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Unrealistic expectations and Injuries

Started by Piggfoot, November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm

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razorbackfaninar

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 14, 2017, 11:06:22 pm
Actually I did suggest a 3-9 season was a possibility several times and explained why.  I also said I could see us going 9-3.  There were two basic reasons.  First was that I have never seen a season where we had so many question marks going in.  Second was the way the schedule set up with three games that could go either way separated by two that were sure losses followed by 3 more that could go either way.  I said that if we lost the pivotal games at the beginning we might get to where we are today and that all bets would be off for the last two that looked very winnable during preseason because we may be a snowball rolling down a hill.  I didn't mention the toxicity of the fanbase, but that is part of the snowball.  Right now it is a really dirty snowball that isn't good for the program as a whole.  Recruits should see a fanbase supporting a team fighting for a bowl berth.

The stuff this fanbase did to get rid of Nutt was healthy.  Everyone knew it, including the players who weren't part of the posse.  This time we look like a bandwagon fanbase with no appreciation for the lives devoted to competing in the toughest division of football.  The fans don't deserve a winning team unless they show up and do their part.  Kirk Herbstreit mentioned Auburn's crowd tonight and its effect on the Georgia game and the likely effect it will have against Alabama.  Our players don't expect that Saturday, but they have a right to be disappointed with what they will see and hear Saturday.  The vast majority of them devote their lives for that moment to be the man in the arena and receive a college degree.  The least we can do is support them against SEC rivals at home.

I think that the issue is that the coaching staff has exhausted all of their good will and to a degree the players have as well.  For right or wrong the perception is that the coaches and some of the players have checked out. The bizarre losses that have accumulated over the course of Bielema's tenure have only served to further erode the fan's ability to hope that things re improving and I think what was initially one of his strengths, has become his downfall, and that is the attempt to remain positive at all costs. His inability to honestly face up to the issues the team is having has been abrasive to the fan base and they have lost faith in his ability to assess what is going on with his own team.

Piggfoot

I'm not saying Bielema should not be replaced. What I hate is this repeated Five year  or so cycle of replacing coaches. I believe we will only have a good team up to Hogville standards when Arkansas produces five to six NFL quality athletes in a year who want to be Razorbacks. With this nucleus others will want to join them. Believe it or not kids can recognize players and want to be with players.
No out of state players will want to come to Arkansas if they don't respect Arkansas players. We should all have learned that as kids when we chose up our to play against each other.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

 

kp72204

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on November 14, 2017, 10:17:14 pm
Let me DJ Screw it for you. Noooooboooodyyyy piccccckkkkeeeeddd uuuuuussss ttttoooooo winnnnnnn thissssss yearrrrrrr.
DJ screw reference. I love it. Year 5 should have been competitive regardless of injuries.

hog911

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on November 14, 2017, 08:31:40 pm
You can't pour syrup on sh*t and call it pancakes and you can't state facts to hog fans and expect a rational common sense response in return.
Have you ever had pancakes at the colonial pancakes and waffle house in Hot Springs? Seriously the best pancakes on the planet! As far as out team is concern we CAN, I repeat CAN have a consistent top 15 team year in and year out!

Al Boarland

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on November 14, 2017, 09:54:55 pm
You saying "blown games" proves my point. The games that we've lost no one  picked us to win. Why did you expect different? Did you think that Austin Allen was going to light it up with all new receivers? Was our new running backs going to rush for two thousand yards a piece? Was the 3-4 going to be the college version of the Bears 46 defense? Maybe Ragnow was going to block everybody himself because he's the best center in the country. There is nothing about this team that said "best in the SEC" because ALMOST every position was filled with new bodies.

Great points. The record against the talented teams is a reflection of recruiting near last in the SEC cycle after cycle. The record against somewhat similarly talented teams is due to injuries and them being tossup games. The SCar loss is the one head-scratcher game we get every year under CBB. We shouldn't have been dominated that game. Lose? Sure. Dominated? No.

Injuries to leaders on the team has an impact on the whole team's mentality. The snowball started building early and now it's as big as a house.

Hog-Corleone

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on November 14, 2017, 09:01:39 pm
Look, at the beginning of the season everybody said we would struggle (and that was before the injuries). Welp, low and behold they were right. The only people that are acting shocked and bewildered are hog fans.

