Dr. Stephen Heim starter on 78 offensive line...

[Bacons Rebellion]

Cool. CBB will be gone at the end of the year so it really don't matter.

Yes. All the complaining is really just chest beating now. The job prospect threads are relevant.

[The_Iceman]

Great Call!

[Tusks]

I wonder if JL think BB is easy to manage now?

[SquidBilly]

Because 6 or 7 of the ones consistently out recruiting the Hogs are all in the division, so when you lose to 4 or 5 of them a year it takes you down past 8th in the sec.

We should be able to expect to be competitive with everyone on a yearly basis other than maybe Alabama and even them we should be able to give a run every few years.  We aren't fielding a bunch of scrubs no one else wanted.  What it will take though is a coaching staff that is willing to put in the time to put in a gameplan on a week to week basis designed to beat that weeks opponent, rather than trying to outphysical or out talent teams week to week.  The Toledo game showed me something troubling back then about CBB.  We were by far the more talented team but when our scheme didn't work against them our coaches had no answer to how to change things up to utilize our talent to beat them. 

[snoblind]

I just listened to it again and caught something I didn't catch the first time.  You can tell that he is pretty much seething and just keeping it nice because he is on the radio.

I known Steve since I was 13 or 14, so going on 45 years.  I've had the pleasure of working on a few real estate deals with him.  He's not a happy camper.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Assuming we can't recruit with the elite then we damn sure should be teaching the proper technique for our self preservation.  I thought teaching proper technique was football 101at this level but apparently not for this O-line coach.

Exactly why who ever has the job has to work twice (or more times) as hard as pretty much any of the rest of the SEC coaches. While he's most certainly NOT going to out work Saban, and I seriously doubt anyone will, he could at least TRY to at least give the impression he is. Heck, at this point it appears he doesn't even really watch film, despite claims to the contrary.

[Youngsta71701]

I have never said that, matter of fact I have said just the opposite. The program will continue to be, on average, a 7-8 win a year program. They will have years that are better, Holtz, Hatfield, HDN, BP all had those, but they all also had worse years. I do not think BB will ever have a 9 or 10 win year because I think this is his last season.

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite?Conference=SEC

You are right about the team talent but I don't think it's horrible or as horrible as some make it out to be. We are not too many points behind the top schools. According to this the only team in the West we should beat is Mississippi State. But it has been proven that it can be done. Just have to have the perfect coach with the perfect scheme on offense, defense and special teams to win at a school like Arkansas. We don't have enough talent on this team to win football games being vanilla. We have to be creative and aggressive in all phases of the game if we want to be good or at least competitive in most games.

In other words if we already don't have the most talented players there is no way we can win football games being vanilla. We have to be aggressive and scheme up some things to overcome the current talent gap that we experience.

[jst01]

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite?Conference=SEC

You are right about the team talent but I don't think it's horrible or as horrible as some make it out to be. We are not too many points behind the top schools. According to this the only team in the West we should beat is Mississippi State. But it has been proven that it can be done. Just have to have the perfect coach with the perfect scheme on offense, defense and special teams to win at a school like Arkansas. We don't have enough talent on this team to win football games being vanilla. We have to be creative and aggressive in all phases of the game if we want to be good or at least competitive in most games.

Yes. Nobody things we will out recruit Bama, LSU or GA. But we can get a coach to recruit a top 6 SEC class. If that puts us at 6th in the conference (if you go by hogsanitys thoughts) then a new coach will need to be unique and run a specialized system to gain an advantage over teams 1-5. And in some years with the right key players and coaching (doing more with less, developing) that top 6 class in the SEC can finish in the top 2 with 10-11 wins. That is doable.

[IronHog]

This guy is fricking our guys up so bad that the new coach is going to have to go "The Junction Boys" on this team to weed them out.  They have been coddled them to the point that they are soft as baby poop.  When a real coach comes in and tries to demand perfection he is going to face a rebellion.

Nah.

All new coach has to do is play the best players.

[razorbackfaninar]

I haven't seen or heard anyone make this assertion, not even in the slightest.

I think we can all agree that the talent we have on the roster right now is not 32 points worse than Bama, or Auburn.

This team is poorly coached and managed. There's enough talent to win 7-8 games...which according to YOU is all we should ever expect, right?

