Head Coach Career Killer U?

[HognotinMemphis]

Head coaches at Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC:

1. Jackson Crowe - head coach from 1990 thru 1st game of 1992
2. Joesph Kines - head coach 1992 for all but 1 game
3. Daniel Ford - head coach from 1993 through 1997
4. Houston Dale Nutt - head coach from 1998 through 2007
5. Robert Petrino - head coach from 2008 through 2011
6. John Lesley Smith - head coach 2012
7. Bret Bielema - head coach 2013 to present

After they were done at Arkansas:

1. 3 years at Baylor as OC then out of college football for 5 years. Then HC at J'ville State from 2000 to 2012. Out of college football since 2012.

2. Career assistant through 2009. Out of college football since.

3. Out of college football since.

4. 4 seasons as head coach at Ole Miss. Out of college football since last season at Ole Miss. While at Ole Miss, his SEC record:
Year 1: 5-3
Year 2: 4-4
Year 3: 1-7
Year 4: 0-8
Also was the genesis of the "Houston Nutt Rule", created by the SEC and enforced beginning with the 2010 season.

5. Out of college football for 1 year, then head coach at W. KY for 1 year, 2013. Head coach for 2nd time at Louisville since 2014.

6. 3 years, 2013-2015, as head coach at Fort Lewis, a Div II program, then Head Coach at KY State since 2016, also a Div II program.

7.  TBD

[bphi11ips]

Nah.

Jack Crowe sucked.

Joe Kines. Interim, never HC material.

Danny Ford. Fire was out before he took Arkansas job.

HDN. Monkey with a whistle. Own worst enemy.

Petrino. Self-imposed exile now doing what he does best at a G5 school masquerading as P5.

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

[Polecat]

Nah.

Jack Crowe sucked.

Joe Kines. Interim, never HC material.

Danny Ford. Fire was out before he took Arkansas job.

HDN. Monkey with a whistle. Own worst enemy.

Petrino. Self-imposed exile now doing what he does best at a G5 school masquerading as P5.

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

Dead on, except I wish I had your confidence about Bret this season

[HognotinMemphis]

Nah.

Jack Crowe sucked.

Joe Kines. Interim, never HC material.

Danny Ford. Fire was out before he took Arkansas job.

HDN. Monkey with a whistle. Own worst enemy.

Petrino. Self-imposed exile now doing what he does best at a G5 school masquerading as P5.

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

I'll go with your comments on each over my suggestion in my post. Given that, it sure says a lot about the people doing the head coach hiring at Arkansas over past 25 years. And none of it is good.

[Agent S]

Nah.

Jack Crowe sucked.

Joe Kines. Interim, never HC material.

Danny Ford. Fire was out before he took Arkansas job.

HDN. Monkey with a whistle. Own worst enemy.

Petrino. Self-imposed exile now doing what he does best at a G5 school masquerading as P5.

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

Lmao at ur last statement nephew.

[gchamblee]

Well this thread was a fail lol.

[GunnerHawg70]

I'll go with your comments on each over my suggestion in my post. Given that, it sure says a lot about the people doing the head coach hiring at Arkansas over past 25 years. And none of it is good.

Well it's only been two AD's and that's Frank B. and Jeff L.  I guess it's safe to say that getting a high profile home run hire is defined as what?  I'm sure Hogs AD's thought the former HBC's were great hires.

[GunnerHawg70]

Nah.

Jack Crowe sucked.

Joe Kines. Interim, never HC material.

Danny Ford. Fire was out before he took Arkansas job.

HDN. Monkey with a whistle. Own worst enemy.

Petrino. Self-imposed exile now doing what he does best at a G5 school masquerading as P5.

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

One can only hope and pray the boys get it figured out then go on a monster win run...Here's to hoping

[Atlhogfan1]

It isn't Arkansas who hurt their careers. 

Bielema had the most to lose taking our job when he did.

Timing matters.  Crowe may have been an okay coach somewhere at the D1 level.  He got our job the year we had one of our worst defenses ever where the team speed was so lacking we couldn't stop the near dead SWC.  We were at a decades low in talent and moving up in competition.  He didn't know he didn't want this job at the time he got it. 

Kines as bp says was never going to be a HC.

Ford's best days were behind him.

Nutt shouldn't have gotten our job. 

Petrino's situation isn't because of Arkansas or his coaching ability.


Holtz only one of modern era to do anything substantial after Arkansas.  Says more about his ability than Arkansas and his lost focus near the end of his Arkansas tenure.

