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Author Topic: JLS "Smiley's" Full year of non recruiting same as one year death penalty?  (Read 2079 times)

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hogninja

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Would anyone agree that the lack of 1 year of active recruiting before CBB came here could have been a Big setback?  I haven't seen a serious discussion about this on this subject. ???
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b501

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http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/Commits

i dunno man he managed to get some good players including sprinkle, deatrich wise, philon, keon hatcher and jonathan williams

not to mention the legend vin ascolese  ;)
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factchecker

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http://arkansas.247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/Commits

i dunno man he managed to get some good players including sprinkle, deatrich wise, philon, keon hatcher and jonathan williams

not to mention the legend vin ascolese  ;)

That class was signed before Petrino was fired.  Signing day is in February and the wreck happened in April.

The impact of non-recruiting happened during the 2012 season leading up to the 2013 signing day.  The 2013 signing class was pretty impressive once you realized that Bielema only had a couple months to piece it together.

Key players from 2013 signing class:

Alex Collins
Hunter Henry
Denver Kirkland
(Imagine if we got these three back for their senior season)
Austin Allen
Brooks Ellis
Dan Skipper
Martrell Spaight
De'Andre Coley
Drew Morgan

Pretty good walk-on group as well (I think all ended up or are currently on scholarship):

A.J. Derby
Sam Irwin-Hill
Karl Roesler
Kevin Richardson
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Nailed it.
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b501

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That class was signed before Petrino was fired.  Signing day is in February and the wreck happened in April.

The impact of non-recruiting happened during the 2012 season leading up to the 2013 signing day.  The 2013 signing class was pretty impressive once you realized that Bielema only had a couple months to piece it together.


well hell that class is even better than the 2012!
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Cinco de Hogo

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Would anyone agree that the lack of 1 year of active recruiting before CBB came here could have been a Big setback?  I haven't seen a serious discussion about this on this subject. ???

First, I think it probably has been debated to death in the past but maybe you missed those threads.

Second, you serious man or are you just another CBB supporter trying to find an excuse? 

Third, seriously stop with the excuses and let's get serious about fielding a winning program, which I have no doubt CBB and players are. 

Fourth, almost everyone on this MB agrees that CBB has two more years to "get it done" barring a total collapse. 

Fifth, nobody expects a total collapse.
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rhog1

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The NCAA should start giving schools a year or two of JLS as head coach in lieu of punishment for serious offenders. I bet we would have a lot less cheating.
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LRrazorback

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Would anyone agree that the lack of 1 year of active recruiting before CBB came here could have been a Big setback?  I haven't seen a serious discussion about this on this subject. ???

There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.
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hogcard1964

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There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.

Can't be true.

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Cinco de Hogo

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There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.

The problem with the 2012 and 2013 team was moral.  That whole mess really did a number on those kids and CBB had his hands full getting them back.   

While Petrino had to shoulder 100% of the blame, Longs decision certainly didn't do those kids any favors.  In their rush to push Petrino out the door they didn't consider the players at all.  Maybe that's right in an adult world maybe other measures could have been taken.  One thing is for sure, it's over and done.
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LRrazorback

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The problem with the 2012 and 2014 team was moral.  That whole mess really did a number on those kids and CBB had his hands full getting them back.   

While Petrino had to shoulder 100% of the blame, Longs decision certainly didn't do those kids any favors.  In their rush to push Petrino out the door they didn't consider the players at all.  Maybe that's right in an adult world maybe other measures could have been taken.  One thing is for sure, it's over and done.
Moral?  Were you there?
I'd say the exact opposite. I would think the players finally don't have to live under authoritarian rule and moral would be through the roof.  Unfortunately, moral on the football field doesn't win, strict authoritarian does.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Moral?  Were you there?
I'd say the exact opposite. I would think the players finally don't have to live under authoritarian rule and moral would be through the roof.  Unfortunately, moral on the football field doesn't win, strict authoritarian does.

Probably both, and yes I was "there" (or maybe that should be "here")just as much as you were. 
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Polecat

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Smiley did a good job Getting His Piss Hot on the recruiting trail
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DeltaBoy

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Would anyone agree that the lack of 1 year of active recruiting before CBB came here could have been a Big setback?  I haven't seen a serious discussion about this on this subject. ???