And BTW, the buyout is not an issue, so you can get rid of that crutch.

I agree 100% that while our talent is not at the level of Bama, it is better than what you are seeing on the field. There is talent up and down this roster, and it is being mis-managed. When people say we don't look like an SEC team, it's because the players are being poorly coached.  There is enough talent on this team today to win 8-9 games, maybe not to win the SEC, but to be respectable. 

[theFlyingHog]

Eckwood was never as dominate as he was before the Knee Injury.

Don't you start this ish again or I'll ban you back to the stone age

[hogsanity]

  He's not a happy camper.

My dealings with him would indicate that is true with everything in his life.

[Tusks]

I think the talent is decent, like .500 in the SEC decent. 

Explain how Gratham can show up at MSU and completely turn around a defense in one season.  It's not like MSU has 5* talent.  They just evaluate better and then Gratham knows defense better than mr. ISU.

[hogman64]

And those classes were still only 8th-10th in the SEC. 8-10 SEC teams CONSISTENTLY recruit better players that the Hogs do year after year after year.

if you are 8 to 10 and top 30 in the country you are close enough that if you have great coaching, recruit to your needs and keep the players you recruit you can  compete very well.  based on our recruiting classes we should be doing much better....you have Alabama and maybe a couple of other SEC classes that will be elite each year, there isn't that much difference in  the fifth ranked class and the 8th or 9th ranked class....the heart and fight the coaching staff instills in the players is a bigger deal than if you are 15th nationally or 25th nationally.. that is where we are lacking.

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

if you are 8 to 10 and top 30 in the country you are close enough that if you have great coaching, recruit to your needs and keep the players you recruit you can  compete very well.  based on our recruiting classes we should be doing much better....you have Alabama and maybe a couple of other SEC classes that will be elite each year, there isn't that much difference in  the fifth ranked class and the 8th or 9th ranked class....the heart and fight the coaching staff instills in the players is a bigger deal than if you are 15th nationally or 25th nationally.. that is where we are lacking.

I don't even think it's a "heart" issue.  If you average 25th in recruiting and plays teams that average "12" in recruiting, it's more about depth and program consistency. 

Brett came in here saying "never flinch".  What does he do?  He freaking flinches.  Brings in Enos and changes the O-line recruiting philosophy.  Misses big on a couple OL classes.  He switches to the 3/4 D after under-recruiting LBs for a couple years.  Flinch, flinch. 

[WooPigFarm]

From my experiences with Dr. Heim, he is very intelligent and quiet...

he must of really thought about what he was going to say, must of been really bothering him

[hogsanity]

From my experiences with Dr. Heim, he is very intelligent and quiet...

he must of really thought about what he was going to say, must of been really bothering him

not my experience with him at all - the quiet part, he is very intelligent.

[PygmalionEffect2]

I do not disagree with that, but the fact remains that 8 or so teams in the league get better players every year, so why is anyone shocked that at least that many teams have better teams every year?

Because Arkansas has a rich tradition of beating teams with more heralded players.

We have traditionally been the less physically talented team that beat Goliath because we out-worked him, out-smarted him, and out-coached him.

Coach Broyles gave us a competitive advantage in coaching with most of the teams we faced due to himself and the staffs he was able to assemble.  There is an assistant coach trophy named for him because of this.

Lou Holtz gave us a coaching advantage. 

B. Petrino gave us a coaching advantage.

It could be argued that Coach Hatfield did as well in terms of discipline, toughness, fundamentals, and effort, if not so much in strategy and game management.


Arkansas has to consistently have the advantage in coaching in order to be successful as a program.

[HognotinMemphis]

no one had tattoos and long hair coming out of their helmet back in his day. He's an old, former football player. Heim does not know jack about modern day football. The fact that he was an O linemen back in late 70's when linemen weighed 220 lbs means he can't talk about lineman technique and play today.

[hogsanity]

Because Arkansas has a rich tradition of beating teams with more heralded players.

We have traditionally been the less physically talented team that beat Goliath because we out-worked him, out-smarted him, and out-coached him.

Coach Broyles gave us a competitive advantage in coaching with most of the teams we faced due to himself and the staffs he was able to assemble.  There is an assistant coach trophy named for him because of this.