[Atlhogfan1]

Well it's only been two AD's and that's Frank B. and Jeff L.  I guess it's safe to say that getting a high profile home run hire is defined as what?  I'm sure Hogs AD's thought the former HBC's were great hires.

Frank chose Hatfield over JJ.  Then realized in 87 what an underwhelming staff Hatfield insisted on keeping and how college football was passing us by. 

Frank panicked when Hatfield left and elevated Crowe.

I think Ford was hired because Danny understood what it was going to take to compete in the SEC.  Didn't know the fire wasn't what it was or the new generation of players were getting softer. 

I'm not sure he thought these were going to be great hires.

Frank picked Tuberville who was in his prime and had just rebuilt OM from major sanctions into a competitive SEC program.  The most logical decision he had made in coaching hires.  White's committee chose Nutt after the campaign. 

[bphi11ips]

Lmao at ur last statement nephew.

You meant son, didn't you son?

[HognotinMemphis]

It isn't Arkansas who hurt their careers. 

Bielema had the most to lose taking our job when he did.

Timing matters.  Crowe may have been an okay coach somewhere at the D1 level.  He got our job the year we had one of our worst defenses ever where the team speed was so lacking we couldn't stop the near dead SWC.  We were at a decades low in talent and moving up in competition.  He didn't know he didn't want this job at the time he got it. 

Kines as bp says was never going to be a HC.

Ford's best days were behind him.

Nutt shouldn't have gotten our job. 

Petrino's situation isn't because of Arkansas or his coaching ability.


Holtz only one of modern era to do anything substantial after Arkansas.  Says more about his ability than Arkansas and his lost focus near the end of his Arkansas tenure.

You have a unique excuse for everything. I'd like to hire you to represent Bret Bielema.

[HognotinMemphis]

Well this thread was a fail lol.

Great contribution to the subject. Stick to photography.

[12247]

Hoggin, I have expressed your conclusion several times on Hogville.  Our root problem is in the hiring.  Once that is screwed up you are then at the total mercy of luck and total accident.

[Atlhogfan1]

You have a unique excuse for everything. I'd like to hire you to represent Bret Bielema.

Where did I excuse Bielema? 

I didn't participate in your agenda as you wanted. 

[HognotinMemphis]

Frank chose Hatfield over JJ.  Then realized in 87 what an underwhelming staff Hatfield insisted on keeping and how college football was passing us by. 

Passing Hatfield by? His last two years at Arkansas he won the SWC and went to the CB, narrowly losing both of the bowl games. Lost a total of 2 regular season games in last 2 years at Ark. He moved on to coach 4 seasons at Clemson going 10-2, 9-2-1, 5-6 and 8-3. Then to Rice as head coach for 12 seasons because he liked it there, even though it's no football mecca. Not a logical conclusion to say game was passing him by in 1989.

[Atlhogfan1]

Passing Hatfield by? His last two years at Arkansas he won the SWC and went to the CB, narrowly losing both of the bowl games. Lost a total of 2 regular season games in last 2 years at Ark. He moved on to coach 4 seasons at Clemson going 10-2, 9-2-1, 5-6 and 8-3. Then to Rice as head coach for 12 seasons because he liked it there, even though it's no football mecca. Not a logical conclusion to say game was passing him by in 1989.

It was. Defensively and offensively.  Speed was becoming more valued.  After the Az St win in 85, only other major conf team/Indy he beat was Ole Miss outside of the SWC.

Clemson declined. 

[DeltaBoy]

Yes Frank blew it when he would not hire Jimmy Johnson when Jimmy begged to come home.  He would have been our Bear Bryant.

[gchamblee]

Great contribution to the subject. Stick to photography.

The subject is just another ridiculous topic started by you. Why would I have something of value to contribute to a ridiculous thread? Stick to disappearing for 2 years at a time. Those were a good 2 years.

[Inhogswetrust]

Head coaches at Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC:

1. Jackson Crowe - head coach from 1990 thru 1st game of 1992
2. Joesph Kines - head coach 1992 for all but 1 game
3. Daniel Ford - head coach from 1993 through 1997
4. Houston Dale Nutt - head coach from 1998 through 2007
5. Robert Petrino - head coach from 2008 through 2011
6. John Lesley Smith - head coach 2012
7. Bret Bielema - head coach 2013 to present

After they were done at Arkansas:

1. 3 years at Baylor as OC then out of college football for 5 years. Then HC at J'ville State from 2000 to 2012. Out of college football since 2012.

2. Career assistant through 2009. Out of college football since.

3. Out of college football since.

4. 4 seasons as head coach at Ole Miss. Out of college football since last season at Ole Miss. While at Ole Miss, his SEC record:
Year 1: 5-3
Year 2: 4-4
Year 3: 1-7
Year 4: 0-8
Also was the genesis of the "Houston Nutt Rule", created by the SEC and enforced beginning with the 2010 season.