I don't think anyone is shocked or bewildered.  It was expected by most rational fans, because it's what we have seen the previous 4 years.  I think most rational fans are tired of this and want a change so we can move on to better things. 
This is my word, and as such is beyond contestation.

smb

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm
I realize many Arkansas fans discredit the effects injuries have had on this team but to think they should not have mattered is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to think that we can recruit on an equal basis with the rest of the SEC teams. I believe we can recruit on an equal basis with all but A&M, Ala schools, Florida and Georgia. However if we lose key players to injuries we may not be able to compete with any team.

We've lost many players this season. K. Jackson Fr. was showing promise early on lost to knee injury. Team leaders RW III, Pulley, and Cornelius were lost early. Promising linebacker J Bell and A J Baptist were lost early.
Allen was lost on Oct 7 and Hayden and Ragnow on Oct 21.
We've lost six leaders out of nine players. A developing team can not loose this many players and be a winning team.
Now this is a Dilly! Dilly! post folks!
GeorgiaHOG

FANONTHEHILL

Remember, I'm the one who's always positive and looking for a way to defend the staff and the players.  There is no defense for the way the 2017 season has played out.  It doesn't matter who is hurt.  It doesn't matter how much better the other team is supposed to be.  The staffs job is to find something that will work and the players job is to give total effort to carry out that plan.  None of these things are happening.  The old adage "don't let go of the rope" does not apply this team. There is no rope.  There is a spiderweb, going off in every direction, being pulled apart.  When one string breaks, the whole thing collapses.  When one thing goes wrong on a Saturday, the whole thing collapses.  I put this on the staff, the players, and the entire culture of the program.  They have enough talent to be competitive.  But no one is on the same page. 

A few years ago, I was given a book about the history of Razorback Football.  The foreward of the book was written by Jim Lindsey.  He wrote that being a Razorback meant something.  Coach Broyles instilled something in the players that the current team lacks.  Lindsey said the when you put your hand in the ground and looked at the man across from you, odds are, "he was bigger than you, stronger than you, and better than you".  But there had to be something inside you that gave you the edge.  It's simply heart.  Accepting the underdog role and embracing it.  Overcoming adversity and fighting.  These things are lacking.  I find it so ironic that the year that Coach Broyles passes and the Broyles Complex is torn down, the fire that was the heart of Razorback Football seems to have gone out as well. 

So to reply to the original post.  The expectation is commitment to the program all day, every day.  Give everything you have.  Your best effort.  If you have 105 guys and a coaching staff doing that, the injuries won't mean as much. 
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

rude1

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on November 14, 2017, 10:17:14 pm
Let me DJ Screw it for you. Noooooboooodyyyy piccccckkkkeeeeddd uuuuuussss ttttoooooo winnnnnnn thissssss yearrrrrrr. 
I am still trying to figure out how this is important that nobody picked us to win, it just solidifies that everyone believed that BB in year five had assembled a roster that wasn't going to be able to compete, and you think this is ok because everyone knew this was a bad team?

birmingHAMette

Well said FOTH. The Hogs might get beat but I always expect them to play with pride and play with heart. We've got much more than just injuries wrong with this team.
Culture can be difficult to change but with the right leader it can be done. Hopefully that will be soon.
Go Hogs

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm
I realize many Arkansas fans discredit the effects injuries have had on this team but to think they should not have mattered is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to think that we can recruit on an equal basis with the rest of the SEC teams. I believe we can recruit on an equal basis with all but A&M, Ala schools, Florida and Georgia. However if we lose key players to injuries we may not be able to compete with any team.

We've lost many players this season. K. Jackson Fr. was showing promise early on lost to knee injury. Team leaders RW III, Pulley, and Cornelius were lost early. Promising linebacker J Bell and A J Baptist were lost early.
Allen was lost on Oct 7 and Hayden and Ragnow on Oct 21.
We've lost six leaders out of nine players. A developing team can not loose this many players and be a winning team.
Yeah, you're correct. Bielema going to be shown the door in 10 days mostly due to bad luck in year 5. Tough but no one said life is fair. You are entitled to nothing unless you are one of the 47% in this country who pay no fed income taxes.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
President Obama promised to begin to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal the planet. My promise is to help you and your family." - Mitt Romney

The real Hogules

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm
I realize many Arkansas fans discredit the effects injuries have had on this team but to think they should not have mattered is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to think that we can recruit on an equal basis with the rest of the SEC teams. I believe we can recruit on an equal basis with all but A&M, Ala schools, Florida and Georgia. However if we lose key players to injuries we may not be able to compete with any team.