Yes and that hire is enough for me to see Jeff Long fired.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Yes and that hire is enough for me to see Jeff Long fired.

Jeff is going anywhere. He explained the situation to his bosses. They got jobbed by Slappy. No sense in reliving it.
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DeltaBoy

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Jeff is going anywhere. He explained the situation to his bosses. They got jobbed by Slappy. No sense in reliving it.
If he really got snowed by Smile  he now where as smart as his supporters claim here.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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If he really got snowed by Smile  he now where as smart as his supporters claim here.

Huh?

Slow down and youse Anglish.
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rhames

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The problem with the 2012 and 2013 team was moral.  That whole mess really did a number on those kids and CBB had his hands full getting them back.   

While Petrino had to shoulder 100% of the blame, Longs decision certainly didn't do those kids any favors.  In their rush to push Petrino out the door they didn't consider the players at all.  Maybe that's right in an adult world maybe other measures could have been taken.  One thing is for sure, it's over and done.

They did consider the players. The players wanted John l
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Cinco de Hogo

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They did consider the players. The players wanted John l

Not eggzactly what I meant but you are right after the fact. 😎
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Moral?  Were you there?
I'd say the exact opposite. I would think the players finally don't have to live under authoritarian rule and moral would be through the roof.  Unfortunately, moral on the football field doesn't win, strict authoritarian does.

Moral?  Were you there?
I'd say the exact opposite. I would think the players finally don't have to live under authoritarian rule and moral would be through the roof.  Unfortunately, moral on the football field doesn't win, strict authoritarian does.

I think there's something to this all.

While the moral on the field may have been low, at least the morales the players expressed were high.
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rhames

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Not eggzactly what I meant but you are right after the fact. 😎



I would argue I'm right before the fact, and you are after since it was such a disaster haha.
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Cinco de Hogo

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I would argue I'm right before the fact, and you are after since it was such a disaster haha.

What I meant was they didn't consider the players before they fired BP.  I know what the players said after they fired him but if they hadn't it would have been business as usual.  BP would have been coaching in his style with players he recruited for that style and after four years that's exactly what the players were used to and expected.               

They got Smile!
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rhames

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What I meant was they didn't consider the players before they fired BP.  I know what the players said after they fired him but if they hadn't it would have been business as usual.  BP would have been coaching in his style with players he recruited for that style and after four years that's exactly what the players were used to and expected.               

They got Smile!


I understand that but I think Robert's actions were so severe that Jeff really didn't have an option to ask "what effect could this have on the players?" IE firing him

He was already too deep in the ditch for redemption. Pun intended.
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mizzouman

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That actually brings up something interesting.  I would like to see the NCAA, as part of a punishment, tell a school they cannot sign anyone in an entire class. 
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Cinco de Hogo

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That actually brings up something interesting.  I would like to see the NCAA, as part of a punishment, tell a school they cannot sign anyone in an entire class.

There is another thread that thought should have been posted in. 😉
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Surfing8

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Is this thread meant to somehow attribute Bielema's current struggles to John L. Smith?  lol

John White deserves a mention here somewhere. 
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gchamblee

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The NCAA should start giving schools a year or two of JLS as head coach in lieu of punishment for serious offenders. I bet we would have a lot less cheating.
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gchamblee

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There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.

You spelled "starting a bunch of freshmen" wrong.
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gchamblee

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The problem with the 2012 and 2013 team was moral.  That whole mess really did a number on those kids and CBB had his hands full getting them back.   

While Petrino had to shoulder 100% of the blame, Longs decision certainly didn't do those kids any favors.  In their rush to push Petrino out the door they didn't consider the players at all.  Maybe that's right in an adult world maybe other measures could have been taken.  One thing is for sure, it's over and done.

Finding a coach in April is easy.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Finding a coach in April is easy.

