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Perry

Started by BannerMountainMan, July 17, 2017, 11:32:35 am

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mizzouman

I think unless you are UNC, Kentucky, Duke or kansas, I think you have to accept the fact that it will be rare that you get a 5 star kid unless the kid is in state or has some connection to your school or coach, and even then, you'll have to fight off the big 3.

hogsanity

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 12:42:37 pm


I'm trying really hard not to get down on Anderson because I've come to accept his recruiting/coaching tendencies, but something is obviously missing. Non-blue blood programs get 5-star players, as evidenced by Perry going to Mississippi State. These kids have to feel the love (whatever that may actually mean). This staff seems to only excel with undervalued recruits. Anderson can usually get the most out of them, but that isn't enough to get over the hump as a program.

I'm at the point now where I feel like if you're okay with how this staff recruits, you're basically saying you're okay with the ceiling of the program being severely capped. Like, the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 is now the Final 4 or National Championship to better recruiting programs. Because Anderson is a good coach, but he isn't a good enough coach to be able to take this kind of talent all the way like a Jay Wright did or Mark Few or Gregg Marshall might be able to. I generally like the recruits Anderson signs in the early period and his non-scramble late period signees, but we're always short on difference-makers. We'll have guys like Hannahs, Kingsley, Macon, Barford, Bell, etc. that become difference-makers for the Hogs but aren't big enough difference-makers on a national level to propel the team to real success. Ideally, a Dusty Hannahs is a great 3rd/4th option on a legit team with real hopes of going deep. Ideally, Moses Kingsley is not your best pro prospect or even your second best pro prospect (that might be pushing it). Ideally, you're not hoping and praying two JUCO guys come back for their senior seasons so you can have a shot at have All-SEC talent. Gotta have more guys like Perry and Monk to really do something. It really shouldn't be this hard to keep in-state/deep state-connected guys. If the staff were batting even .500, it'd make a big difference.

Am I willing to accept the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 has the best that can be hoped for? It's hard not to get down on the staff here, regardless of the reason. And I don't think we can look at what has happened here and definitely tell ourselves it was because his dad was sick. It is not clear at all that he ended up at MSU for that reason. I love Mike and I really, really want it to work with him, but come on, man. We gotta start getting more ARKANSAS-BORN elite talent. So far, you've gotten ONE guy. It's hard to look past.


I've said it before, but if the coach that was hired after Pelphrey had a name other than Mike Anderson, the very same people saying Mike is the greatest thing at Arkansas in 20 years would have been calling for his head after year 4.

The again I actually think most of the Mike PR crew posting here are fake. I just happen to be bored today.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

hogsanity

Quote from: mizzouman on July 17, 2017, 12:56:23 pm
I think unless you are UNC, Kentucky, Duke or kansas, I think you have to accept the fact that it will be rare that you get a 5 star kid unless the kid is in state or has some connection to your school or coach, and even then, you'll have to fight off the big 3.


But when they are in state you have to keep them, and not lose them to MISSTAKE State.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

mizzouman

Quote from: hogsanity on July 17, 2017, 12:57:51 pm
But when they are in state you have to keep them, and not lose them to MISSTAKE State.
When did he move?

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: hogsanity on July 17, 2017, 12:51:26 pm
Yep, nothing says winning like a 5 seed and a 8th seed in the ncaat in 5 seasons. Nothing says success like watching the top in state players go play at places like KY, FLA, Minn, and Miss St in stead of staying to play for the Hogs.
you must of not went to school the last time I checked 27-9, 26-10 is a winning record and he hasn't had a losing record so I could say that's called winning and not losing
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

Hawg Red

Quote from: mizzouman on July 17, 2017, 12:56:23 pm
I think unless you are UNC, Kentucky, Duke or kansas, I think you have to accept the fact that it will be rare that you get a 5 star kid unless the kid is in state or has some connection to your school or coach, and even then, you'll have to fight off the big 3.

