership, or other private organization, or an entire sole proprietorship --

(i) if assistance is extended to such corporation, partnership, private organization, or sole proprietorship as a whole; or

(ii) which is principally engaged in the business of providing education, health care, housing, social services, or parks and recreation; or

(B) the entire plant or other comparable, geographically separate facility to which Federal financial assistance is extended, in the case of any other corporation, partnership, private organization, or sole proprietorship; or

(4) any other entity which is established by two or more of the entities described in paragraph (l), (2) or (3);

any part of which is extended Federal financial assistance, except that such term does not include any operation of an entity which is controlled by a religious organization if the application of section 1681 if this title to such operation would not be consistent with the religious tenets of such organization.

Section 1688. Neutrality with respect to abortion

Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to require or prohibit any person, or public or private entity, to provide or pay for any benefit or service, including the use of facilities, related to an abortion. Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit a penalty to be imposed on any person or individual because such person or individual is seeking or has received any benefit or service related to a legal abortion.

[10thPlanet]

When you guy's have a girl or two your views will change some. I hope some of you guy's never have girls or you'll  have them working at Hooters, or a sex object wearing skimpy stuff cheering. Face it if the UofA wasn't spending a few $ to support Womens athletics, building charactor, and all the things athletics do for these young women, they would be just paying Nutt 2 Mil a year to suck.

[hogmary]

I do not have a problem with women playing sports.  I resent their doing it at the expense of men's sports.  It is not a level playing field and never will be, no matter how much they try to tip it in the women's direction.  Title IX is the reason we no longer have a men's swim team at the UA, and why Blinn Jr. College (which used to be the UA's equivalent at the JC level in track) no longer has a men's track team.  Totally and completely unfair that men's basketball, track and baseball have fewer scholarships than women's basketball, track and softball.  You do know that every time you buy an officially licensed product of the UA, the money goes to the women's athletic dept, don't you?   Donna Lopiano and her ilk will not be happy until there are no more men's sports at all.  Cannot imagine how she was ever the women's athletic director at Texas.  I want all the UA teams to do well and I really like the women's coaches...the only women I ever see compete at the UA are the track athletes.  That's because they compete at the same time as the men.

[razorbackbabe]

When you guy's have a girl or two your views will change some. I hope some of you guy's never have girls or you'll  have them working at Hooters, or a sex object wearing skimpy stuff cheering. Face it if the UofA wasn't spending a few $ to support Womens athletics, building charactor, and all the things athletics do for these young women, they would be just paying Nutt 2 Mil a year to suck.

Very true. Without the opportunity to participate in sports in high school, I'm sure I'd be a completely different person. Just because a program isn't completely self-supporting doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist (i.e. our men's track program).

[hogsanity]

When you guy's have a girl or two your views will change some. I hope some of you guy's never have girls or you'll  have them working at Hooters, or a sex object wearing skimpy stuff cheering. Face it if the UofA wasn't spending a few $ to support Womens athletics, building charactor, and all the things athletics do for these young women, they would be just paying Nutt 2 Mil a year to suck.

Very true. Without the opportunity to participate in sports in high school, I'm sure I'd be a completely different person. Just because a program isn't completely self-supporting doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist (i.e. our men's track program).

Not saying they should not exist, but should they exist at the expense of men's sports. 

[Bill_Smith]

At the risk of giving in to what I personally think was nothing more than a summer time taunt to get a thread started . . . .

Regarding the high school, OK; college, not -- funny thing the law, it doesn't care.

And, I'd like to echo the earlier thread; show of hands of those with daughters that think Title IX is a bad thing.

[Bill_Smith]

I do not have a problem with women playing sports.  I resent their doing it at the expense of men's sports.  It is not a level playing field and never will be, no matter how much they try to tip it in the women's direction.  Title IX is the reason we no longer have a men's swim team at the UA, and why Blinn Jr. College (which used to be the UA's equivalent at the JC level in track) no longer has a men's track team.  Totally and completely unfair that men's basketball, track and baseball have fewer scholarships than women's basketball, track and softball.  You do know that every time you buy an officially licensed product of the UA, the money goes to the women's athletic dept, don't you?   Donna Lopiano and her ilk will not be happy until there are no more men's sports at all.  Cannot imagine how she was ever the women's athletic director at Texas.  I want all the UA teams to do well and I really like the women's coaches...the only women I ever see compete at the UA are the track athletes.  That's because they compete at the same time as the men.