5. Out of college football for 1 year, then head coach at W. KY for 1 year, 2013. Head coach for 2nd time at Louisville since 2014.

6. 3 years, 2013-2015, as head coach at Fort Lewis, a Div II program, then Head Coach at KY State since 2016, also a Div II program.

7.  TBD

You will do anything to stir something up. Two of those were never going to be anything more than interims. Another was fired for stuff off the field completely unrelated to the team. Another would have never gotten the job if not for Hatfield leaving when he did and the time was short to get someone hired. It fast became obvious he was ill prepared to handle the job.

[HognotinMemphis]

The subject is just another ridiculous topic started by you. Why would I have something of value to contribute to a ridiculous thread? Stick to disappearing for 2 years at a time. Those were a good 2 years.

It seems to be just you. Stay off the thread if you have no content that adds. I've had stalkers before though. Enjoy watching me.

[HognotinMemphis]

You will do anything to stir something up. Two of those were never going to be anything more than interims. another was fired for stuff off the field completely unrelated to the team. Another would have never gotten the job if not for Hatfield leaving when he did and the time was short to get someone hired. It fast became obvious he was ill prepared to handle the job.

Whatever you say, Mr. 32,000+ comments. I'm sure you are right.

[Inhogswetrust]

Whatever you say, Mr. 32,000+ comments. I'm sure you are right.

Your reputation precedes you. That being said lighten up Francis.......................sometimes people are here just to have fun and not stir stuff up.

[ShadowHawg]

I love the narrative on Ford. "He had lost his fire".

Yep. That's exactly how he took Crowe's NAIA level talent, stirred in Madre Hill, and went to our first SEC championship game.

Ford got fired for standing up to Broyles' meddling. He agreed to hire the pass happy oc Frank forced on him but after he saw the playbook was too complicated he made them pare it down and run more.

The line couldn't pass protect and the sacks they gave up made the rushing stats look futile even though a defensive back had to be the "feature back" after injuries. That defensive back, Rod Stinson, went for over 100 yards against Tenn late in the season.

Unlike with our current situation, the team was flashing signs of being good next season, which they were.

The narrative was that Ford lost his players in theSouth Carolina game. Actual season results show that an extremely young team played very competitively against a tough schedule AFTER the SC debacle.

But Broyles history shows he didn't mix well with coaches that had a back bone.

[Piggfoot]

I love the narrative on Ford. "He had lost his fire".

Yep. That's exactly how he took Crowe's NAIA level talent, stirred in Madre Hill, and went to our first SEC championship game.

Ford got fired for standing up to Broyles' meddling. He agreed to hire the pass happy oc Frank forced on him but after he saw the playbook was too complicated he made them pare it down and run more.

The line couldn't pass protect and the sacks they gave up made the rushing stats look futile even though a defensive back had to be the "feature back" after injuries. That defensive back, Rod Stinson, went for over 100 yards against Tenn late in the season.

Unlike with our current situation, the team was flashing signs of being good next season, which they were.

The narrative was that Ford lost his players in theSouth Carolina game. Actual season results show that an extremely young team played very competitively against a tough schedule AFTER the SC debacle.

But Broyles history shows he didn't mix well with coaches that had a back bone.

Absolutely. Broyles would not let the coaches coach. If left alone Ford could have done a good job if allowed to do it his way. Broyles also didn't let Hatfield do his job. Hatfield left leaving a poor recruiting class.
Frank over reacted in firing Crowe because he lost the Citadel game. The Citadel went on to win their division Championship.

[MJ2]

I think they all said this was the last job they wanted.   In some cases it worked out for them.

[hogsanity]

I love the narrative on Ford. "He had lost his fire".

Yep. That's exactly how he took Crowe's NAIA level talent, stirred in Madre Hill, and went to our first SEC championship game.

Ford got fired for standing up to Broyles' meddling. He agreed to hire the pass happy oc Frank forced on him but after he saw the playbook was too complicated he made them pare it down and run more.

The line couldn't pass protect and the sacks they gave up made the rushing stats look futile even though a defensive back had to be the "feature back" after injuries. That defensive back, Rod Stinson, went for over 100 yards against Tenn late in the season.

Unlike with our current situation, the team was flashing signs of being good next season, which they were.

The narrative was that Ford lost his players in theSouth Carolina game. Actual season results show that an extremely young team played very competitively against a tough schedule AFTER the SC debacle.

But Broyles history shows he didn't mix well with coaches that had a back bone.