Sure it is you just offer Saban 50 mil. 😉
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mizzouman

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There is another thread that thought should have been posted in. 😉
I know but this thread kinda triggered that thought.
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colbs

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There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.
While there were some really good players inherited overall there wasn't a ton of talent leftover.  A lot of holes.  It was almost like a snowball effect during the JLS year.  Not only did BB lose a year of recruiting, the perception of the program took a hit.  After that one season Arkansas was thought as a mid to low SEC program.  Then the next season it didn't help any going 3-9. 

Whether you want to admit it or not that year hurt the program pretty bad.  Saying that it's year 5 and It's time for BB to take the next step here.  I really don't blame him for the first season but the last couple and this coming one I think he deserves the full blame or credit.  Until last year he improved every year.  So we are about to find out pretty soon if he's a 7-8 win coach or if he can take the next step and get to 9-10.
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twistitup

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no excuses....just win
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Al Boarland

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Is the OP from 2013?

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gchamblee

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no excuses....just win

And get that bama quality nutrition!
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twistitup

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And get that bama quality nutrition!

That would be nice.

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hogcard1964

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Jeff is going anywhere. He explained the situation to his bosses. They got jobbed by Slappy. No sense in reliving it.

Li'l Jeff has been jobbed by a few coaches, hasn't he?
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gmarv

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While there were some really good players inherited overall there wasn't a ton of talent leftover.  A lot of holes.  It was almost like a snowball effect during the JLS year.  Not only did BB lose a year of recruiting, the perception of the program took a hit.  After that one season Arkansas was thought as a mid to low SEC program.  Then the next season it didn't help any going 3-9. 

Whether you want to admit it or not that year hurt the program pretty bad.  Saying that it's year 5 and It's time for BB to take the next step here.  I really don't blame him for the first season but the last couple and this coming one I think he deserves the full blame or credit.  Until last year he improved every year.  So we are about to find out pretty soon if he's a 7-8 win coach or if he can take the next step and get to 9-10.
I agree with this.It is time cbb proves he is worth keeping,I hope he does I like the man.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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While there were some really good players inherited overall there wasn't a ton of talent leftover.  A lot of holes.  It was almost like a snowball effect during the JLS year.  Not only did BB lose a year of recruiting, the perception of the program took a hit.  After that one season Arkansas was thought as a mid to low SEC program.  Then the next season it didn't help any going 3-9. 

Whether you want to admit it or not that year hurt the program pretty bad.  Saying that it's year 5 and It's time for BB to take the next step here.  I really don't blame him for the first season but the last couple and this coming one I think he deserves the full blame or credit.  Until last year he improved every year.  So we are about to find out pretty soon if he's a 7-8 win coach or if he can take the next step and get to 9-10.

There could be an argument made that we should have won 9 to 10 each of the last 3 years. So short of AA and Whaley going down this season, this needs to be a 9 win season regardless of who we play or where we play them. Now if we only win 8 and we are right in the games of the 4 that we lose, like 31-28 vs. Alabama, and we play as a team, don't step on our pee-pee's and don't choke away any leads, I guess I could live with 8. That's my position on this year.
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theFlyingHog

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How can any of you argue anything if you don't know the difference between moral and morale?
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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How can any of you argue anything if you don't know the difference between moral and morale?

See my post from above.

I think there's something to this all.

While the moral on the field may have been low, at least the morales the players expressed were high.
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Cinco de Hogo

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How can any of you argue anything if you don't know the difference between moral and morale?

Their is allways one ain't they, weather its you or its me.  Bad spellers or speller nazis.
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BigE_23

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There really wasn't a drop in recruiting from the transition/mess. Because of the timing, JLS didn't really have to recruit.  He inherited a team with very good talent and so did CBB.  The narrative is CBB took over a dumpster fire when in reality he took over a pretty talented team, particularly if you look at NFL draft picks.

Nobody wants to hear this...
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Pigsknuckles

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Is this thread meant to somehow attribute Bielema's current struggles to John L. Smith?  lol

John White deserves a mention here somewhere. 

I think this thread is a "not so subtle" anti Jeff Long referendum. The John L year was a dark time, and a huge setback. Those here who complained loudly  about that hire have been vindicated. The uphill climb following JLS  would have been steep for anyone. Still, Coach has been here long enough to own his own problems, so I'm not going to temper my expectations of Bielema based on that one dreadful season.
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hogsanity

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Fourth, almost everyone on this MB agrees that CBB has two more years to "get it done" barring a total collapse. 