Lou Holtz gave us a coaching advantage. 

B. Petrino gave us a coaching advantage.

It could be argued that Coach Hatfield did as well in terms of discipline, toughness, fundamentals, and effort, if not so much in strategy and game management.


Arkansas has to consistently have the advantage in coaching in order to be successful as a program.

How often did they actually beat goliath? Or, how often did they beat goliath then turn around a lose to someone they were as talented as thus ruining the season anyway? I can think of lots of "almost" seasons, but in my 48 seasons they have never avoided a big loss. 79 is most vivid in my mind. BEat TExas and come home to play Houston and lose 13-10. Yes Houston was good that year, very good, but just another example of not being able to beat who they have to beat to reach the top.   88 89 98 06 10 11 all come to mind as well.

[Hogdomer]

I haven't seen or heard anyone make this assertion, not even in the slightest.

I think we can all agree that the talent we have on the roster right now is not 32 points worse than Bama, or Auburn.

This team is poorly coached and managed. There's enough talent to win 7-8 games...which according to YOU is all we should ever expect, right?

And BTW, the buyout is not an issue, so you can get rid of that crutch.

Correct, no one makes that argument but that won't stop him from burning that strawman.

[theFlyingHog]

no one had tattoos and long hair coming out of their helmet back in his day. He's an old, former football player. Heim does not know jack about modern day football. The fact that he was an O linemen back in late 70's when linemen weighed 220 lbs means he can't talk about lineman technique and play today.

Is your life so sad that you have to come around here with your lame trolling all the time? Go get another bag of cheetos and put on some gay porn and leave us alone

[snoblind]

My dealings with him would indicate that is true with everything in his life.

Harp fixed my leg.  So that is who I have dealt with recently.

[snoblind]

no one had tattoos and long hair coming out of their helmet back in his day. He's an old, former football player. Heim does not know jack about modern day football. The fact that he was an O linemen back in late 70's when linemen weighed 220 lbs means he can't talk about lineman technique and play today.

Your trolling might work better if you remembered that the 220 pound lineman were 15-20 years earlier.  I'm gonna guess that Heim has probably forgotten more about football that you have ever known.

You still welching on bets? 

[hawgon]

So, I am told that one of the guys on that team walked up to Bielema and expressed to him exactly what he thought of his coaching abilities this weekend. 

[hogsanity]

So, I am told that one of the guys on that team walked up to Bielema and expressed to him exactly what he thought of his coaching abilities this weekend. 

Yea, that's helpful, nothing like a 60ish guy in town to relive his glory days telling off the current HC.

[HogDoc]

no one had tattoos and long hair coming out of their helmet back in his day. He's an old, former football player. Heim does not know jack about modern day football. The fact that he was an O linemen back in late 70's when linemen weighed 220 lbs means he can't talk about lineman technique and play today.

Speaking of modern play and technique, maybe/ maybe not ....but having played the position, gives him a lot more credence than the majority of HV...PLUS he isn't blind.... FYI, The good Dr.'s Playing weight was 305 lbs on a 6'5" frame, he was considered "very big" and "ahead of his time" as an O-lineman.

[Count Hogula]

Yea, that's helpful, nothing like a 60ish guy in town to relive his glory days telling off the current HC.

Sounds like someone who is passionate about Hog football to me. Told him straight in his face, too.

[hawgsalot]

And those classes were still only 8th-10th in the SEC. 8-10 SEC teams CONSISTENTLY recruit better players that the Hogs do year after year after year.

Unfortunately it's the best we've ever recruited while in the SEC.

[hogsanity]

Sounds like someone who is passionate about Hog football to me. Told him straight in his face, too.

well he has a knack for getting peoples faces, d1 football coaches, 14 yr olds making $7 a game umpiring youth league baseball on the field in front of a couple hundred people, just things normal people would do type stuff. 

[hogsanity]

Unfortunately it's the best we've ever recruited while in the SEC.

but it's not talent at all, just coaching and want to will fill the gap.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Yea, that's helpful, nothing like a 60ish guy in town to relive his glory days telling off the current HC.

