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Author Topic: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List  (Read 2283 times)

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wikipedia brown

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2017, 11:57:44 pm »

Hjalte's pure athleticism could put him on that list. I think we will see the game slow down for him this year. He is gonna be a great one for sure
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WilsonHog

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2017, 07:38:01 am »

Let me see if I get this.

We have a Razorback player who receives some pre-season recognition, and posters claiming to be Razorback "fans" criticize him?

Some of y'all better get busy Googling "Razorback message boards," because you're going to need another one if this keeps up. For that matter, perhaps you could slink on over to an Ole Miss or maybe LSU or Auburn board.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 07:55:08 am by WilsonHog »
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2017, 07:41:27 am »

Yeah, that isn't a nice thing to say and you don't know that to be true. I will agree however, that I find that a bit puzzling. Someone on the Football Writers Association of America apparently thinks he is pretty good and you know they can pick from any Offensive or Defensive Lineman in the country, so that is a pretty large list to pick from even with a starting list.

If Anderson gets him under control he is nasty enough to be a very deadly guard. The type that farts on you as he climbs out of the pile. Nasty.  ;D
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2017, 07:44:27 am »

Guilty of waxing poetic.  Yes, Kirkland had a bad wheel a time or two.

Wasn't Kirkland a guard when Skip was LT?
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2017, 07:46:22 am »

Do you know the blocking assignments for each OLineman, TEs, and RBs on each play?  Do you know that we had issues at RG that forced Ragnow to slide to his right the first 3/4 of the season, widening the A and B gap on the left side?  If you knew that, you might also know that Froholdt graded out comparable to the other Olineman except for Ragnow.  No one compares to Ragnow.  When the size of the gaps on either side widen, the TE doesn't chip so the LT has to slide left and the RB doesn't fill inside, a 3 technique and/or the LB behind them run free.  Hjalte needs to be better, but TEs & RBs need to do their part.

Now this is HV at its best. Appreciate it.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2017, 07:48:51 am »

You apparently have a problem with comprehension of that which is posted here and particularly in this case when it is posted by someone who knows quite a lot about this particular subject. If you knew anything you would have grasped what he was attempting to explain as to why some of those gaps came completely open. It isn't always the sole fault of the O-Line when the QB gets drilled. And, you didn't mention anyone else in the post that Fan responded to above, so yes, your post was directed solely at Froholdt.

Or he could have just said "thanks for providing info I didn't know." And left it at that.  ;)
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2017, 07:58:13 am »

Let me see if I get this.

We have a Razorback player who receives some pre-season recognition, and posters claiming to be Razorback "fans" criticize him?

Some of y'all better get busy Googling "Razorback message boards," because you're going to need another one if this keeps up.

Thanks. This board use to have a lot more knowledgable posters. We still have some good ones, but some left because the few dicks who want to argue only.

I miss those that left and appreciate the ones that are here now. For a way out of stater, I appreciate the knowledge these guys bring. I cannot pickup the local paper or turn on the tv to hear about the Hogs in the off season.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2017, 08:01:11 am »

Wasn't Kirkland a guard when Skip was LT?

At least I think that he was in that game that I mentioned. As I recall, LG, maybe?
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2017, 08:08:31 am »

At least I think that he was in that game that I mentioned. As I recall, LG, maybe?

That was the way I remember. Kirkland moved to tackle the next year preparing him for a potential NFL career. And protect our QB along the way.  ;)
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gchamblee

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2017, 08:51:26 am »

Do you know the blocking assignments for each OLineman, TEs, and RBs on each play?  Do you know that we had issues at RG that forced Ragnow to slide to his right the first 3/4 of the season, widening the A and B gap on the left side?  If you knew that, you might also know that Froholdt graded out comparable to the other Olineman except for Ragnow.  No one compares to Ragnow.  When the size of the gaps on either side widen, the TE doesn't chip so the LT has to slide left and the RB doesn't fill inside, a 3 technique and/or the LB behind them run free.  Hjalte needs to be better, but TEs & RBs need to do their part.

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wildhogman

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2017, 09:12:45 am »

So, a person has to have a son on the team to say anything about them? I'm not allowed to criticize the play of certain players? People like you are the ones that are okay with losing by 53 points.