We've lost many players this season. K. Jackson Fr. was showing promise early on lost to knee injury. Team leaders RW III, Pulley, and Cornelius were lost early. Promising linebacker J Bell and A J Baptist were lost early.
Allen was lost on Oct 7 and Hayden and Ragnow on Oct 21.
We've lost six leaders out of nine players. A developing team can not loose this many players and be a winning team.



Man, it's sooooooo unfair that other football teams don't ever have players get hurt, like we do here at the UofA!  :(
Bobby's back and he ain't here to paint!

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: Al Boarland on November 15, 2017, 05:02:55 am
Great points. The record against the talented teams is a reflection of recruiting near last in the SEC cycle after cycle. The record against somewhat similarly talented teams is due to injuries and them being tossup games. The SCar loss is the one head-scratcher game we get every year under CBB. We shouldn't have been dominated that game. Lose? Sure. Dominated? No.

Injuries to leaders on the team has an impact on the whole team's mentality. The snowball started building early and now it's as big as a house.

So if the SCar loss is a head scratcher,  did the Coastal Carolina game make sense?

 

rzrbk4life

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on November 15, 2017, 05:29:33 am
Remember, I'm the one who's always positive and looking for a way to defend the staff and the players.  There is no defense for the way the 2017 season has played out.  It doesn't matter who is hurt.  It doesn't matter how much better the other team is supposed to be.  The staffs job is to find something that will work and the players job is to give total effort to carry out that plan.  None of these things are happening.  The old adage "don't let go of the rope" does not apply this team. There is no rope.  There is a spiderweb, going off in every direction, being pulled apart.  When one string breaks, the whole thing collapses.  When one thing goes wrong on a Saturday, the whole thing collapses.  I put this on the staff, the players, and the entire culture of the program.  They have enough talent to be competitive.  But no one is on the same page. 

A few years ago, I was given a book about the history of Razorback Football.  The foreward of the book was written by Jim Lindsey.  He wrote that being a Razorback meant something.  Coach Broyles instilled something in the players that the current team lacks.  Lindsey said the when you put your hand in the ground and looked at the man across from you, odds are, "he was bigger than you, stronger than you, and better than you".  But there had to be something inside you that gave you the edge.  It's simply heart.  Accepting the underdog role and embracing it.  Overcoming adversity and fighting.  These things are lacking.  I find it so ironic that the year that Coach Broyles passes and the Broyles Complex is torn down, the fire that was the heart of Razorback Football seems to have gone out as well. 

So to reply to the original post.  The expectation is commitment to the program all day, every day.  Give everything you have.  Your best effort.  If you have 105 guys and a coaching staff doing that, the injuries won't mean as much. 

Well said FOTH.
Let's call those hogs!!!!

jgphillips3

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on November 15, 2017, 05:29:33 am
Remember, I'm the one who's always positive and looking for a way to defend the staff and the players.  There is no defense for the way the 2017 season has played out.  It doesn't matter who is hurt.  It doesn't matter how much better the other team is supposed to be.  The staffs job is to find something that will work and the players job is to give total effort to carry out that plan.  None of these things are happening.  The old adage "don't let go of the rope" does not apply this team. There is no rope.  There is a spiderweb, going off in every direction, being pulled apart.  When one string breaks, the whole thing collapses.  When one thing goes wrong on a Saturday, the whole thing collapses.  I put this on the staff, the players, and the entire culture of the program.  They have enough talent to be competitive.  But no one is on the same page. 

A few years ago, I was given a book about the history of Razorback Football.  The foreward of the book was written by Jim Lindsey.  He wrote that being a Razorback meant something.  Coach Broyles instilled something in the players that the current team lacks.  Lindsey said the when you put your hand in the ground and looked at the man across from you, odds are, "he was bigger than you, stronger than you, and better than you".  But there had to be something inside you that gave you the edge.  It's simply heart.  Accepting the underdog role and embracing it.  Overcoming adversity and fighting.  These things are lacking.  I find it so ironic that the year that Coach Broyles passes and the Broyles Complex is torn down, the fire that was the heart of Razorback Football seems to have gone out as well. 

So to reply to the original post.  The expectation is commitment to the program all day, every day.  Give everything you have.  Your best effort.  If you have 105 guys and a coaching staff doing that, the injuries won't mean as much. 