So the question remains: you're saying that a player who hasn't played in forty years-not the 1960s-isn't qualified to comment on what he sees are glaring errors? A guy who played the area where so many of our problems this year have been noticeable pretty much from day one? So you're saying the fundamentals and techniques of blocking, tackling, kicking, etc. have changed so radically since the game was invented that this disqualifies him or otherwise makes him unfit to comment and offer observations about what he sees. How about any of the other players that were on that team that apparently share his viewpoints.

Apparently using your criteria some one who hasn't played football in the last five years (or would that be the past year) isn't qualified to make an informed observation or opinion. Well obviously that would exclude 99.9% of the fan base as well. Yep, none of us are in any way, shape, or form are allowed to offer and honest assessment on what we clearly see on the field. The again, none of us is blind either. None of us need to have coached or played a particular position to have enough intelligence to determine if a block has been missed, a tackle whiffed, or whatever else goes on. Nope sometimes it's clear as day and plain enough; then again for those who will not see, it's always the same.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Is your life so sad that you have to come around here with your lame trolling all the time? Go get another bag of cheetos and put on some gay porn and leave us alone

That's HIM's schtick. Thought you would have caught on by now. A crabby, grumping old fart who's only pleasure in life is apparently trying to unsuccessfully pull others down to his sad, miserable level.

[Vantage 8 dude]

but it's not talent at all, just coaching and want to will fill the gap.

All this time I've obviously given you far more credit than I should. You can't honestly be that damn dense. It not's one OR the other. It's a combination of generally inferior talent AND a lack of coaching and development. Is that finally clear enough even for you

[hogsanity]

So the question remains: you're saying that a player who hasn't played in forty years-not the 1960s-isn't qualified to comment on what he sees are glaring errors? A guy who played the area where so many of our problems this year have been noticeable pretty much from day one? So you're saying the fundamentals and techniques of blocking, tackling, kicking, etc. have changed so radically since the game was invented that this disqualifies him or otherwise makes him unfit to comment and offer observations about what he sees. How about any of the other players that were on that team that apparently share his viewpoints.

Apparently using your criteria some one who hasn't played football in the last five years (or would that be the past year) isn't qualified to make an informed observation or opinion. Well obviously that would exclude 99.9% of the fan base as well. Yep, none of us are in any way, shape, or form are allowed to offer and honest assessment on what we clearly see on the field. The again, none of us is blind either. None of us need to have coached or played a particular position to have enough intelligence to determine if a block has been missed, a tackle whiffed, or whatever else goes on. Nope sometimes it's clear as day and plain enough; then again for those who will not see, it's always the same.

I asked what good does it do. Anyone can offer their opinion, no matter how well or poorly informed it is.

All who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here, because without that the Hogs will be perpetual also rans, the only question will be how many other also rans can they beat.

[PLHawg]

I asked what good does it do. Anyone can offer their opinion, no matter how well or poorly informed it is.

All who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here, because without that the Hogs will be perpetual also rans, the only question will be how many other also rans can they beat.

Once they get so-called players may want to get someone that can coach them, unlike what we have right now.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I asked what good does it do. Anyone can offer their opinion, no matter how well or poorly informed it is.

All who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here, because without that the Hogs will be perpetual also rans, the only question will be how many other also rans can they beat.

And what exactly would you suggest Heim and others like him do to steer kids toward the program? Would you suggest they join the staff, or would prefer a more "indirect approach" similar to what apparently being going on at places like OM over the past several years. And if you mean financial support to the university are you in a position to know exactly what or how any of these former players might/might not be doing so already? So again, how exactly do you propose that any/all who are unhappy can more actively assist the process? And while we're at it I have to ask what have YOU been doing to address these same questions? I mean since you seem to so clearly see the fault in others.

One last thing: The more relevant and immediate question is with the hell are CBB and doing to improve the talent level? I mean if that's the ONE/ONLY reason we've had such struggles it seems that all they need to do is devote every $, every minute to getting the best kids in and then sit back and relax. Well it's obvious they haven't done a particularly good job of the former; however, they've apparently got the latter down to a "T".

[Vantage 8 dude]

I asked what good does it do. Anyone can offer their opinion, no matter how well or poorly informed it is.

All who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here, because without that the Hogs will be perpetual also rans, the only question will be how many other also rans can they beat.