All I've said is Froholdt has had many missed blocks and that's a fact. Meanwhile, some on here try and say it was "by design."
And its been explained to you over and over and over and over and over how it was possible that some of it wasn't his fault. Your sliding the center over to cover a guard with a bad wheel, expecting a true soph first time playing offense line to cover a wider gap and take on even more responsibilities. Its a wonder he didn't end the season with his confidence destroyed. Kinda like Brandon in his first year.  How did his Jr and Sr years turns out? 
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ricepig

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2017, 09:34:15 am »

That was the way I remember. Kirkland moved to tackle the next year preparing him for a potential NFL career. And protect our QB along the way.  ;)

Correct, Kirkland and Skipper both started at guard as freshmen, their first start was against aTm.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2017, 05:19:12 pm »

Correct, Kirkland and Skipper both started at guard as freshmen, their first start was against aTm.

Yep. I remember because one game the commentator was saying how good Kirklands feet are and he could play guard or tackle.

Now considering he was an undrafted player making an NFL squad shows how good he was. Possibly battling for a starting position shows how special.

As CBB said, wish he has stayed one more year and not left so much money in the table.
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2017, 04:12:35 am »

All completely true... the kid has god given talent to put himself in a position to start in the SEC at a position he had never played in a sport that he didn't play until moving to the US to play said sport in HS.  Not bad for a defensive tackle...

Maybe them putting him on the watchlist is an indication that they see his potential.  It's only puzzling that he is on the list based on last years learning curve.  Would love to see him end up in the NFL... beginning a pipeline of Viking players to Arkansas from the Scandinavian countries.   

While they're still Viking at least.
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Dtechman

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2017, 08:51:24 am »

And its been explained to you over and over and over and over and over how it was possible that some of it wasn't his fault. Your sliding the center over to cover a guard with a bad wheel, expecting a true soph first time playing offense line to cover a wider gap and take on even more responsibilities. Its a wonder he didn't end the season with his confidence destroyed. Kinda like Brandon in his first year.  How did his Jr and Sr years turns out?

I'm tired of all the excuses for this guy. Not attacking him, just stating facts. The kid whiffed on more plays than I could count last year. And the excuse to let his guy blow by and chip the line backer doesn't fly either. After reading this thread I rewatched some game film to affirm my opinion. There were multiple plays where he never touched a defender, not a lineman or backer. He would turn around an throw his arms around in frustration, because he knew he whiffed or made the wrong read. This can not be explained by a guy with an bad wheel on the other side. 
He has all the physical gifts for the position and I think he will do better this year, but let's not try to explain his failures away with schemes or other weaknesses on the line.

I do not have any inside knowledge, or a kid on the team but that doesn't mean my eyes don't see what they see. I played left tackle in high school and college so I do have a good working understanding of line play.

As for the bad wheel on the right side of the line. Why was he left in the game? Am I to believe he is a better option with a bum leg than a less talented player that's healthy.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2017, 09:11:20 am »

Let me see if I get this.

We have a Razorback player who receives some pre-season recognition, and posters claiming to be Razorback "fans" criticize him?

Some of y'all better get busy Googling "Razorback message boards," because you're going to need another one if this keeps up. For that matter, perhaps you could slink on over to an Ole Miss or maybe LSU or Auburn board.


I'm tired of all the excuses for this guy. Not attacking him, just stating facts. The kid whiffed on more plays than I could count last year. And the excuse to let his guy blow by and chip the line backer doesn't fly either. After reading this thread I rewatched some game film to affirm my opinion. There were multiple plays where he never touched a defender, not a lineman or backer. He would turn around an throw his arms around in frustration, because he knew he whiffed or made the wrong read. This can not be explained by a guy with an bad wheel on the other side. 
He has all the physical gifts for the position and I think he will do better this year, but let's not try to explain his failures away with schemes or other weaknesses on the line.

I do not have any inside knowledge, or a kid on the team but that doesn't mean my eyes don't see what they see. I played left tackle in high school and college so I do have a good working understanding of line play.

As for the bad wheel on the right side of the line. Why was he left in the game? Am I to believe he is a better option with a bum leg than a less talented player that's healthy.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2017, 09:36:30 am »

What's your point with the quotes? I need to find another board now because I agree that he made numerous mistakes? I didn't attack him or call him names. Get off your high horse. This is a message board where we discuss razorback football. Good and bad are open for discussion.

