Tennessee Plays Concussed Player

[Cotton]

Yikes, their dumpster fire makes me feel better about our grease fire.

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/tennessee-investigating-coaches-kept-player-concussion-game/

[Seebs]

I played a game in Jr. High that I do not recall after the first quarter. Watching film on it was surreal.  I guess this is bad.

[Atlhogfan1]

Butch going to lose any buyout he may would get.

[onebadrubi]

This has to be coming out to soften a buyout.

[King Kong]

I don't believe this. 3 years ago maybe.

Now the SEC employees independent people help monitor to make sure this crap doesn't happen

When SEC fans are done with a coach these weird rumors always come out

[rhames]

Clay Travis is a Tennessee fan who wants Butch fired. Would like to see the details from another source.

[Calling All Hogs]

So their travel squad doesn't include backups for each of their O-linesmen?

[The Hawg Marshal]

Wouldn't it be on the team Doctors and trainers to say whether he could keep playing?

[Pork Ranger]

It's football. You don't think Cole had some type of concussion after that goal line hit? Yeah right

[Atlhogfan1]

This has to be coming out to soften a buyout.

Yes.

[Dr. Sheldon Cooper]

Wouldn't it be on the team Doctors and trainers to say whether he could keep playing?

Exactly.
These decisions have been taken out of the coaches hands.  This is a decision that would have been made by the trainer or staff physician...

[sooiebaby]

It's football. You don't think Cole had some type of concussion after that goal line hit? Yeah right

This. That was a helmet to helmet train wreck at the goal line. No way both of those dudes weren't a little dazed and confused afterwards. I actually think for sure that Kelley was out cold for just a split second. PLAY ON!

[The_Iceman]

Tennessee hoping they can fire Butch with cause.

[Cotton]

Wouldn't it be on the team Doctors and trainers to say whether he could keep playing?

In theory, but if nobody tells the doctors or trainers (especially if a coach did indeed cover it up)...

[Cotton]

Clay Travis is a Tennessee fan who wants Butch fired. Would like to see the details from another source.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/11/01/tennessee-football-butch-jones-brett-kendrick-concussion-protocol

https://thereadoptional.com/source-butch-jones-tennessee-played-player-with-concussion-in-loss-to-kentucky-1497e5b70938

[sickboy]

It's football. You don't think Cole had some type of concussion after that goal line hit? Yeah right

There's a difference in a kid playing with a concussion and not telling anyone he got his bell rung, vs. doctors looking at a kid and saying he's concussed, having the kid throw up on the sideline and then putting the kid back in.

That's not football. That's negligent.

[Karma]

Did you see the Texas freshman QB throw the terrible interception to end the game against OK St. 2 weeks ago? The play before, he got hit in the head and he was wobbling. Stayed in and throw the pick. He didn't even travel the next week because of the concussion. I'm not saying that's the coaches fault because he never came out and the clock didn't stop, but it's scary that these guys are suffering head trauma and staying in the game.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

It's football. You don't think Cole had some type of concussion after that goal line hit? Yeah right

Shhh....!!!! 

[Karma]

It's football. You don't think Cole had some type of concussion after that goal line hit? Yeah right

If you read the article and think playing with the injury that kid has is just "football," then we shouldn't have the sport. Concussion is another term for brain injury. You shouldn't play with it, and the adults shouldn't have let him back on the field.

[davglo35]

Sgt. Carter may be not getting it done but I don't believe this at all. If the kid was concussed he probably didn't tell anybody. If it is true it bad...real bad.

[code red]

I don't believe this. 3 years ago maybe.

Now the SEC employees independent people help monitor to make sure this crap doesn't happen

When SEC fans are done with a coach these weird rumors always come out

Agreed.  Don't think this is true.

[Kneph13]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

[RME]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

Lol

[Cotton]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

So explain why CTE was found in 177 of 202 former players brains?

This is the kind of backwards thinking that is holding society back.  I'm sorry you miss the good old days, but we're trying to create a better world.