Well what good is it doing blindly defending the current regime? Is THAT your answer "Cause that sure the heck isn't the answer. Same old ways of doing things, some old results. Why, what a shock that is.

[Grizzlyfan]

well he has a knack for getting peoples faces, d1 football coaches, 14 yr olds making $7 a game umpiring youth league baseball on the field in front of a couple hundred people, just things normal people would do type stuff.

He didn't say it was Heim that got in Bielema's face.  Maybe it was Dan Hampton.  How great would that be.

[drizzle]

well he has a knack for getting peoples faces, d1 football coaches, 14 yr olds making $7 a game umpiring youth league baseball on the field in front of a couple hundred people, just things normal people would do type stuff. 

Maybe you remember that sort of thing, but I also remember at least one time when Dr. Heim pointedly did not get in the face of such an umpire when I got hosed on a call.  At some point he explained to me why he didn't (I don't remember if he explained it between innings or after the game) and it both was logical and displayed understanding befitting someone trying to train boys both how to play baseball and in some measure how to become men.

Sometimes baseball calls for complaining to the umps, sometimes it doesn't.   I've seen both sides.  Several years later from the above story, on those very same fields, I was umpiring and ended up having the cops called on a coach that I had had to toss.   Dr. Heim may not have been perfect, especially in your eyes, but as a former (astonishingly mediocre) player for some of his baseball teams it's hard to have anything but respect for the man.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I remember one of the first practices we had under Dr. Heim, when the whole team was just miserable at throwing to the target, hitting cut-off men, etc.  Dr. Heim lined us up along a fence, each of us about 40 feet from our own fencepost. He gave each of us a pile of rocks, and we spent the next however long throwing at our posts until each of us could hit it consistently.  Fundamentals mattered before the advanced stuff.  I can't help but think that someone who understood that idea back then would have absolutely no difficulty understanding the issues our OL currently faces.

[3Scoreand10]

These kids may be more talented than they seem. 
The coaching is so bad, It is almost impossible to judge.

[elksnort]

Maybe Dr Heim would like to pony up the buyout AND come up with solutions to get better players.

Everyone seems to know the easy part, that is firing the coach, that is easy. The hard part is finding the right guy to take the job AND figuring out how to get better talent ( since the man talked about in the OP talked about how untalented the OL is ). Although many of you will argue with him on that because some here think the Hogs are as talented as Bama.

Dear goodness, you often have good points, but must be the contrarian with every point. Enough with the TALENT talk. Okay, everyone knows the talent level could be better. But with what they have, they are not getting all out of it. The coach freaking suck and he needs to go.

[Martygit]

Steve Heim is a great doctor and was a great football player on a great Arkansas football team with a great coach (Lou Holtz) - he called into that radio show this morning - significant - they didn't call him, he called them just like any caller from any place in Arkansas (or anywhere else), waited for his turn and then told whoever was listening what his perception of the problem is - he talked about how they were having a reunion of the '78 Orange Bowl team that he was a part of, and that they were watching the game - he conveyed some of the comments and attitudes...like, everyone was laughing at the Arkansas performance and the comments that the players didn't know what they were doing and were simply not very good, i.e., were not talented enough to play in the SEC - basically said that the consensus was that our players don't know how to play football at a SEC level - he put it on one of two things -(1) bad recruiting - that is, BB didn't recruit the players with enough talent or (2) the staff couldn't coach - either, in his opinion, is a coaching problem - he also talked about how BB wanted to be friends with the players and how that doesn't work - said that when he was a player he didn't want Lou Holtz to know his name - just wanted to do his job and stay under Holtz's radar -

What he said says a lot to me about what's wrong up there - and, the only way to fix it is to clean house and start over - it will be painful but how much more painful can it be than what it is now? - listen to those who know what they're talking about - not just would-be experts with a keyboard

Listen up Board of Trustees

[hog47]

I'm going out on a limb and say that if this team looses to Ole Miss, coach B will be replaced by end of season. At this point the team is so miss coached that it's hard to believe we can win more than one more time. This team is totally demoralized.

[Boardon Hamsay]

It's only year five.  The ole' technique is hard to teach and hard to grasp, but we're close!

You thinking we need to give him a 10-12 year extension cause these things take time?