We're talking about a kid originally from LR, that plays on a LR AAU team with 4 other teammates committed to Arkansas.....that we lost to Mississippi State. Not Kansas or Kentucky. Mississippi State. Despite all the strong ties.

The Hogfather

Quote from: mizzouman on July 17, 2017, 12:56:23 pm
I think unless you are UNC, Kentucky, Duke or kansas, I think you have to accept the fact that it will be rare that you get a 5 star kid unless the kid is in state or has some connection to your school or coach, and even then, you'll have to fight off the big 3.

We had all of that, including an actual commitment and comments about Arkansas being his Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke.

RME

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on July 17, 2017, 12:53:33 pm
Well now there's the difference. 5 star and 4 star. There's just something about that extra star that does things to people. ;)

Speaking from personal experience?

The Hogfather

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 01:00:40 pm
We're talking about a kid originally from LR, that plays on a LR AAU team with 4 other teammates committed to Arkansas.....that we lost to Mississippi State. Not Kansas or Kentucky. Mississippi State. Despite all the strong ties.

More people trying to justify it and make legit excuses. 

hogsanity

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on July 17, 2017, 01:00:30 pm
you must of not went to school the last time I checked 27-9, 26-10 is a winning record and he hasn't had a losing record so I could say that's called and winning and not losing

But Ive been told on Hogville, repeatedly, that simply winning more games than you lose is not winning because of all the rent a wins and cream puffs. If, simply winning more than losing is the definition of winning, fine, as long as it is applied evenly.

But you know as well as I do that the only thing people care about in NCAA basketball anymore is what did you do in the ncaat.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

The Hogfather

He's an Arkansas native and lived in Little Rock until a few years ago.  He committed and called Arkansas his Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke.  He was set to play with a bunch of his friends and current teammates.  Both Anderson and Howland were the coaches at their respective programs when he committed.  Nothing has changed, except the amount of shady.

AirWarren

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 12:42:37 pm
I no longer have any expectation for Arkansas to be able to land a 5-star player, including those within the state. At least under this coaching staff. Bobby Portis looks like an extreme outlier at this point.

I'm trying really hard not to get down on Anderson because I've come to accept his recruiting/coaching tendencies, but something is obviously missing. Non-blue blood programs get 5-star players, as evidenced by Perry going to Mississippi State. These kids have to feel the love (whatever that may actually mean). This staff seems to only excel with undervalued recruits. Anderson can usually get the most out of them, but that isn't enough to get over the hump as a program.

I'm at the point now where I feel like if you're okay with how this staff recruits, you're basically saying you're okay with the ceiling of the program being severely capped. Like, the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 is now the Final 4 or National Championship to better recruiting programs. Because Anderson is a good coach, but he isn't a good enough coach to be able to take this kind of talent all the way like a Jay Wright did or Mark Few or Gregg Marshall might be able to. I generally like the recruits Anderson signs in the early period and his non-scramble late period signees, but we're always short on difference-makers. We'll have guys like Hannahs, Kingsley, Macon, Barford, Bell, etc. that become difference-makers for the Hogs but aren't big enough difference-makers on a national level to propel the team to real success. Ideally, a Dusty Hannahs is a great 3rd/4th option on a legit team with real hopes of going deep. Ideally, Moses Kingsley is not your best pro prospect or even your second best pro prospect (that might be pushing it). Ideally, you're not hoping and praying two JUCO guys come back for their senior seasons so you can have a shot at have All-SEC talent. Gotta have more guys like Perry and Monk to really do something. It really shouldn't be this hard to keep in-state/deep state-connected guys. If the staff were batting even .500, it'd make a big difference.

Am I willing to accept the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 has the best that can be hoped for? It's hard not to get down on the staff here, regardless of the reason. And I don't think we can look at what has happened here and definitely tell ourselves it was because his dad was sick. It is not clear at all that he ended up at MSU for that reason. I love Mike and I really, really want it to work with him, but come on, man. We gotta start getting more ARKANSAS-BORN elite talent. So far, you've gotten ONE guy. It's hard to look past.