Jesus Christ.

[bennyl08]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

Looks like wearing a helmet while biking may have done you some good...

[BoogaHog]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

Sigh...we know much more concerning the impact of concussions in today's environment.  I understand.  I would have never taken myself out of a game unless they took me off.  But good grief, this is modern science and not up to politicized debate.  The situation is way past that.  For goodness sake, MMA has automatic suspensions after fights regardless of the outcome.  This is serious and those who minimize it have never been knocked out, or knocked out on multiple occasions, or maybe they have and that is our problem lol.  Sometimes you do not even know it when it happens.  Have you ever heard the expression "He was out on his feet"?

[Vantage 8 dude]

Yikes, their dumpster fire makes me feel better about our grease fire.

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/tennessee-investigating-coaches-kept-player-concussion-game/

Both his position coach, Wells, as well as the training staff are clearly at fault. While you would hope the player would self-report his condition, obviously not every kid is going to do that. However, for the position coach, who apparently had at least some indication the young man was having problems, not to even care enough to put the kid's safety first is virtually criminal. The coach ought to be out on his rear end before the end of the day of the game. No excuses!!

[Vantage 8 dude]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

Tell me you're not honestly that damn stupid! Obviously you've never bothered to read or even listen to any of the many studies and reports that are revealing more and more scientific evidence that concussions can cause serious and even irreparable brain/neurological damage.

Then again, apparently your playing without a helmet got you to where you are today. Figures......

[Paul]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

I hope to God you're just trolling us

[BoogaHog]

Both his position coach, Wells, as well as the training staff are clearly at fault. While you would hope the player would self-report his condition, obviously not every kid is going to do that. However, for the position coach, who apparently had at least some indication the young man was having problems, not to even care enough to put the kid's safety first is virtually criminal. The coach ought to be out on his rear end before the end of the day of the game. No excuses!!

Exactly!  kid's probably not going to complain.  Some of the football coaches in the game are igno rednecks who ask kids to do things they would never do.  It's infuriating.  The training staff knows exactly what the protocol is or should be.  They are there, along with Coach Roosterpoot to protect 18-22 year old kids.  Good grief a lot of them are child-like!  I know they are old enough to die for our country (I got one) nut jeez as his dad and I hope someone has my sons' backs!

Well said, Vantage.

[Hogwild]

Wouldn't it be on the team Doctors and trainers to say whether he could keep playing?

Exactly, the school hires professionals to evaluate injured players, coaches don't make that call.

[onebadrubi]

So explain why CTE was found in 177 of 202 former players brains?

This is the kind of backwards thinking that is holding society back.  I'm sorry you miss the good old days, but we're trying to create a better world.

Jesus Christ.

So you are saying all people who sign up for Football have CTE?  The bad thing about CTE is you can't prove that these people did not have it before they started playing.  While it seems that it might be obvious that the game caused it, the purpose certainly seems to be wanting to point the finger at the richest entity int eh room so to say, or I should ability to pay out the most money in a lawsuit.

[BoogaHog]

Exactly, the school hires professionals to evaluate injured players, coaches don't make that call.

You are correct to an extent.  Professionals evaluate and relay the info and clear.  However, if you are a coach and YOU KNOW something isn't right with an athletes condition, you as their position coach are primarily accountable and responsible.

[BoogaHog]

So you are saying all people who sign up for Football have CTE?  The bad thing about CTE is you can't prove that these people did not have it before they started playing.  While it seems that it might be obvious that the game caused it, the purpose certainly seems to be wanting to point the finger at the richest entity int eh room so to say, or I should ability to pay out the most money in a lawsuit.