[Vantage 8 dude]

I asked what good does it do. Anyone can offer their opinion, no matter how well or poorly informed it is.

All who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here, because without that the Hogs will be perpetual also rans, the only question will be how many other also rans can they beat.

I'm still waiting, and have been since about mid afternoon, for you to offer us your brain storm and fool proof method of getting more support-ie pulling better players here-that folks like Heim and other former players can specifically do. Also waiting to hear how YOU personally plan to do the same. I mean since you apparently have the simple solution that "all who claim to care so much for the program should be working night and day to figure out how to get better players here". And now that particular challenge has been issued I would ask: Isn't part of what we're paying the coaches very nice salaries/perks to do? I mean before you ask every one of us who have no real direct impact on the program to rally around and all.

[HogFoo]

I know the buyout is not an issue, and it never was, even if it had really been 15mil.

I said Sat night it is obvious BB is not a SEC coach, at least not in the sense of being able to challenge for or someday win even just the scw, BUT how anyone can look at the players and not see the vast talent difference between Ar and the upper level SEC teams is just mind boggling.

I think that most of the talent is there to be able to compete with most of the teams in the SEC as well as the rest of the country.  The coaching on the other hand is not!  Which it is especially notably notably missing at OLine coach!  Recruiting went down as soon as Pittman left, and whether people admit it or not, which there was a LOT who didn't want to admit it, OL coaching has spiraled down into the abyss since Pittman left as well.  Oh, when I made this argument before many jumped me saying that Anderson was better with technique, he was better coach, and I say, now, again, wth are those that defended this sorry SOS saying now?  Cuz our OLine is horrible!  We took a kid who probably would ha e been one helluva DT and tried to turn him into an OL. Experiment failed!  Should have left him at ST and just truly at least had 1 side of the line a formidable force!  See, that's where I think Bielema failed.  He should have followed the Petrino pattern!  He should have picked offense or Defense.  Petrino obviously picked offense.  Bielema could have did the same thing.  But instead he tried to bring the talent up on both offense and defense at the same time and it just takes wayyyy long to do that!  Bielema could have just rolled in OL after OLine,  and stocked up RBs, TEs, WRs, and then just did a Petrino, use most of the entire practice running offensive plays!  Over and over and over!  That's what Petrino did.  And it worked!  Bielema could have made our offense very very strong and very good then bring the talent up on the defense after 3yrs. Cuz the offense would have been really good at this point!  Or, he could have just focused on defense, recruited DL, multiple LBs, DBs, safeties, just loaded up on nothing but top defensive minded guys.  That's what Muschamp did at Florida and then again at s.carolina  and it's working! That's how you see immediate improvement like Petrino showed!  That's what would have worked.  Hell, he could have say chose defense filled it full and then also just recruited OL and RBs, and TEs, focused on defense and strictly power run.  Every game would have been low scoring, and we'd been in every game we played.  If almost guarantee it.  But we didn't.  This Bielema pattern just isn't working. 

As for the next coach, whoever it is, there is talent on this team, and I truly believe that when the new coach comes in, if he picks a side offense or defense and recruits to make that side the best at first, then work on the other side, I think the next coach could be winning by the 2nd year.  Maybe even the 1st year, cuz we aren't that far off talent Wise.  Just probably 1 or two recruiting classes away.  Just depends on the coach, the style, and getting them in here fast enough.  But, I think there will be plenty of interest for a new coach to take over for Bielema.   It will also depend on what other jobs are open.  I think Bitch jones will be fired.  I kind of think that Sumlin will quit aTm and take a different job especially with how bad their media spoke about him after they lost to ucla. 

Definitely don't see Bielema being here.  Just have to wait and see if Long is as well. 

[Youngsta71701]

You thinking we need to give him a 10-12 year extension cause these things take time?

Maybe a lifetime contract

[Youngsta71701]

It's only year five.  The ole' technique is hard to teach and hard to grasp, but we're close!

Bert? Is that you? "Enough with the trick plays Bert, run the dang ball" Mrs. Tuohy, the Blindside.

[Inhogswetrust]

He didn't say it was Heim that got in Bielema's face.  Maybe it was Dan Hampton.  How great would that be.

Dan has very little to do with the Hogs anymore.