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Author Topic: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?  (Read 1274 times)

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CFB_Fanatic

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Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« on: July 10, 2017, 03:15:30 am »

When questioning whether you keep or fire a coach? I don't see CBB finishing better than 4th in the West behind Bama, LSU, and Auburn until Saban retires, and by the looks of it that could be another 25 years........

But if he still wins 8-10 games (including the bowl game) a year is he safe? Do the fans get fed up (like LSU) and want him fired because we aren't competing for the division yearly? Seems if that's the case Bret might not want to settle into that nursery too much
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 04:11:32 am »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 08:27:56 am »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?

I agree.  Very difficult in the SEC to maintain 7+ win seasons or at least it has been for us.  We need recruiting to remain at least top 30 and to not get any key injuries.  We have been very lucky keeping our  starting QB well considering he is getting hit on almost every pass attempt.  We need that to continue.  For some reason we do not seem to have a back up QB groomed until after one graduates.

I think both records are equally important and usually go hand in hand.  We usually have 3 give me non conference wins so that means we have to win 4 or more sec games.  Might be hard for us.

 I think to win 5 or more sec games consistently we need to sign more 4 star kids and get more recruiting rankings in the top 20.   Maybe every other year.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:50:35 am by nwahogfan1 »
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RazorWest

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 09:10:54 am »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?

Eight was our average since going to 12 games before Bielama got here.  So Everyone?
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texas tush hog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 09:32:47 am »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?


I believe that would be Bobby Petrino.
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tusked

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2017, 10:09:04 am »

Both
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2017, 11:25:33 am »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?

So if he wins 8 games for the next 3 straight years and finishes 4th or lower in the SEC he's golden?

Idk man. I think fans would be ready to move on
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2017, 11:33:00 am »

So if he wins 8 games for the next 3 straight years and finishes 4th or lower in the SEC he's golden?

Idk man. I think fans would be ready to move on

I said 8-10, there is some margin in there for error. LOL

1 guess I should have explained that I expected there to be 10 win seasons mixed in.

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Wildhog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 11:35:39 am »

Overall.
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Piggfoot

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 11:40:32 am »

There are obviously win focused fans. Everyone loves to win but the people employing Coach Bielema will be factoring in many other aspects in his retention.
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870hogfan

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 11:43:15 am »

Another agenda thread...
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RyanMallettsEgo

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 11:53:04 am »

When questioning whether you keep or fire a coach? I don't see CBB finishing better than 4th in the West behind Bama, LSU, and Auburn until Saban retires, and by the looks of it that could be another 25 years........

But if he still wins 8-10 games (including the bowl game) a year is he safe? Do the fans get fed up (like LSU) and want him fired because we aren't competing for the division yearly? Seems if that's the case Bret might not want to settle into that nursery too much

So, what's your realistic expectation?


There's a keyword in there.
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robs4516

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 12:05:18 pm »

I have no agenda, but I feel the SEC record is more important when discussing coach longevity. With the way most schools schedule, you're pretty much guaranteed 3 wins OOC, and you'd like to think you have a decent chance of winning the 4th one. So, in that scenario, how you compete against your conference brethren is more meaningful in my opinion.

As I said, I have no agenda, and feel that CBB is doing a pretty good job of getting the program where it needs to be. I do think he's at the point where he needs to have a winning conference record going forward.
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hawganatic

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2017, 12:08:47 pm »

Since there are at least three wins built into every season, I'm going to say SEC record.  Overall record can be manipulated by how the school schedules for out of conference.  Conference schedule the school has no control over, so it's a better barometer for the program's health.

Outside of that, you can't be a top tier team if you aren't at least competing for your conference every year.   You aren't going to compete for your conference by dropping 4+ games every year.
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colbs

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2017, 12:09:46 pm »


I believe that would be Bobby Petrino.
His bottom was 5.
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hawganatic

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2017, 12:22:20 pm »

So, what's your realistic expectation?


There's a keyword in there.

My REALISTIC expectation is that the coaching staff and department keep striving for great, and not settle into the mindset of "we are just Arkansas."

If something isn't working, change it.  If something isn't winning, replace it with something better.  Provide the coaching staff with every resource possible to bring in the best coaching staff and players that are willing to come to Arkansas.   Win or lose, never stop TRYING to be great.

We had a lot of problems on defense the last two season, so we have a new coordinator and a new scheme.  That tells me Beliema hasn't settled into the "this is the best we can do" mentality so I'm good with him right now.  If he settles into being happy with 4 win conferece records and stops trying to improve, I'm going to want him gone.

We may never make it up to that upper echelon of college football, but the second we stop trying is the second we need to start making changes at the top.
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GuvHog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 12:24:36 pm »

If he wins 8-10 Games per years?   Of course he's safe.  I would accept 7-11 better though.  A 10-11 win season ever 4 years would be great as long as the bottom was 7.  Who was the last coach to do that?

