Welcome to Hogville!      Do Not Sell My Personal Information


March 29, 2024, 01:21:43 am

TJ Moss

Started by NWAHog479, June 26, 2017, 09:17:13 am

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

bkjbearcat

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on July 11, 2017, 09:41:19 pm
Bielema...

And his class rankings at Arkansas
2017: 27 (right now)
2016: 23
2015: 22
2014: 29
2013: 23

Pretty good, for Arkansas. Now other schools in the SEC, not so much. I'm afraid that's the way it's going to be in basketball as long as MA is here.

2017: 38
2016: 31
2015: 101
2014: 43
2013: 19
2012: 46

Pretty good, for Arkansas.
B-E-A-R-C-A-T-S BEARCATS, BEARCATS GOOOOOOO BEARCATS!!!!!!!<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Football: 1998, 1999, 2009, 2013, 2015, 2016<br /><br />D2 National Champs in Mens Basketball: 2017, 2019, No.1 team in 2020,2021, 2022

azhog10

Quote from: Nosboar Accubond on July 11, 2017, 09:41:19 pm
Bielema...

And his class rankings at Arkansas
2017: 27 (right now)
2016: 23
2015: 22
2014: 29
2013: 23
The number of D1 basketball programs far exceed the number of D1 football teams. Lots of good basketball programs in the Midwest without a D1 football team. Go by percentage and basketball is far and away the better in terms of recruiting.

 

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: ShadowHawg on June 27, 2017, 05:20:53 pm
Proximity is the biggest factor in recruiting if you actually do homework on the subject.

Arkansas has never consistently pulled anything more than regional talent. The problem with that these days has been the rise of programs like OU, Texas, A&M, and Memphis in our previous "out of state" talent pool.

You just have an agenda and it's one based in poor understanding of today's recruiting climate and what drives commitments. PJ Dozier was from South Carolina as was Sindarius Thornwell. Most of Miss St classes have been from in state.

Auburn, think Georgia and Alabama basically as their home "state" they have a total of 2 guys from previous classes and current commits not from Alabama or Georgia.

You are woefully uninformed.
That's not exactly true.
Two coaches in the modern era have proven to be outstanding recruiters. By outstanding, the definition is ability to pull in out-of-state players. Nolan Richardson and Stan Heath.

Richardson:
Ron Huery-Memphis
Oliver Miller-Fort Worth
Scotty Thurman-Louisiana
Derek Hood-Kansas City
Kareem Reid-New York
Darnell Robinson-California
Glendon Alexander-Texas
Lee Wilson-Texas
Pat Bradley-Boston

Clearly from about 1985-1995 Arkansas was a 'destination' program.

Heath:
Eric Ferguson-New York
Steven Hil-Missouri
Al Jefferson-Mississippi
Olu Famutimi-Canada
Charles Thomas-Mississippi
Darian Townes-Virginia
Patrick Beverly-Chicago

Outstanding recruiting done under Heath.

We know that Nolan was also a good coach, while Heath not that great. Good recruiting plus good coaching gave the great results from 1985-95.

Pelphrey was probably underrated as a recruiter.
BJ Young-St Louis
Marshawn Powell-Virginia
Rotnei Clarke-Oklahoma

Anderson is a better overall coach for the program than Heath or Pelphrey.
I'm not sure he wouldn't rank at the bottom of the list for recruiting, though.
This is precisely the reason I wasn't excited when he was hired in 2011, and said so. He had never proven to be a great recruiter, and without great recruiting it's hard to be an elite program. Isn't that the goal? To be elite again? I just thought Mike had always done a good job wherever he's been and would do a good job here(and has), but there is no high ceiling with him. If you're goal is 'pretty good', then Mike is your guy, and that's fine actually, you're just not going to be elite. The caveat is we might get lucky with a bunch of instate guys that want to be Hogs and maybe cherry pick a border-state guy here and there that's real good. 