I bet you are one of the sunshine pumpers that beat your chest over a 6-6 record. Guess what, everyone doesn't get a trophy and the only way you get better is to recognize your shortcomings and address them.
Denial and protectionism does not a better team make.

Take a deep breath, friend. Just letting you know, before you went on, what a Board Administrator had posted with regard to the negativity and criticism about a Razorback player (Froholdt) who had been selected by Football Writers for pre-season recognition. And what do you do? Come back with childish shots at me? Real level headed amigo.
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oldhawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2017, 09:40:12 am »

I'm tired of all the excuses for this guy. Not attacking him, just stating facts. The kid whiffed on more plays than I could count last year. And the excuse to let his guy blow by and chip the line backer doesn't fly either. After reading this thread I rewatched some game film to affirm my opinion. There were multiple plays where he never touched a defender, not a lineman or backer. He would turn around an throw his arms around in frustration, because he knew he whiffed or made the wrong read. This can not be explained by a guy with an bad wheel on the other side. 
He has all the physical gifts for the position and I think he will do better this year, but let's not try to explain his failures away with schemes or other weaknesses on the line.

I do not have any inside knowledge, or a kid on the team but that doesn't mean my eyes don't see what they see. I played left tackle in high school and college so I do have a good working understanding of line play.

As for the bad wheel on the right side of the line. Why was he left in the game? Am I to believe he is a better option with a bum leg than a less talented player that's healthy.

Could be that attention is just focused on Froholdt in this thread.  In reviewing film did you pay as close attention to other linemen on each play as you did Froholdt?  As has been suggested by others, perhaps improved play by the other guard position would have allowed Ragnow to "help" on the left side more, thereby not leaving Froholdt on an island so much.

Speaking of facts, it is also a fact that Froholdt has been put on a watch list for possible post-season honors, as determined by people outside of the Razorback family.  It is also a fact that the coaching staff thought enough of his play (and his potential) to continue to start him throughout the season.  It has been stated that, other than Ragnow, Froholdt graded out as high as any other lineman.  And regarding missed plays, I would be disappointed if he was not frustrated when he missed a block.  I would also suspect that Froholdt's expectations for better line play are much higher than ours, and that he is doing everything he can to improve the parts of his game that the coaches have indicated must get better.

Seems like some are jumping on the bandwagon to criticize Froholdt more than others who are just as culpable.  All of this simply because the young man has been identified as someone to watch for possible Outland Trophy consideration?

Differing opinions and perspectives----and mine is no more informed than yours, just different.

     
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WilsonHog

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2017, 09:54:38 am »

I bet you are one of the sunshine pumpers that beat your chest over a 6-6 record.

So you thought the best approach was to start making it personal with a Mod?

Not a prudent move.
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Dtechman

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2017, 10:25:32 am »

Could be that attention is just focused on Froholdt in this thread.  In reviewing film did you pay as close attention to other linemen on each play as you did Froholdt?  As has been suggested by others, perhaps improved play by the other guard position would have allowed Ragnow to "help" on the left side more, thereby not leaving Froholdt on an island so much.

Speaking of facts, it is also a fact that Froholdt has been put on a watch list for possible post-season honors, as determined by people outside of the Razorback family.  It is also a fact that the coaching staff thought enough of his play (and his potential) to continue to start him throughout the season.  It has been stated that, other than Ragnow, Froholdt graded out as high as any other lineman.  And regarding missed plays, I would be disappointed if he was not frustrated when he missed a block.  I would also suspect that Froholdt's expectations for better line play are much higher than ours, and that he is doing everything he can to improve the parts of his game that the coaches have indicated must get better.

Seems like some are jumping on the bandwagon to criticize Froholdt more than others who are just as culpable.  All of this simply because the young man has been identified as someone to watch for possible Outland Trophy consideration?

Differing opinions and perspectives----and mine is no more informed than yours, just different.

   

Thank you sir.  I can respect a post like this.  I fully believe he is incredibly talented and will do well. It just rubs me the wrong way when people start railing on folks who critique his play. I didn't see any personal attacks by these folks so it upsets me how they and I were immediately threatened with the ban hammer.

I'm proud he has been added to the award watch list. That does not change the history of his play from last year. It also should not stop us from discussing it as long as there aren't any personal attacks on the kid like he sucks, or has no talent etc.