Arkansas will never be a school to attract 5 star kids year in and year out. Tough pill to
Swallow for some but it's true.

hogsanity

Quote from: The Hogfather on July 17, 2017, 01:06:00 pm
He's an Arkansas native and lived in Little Rock until a few years ago.  He committed and called Arkansas his Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke.  He was set to play with a bunch of his friends and current teammates.  Both Anderson and Howland were the coaches at their respective programs when he committed.  Nothing has changed, except the amount of shady.

Actually one thing has changed, Perry is going to play for MSU and not UofA. The rest is all sour grapes on the part of Mike err I mean Hog fans.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

The Hogfather

Quote from: hogsanity on July 17, 2017, 01:08:23 pm
Actually one thing has changed, Perry is going to play for MSU and not UofA. The rest is all sour grapes on the part of Mike err I mean Hog fans.

I meant the reasoning of why he originally chose Arkansas over Miss State and every other school compared to now.  It isn't like Mississippi State just hired Howland or Anderson is leaving or we lost other commitments or we had a disappointing season since he committed or we switched systems since he committed.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: The Hogfather on July 17, 2017, 01:06:00 pm
He's an Arkansas native and lived in Little Rock until a few years ago.  He committed and called Arkansas his Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke.  He was set to play with a bunch of his friends and current teammates.  Both Anderson and Howland were the coaches at their respective programs when he committed.  Nothing has changed, except the amount of shady.

What middle school did Reggie Perry attend in Arkansas?

KevinOMReb

Something's rotten here.  He decommited to be closer to home.  MSU?  Seven hours from Thomasville. 
Hotty Toddy,
KevinOMReb

ShadowHawg

Perry isn't an in state kid because he went to elementary school in Little Rock. Some of you are stretching ties to the state to its limits.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: ShadowHawg on July 17, 2017, 01:17:08 pm
Perry isn't an in state kid because he went to elementary school in Little Rock. Some of you are stretching ties to the state to its limits.

Right!! The kid was out the state before he played middle school ball. His dad played at State. Case closed

mizzouman

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on July 17, 2017, 01:18:46 pm
Right!! The kid was out the state before he played middle school ball. His dad played at State. Case closed
This is why I'm asking, when did he move?

PorkRinds

Kids dad talked him into MSU. It is what it is.

311Hog

hope the kid enjoys losing, he shoulda called Ben Simmons.

Hawg Red

Quote from: The ColonelHog on July 17, 2017, 01:05:45 pm
I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a crap about pissing off Arkansas fans just like Monk doesn't.  It's pretty funny that people on HV think they are so important that athletes actually give a hoot what they think.  The young man will have a million reasons not to care all in $$ signs a couple of years from now!  LMAO!  Can we get over it and move on PLEEEEZZZZZ!

If that family didn't care what people thought, his mom wouldn't have shown out like she did. And she likely reacted the way she did because it got to her son. It's obvious they give a crap what people think. It's just typical of today's society -- all praise and no criticism. It's fine for fans to get on Twitter and tell him how great he is but they don't want anything negative. That's not how it works.

BannerMountainMan

I thought y'all said he just moved, he freaking moved in middle school 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 he prolly didn't even know who the hogs were then omg hahahaahahah
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

311Hog

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on July 17, 2017, 01:24:14 pm
I thought y'all said he just moved, he freaking moved in middle school 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 he prolly didn't even know who the hogs were then omg hahahaahahah

then why does/did he play for the Arkansas Hawks in AAU? basically that entire team are Hog recruits, but oh yeah he doesn't have AR ties at all right?.....please

 

Hawg Red

Quote from: AP85 on July 17, 2017, 01:06:16 pm
Arkansas will never be a school to attract 5 star kids year in and year out. Tough pill to
Swallow for some but it's true.

It's a very tough pill to swallow, but I've swallowed it now.