Pig in the Pokey

clearly the answer is for Mike Anderson to hire Stan Heath as his #1 assistant/recruiting coordinator
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

Pinto

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on July 12, 2017, 12:12:55 pm
clearly the answer is for Mike Anderson to hire Stan Heath as his #1 assistant/recruiting coordinator

I think him bringing on Thurman was a great move. Just gotta let Scottie get some experience...

niels_boar

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 12, 2017, 10:19:10 am
That's not exactly true.
Two coaches in the modern era have proven to be outstanding recruiters. By outstanding, the definition is ability to pull in out-of-state players. Nolan Richardson and Stan Heath.

Richardson:
Ron Huery-Memphis
Oliver Miller-Fort Worth
Scotty Thurman-Louisiana
Derek Hood-Kansas City
Kareem Reid-New York
Darnell Robinson-California
Glendon Alexander-Texas
Lee Wilson-Texas
Pat Bradley-Boston

Clearly from about 1985-1995 Arkansas was a 'destination' program.

Heath:
Eric Ferguson-New York
Steven Hil-Missouri
Al Jefferson-Mississippi
Olu Famutimi-Canada
Charles Thomas-Mississippi
Darian Townes-Virginia
Patrick Beverly-Chicago

Outstanding recruiting done under Heath.

We know that Nolan was also a good coach, while Heath not that great. Good recruiting plus good coaching gave the great results from 1985-95.

Pelphrey was probably underrated as a recruiter.
BJ Young-St Louis
Marshawn Powell-Virginia
Rotnei Clarke-Oklahoma

Anderson is a better overall coach for the program than Heath or Pelphrey.
I'm not sure he wouldn't rank at the bottom of the list for recruiting, though.
This is precisely the reason I wasn't excited when he was hired in 2011, and said so. He had never proven to be a great recruiter, and without great recruiting it's hard to be an elite program. Isn't that the goal? To be elite again? I just thought Mike had always done a good job wherever he's been and would do a good job here(and has), but there is no high ceiling with him. If you're goal is 'pretty good', then Mike is your guy, and that's fine actually, you're just not going to be elite. The caveat is we might get lucky with a bunch of instate guys that want to be Hogs and maybe cherry pick a border-state guy here and there that's real good.

Your list is still mainly regional players, i.e. those from states that border Arkansas.  Bradley was not heavily recruited. He was a good evaluation, not a recruiting coup.  The two truly national recruiting coups under CNR were Reid and Robinson, both signed at the absolute peak of our success after a long period of national prominence. Ferguson was a 3-star, not a major signing, and Heath doesn't get credit for signing a player that was never going to play college basketball. Spending resources on Jefferson was a fool's errand.
The jawbone of an ass is just as dangerous a weapon today as in Sampson's time.

Hogimus Prime

Quote from: niels_boar on July 12, 2017, 01:25:07 pm
Your list is still mainly regional players, i.e. those from states that border Arkansas.  Bradley was not heavily recruited. He was a good evaluation, not a recruiting coup.  The two truly national recruiting coups under CNR were Reid and Robinson, both signed at the absolute peak of our success after a long period of national prominence. Ferguson was a 3-star, not a major signing, and Heath doesn't get credit for signing a player that was never going to play college basketball. Spending resources on Jefferson was a fool's errand.

Heath's spending resources on Jefferson cost him Chris Lofton that ended up at Tennessee.

batmanfan

Quote from: nwahogfan1 on July 10, 2017, 10:13:10 pm
Batman keep hanging there and say what is on your mind.  I want all fans whether their happy with what they see on the court or not to speak their minds.  We do not want only one side.   That leads to being PC which dumbs us down as a fan base.   

It is very factual Mike doesn't recruit well nationally.  It is well known when Mike has a good signing class it is either s local kid or one tied to him some how.  I was hoping Scotty would make a big impact and he might later. 

Speak the truth.



Thanks. People want to defend MA to no end when they argue something that isn't really arguable. Dude and his staff struggle with recruiting in general, mainly out of state. That's all I'm saying. Then people try to argue this and all they can come back with is that you are a bad fan is STUPID. I like MA as a coach and person but this likely won't change until he gets someone on staff who knows how to sell it man.
Images should not be any wider or taller than 250 pixels, max two images.  use  or  to accomplish this.  Total image width is allowed to be 500 pixels, maximum.  Maximum size of all signature images cannot exceed 100,000 total bytes.