Myth check:  men's swimming was not dropped for Title IX.

[10thPlanet]

Hogmary, I agree not at the expense of any mens sport, debating team, or band. Do you think these men's team coaches are a bit over paid to coach a GAME? Didn't they take on this profession of education for the kids? Lets take the Administrators, AD's,and Chancellors, you think they might be a bit over paid at the expense of the Students? How big of an Ego and salary do we let these people obtain over what is SUPPOSED to be for the Future of OUR Country(young Men and Women)?
I'm not a PC person, just a Daddy.

[Jerry Swinefeld]

At the risk of giving in to what I personally think was nothing more than a summer time taunt to get a thread started . . . .

Regarding the high school, OK; college, not -- funny thing the law, it doesn't care.

And, I'd like to echo the earlier thread; show of hands of those with daughters that think Title IX is a bad thing.

I have a daughter.  I think its a bad thing.  I earned what I got in the world, and expect her to do the same.  That may sound coarse, but I just don't want her to expect/depend on a handout.  Things that are earned are much more valuable.

[10thPlanet]

Jerry you going to buy her/or expect her to buy a D-I university or do you wish her to play on the Mens team? U think any of these Men invented College Basketball? What do you do for a living? Did you invent it, all the resources/materials that it took to make a profit? I promise you Swinefeld you sit down and look at your success in life someone helped you, you maybe a hard worker, but someone helped you somewhere whether you want to admit it or not.
People have different ways of raising their kids, but if you expect her to earn everything and not give her every advantage YOU can give her in life you need to buy/No have her start building a hammer/ chisel to start chiseling out that stone wheel for her Car.

[Oklahawg]

I guess I'm the only one focused on HS stuff here, but I might remind that compulsory public school education (through age 16 or graduation, and capping at age 21) sees ALL students as equal, and Title IX simply extends that to the field of competition. Even if the "field" is a cheerleading activity, or dance, or band, or whatever.

In college Title IX should have been an additive process; existing men's programs grandfathered in and women's programs added over time. A former student of mine is looking at colleges for a year from now (graduates next spring). She is bright, personable, talented in several areas and has the financial resources to go whereever her brains and heart take her.

She asked for advice on choosing. After I coughed out "Arkansas" and we both laughed I suggested she do an internet check of schools with lots of "cool", secondary sports for women, even club status sports. I said if you are not going to go to a flagship, land-grant school (and told her there are 30-40 nationwide that would be awesome, with Arkansas at the top of the list) then go to a school whose landscape is not dominated by the football stadium. Find a place where the student union, or library, or equivalent of Old Main is the focal point of campus.

Her check is still running but she came up with a bunch of neat schools--Williams College, Dartmouth, and a few other exclusives in the Northeast. It also popped up Tulsa, Missouri-Kansas City, and Rhodes in Memphis. She is intrigued by Virginia and North Carolina.

The reality check isn't money or academics or distance from home. The kicker is the major -- agricultural science or agri engineering. I keep telling her UA is the place. And, she still can cheer and/or be in band.

[10thPlanet]

Oklahawg, sounds like your doing a great job mentoring this kid.

[Oklahawg]

If I leave it to the counselor at school she'll wind up at a local state college that gives out lots of money in scholarships. She doesn't need scholarships--she needs to get OUT and learn. Her folks are six-figure wage earners; money is no object. She has a 3.8 and a 26 on the ACT as a junior; academics are no problem.

[Salvaboar Dali]

At the risk of giving in to what I personally think was nothing more than a summer time taunt to get a thread started . . . .

Regarding the high school, OK; college, not -- funny thing the law, it doesn't care.

And, I'd like to echo the earlier thread; show of hands of those with daughters that think Title IX is a bad thing.

I have a daughter.  I think its a bad thing.  I earned what I got in the world, and expect her to do the same.  That may sound coarse, but I just don't want her to expect/depend on a handout.  Things that are earned are much more valuable.

Riiight.

Let her get a 29 ACT and miss the Chancellors Scholarship and I bet you wll be in the appeal line.

