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Chavis runs the 4-3...so

Started by theFlyingHog, January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm

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theFlyingHog

How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

IronHog

Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

 

theFlyingHog

Quote from: IronHog on January 09, 2018, 03:01:30 pm
7 year rebuild
We gave bert five so it's only fair to hold Chavis and CCM to five.

Hopeful Hog

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

We shouldn't be set back at all imo. We didn't run the 3-4 long enough to have those specific kind of players so it was more of us forcing a square 4-3 peg into a round 3-4 hole. It should be a pretty seamless transition back to the 4-3.

BroyledNutts

Should be minimal. The roster should've expected a new approach or scheme, simply due to a new staff taking over. The upperclassmen on the team has experience with the 4-3, so a transition back to it shouldn't bring too much confusion - only new approaches, terminology, or techniques as per the new staff.

On a separate note, I don't understand the pain and suffering switching defensive or offensive schemes - maybe it's because I never played - I would think that D1 level players would have experience in multiple schemes and sets, have an acumen for the terminology and technique, and be able to transition from one to another with only minimal time spent learning new terms for old skills or formations. Football IQ, if you will.

liljo

Hogville: A place where Hog fans gather to discuss all things Razorbacks in peace.

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?
Just one more generation of fans, so about 20 or so years
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Grizzlyfan

I would guess the 3-4 experiment was going to end even if Bielema had been retained.

LZH

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 03:03:17 pm
We gave bert five so it's only fair to hold Chavis and CCM to five.

No, two years....two. Seven minus five equals two!

(notOM)Rebel123

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

It didn't appear that we even ran it last year. Shouldn't be hard to go from
"Herding cats" to a 4-3.
"Knowledge is Good"....Emil Faber

jimmur74


I hope this is a joke

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

AHiD

Morris said he wants to run a base 3-4, so who knows?
My name...is Jerruh

IronHog

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 03:03:17 pm
We gave bert five so it's only fair to hold Chavis and CCM to five.


Think Chavis will last that long?
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

 

jackflash

my question would be can we recruit enough defensive  for this to  work a 4-3

The Kig

Quote from: BroyledNutts on January 09, 2018, 03:09:03 pm
On a separate note, I don't understand the pain and suffering switching defensive or offensive schemes - maybe it's because I never played - I would think that D1 level players would have experience in multiple schemes and sets, have an acumen for the terminology and technique, and be able to transition from one to another with only minimal time spent learning new terms for old skills or formations. Football IQ, if you will.


Yes and No.

Even if the play is exactly the same, it can take some time to "translate" terminology changes.  Think of it as learning a new language...maybe one that is similar like one of the Latin based where it sounds familiar, but the brain still has to interpret.

The bigger issue when you change schemes for defense comes down to reaction.  If they have to think through assignment and reads, they may already be out of place and beaten on a given play.  You want defenders to attack and not have to think.  This doesn't mean they aren't smart and don't understand the play... quite the contrary.  It means that they instinctively know where to go and can get there in a bad mood. 



Poker Porker

Hopeful Hog

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on January 09, 2018, 03:27:25 pm
Morris said he wants to run a base 3-4, so who knows?

Really? I missed that. Well that doesn't jive with the defensive staff being confirmed/rumored.

BroyledNutts

Quote from: The Kig on January 09, 2018, 03:29:16 pm

Yes and No.

Even if the play is exactly the same, it can take some time to "translate" terminology changes.  Think of it as learning a new language...maybe one that is similar like one of the Latin based where it sounds familiar, but the brain still has to interpret.

The bigger issue when you change schemes for defense comes down to reaction.  If they have to think through assignment and reads, they may already be out of place and beaten on a given play.  You want defenders to attack and not have to think.  This doesn't mean they aren't smart and don't understand the play... quite the contrary.  It means that they instinctively know where to go and can get there in a bad mood. 





Thanks for the insight ...

oldman1015

Quote from: (notOM)Rebel123 on January 09, 2018, 03:21:03 pm
It didn’t appear that we even ran it last year. Shouldn’t be hard to go from
“Herding cats” to a 4-3.
Post of the day.
Arkansas, the left lane state.