Hawg Red

He's been playing for a LR-based AAU team and obviously has/had an extremely strong bond with 4 Arkansas resident players enough to want to play at Arkansas with him. He's obviously still very familiar with his Arkansas roots.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: 311Hog on July 17, 2017, 01:25:35 pm
then why does/did he play for the Arkansas Hawks in AAU? basically that entire team are Hog recruits, but oh yeah he doesn't have AR ties at all right?.....please
you don't play for the hawks in  freaking 5th grade
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

311Hog

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on July 17, 2017, 01:27:29 pm
you don't play for the hawks in  freaking 5th grade

he played for them now genius.  Why would a kid that moved away in 5th grade as you say to Georgia CHOOSE to play his AAU ball back with the kids he knew in 5th grade if he didn't have strong ties here?

It is just plain stupid to think otherwise...

Youngsta71701

Quote from: The Hogfather on July 17, 2017, 12:54:04 pm
Hmmm...wonder what that could be??  :)
Ching Ching...Money Money Money Money, Money...In my "New Jack City" voice.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on July 17, 2017, 01:02:31 pm
Speaking from personal experience?
With a name like RyanMallettsEgo you should know. ;D
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hogsanity on July 17, 2017, 01:03:00 pm
But Ive been told on Hogville, repeatedly, that simply winning more games than you lose is not winning because of all the rent a wins and cream puffs. If, simply winning more than losing is the definition of winning, fine, as long as it is applied evenly.

But you know as well as I do that the only thing people care about in NCAA basketball anymore is what did you do in the ncaat.
Personally I put more stock into conference record and tournament record than overall record. I can't speak for the rest.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: The ColonelHog on July 17, 2017, 01:05:45 pm
I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a crap about pissing off Arkansas fans just like Monk doesn't.  It's pretty funny that people on HV think they are so important that athletes actually give a hoot what they think.  The young man will have a million reasons not to care all in $$ signs a couple of years from now!  LMAO!  Can we get over it and move on PLEEEEZZZZZ!
Ask Kevin Durant and LeBron James if they care what people and the fans think about them. The REAL answer might be surprising.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: 311Hog on July 17, 2017, 01:25:35 pm
then why does/did he play for the Arkansas Hawks in AAU? basically that entire team are Hog recruits, but oh yeah he doesn't have AR ties at all right?.....please
There are kids from all over the country that play AAU ball with other kids from all over the country. AAU ball doesn't automatically = ties to the state.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

311Hog

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on July 17, 2017, 01:44:02 pm
There are kids from all over the country that play AAU ball with other kids from all over the country. AAU ball doesn't automatically = ties to the state.

No it doesn't but actually living in that state and then writing an emotion filled letter upon your commitment with the rest of your AAU team to a single specific college sorta does.

The Hogfather

Quote from: Youngsta71701 on July 17, 2017, 01:44:02 pm
There are kids from all over the country that play AAU ball with other kids from all over the country. AAU ball doesn't automatically = ties to the state.

Right, but he lived in Little Rock.

QuotePerry, who moved to Little Rock in the sixth grade and lived there until about three years ago, announced his decision on Twitter and said Arkansas was his equivalent to Kentucky, Kansas or Duke.

"Really when I say that, it's because everyone has a dream of going to one of those schools," Perry said. "They all look at them being one of the best college teams and they have to go there. Basically, I'm just saying this is my place where I can be the most successful."

Perry said Anderson and the Arkansas staff were key in his decision.

"They're experienced and I've known them for a while," Perry said. "Coach Anderson has a good winning record and I like what he's doing in his program."

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2016/aug/17/reggie-perry-commits-hogs/

Letsroll1200

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 01:27:01 pm
He's been playing for a LR-based AAU team and obviously has/had an extremely strong bond with 4 Arkansas resident players enough to want to play at Arkansas with him. He's obviously still very familiar with his Arkansas roots.

He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault.

The Hogfather

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on July 17, 2017, 01:50:05 pm
He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault.

Again, nothing changed since his original commitment to ARKANSAS. 