Surely people understand the difference
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oldhawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2017, 10:43:57 am »

You made it personal not me.  You posted a quote stating I should find another board over critiquing a player, not attacking them.

Point out one thing I said that isn't true.  Point out one thing I said that would qualify as an attack.

You made this bed not me.

Just because you are a mod doesn't mean you get to make threats when you see something you don't like.

I've been on this board since inception, I know the rules and broke none of them.

Back to the topic at hand:

Do you think that Froholdt should not be on the Outland trophy watchlist for the coming season?
Who do you think would have done a better job at left guard this past year than Froholdt?
Again I ask if, during your film review, you looked as closely at the play of other lineman as you did Froholdt?
And how did their play compare to his (with the obvious exception of Ragnow)?
Why do you think the coaches continued to start him game after game if his play was unacceptable?
Other than Ragnow, what other positives about the line do you see for the upcoming season?
Based upon your film review, who do you think should replace Froholdt as left guard for the 2017 season?
What are your general prognostications for line play for the upcoming season?

Similarly, I have been a member of this board since very close to its inception, and evidently like you have been more of a "read more, post less" member.  However the perceived animosity and contentious get tiring sometimes, so I take vacations from the board from time to time.  Nevertheless, I do like opinions of informed posters.

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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2017, 10:49:01 am »

There has been a lot of venom shot around in this thread.  Some by me, some at me and others.  I discussed what was going on last night with my son and he told me something everyone, again my self included, should remember and take to heart.

 "Do you really think anyone that's really part of the program loses any sleep over what a bunch of people type on a message board? We're too busy working." 

Funny how the 19 year old had a better grasp than than all of us adults.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:12:44 am by FANONTHEHILL »
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2017, 11:33:22 am »

There has been a lot of venom shot around in this thread.  Some by me, some at me and others.  I discussed what was going on last night with my son and he told me something everyone, again my self included, should remember and take to heart.

 "Do you really think anyone that's really part of the program loses any sleep over what a bunch of people type on a message board? We're too busy working." 

Funny how the 19 year old had a better grasp than than all of us adults.

I'm glad that they don't take the time to read this board. Some have, some recruits have and didn't like it. And some parents, uncles, aunt's, etc. have and they didn't like it. I wouldn't either if I were in their shoes.
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WilsonHog

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #73 on: July 16, 2017, 11:44:21 am »

There has been a lot of venom shot around in this thread.  Some by me, some at me and others.  I discussed what was going on last night with my son and he told me something everyone, again my self included, should remember and take to heart.

 "Do you really think anyone that's really part of the program loses any sleep over what a bunch of people type on a message board? We're too busy working." 

Funny how the 19 year old had a better grasp than than all of us adults.

Very true.

I can contribute all of the money I can possibly afford to the RF, buy season tickets for years on end, buy all of the hats and t-shirts I can wear, and attend or watch every game played...and yet still I am - at best - a spectator and commentator. By definition, an outsider in comparison to the players and coaches who are doing the real work at hand. It's my entertainment, there life.

All of the comments on a message board, on talk radio, on Twitter, are white noise. As Shakespeare wrote, "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."
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wildhogman

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #74 on: July 16, 2017, 12:03:59 pm »

I'm tired of all the excuses for this guy. Not attacking him, just stating facts. The kid whiffed on more plays than I could count last year. And the excuse to let his guy blow by and chip the line backer doesn't fly either. After reading this thread I rewatched some game film to affirm my opinion. There were multiple plays where he never touched a defender, not a lineman or backer. He would turn around an throw his arms around in frustration, because he knew he whiffed or made the wrong read. This can not be explained by a guy with an bad wheel on the other side. 
He has all the physical gifts for the position and I think he will do better this year, but let's not try to explain his failures away with schemes or other weaknesses on the line.

I do not have any inside knowledge, or a kid on the team but that doesn't mean my eyes don't see what they see. I played left tackle in high school and college so I do have a good working understanding of line play.

As for the bad wheel on the right side of the line. Why was he left in the game? Am I to believe he is a better option with a bum leg than a less talented player that's healthy.
I was going to reply to you, but instead went and looked at your post history. I always find it interesting on certain posters to get an idea of their train of thought and perspective, or in some cases, agenda. Good day to you
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HamSammich

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2017, 01:06:32 pm »

I know skipper is a favorite here so I'm going to say this and then you can burn me...