This.  This x 10.  We have, by recruiting ranking, top 25 talent.  We have no cohesive vision and no heart.  The Razorbacks I grew up with would go toe to toe and fight 60 minutes even if they knew they were outmanned.  Win or lose, they were Razorbacks.

hoglady

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on November 15, 2017, 05:29:33 am
Remember, I’m the one who’s always positive and looking for a way to defend the staff and the players.  There is no defense for the way the 2017 season has played out.  It doesn’t matter who is hurt.  It doesn’t matter how much better the other team is supposed to be.  The staffs job is to find something that will work and the players job is to give total effort to carry out that plan.  None of these things are happening.  The old adage “don’t let go of the rope” does not apply this team. There is no rope.  There is a spiderweb, going off in every direction, being pulled apart.  When one string breaks, the whole thing collapses.  When one thing goes wrong on a Saturday, the whole thing collapses.  I put this on the staff, the players, and the entire culture of the program.  They have enough talent to be competitive.  But no one is on the same page. 

A few years ago, I was given a book about the history of Razorback Football.  The foreward of the book was written by Jim Lindsey.  He wrote that being a Razorback meant something.  Coach Broyles instilled something in the players that the current team lacks.  Lindsey said the when you put your hand in the ground and looked at the man across from you, odds are, “he was bigger than you, stronger than you, and better than you”.  But there had to be something inside you that gave you the edge.  It’s simply heart.  Accepting the underdog role and embracing it.  Overcoming adversity and fighting.  These things are lacking.  I find it so ironic that the year that Coach Broyles passes and the Broyles Complex is torn down, the fire that was the heart of Razorback Football seems to have gone out as well. 

So to reply to the original post.  The expectation is commitment to the program all day, every day.  Give everything you have.  Your best effort.  If you have 105 guys and a coaching staff doing that, the injuries won’t mean as much. 

Thank You.
I wrote the other day that something just wasn't right with this team and hadn't been since last year.
I couldn't define it but I could see it.
You just defined it.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

CareBear

Quote from: jgphillips3 on November 15, 2017, 07:18:59 am
This.  This x 10.  We have, by recruiting ranking, top 25 talent.  We have no cohesive vision and no heart.  The Razorbacks I grew up with would go toe to toe and fight 60 minutes even if they knew they were outmanned.  Win or lose, they were Razorbacks.
Bingo!
The Razorback spirit, the proverbial chip on thy shoulder, the tenacity we played with even during some down years is gone. CBB & Jeffy came dwn here trying to tell us we were somehow doing it the wrong way. As if we were a dirty program or didn't know fundamentals. Horesh*t... CBB just can't coach football. He stands on the sidelines looking like he is on another planet. His personell decisions are perplexing. The team conditioning is awful. No halftime adjustments. All he brings is canned ham coach speak that means nothing. We were told that he developed players. Was Bert in a three point stance teaching technique to JJ Watt? Lol
Look y'all... We were epicly  bamboozled courtesy of Jeff Long. Just because some talking heads said he was a good hire doesn't mean it was. Kirk Herbstreit does not know the culture down here. I specifically recall Bo Mattingly saying on his radio show the week of the hire that we needed to be dynamic & progressive in offense at UofA because we were never going to have the quantity or quality of athletes that some of the other schools in the SEC had. I feel the same way. I was hoping for Gus, Gundy, or a young up & comer who could do more with less. We were told for months that Jeff Long had this secret, ace in the hole candidate... then the news comes out that it was Bert. I was dumbfounded. I've been watching college football for many years & knew what Wisconsin was & what type of offense they ran. I bought in after the introductory presser. I was convinced we were in trouble after the Rutgers game. Every GD thing that Wisky fans warned us about has came to fruition. CBB knows how to sweet talk & hustle the key media guys. Buddy up with them. Do a show with them. Manipulation 101 my friends. Bert has had more of a honeymoon than any coach I've ever seen in the modern era whilist destroying the program. He DID NOT inherit a dumpster fire. He started it!

jst01

It's people like the OP that champion low expectations and settle for mediocre effort. Sad attitude to have after facts over the past five years have been given to you.

rljjr

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm
I realize many Arkansas fans discredit the effects injuries have had on this team but to think they should not have mattered is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to think that we can recruit on an equal basis with the rest of the SEC teams. I believe we can recruit on an equal basis with all but A&M, Ala schools, Florida and Georgia. However if we lose key players to injuries we may not be able to compete with any team.

We've lost many players this season. K. Jackson Fr. was showing promise early on lost to knee injury. Team leaders RW III, Pulley, and Cornelius were lost early. Promising linebacker J Bell and A J Baptist were lost early.
Allen was lost on Oct 7 and Hayden and Ragnow on Oct 21.
We've lost six leaders out of nine players. A developing team can not loose this many players and be a winning team.