Are we going to define " get it done "? Is it a NC? make the playoff? win the sec? win the secw? make a NY 6 bowl? Beat A&M?
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Surfing8

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I think this thread is a "not so subtle" anti Jeff Long referendum. The John L year was a dark time, and a huge setback. Those here who complained loudly  about that hire have been vindicated. The uphill climb following JLS  would have been steep for anyone. Still, Coach has been here long enough to own his own problems, so I'm not going to temper my expectations of Bielema based on that one dreadful season.

This thread has turned into a referendum of sorts, because based on the reality we've seen that's the natural conclusion of this discussion.

It didn't start that way however... it seems a not-so-well-planned attempt at spin... trying to deflect from the distinct potential for continued 'Meh' from Bielema and the football program. 
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Pigsknuckles

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Are we going to define " get it done "? Is it a NC? make the playoff? win the sec? win the secw? make a NY 6 bowl? Beat A&M?

To me, "getting it done" is more a body of work rather than a single accomplishment. Eliminate the Toledo games, the Auburn beat downs, the brain farts that cost us the MS game in 2015, and the second half no shows against VT and Mizzou. Do that, and get the Aggie monkey off our backs and we are in a position to accomplish some of the bigger things. All in all, the confidence that we can be competitive with anyone on any given day goes a long way to foster fanbase approval.
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hogsanity

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To me, "getting it done" is more a body of work rather than a single accomplishment. Eliminate the Toledo games, the Auburn beat downs, the brain farts that cost us the MS game in 2015, and the second half no shows against VT and Mizzou. Do that, and get the Aggie monkey off our backs and we are in a position to accomplish some of the bigger things. All in all, the confidence that we can be competitive with anyone on any given day goes a long way to foster fanbase approval.

So " get it done " is like " winning " here. The definition floats to fit the narrative. The games you mentioned would not have put them any closer to accomplishing any of the bigger things. To do that they have to have a team that is capable of beating Bama. They may not do it, but they have to be talented enough to do so. A team that talented would not lose to toledo, or get beaten 56-3 by Auburn or collapse in the 2nd half against Mizzu or VT.
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Pigsknuckles

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So " get it done " is like " winning " here. The definition floats to fit the narrative. The games you mentioned would not have put them any closer to accomplishing any of the bigger things. To do that they have to have a team that is capable of beating Bama. They may not do it, but they have to be talented enough to do so. A team that talented would not lose to toledo, or get beaten 56-3 by Auburn or collapse in the 2nd half against Mizzu or VT.

A lot of moving parts here. Recruit, and coach up the best talent you can. Anticipate, and eliminate controllable errors. Win the games you should, and a maybe few you shouldn't, etc. Successful coaches and teams have learned how to win, though that formula is not readily definable. Successful coaches put their team in a position to take advantage of the available talent, and opportunities that come their way, without providing the same opportunities to the opposition. At the end of the season, the coaches and teams that have done these things well will be the ones playing for the bling.
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hogmolar

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To me, "getting it done" is more a body of work rather than a single accomplishment. Eliminate the Toledo games, the Auburn beat downs, the brain farts that cost us the MS game in 2015, and the second half no shows against VT and Mizzou. Do that, and get the Aggie monkey off our backs and we are in a position to accomplish some of the bigger things. All in all, the confidence that we can be competitive with anyone on any given day goes a long way to foster fanbase approval.
So going by this explanation we must win 9-10 games a year.  There are always going to be "what ifs" in any season with losses.  There are going to be beat downs but also be games you win that you shouldn't.  There are going to be "brain farts" but also moments of excellence that lead to wins. This right here is all part of what make sports so great at any level (yes even the pros have this).  There will only be a handful of teams at the end of the year that look back and say man that was a great season and we played flawless. Those are the few that have a chance to win the national title.  All others will be spending time, looking back and pondering "man if only.."  The problem here is that people can't accept this and always want someone to blame and think that the exception (playing flawless) should be the norm.    If you take the games you listed and we play those "the way you think we should play" then we would be contending for the national championship every year. 
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