AHiD

Quote from: Hopeful Hog on January 09, 2018, 03:30:56 pm
Really? I missed that. Well that doesn't jive with the defensive staff being confirmed/rumored.

Exactly
My name...is Jerruh

Al Boarland

Will be more of a jimmies and joes problem than scheme.  Not a ton of talent on the team.  4-3 is going to require 6-8 DL you can rotate without much drop off. 

tbhogfan

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?
Since the vast majority of our athletes were recruited to a 4-3 system, probably not much at all.  It all comes down to effort and execution, regardless of which scheme you run.  I'm looking for both to improve greatly under Chavis.
Go Hogs!

hogcards

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

I'm guessing the bidding here starts at 3 years and once that timeline isn't met, it moves to 4...5...6...

You know, the building of your own foundation and whatnot...
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

PorkSoda

the real question will be what will they do with their degree in hoganese?
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Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

woodrow hog call

If he still runs a 4-3 40, he is in pretty good shape for a dude his age, lead by example.


sarc/jk
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"

 

Hoggish1

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

None.  We are built for the 4-3 and only got out of it last year.  Looking forward to Agim getting on the edge where he belongs...

hogcards

Quote from: woodrow hog call on January 09, 2018, 04:05:34 pm
If he still runs a 4-3 40, he is in pretty good shape for a dude his age, lead by example.


sarc/jk

He has velcro shoes.  It allows for easy on, easy off and he doesn't strain his forehead bending over to tie them.

"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

livevanguy

Quote from: PorkSoda on January 09, 2018, 03:55:13 pm
the real question will be what will they do with their degree in hoganese?
perhaps working a job at a BBQ pit?
Call'n the hogs from the Pacific Northwest

steveaustin69

Quote from: BroyledNutts on January 09, 2018, 03:09:03 pm
Should be minimal. The roster should've expected a new approach or scheme, simply due to a new staff taking over. The upperclassmen on the team has experience with the 4-3, so a transition back to it shouldn't bring too much confusion - only new approaches, terminology, or techniques as per the new staff.

On a separate note, I don't understand the pain and suffering switching defensive or offensive schemes - maybe it's because I never played - I would think that D1 level players would have experience in multiple schemes and sets, have an acumen for the terminology and technique, and be able to transition from one to another with only minimal time spent learning new terms for old skills or formations. Football IQ, if you will.

I don't think it's necessarily the players adapting to the scheme IQ wise as it is not having the right type of athlete for a specific scheme. 

hawginbigd1

Quote from: Hoggish1 on January 09, 2018, 04:08:10 pm
None.  We are built for the 4-3 and only got out of it last year.  Looking forward to Agim getting on the edge where he belongs...
My opinion is we don't have the DL depth to run a 4-3 base defense, we didn't have enough to run the 3-4 this year. So many plays we gave up because of tired DL IMO.

LZH

Quote from: hogcards on January 09, 2018, 04:21:49 pm
He has velcro shoes.  It allows for easy on, easy off and he doesn't strain his forehead bending over to tie them.



Hey! Those things are damn comfortable!   >:(

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

I believe we are helped by it in LB depth and with the guys signed so far, and those being recruited, I believe we will even improve on the DL...
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quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
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PonderinHog

Quote from: LZH on January 09, 2018, 03:18:50 pm
No, two years....two. Seven minus five equals two!
Give LZH another chaaaaaaance!

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Al Boarland on January 09, 2018, 03:41:32 pm
Will be more of a jimmies and joes problem than scheme.  Not a ton of talent on the team.  4-3 is going to require 6-8 DL you can rotate without much drop off.

Too many times I have seen the player at the ball and fail to execute proper tackling technique. For several DCs I blamed them. But last year I had to start blaming the players. Ash, Smith, and Rhodes all had good defences at other schools.

And it didn't matter who the DC was the same problems occurred. So was it the coaches, SCT, players, or a combination? Herb was the only consistent denominator. It left me scratching my head.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

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RaisinHog

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on January 09, 2018, 04:31:13 pm
My opinion is we don't have the DL depth to run a 4-3 base defense, we didn't have enough to run the 3-4 this year. So many plays we gave up because of tired DL IMO.