At the pro level it is pervasive.  IMHO, if a person is being compensated to play, they know the risks and they should not sue (NFL idiots who do not take care of their finances and expect court awards).  I am pretty certain I have CTE being a former fighter/wrestler/NHB-MMA.  The MRI says "no immediate brain damage" but I know I have it.  My wife teases me about memory loss, etc.  Posthumously, they will confirm it.  I'm not stopping training though:)  That's on me though and know one is coercing me.  A bit different with 18-22 year old kids in college as well as some high school kids where Coach Peterball ignores the obvious injury to a kid.  Still p@sses me off just thinking about it!

[sowmonella]

I played a game in Jr. High that I do not recall after the first quarter. Watching film on it was surreal.  I guess this is bad.

That explains a lot. Thanks for sharing.

[younghog]

YAWN

[BearsBisonsBoars]

There's a difference in a kid playing with a concussion and not telling anyone he got his bell rung, vs. doctors looking at a kid and saying he's concussed, having the kid throw up on the sideline and then putting the kid back in.

That's not football. That's negligent.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

 I got this quote from the comments below the article. It makes sense, and maybe HDN and BB can pay us back via some sort of positive perception...

David Medearis · Abingdon, Virginia

Florida is shooting themselves in the foot by trumping up an excuse to get out of paying McElwain his buyout. We'd better not do the same thing, because if we do we will suffer the same fate the Gators are about to face. Namely, that no top tier coach in his right mind would go to a program whose buyouts aren't worth the paper they're written on.

The whole purpose of a buyout clause is that it tells the prospective coach, "Hey, we believe in you so much that we'll guarantee you this much money even if things go south." Now the prospective coaches for the Florida gig are going to say, "Sure, ...See More

...But on the other hand, How bad can it look on a school to protect a player.!?

[Karma]

YAWN

It's not your brain, why would you care what happens to it.

[gangstaback]

This. That was a helmet to helmet train wreck at the goal line. No way both of those dudes weren't a little dazed and confused afterwards. I actually think for sure that Kelley was out cold for just a split second. PLAY ON!

This is the truth. I would like to understand why a flag wasn't given on this play (penalty would have been declined) or at least a caution.

There's a difference in a kid playing with a concussion and not telling anyone he got his bell rung, vs. doctors looking at a kid and saying he's concussed, having the kid throw up on the sideline and then putting the kid back in.

That's not football. That's negligent.

Did you read the article? That's not what happened.

[Kneph13]

Tell me you're not honestly that damn stupid! Obviously you've never bothered to read or even listen to any of the many studies and reports that are revealing more and more scientific evidence that concussions can cause serious and even irreparable brain/neurological damage.

Then again, apparently your playing without a helmet got you to where you are today. Figures......

     I'm not stupid, and yes I've read and listened to the studies on concussions.  Football is a violent sport.  Concussion and Injuries will occur.  You know that before you play and it's YOUR decision to do it knowing that risk, unless the medical staff and coaches say No.   Play the damn game!  I'm not trolling either,  if you want soften college football, go play flag or touch football in a field near your house.

[SultanofSwine]

     I'm not stupid, and yes I've read and listened to the studies on concussions.  Football is a violent sport.  Concussion and Injuries will occur.  You know that before you play and it's YOUR decision to do it knowing that risk, unless the medical staff and coaches say No.   Play the damn game!  I'm not trolling either,  if you want soften college football, go play flag or touch football in a field near your house.

If you don't drive an antique ride that doesn't have air bags or seatbelts you should think about trading for a classic.

[bondhue]

Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

I try to ride daily, and I encourage my wife to also.  I went over the handlebars once this summer, fortunately in grass.   Riding a bike without a helmet is asking for serious trouble.   Just ask Jack McKinney.  His accident happened while I was doing grad work 45 miles away.   It changed his life and it changed Lakers' history.  Never ride a bike without a helmet.

[rwspear]

  It's [CENSORED] Football, those hits are gonna happen and slight concussions or larger are going to occur.  But it's on the team Dr. to decide if they should play or not.  Every one is so uptight about safety and softening the impact of playing football.  It's just like Political Correctness and the softening the impact of something through the use of language [George Carlin - in WW1 it was shell shock, in WW2 and Korea it was Battle Fatigue, Vietnam and Desert Storm it was Post Traumatic Stress Disorder].