Hogwash. Particularly about the Aggies. Lots of people don't go there because of its cult-like atmosphere. The Aggies, for all of their money and alumni base, have next to zero football tradition as far as winning. Why people prop them up into a category they have never earned is beyond me. And don't talk to me about their 3 claimed National Championships won before 1939. They have potential, yes they do. But so does Arkansas. So tired of hearing about those chokers. There's a reason Aggies tell you they have never lost a game -- they've just run out of time.

Kevin

injuries have had an impact.

bad team to horrible team.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

hogsanity

I do always marvel at how when they media and coaches pick the order of finish in the pre season, Hog fans ( maybe all fans ) find ways to justify it if their teams is picked low. Hogs get picked 5th or 6th in the west and we have thread after thread about how that will be great motivation for the team, make them play with a chip on their shoulder. When what it really means is that other coaches know what your talent level is, know what your coach is and is not capable of doing with said talent. IT means they know that you have a very young ol, are trying to replace 4 receivers that made nfl teams, are going to rely on very young db's to contribute right away and are trying to play a 3-4 with only 1 sec calibre lb.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

KevinOMReb

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 14, 2017, 07:54:40 pm
I realize many Arkansas fans discredit the effects injuries have had on this team but to think they should not have mattered is unrealistic. It is also unrealistic to think that we can recruit on an equal basis with the rest of the SEC teams. I believe we can recruit on an equal basis with all but A&M, Ala schools, Florida and Georgia. However if we lose key players to injuries we may not be able to compete with any team.

We've lost many players this season. K. Jackson Fr. was showing promise early on lost to knee injury. Team leaders RW III, Pulley, and Cornelius were lost early. Promising linebacker J Bell and A J Baptist were lost early.
Allen was lost on Oct 7 and Hayden and Ragnow on Oct 21.
We've lost six leaders out of nine players. A developing team can not loose this many players and be a winning team.


Bret never signed ONE SEC quality WR.  Most didn't have other SEC offers. Teams loaded up against the run.  Then at the end he lost several battles on the OL recruitment and ended up with 2 walk-ons.  We had the same issue with Freeze.  Our linebackers wouldn't play for UCA.  Had we 2 decent LB's we'd be 7-3.
Hotty Toddy,
KevinOMReb

WilsonHog

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on November 15, 2017, 05:29:33 am
Remember, I'm the one who's always positive and looking for a way to defend the staff and the players.  There is no defense for the way the 2017 season has played out.  It doesn't matter who is hurt.  It doesn't matter how much better the other team is supposed to be.  The staffs job is to find something that will work and the players job is to give total effort to carry out that plan.  None of these things are happening.  The old adage "don't let go of the rope" does not apply this team. There is no rope.  There is a spiderweb, going off in every direction, being pulled apart.  When one string breaks, the whole thing collapses.  When one thing goes wrong on a Saturday, the whole thing collapses.  I put this on the staff, the players, and the entire culture of the program.  They have enough talent to be competitive.  But no one is on the same page. 

A few years ago, I was given a book about the history of Razorback Football.  The foreward of the book was written by Jim Lindsey.  He wrote that being a Razorback meant something.  Coach Broyles instilled something in the players that the current team lacks.  Lindsey said the when you put your hand in the ground and looked at the man across from you, odds are, "he was bigger than you, stronger than you, and better than you".  But there had to be something inside you that gave you the edge.  It's simply heart.  Accepting the underdog role and embracing it.  Overcoming adversity and fighting.  These things are lacking.  I find it so ironic that the year that Coach Broyles passes and the Broyles Complex is torn down, the fire that was the heart of Razorback Football seems to have gone out as well. 

So to reply to the original post.  The expectation is commitment to the program all day, every day.  Give everything you have.  Your best effort.  If you have 105 guys and a coaching staff doing that, the injuries won't mean as much.

That is one helluva post.

Shoat

The only unrealistic aspect of this situation was Jeff Long's faith in BB's actual coaching ability!

 

logic

Of course injuries hurt and effect the score.  However, all teams have at least a few injuries and injuries don't explain the final two games last season nor do injuries explain how Coastal Carolina almost won when they have all freshmen O-line and where, even with the injuries, we still had more natural talent and/or experience at almost every position. Perhaps without injuries we would have beat TA&M but other loses were too lopsided to be explained by injuries.