The fans did not like Ford either, yet again his style was proclaimed as being boring. Ford knew where he had to be strong, and his last 2 recruiting classes were very good on both the Ol dl and at Lb.  He took a team full of fr and sophs to Tuscaloosa and won against a ranked Bama team. And, in the last game of 97 we saw the coming out party of Clint, Eubanks and Lucas when on back to back offensive plays Clint hit each for 80 yard td passes, iirc. HDN, as many new coaches do, reaped the rewards of the hard work the previous guy put in.   

[BassinHawg]

Bret Bielema. About to win 7 of 9 and get decent bowl bid.

WUT! LOL!

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

Head coaches at Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC:

1. Jackson Crowe - head coach from 1990 thru 1st game of 1992
2. Joesph Kines - head coach 1992 for all but 1 game
3. Daniel Ford - head coach from 1993 through 1997
4. Houston Dale Nutt - head coach from 1998 through 2007
5. Robert Petrino - head coach from 2008 through 2011
6. John Lesley Smith - head coach 2012
7. Bret Bielema - head coach 2013 to present

That's some tough sledding.  Arkansas's "ceiling" will continue to be defined by the Houston Nutt era. He was the only coach given an opportunity to 1) coach some real talent; 2) recruit his own guys; 3) build his program the way he wanted; and 4) establish a "legacy", so to speak.  That legacy is inconsistency.
   

My hope with CBB is (or... was) that he could grow this program into a consistent contender a la Frank Beamer, Bill Snyder, and Barry Alvarez.  I think this season still has some hope... and I like the roster next year.  Has CBB been given enough time?  How much "time" is required?  Has he been given a chance to break through some growing pains?  Can he win enough this year to satisfy enough people?     

[HognotinMemphis]

That's some tough sledding.  Arkansas's "ceiling" will continue to be defined by the Houston Nutt era. He was the only coach given an opportunity to 1) coach some real talent; 2) recruit his own guys; 3) build his program the way he wanted; and 4) establish a "legacy", so to speak.  That legacy is inconsistency.
   

My hope with CBB is (or... was) that he could grow this program into a consistent contender a la Frank Beamer, Bill Snyder, and Barry Alvarez.  I think this season still has some hope... and I like the roster next year.  Has CBB been given enough time?  How much "time" is required?  Has he been given a chance to break through some growing pains?  Can he win enough this year to satisfy enough people?     

No coach gets more than 4 or 5 years at $4 million per year salary. This will be his last at Arkansas if it's a repeat of last year or worse.

[rhames]

I would venture to say most coaches who are terminated for performance usually don't go on and continue coaching at the same level.

[DeltaBoy]

We are cursed 
We had the Bear lined up until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor
We could have had Jimmy Johnson but Frank passed for Hatfield
We had the S over vs Tenn and the Fish mess.
We had Zebras be so bad against us the SEC benched them and we did not have a Curls lead crew for a couple of years.
We had DB fall down , WR drop the ball , We had a great DB that dropped a INT that would lead to us beating the Canes.
and the Legend of Hog Heartbreaks continues.

[logic]

Yes Frank blew it when he would not hire Jimmy Johnson when Jimmy begged to come home.  He would have been our Bear Bryant.

That is probably the biggest mistake Frank ever made.

[bphi11ips]

WUT! LOL!

As far as you know...

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

No coach gets more than 4 or 5 years at $4 million per year salary. This will be his last at Arkansas if it's a repeat of last year or worse.

The salaries are beyond comparison to any other point in history.  But I tend to agree with you.

[rhames]

The shortcomings of the 2015 season are what will get Bret this year if no bowl game.


Toledo really was the death of his potential at arkansas


Win 10 games that season he would get 2018 without a doubt.

[hog.goblin]

Head coaches at Arkansas since Arkansas joined the SEC:

1. Jackson Crowe - head coach from 1990 thru 1st game of 1992
2. Joesph Kines - head coach 1992 for all but 1 game
3. Daniel Ford - head coach from 1993 through 1997
4. Houston Dale Nutt - head coach from 1998 through 2007
5. Robert Petrino - head coach from 2008 through 2011
6. John Lesley Smith - head coach 2012
7. Bret Bielema - head coach 2013 to present

After they were done at Arkansas:

1. 3 years at Baylor as OC then out of college football for 5 years. Then HC at J'ville State from 2000 to 2012. Out of college football since 2012.