311Hog

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on July 17, 2017, 01:50:05 pm
He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault.

i ain't mad at a kid i don't even know either but he could not have handled this worse if he tried. 

Hawg Red

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on July 17, 2017, 01:50:05 pm
He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault.

What was his father telling him when he originally committed to Arkansas?

Fayettetopia

Quote from: hogsanity on July 17, 2017, 12:27:24 pm
None of the situations are ever the same, but the players are.  Projected to be one and done maybe two, highly recruited by top programs, and more often than not they end up NOT playing for the UofA.

As for Perry, who knows exactly why he changed his mind, and MSU is NOT a basketball destination, but the fact remains another top level kid that grew up in Ar is playing somewhere else.

It makes perfect sense that he wanted to be closer to home (which it is by several hours), and he wants to honor his dad. It's a solution to both of the problems he named when he decommitted (dad's illness, distance from home).  It has nothing to do with Mike if you consider those things. If it did, he wouldn't have committed here in the first place.

azhog10

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 01:00:40 pm
We're talking about a kid originally from LR, that plays on a LR AAU team with 4 other teammates committed to Arkansas.....that we lost to Mississippi State. Not Kansas or Kentucky. Mississippi State. Despite all the strong ties.
According to the Perrys he is not from Arkansas. So was he from ark?

311Hog

Quote from: azhog10 on July 17, 2017, 02:07:21 pm
According to the Perrys he is not from Arkansas. So was he from ark?

i believe he moved to AR in 5th grade and stayed until 9th gradish, then played with AR Hawks AAU during highschool years after he moved away.

Fayettetopia

And he only lived here a few years starting in 6th grade, not "grew up" here.

azhog10

Quote from: Hawg Red on July 17, 2017, 01:56:25 pm
What was his father telling him when he originally committed to Arkansas?
Same thing he is now. But Reggies mom loved Ark. let's just sayhaving Etop Udo-Ema in Italy helped smooth all this over. Adidas sponsored trip, aDidas sponsored program.

Fayettetopia

Quote from: The Hogfather on July 17, 2017, 01:06:00 pm
He's an Arkansas native and lived in Little Rock until a few years ago.  He committed and called Arkansas his Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke.  He was set to play with a bunch of his friends and current teammates.  Both Anderson and Howland were the coaches at their respective programs when he committed.  Nothing has changed, except the amount of shady.

He is not an Arkansas native. He lived here in Jr. High.

Youngsta71701

Quote from: 311Hog on July 17, 2017, 01:45:53 pm
No it doesn't but actually living in that state and then writing an emotion filled letter upon your commitment with the rest of your AAU team to a single specific college sorta does.
True, he had ties to those players but not DEEP ROOTED ties to the state. Once he left the state those ties became less and less over time.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: The Hogfather on July 17, 2017, 01:46:41 pm
Right, but he lived in Little Rock.

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2016/aug/17/reggie-perry-commits-hogs/
Yep, My brother lives in Dallas, TX but hates the Texas Longhorns. Go figure.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Youngsta71701

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on July 17, 2017, 01:50:05 pm
He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault.
Good post. About as simple and real as it gets. TRUE fathers have a lot of influence on their kids. Especially their sons.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Fayettetopia

"He play AAU basketball in the summer for a Arkansas based club. He's had a relationship with his father all of his life. In recruiting sometimes its about relationships and connections. When Daryl Macon signed with the Hogs he talked about his grandfathers love for the Razorbacks. That might have played some part in Macon becoming a Razorback.

Reggie decided to listen to his father. I'm not mad at the kid because when I was 17 my father's word was the gospel at my house. I'm not upset at the kid and it's not Mike Anderson fault."

^^^^This

Letsroll1200

According to a article on The Clarion-Ledger Al perry was quoted as saying " coach Howland allowing his stretch-fours to handle the basketball, setting four or five screens for (them) and create some mismatches,"" Al said. It's something we looked at, not stifling Reggie's game.

"Coach style allows him to show his versatility on both ends of the court"   

www. clarionledger.com