King Kong

Quote from: niels_boar on July 12, 2017, 01:25:07 pm
Your list is still mainly regional players, i.e. those from states that border Arkansas.  Bradley was not heavily recruited. He was a good evaluation, not a recruiting coup.  The two truly national recruiting coups under CNR were Reid and Robinson, both signed at the absolute peak of our success after a long period of national prominence. Ferguson was a 3-star, not a major signing, and Heath doesn't get credit for signing a player that was never going to play college basketball. Spending resources on Jefferson was a fool's errand.

Jefferson was a projected late first/early second round pick. He didn't sign with a agent until he got drafted in the first round. Had he fallen to the second round he would have been a Razorback.

All which was legal prior to the one and done

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: niels_boar on July 12, 2017, 01:25:07 pm
Your list is still mainly regional players, i.e. those from states that border Arkansas.  Bradley was not heavily recruited. He was a good evaluation, not a recruiting coup.  The two truly national recruiting coups under CNR were Reid and Robinson, both signed at the absolute peak of our success after a long period of national prominence. Ferguson was a 3-star, not a major signing, and Heath doesn't get credit for signing a player that was never going to play college basketball. Spending resources on Jefferson was a fool's errand.
It's amazing how good recruiters leave their mark almost right away.
I agree Ferguson wasn't a high recruit.
But Heath walked into a bad situation. His team in 2003-04 had almost no talent.
But almost right after he took the job, he was getting signatures from pretty good, out-of-state players like Ferguson and Kendrick Davis. Good players.
He was also drawing legitimate interest from stars like Daniel Gibson and LaMarcus Aldridge.
I was thinking at the time...'wow, this is exciting. We're going to get some top talent in here again'.
And we did.
Of course, Heath's coaching and control of the program made it very frustrating to see all that talent, but results were underwhelming.

Same thing with new women's coach Mike Neighbors. He has walked in and is instantly getting signatures and legit interest from top prospects. Pretty impressive work so far. Things are looking up.

These guys show right away whether they can recruit or not.

batmanfan

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 12, 2017, 02:00:54 pm
It's amazing how good recruiters leave their mark almost right away.
I agree Ferguson wasn't a high recruit.
But Heath walked into a bad situation. His team in 2003-04 had almost no talent.
But almost right after he took the job, he was getting signatures from pretty good, out-of-state players like Ferguson and Kendrick Davis. Good players.
He was also drawing legitimate interest from stars like Daniel Gibson and LaMarcus Aldridge.
I was thinking at the time...'wow, this is exciting. We're going to get some top talent in here again'.
And we did.
Of course, Heath's coaching and control of the program made it very frustrating to see all that talent, but results were underwhelming.

Same thing with new women's coach Mike Neighbors. He has walked in and is instantly getting signatures and legit interest from top prospects. Pretty impressive work so far. Things are looking up.

These guys show right away whether they can recruit or not.

Yep, basically if you can recruit you can recruit. For the most part it doesn't matter where you are.
Images should not be any wider or taller than 250 pixels, max two images.  use  or  to accomplish this.  Total image width is allowed to be 500 pixels, maximum.  Maximum size of all signature images cannot exceed 100,000 total bytes.

tophawg19

he doesn't really need to go outside much . just keep local kids home . Have y'all bothered to check out our AAU teams ? Year after year they are strong . We can build a very solid foundation just in Arkansas and then add the extra players from surrounding areas . Basketball doesn't really require as much in recruiting because the south produces higher levels of talent and the kids play year around in many areas . 2 or 3 good players can flip a whole team and Arkansas is producing a high level of them. You can't go by recruiting rankings in basketball as much as football. A good coach can change a kids skill set in a short time .
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

Nosboar Accubond

Quote from: azhog10 on July 12, 2017, 09:09:26 am
The number of D1 basketball programs far exceed the number of D1 football teams. Lots of good basketball programs in the Midwest without a D1 football team. Go by percentage and basketball is far and away the better in terms of recruiting.
My point was the poster was spouting about CBB class rankings always being in the 30-50 range, then tied it to basketball recruiting.

Not sure how they drew all that, but at least I could point out the numbers made no sense.