Skipper did our LGs NO favors last year. You guys really should rewatch games and focus on position groups. I do this for every SEC game during the summers.

Truths- Froholdt didn't look good last year. You can see the potential spewing out of him. And skipper leaving will actually help him.


This list isn't a Willy nilly  list. He made it for a reason.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2017, 01:26:30 pm »

I know skipper is a favorite here so I'm going to say this and then you can burn me...

Skipper did our LGs NO favors last year. You guys really should rewatch games and focus on position groups. I do this for every SEC game during the summers.

Truths- Froholdt didn't look good last year. You can see the potential spewing out of him. And skipper leaving will actually help him.


This list isn't a Willy nilly  list. He made it for a reason.

I don't think that they intended to have Skipper at LT. I think he was going to be on the right side last season, until Kirkland, in an unanticipated move, signed with an Agent before Bielema could get to his house to talk to he and his parents. Kirkland was slated to be the LT last season, so Skipper had to trade sides. Part of what hurt Froholdt was not having better depth at RG and then having to keep a really injured Raulerson playing RG on a bad wheel. He needed help at times and that is why Ragnow had to slide right to help. You had Skipper with his hands full with speed rushers at LT so this left a young and inexperienced LG to cover not one gap, but two. Add in missed blocks by other people not on the O-Line and it is easy to see how the young man could fail, and he did at times.

I'm happy for him and the program that has been named to the list. I'll admit it surprised me, but I'm very happy for him and his family, I know they are proud. I think he will be vastly improved this season.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2017, 05:23:51 pm »

There has been a lot of venom shot around in this thread.  Some by me, some at me and others.  I discussed what was going on last night with my son and he told me something everyone, again my self included, should remember and take to heart.

 "Do you really think anyone that's really part of the program loses any sleep over what a bunch of people type on a message board? We're too busy working." 

Funny how the 19 year old had a better grasp than than all of us adults.

Surely he was not talking about me. Can you please ask him as I bet the team listens to what Chi has to post. I'm positive of it.  ;)
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2017, 09:16:52 am »

If Froholdt can continue to grow in his position the offensive line can be very good. From what I've seen last season Ragnow and Gibson are the best two offensive lineman on the team. In the Florida game there where times that Gibson dominated.
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2017, 02:53:29 pm »

As a lineman in my playing days, on a lot of plays my men to block wasn't the DT or DE in front of me but it was the MLB or the OLB.

That is fact right there.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2017, 07:39:32 pm »

If Froholdt can continue to grow in his position the offensive line can be very good. From what I've seen last season Ragnow and Gibson are the best two offensive lineman on the team. In the Florida game there where times that Gibson dominated.

He was well motivated. Being a big ole boy don't hurt either ;)
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Poppa Tart

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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2017, 07:49:27 pm »

Is anyone else not ecstatic that we have another player that really no one expected who could wind up being a superstar next season?

I was already excited about Allen, Whaley, (fill in the blank) at TE, Ragnow, Wallace, and Cornelius (along with a number of freshmen) on O who I expect to have special seasons. Now Froholdt comes out of nowhere. I love it!
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Re: Two Offensive Linemen Named to Outland Trophy Watch List
« Reply #82 on: July 17, 2017, 08:04:00 pm »

I don't think that they intended to have Skipper at LT. I think he was going to be on the right side last season, until Kirkland, in an unanticipated move, signed with an Agent before Bielema could get to his house to talk to he and his parents. Kirkland was slated to be the LT last season, so Skipper had to trade sides. Part of what hurt Froholdt was not having better depth at RG and then having to keep a really injured Raulerson playing RG on a bad wheel. He needed help at times and that is why Ragnow had to slide right to help. You had Skipper with his hands full with speed rushers at LT so this left a young and inexperienced LG to cover not one gap, but two. Add in missed blocks by other people not on the O-Line and it is easy to see how the young man could fail, and he did at times.

I'm happy for him and the program that has been named to the list. I'll admit it surprised me, but I'm very happy for him and his family, I know they are proud. I think he will be vastly improved this season.

Is anyone else not ecstatic that we have another player that really no one expected who could wind up being a superstar next season?

I was already excited about Allen, Whaley, (fill in the blank) at TE, Ragnow, Wallace, and Cornelius (along with a number of freshmen) on O who I expect to have special seasons. Now Froholdt comes out of nowhere. I love it!

I am.
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