  If the kid is dazed, pull him out for a few plays and let his head clear and put him back in.  If he gets his bell rung and/or KO'd, take his butt out of the game.  Hell, kids can't even ride bicycles anymore without protective gear or the PC starts screaming.  Darn happens, play the [CENSORED] game.

go back to bed bear bryant

[Kneph13]

If you don't drive an antique ride that doesn't have air bags or seatbelts you should think about trading for a classic.

     I would love a Classic: a 1969 Dodge Challenger or a 1970 Chevy Chevelle SS.  But I drive a Lexus IS F-Sport.  I think I am fine.

[Jimbob111]

So explain why CTE was found in 177 of 202 former players brains?

This is the kind of backwards thinking that is holding society back.  I'm sorry you miss the good old days, but we're trying to create a better world.

Jesus Christ.

I'm not CTE denier however many of those studies are flawed. How many people who operate a jackhammer also show signs of CTE? We don't know?  Why not? Because right now, football is the main "sport" being tested. I can't think of a single occupation where CTE related damage is being pushed like pro-football.
Do you honestly think gymnasts hit their heads less than football players? How many heavy equipment operators who's brain bounces around for 8 or more hours a day inside their skull show CTE signs? What about Rugby players?

Botton line is, the recent study that showed almost every single brain examined--all ex-football players--was highly flawed.

Follow my logic: If every football player's brain shows signs of CTE, then wouldn't many more ex-football players show symptoms of CTE than are reporting it?  But in this study, out of more than 100 brains, only 1 did not show signs of CTE. That's higher than 99%. But we don't see CTE symptoms in 99% of ex football players. We don't see CTE related illness in 50% do we? And yet, more than 99% of these ex-player's showed CTE damage?

Until we know how common CTE damage may be in all occupations, or how many NON-football players may or may not have a brain with indications of CTE, it's a little premature to take the recent study at face value. Yes, the brains showed signs of CTE. But even the organization that published the study said it asked more questions than it answered.

[presidenthog]

I'm not CTE denier however many of those studies are flawed. How many people who operate a jackhammer also show signs of CTE? We don't know?  Why not? Because right now, football is the main "sport" being tested. I can't think of a single occupation where CTE related damage is being pushed like pro-football.
Do you honestly think gymnasts hit their heads less than football players? How many heavy equipment operators who's brain bounces around for 8 or more hours a day inside their skull show CTE signs? What about Rugby players?

Botton line is, the recent study that showed almost every single brain examined--all ex-football players--was highly flawed.

Follow my logic: If every football player's brain shows signs of CTE, then wouldn't many more ex-football players show symptoms of CTE than are reporting it?  But in this study, out of more than 100 brains, only 1 did not show signs of CTE. That's higher than 99%. But we don't see CTE symptoms in 99% of ex football players. We don't see CTE related illness in 50% do we? And yet, more than 99% of these ex-player's showed CTE damage?

Until we know how common CTE damage may be in all occupations, or how many NON-football players may or may not have a brain with indications of CTE, it's a little premature to take the recent study at face value. Yes, the brains showed signs of CTE. But even the organization that published the study said it asked more questions than it answered.

Rugby has done a study and cte is also common. It is a problem to rugby just like it is for football. It is a violent game. Your reaction to this is just stupid. The kid didn't know who or where he was. He needed a level headed person to protect him from himself. The level headed people around him failed him, and possibly could have caused him much longer lasting damage.

I find it down right scary that he was urged to keep playing when they knew something was wrong. I'm not sure how you do not with the knowledge that we have now of how dangerous concussions are. Maybe you had a few too many and your cognitive ability has been damaged.

I know football is violent. There is a difference of playing through bangs and bruises, getting your bell rung, and having your brain bounce around in your skull and having possible life altering damage. The kid should have been protected. You have shown you would have sent him back out there to further ruin his future brain function for a game he isn't even being paid to play.