[razorbackbabe]

If I leave it to the counselor at school she'll wind up at a local state college that gives out lots of money in scholarships. She doesn't need scholarships--she needs to get OUT and learn. Her folks are six-figure wage earners; money is no object. She has a 3.8 and a 26 on the ACT as a junior; academics are no problem.

With the major that she wants, regardless of other factors, the U of A is a pretty good choice.

[hogtusk]

I would have liked a Title X or XI when I was in college. I'm male but wasn't athletic enough to play the normal college sports. Maybe with Title X colleges would have been required to have some sports I could have played. Foosball, shuffleboard something like that.

[hogtheball]

At the risk of giving in to what I personally think was nothing more than a summer time taunt to get a thread started . . . .

Regarding the high school, OK; college, not -- funny thing the law, it doesn't care.

And, I'd like to echo the earlier thread; show of hands of those with daughters that think Title IX is a bad thing.

I have a daughter.  I think its a bad thing.  I earned what I got in the world, and expect her to do the same.  That may sound coarse, but I just don't want her to expect/depend on a handout.  Things that are earned are much more valuable.

To be completely fair, almost all college sports are a handout.  Mens track and field at the UofA loses more money than women's soccer and softball combined.  Mens football and basketball bring in positive revenue and all other sports lose money - yes, even baseball.    Title IX is in place so that schools don't lose all their money on mens sports and distribute some of the losses to the women. 

By your way of thinking, If your little boy gets a baseball scholarship to any major college but Texas, he is taking a handout.  If your little boy gets a track and field scholarship to the greatest athletic program in the country - he is taking a handout because it does not produce positive revenue. 

If we limited colleges to sports programs that make money, there would be about 32 football teams, 7 or 8 mens basketball teams, 2 womens basketball teams, and 2 or 3 baseball teams.  College athletics would be gone. 

[hogmary]

Bill, explain exactly why the men's swim program was dropped.  It was my understanding at the time that the SEC, in a defensive measure, decided to offer more women's sports than men's to try to protect football from further cuts by the NCAA and swimming was dropped to get the UA into compliance.  The reason, I thought, that football needed to be protected was two-fold:  smaller schools who couldn't afford what the bigger schools could wanted to cut the bigger schools down to their size and the interpretations of Title IX re equalizing scholarships and opportunities between men and women.  I know that you work for the women's athletic department and you should know.

[Jerry Swinefeld]

At the risk of giving in to what I personally think was nothing more than a summer time taunt to get a thread started . . . .

Regarding the high school, OK; college, not -- funny thing the law, it doesn't care.

And, I'd like to echo the earlier thread; show of hands of those with daughters that think Title IX is a bad thing.

I have a daughter.  I think its a bad thing.  I earned what I got in the world, and expect her to do the same.  That may sound coarse, but I just don't want her to expect/depend on a handout.  Things that are earned are much more valuable.

Riiight.

Let her get a 29 ACT and miss the Chancellors Scholarship and I bet you wll be in the appeal line.

No offense, but I bet I won't.
I paid for my college education out of my pocket.
No grants.
No scholarships.
No help from my parents.
At the same time, I was married, and worked a full time job.
Then, halfway through, my daughter came along.
The only line I was ever in was the line for WIC...and the nurse told us that since our daughter was healthy, we didn't qualify.  Financially we did, but evidently we fed her too well.  We saw to it that she had what she needed, then we worried about the other things, as a result of taking good care of her, we didn't get crap.
Because of this, I want her to have the best of everything life can offer, but I want her to appreciate it.
I only want her to know the value of earning what you get.

[WichitaStateRazorback]

I would have liked a Title X or XI when I was in college. I'm male but wasn't athletic enough to play the normal college sports. Maybe with Title X colleges would have been required to have some sports I could have played. Foosball, shuffleboard something like that.

Don't forget Beer Pong. I have been all MVC(Missouri Valley) 2 years in a row.

[hogtheball]

If I leave it to the counselor at school she'll wind up at a local state college that gives out lots of money in scholarships. She doesn't need scholarships--she needs to get OUT and learn. Her folks are six-figure wage earners; money is no object. She has a 3.8 and a 26 on the ACT as a junior; academics are no problem.

It's a good thing she doesn't need lots of scholarships because a 26 on the ACT isn't going to do it - even at her local state schools.  She might get some "polite" assistance but no real money.