The 4 3 acctually requires less big d linemen in my opinion .. we will never get a nose guard that demands a double team so I'm for going back to the 4-3 you can put a taller leaner kid at the weak side d end

hoglady

Quote from: (notOM)Rebel123 on January 09, 2018, 03:21:03 pm
It didn’t appear that we even ran it last year. Shouldn’t be hard to go from
“Herding cats” to a 4-3.

Great post.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

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AirWarren

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?

We were horrid at 4-3. We were horrid at 3-4.


Don't expect much setback. Lord, hope it's up from here.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Hopeful Hog on January 09, 2018, 03:06:30 pm
We shouldn't be set back at all imo. We didn't run the 3-4 long enough to have those specific kind of players so it was more of us forcing a square 4-3 peg into a round 3-4 hole. It should be a pretty seamless transition back to the 4-3.
Bingo. It's not as if we have a huge number of kids who were recruited to play the 3-4 exclusively. Last season being the only time we run this particular scheme within recent memory most of our players should have minimal adjustments issues. Besides, part of this reestablishment process will be on the coaches to ensure the kids get the formation(s) down properly.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on January 09, 2018, 04:31:13 pm
My opinion is we don't have the DL depth to run a 4-3 base defense, we didn't have enough to run the 3-4 this year. So many plays we gave up because of tired DL IMO.
Well some of that could also be attributed to one other key issue: lack of proper conditioning.

hogcards

"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

LZH


hogcards

"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

hogcards

It's mandatory that you eat oatmeal while wearing those shoes.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

MissippHog

Quote from: theFlyingHog on January 09, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
How much are we set back by the 3-4 experiment?
Set back?  Ha ha ha hahaha. 

younghog

These kids are football players.. So I assume their position coaches will get whatever scheme we get in a base form settled all during spring practice.. There will be some transition in terminology as well as positional duties but nothing grave as in 1 year etc to learn a system..

If they can't adapt and grow they shouldn't even be at a D1 playing level..

GO HOGS
GO HOGS

hawginbigd1

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on January 09, 2018, 04:55:14 pm
Well some of that could also be attributed to one other key issue: lack of proper conditioning.
Hard to measure, but definitely could be some meat on that bone, I just think 40-50 plays is all you can hope to expect from DL, and offenses are running 70-90 in many cases. That means you need to have 7-8 ready to play at a high level. Can Bell, Taylor, and ? Put their hand on the ground and do this play after play?

The_Bionic_Pig

You guy's are thinking about the wrong things.... The 3-4 set was supposed to plug gaps in the running game and allow for more Safety blitzes.

Chavis philosophy is what's different in that it's much more aggressive than reactive.  We will get burned quite a bit in season one at the same time a player (reflective of his tenure at A&M/LSU/TN) will come close to double digits in QB sacks.

Basically on 3rd down situations we will bring the house and live with the consequences.

█ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▃ ▂ ▁ *Mute*

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: woodrow hog call on January 09, 2018, 04:05:34 pm
If he still runs a 4-3 40, he is in pretty good shape for a dude his age, lead by example.


sarc/jk

Maybe it's a 4 -3 40 feet............................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

onebadrubi

We ran a BS version of a 4-3.  Ramsey should have been a backer in coverage not rushing the passer.  He was gobbled up by olines most of his time rushing and was just basically useless but the coaches design.  He is the perfect can do everything LB'er and Bielema and Co failed him miserably. 

Al Boarland

Quote from: The_Bionic_Pig on January 09, 2018, 06:21:26 pm
You guy's are thinking about the wrong things.... The 3-4 set was supposed to plug gaps in the running game and allow for more Safety blitzes.

Chavis philosophy is what's different in that it's much more aggressive than reactive.  We will get burned quite a bit in season one at the same time a player (reflective of his tenure at A&M/LSU/TN) will come close to double digits in QB sacks.

Basically on 3rd down situations we will bring the house and live with the consequences.

This looks like a copy and paste from the CPR promotion era.

EulessHog

Quote from: LZH on January 09, 2018, 05:02:01 pm
Yep, and for good reason.

Practical as well.  The flaps are detachable.  Commonly used as TP on the go.
Go Hogs Go!