2. Career assistant through 2009. Out of college football since.

3. Out of college football since.

4. 4 seasons as head coach at Ole Miss. Out of college football since last season at Ole Miss. While at Ole Miss, his SEC record:
Year 1: 5-3
Year 2: 4-4
Year 3: 1-7
Year 4: 0-8
Also was the genesis of the "Houston Nutt Rule", created by the SEC and enforced beginning with the 2010 season.

5. Out of college football for 1 year, then head coach at W. KY for 1 year, 2013. Head coach for 2nd time at Louisville since 2014.

6. 3 years, 2013-2015, as head coach at Fort Lewis, a Div II program, then Head Coach at KY State since 2016, also a Div II program.

7.  TBD

The evidence in your post seems to contradict the title's suggestion.  Kines and Ford are the only ones not have significant subsequent head coaching work.  Kines was just interim.  Ford was far older than his years and basically retired.

[Hoggish1]

Absolutely absurd post.  But par for course...

[HognotinMemphis]

The salaries are beyond comparison to any other point in history.  But I tend to agree with you.

You agree with me not because you are weak, but because you know I am right. Thanks.

[HognotinMemphis]

The evidence in your post seems to contradict the title's suggestion.  Kines and Ford are the only ones not have significant subsequent head coaching work.  Kines was just interim.  Ford was far older than his years and basically retired.

Interesting how some minds work. I could tell you it's been sunny for the past 7 days and as evidence, show you the amount of sunshine in a specific area for the past 7 days, and you would see it differently regardless.

To tell me that the title counters the content shows me you do not understand it.

So you think Crowe and Nutt went on to largely successful careers at similar level programs as Arkansas after their stints at Arkansas?

You made an excuse for Ford, implying he was older and resigned mentally to retiring. You make a very subjective judgment that Ford was "older than his years". Wow. Reality was, he was 49 yrs old in 1997.

What about Nutt? 4 years of declining performance at Ole Miss and since 2011, persona non grata in college football.

What about Smith? Coaching at Div II programs since.

As for Bielema, he's peter-principled himself at Arkansas. Alvarez said so in an indirect manner yesterday. I believe we will see the evidence of that when he takes another job next year.

[hog.goblin]

Interesting how some minds work. I could tell you it's been sunny for the past 7 days and as evidence, show you the amount of sunshine in a specific area for the past 7 days, and you would see it differently regardless.

To tell me that the title counters the content shows me you do not understand it.

So you think Crowe and Nutt went on to largely successful careers at similar level programs as Arkansas after their stints at Arkansas?

You made an excuse for Ford, implying he was older and resigned mentally to retiring. You make a very subjective judgment that Ford was "older than his years". Wow. Reality was, he was 49 yrs old in 1997.

What about Nutt? 4 years of declining performance at Ole Miss and since 2011, persona non grata in college football.

What about Smith? Coaching at Div II programs since.

As for Bielema, he's peter-principled himself at Arkansas. Alvarez said so in an indirect manner yesterday. I believe we will see the evidence of that when he takes another job next year.

You could tell me it's sunny, but maybe you are just being like Sunshine Rick and pumping something that's not there.

Crowe was never a D1 coach.  He didn't have a head coaching career to kill since he wasn't qualified to be the HBC of the hogs.  He was headed to Clemson and Broyles pulled him of the plane.  That was the first clue Broyles was about done.  But he parlayed that SWC failure into a very successful head coaching career for 13 seasons with 4 conference titles.  Sure, he coached in D2, but that's where he always belonged.  There was no D1 career to kill.

Houston didn't fail when he left Arkansas.  He took a program that just went 0 - 8 in SEC play and 3 - 21 in 3 seasons, and turned it into 9 - 7 in SEC play and won back to back 9 win games and those 2 Cotton Bowls.  FIFY.  They were thrilled and his career was at a pinnacle.  That's the best 2 seasons Nutt ever had.  How could you call that declining performance?  Then in year 3 it went into a tailspin at his own hands and that's on him and Ole Miss, not Arkansas.

Ford is your best example.  His career died at Arkansas.  Really because at the hands of Nutt who took the same team he couldn't win with an rattled off 8 straight wins.  I still can't believe how young he was.  I remember talking to him at K-Mart in 1995 before the SEC CG and he seemed like he was 60+.

Smith?  His career died on died on the sideline at Michigan St.  Jeff Long naming him a one-year interim didn't resurrect it.  He hadn't been a HBC for 6 years when Long made that mistake.

So one coach in 25 years has his career killed at the U of A and you propose that we are now Head Coach Career Killer U?

Bielema is certainly trying to make it two.

By the way, LSU may have back-to-back career killings with Miles and Ed O.
Ole Miss with 3 in a row with Ed O (whose HBC career should have remained dead), Nutt, and Freeze.