[bennyl08]

I can't think of a single occupation where CTE related damage is being pushed like pro-football.
Do you honestly think gymnasts hit their heads less than football players? How many heavy equipment operators who's brain bounces around for 8 or more hours a day inside their skull show CTE signs? What about Rugby players?

So, because you can't think of any, that means that no other occupation is looked at? Off the top of my head, military is another major occupation where this is being studied. Rugby is absolutely being studied as well.

As I'll discuss below, a major limitation right now is data availability. Somebody has to have their brain donated to be looked at. How many construction workers or their families are talking about doing that? Especially given that our knowledge of CTE is in it's infancy?

Botton line is, the recent study that showed almost every single brain examined--all ex-football players--was highly flawed.

Not really. There's a big difference between flawed research and a study that is very limited. A flawed study means they did something incorrectly that they could have done correctly. Maybe they did their statistical analysis using assumptions that aren't valid. Maybe they used their equipment incorrectly, etc... To my knowledge, the work that they did, they did correctly.

The issue as I briefly mentioned is one of data availability. There are inherent biases in the data they have which at the moment can't be avoided. The 9-5 office worker who didn't show any major symptoms isn't donating her brain to looked at for CTE. The researchers can't just go out there and be like "give me this random sampling of brains to analyze". Thus, the results of the study are very limited as well. Without a representative sample, you can't make any larger generalizations.

It's be like only being able to look at the lungs of coal miners who are coughing up blood. Odds are, you'll see a lot of damage from the dust they've inhaled. But, when the only lungs you get to look at have been coughing up blood, yeah, you're going to see damage, but that alone can't be used to say much about the dangers of coal mining. Until more people donate their brains, it's going to be hard to get around that limitation. 

Follow my logic: If every football player's brain shows signs of CTE, then wouldn't many more ex-football players show symptoms of CTE than are reporting it?  But in this study, out of more than 100 brains, only 1 did not show signs of CTE. That's higher than 99%. But we don't see CTE symptoms in 99% of ex football players. We don't see CTE related illness in 50% do we? And yet, more than 99% of these ex-player's showed CTE damage?

What do you think the symptoms are? There's different levels of CTE. Stage 1 CTE just has symptoms of headaches and some issues with attention and concentration. How many people know somebody who has a few more headaches as they get older than when they were younger? Not that uncommon. While CTE can cause that, so can 1000 other things and most people won't assume it's CTE, at least not yet. Stage II includes depression, shorter temper, and some short term memory impairment. Again, all of those can be pretty common in people as they age. Even stage III isn't that uncommon for people aging either. Cognitive impairment and difficulty with executive functions, particularly planning, organizing, and multi-tasking. Most people's brains slow down a bit as they age and for some, planning and organizing gets easier as you age, for others it isn't uncommon for that to become harder. Stage 4 is when you start to see full blown dementia that impacts your daily life.

Until we know how common CTE damage may be in all occupations, or how many NON-football players may or may not have a brain with indications of CTE, it's a little premature to take the recent study at face value. Yes, the brains showed signs of CTE. But even the organization that published the study said it asked more questions than it answered.

Disagree. I see no reason not to take the study at face value. The face value is that the study tells about what they found for the brains that they were given to look at and makes clear that given the limitations of the study, that the results don't have any broader implications. That is the face value of the study and nothing more.

Media and the public in general do not do very well at reporting on and getting what comes out of scientific reports. Which is a two way problem in that scientists often have difficulty communicating their research to the broader audience. On one hand, you have people that have spent decades going deeper and deeper into a specific rabbit hole such that even people in other branches of your field don't fully understand what you are doing. Then, you have media who want to make the research more exciting and will take what little they understand in the first place and then inflate the results to sell a more exciting story.

[smb]

No excuse if they knew?

[younghog]

It's not your brain, why would you care what happens to it.

NOT MY HOGS..

I care very little