This is CBB's 5th year at Arkansas. Sorry, 7 regular season wins would not be acceptable. That would probably get him another year and then he'd probably have to have a BIG 2018 season to keep his job.
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GuvHog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 12:25:57 pm »

His bottom was 5.

In his first season and with the squad he inherited, winning that many was surprising.
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colbs

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 12:29:47 pm »

In his first season and with the squad he inherited, winning that many was surprising.
That wasn't meant as a knock-the question was when is the last coach wins went as high as 11 and low as 7 every 4 years. If BP was here one more year then you could probably name him.
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GuvHog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2017, 12:33:13 pm »

That wasn't meant as a knock-the question was when is the last coach wins went as high as 11 and low as 7 every 4 years. If BP was here one more year then you could probably name him.

Understood. I was just making a point and didn't think your reply was meant as a knock.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2017, 01:37:52 pm »

Another agenda thread...

Nope. Love CBB and hope he gets the job done. If he doesn't I'm prepared to move on. This thread was born because I was asking myself what is good enough for the fan base to accept? At some point you reach Mark Richt syndrome, but for say the next 5 years....is 8 to 10 wins enough without ever winning the SEC West? Say we go 10-3 to 8-5 but lose to the same SEC West teams yealry (Bama, Auburn, LSU specifically) how long does CBB survive? More than 5 years?

For me it's a hard question to answer
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Wildhog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2017, 01:41:45 pm »

Nope. Love CBB and hope he gets the job done. If he doesn't I'm prepared to move on. This thread was born because I was asking myself what is good enough for the fan base to accept? At some point you reach Mark Richt syndrome, but for say the next 5 years....is 8 to 10 wins enough without ever winning the SEC West? Say we go 10-3 to 8-5 but lose to the same SEC West teams yealry (Bama, Auburn, LSU specifically) how long does CBB survive? More than 5 years?

For me it's a hard question to answer

If he wins 8-10 games/year, he should have a giant statue of him built outside RRS.
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BigE_23

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2017, 01:45:41 pm »

The bottom line, whether we like or not, is that if CBB averages 7-8 wins a year he will have a job here for as Long as he wants it...as Long as his players keep their grades up, graduate and don't get arrested.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2017, 01:48:48 pm »

Just my opinion, but since we do not have any real rivals I think the win total is more important than the conference record. There isn't an SEC team we cannot lose to multiple years and it be considered  a fireable offense.
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Wildhog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2017, 01:52:35 pm »

We went 5-3 in conference in 2015.  Still went 7-5.

So yeah.  Overall.
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Youngsta71701

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2017, 01:56:22 pm »

3-1 or better in the non-conference and 4-4 or better in conference is fine with me considering the circumstances. As long as we are competitive in those losses and don't have another Auburn repeat.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2017, 06:25:57 pm »

Without looking it up, I'd say Hatfield.

He didn't need a "this season doesn't count" year.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:38:22 pm by Großer Kriegschwein »
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2017, 06:36:54 pm »

So if he wins 8 games for the next 3 straight years and finishes 4th or lower in the SEC he's golden?

Idk man. I think fans would be ready to move on

Yes. He will still have a job at Arkansas if he won 8 games every year for the next 3 years.  Next year he has a new qb starting so that will buy him 2 more after this year easy unless this year is extremely terrible which I doubt it will be with the schedule being easier. 
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Mike_e

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2017, 06:42:05 pm »

Not so much how many losses or wins but who did you lose to and how along with who did you beat and how?

The real world is seldom black and white.
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2017, 06:49:56 pm »

When questioning whether you keep or fire a coach? I don't see CBB finishing better than 4th in the West behind Bama, LSU, and Auburn until Saban retires, and by the looks of it that could be another 25 years........

But if he still wins 8-10 games (including the bowl game) a year is he safe? Do the fans get fed up (like LSU) and want him fired because we aren't competing for the division yearly? Seems if that's the case Bret might not want to settle into that nursery too much

If we take care of our SEC games then our overall record will be good.

LSU had legit reasons as they field a national championship caliber team each year. We don't. Also each year they would enter the season with a weak QB and I think that wore on the fanbase for Les not fixing the issue.

LSU is in a far better situation than we are. I just want a coach to win the games we should, take one each year that we shouldn't. Field a team that scares anyone who plays us. Even in a loss make them hurt. Make them feel the pain.

Every three or four years have a big push for the West title. That is reasonable for us.

Trying to be at the same level of LSU or Bama every year isn't possible in my eyes.
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Hoginsavga

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2017, 08:21:05 pm »

If we take care of our SEC games then our overall record will be good.

LSU had legit reasons as they field a national championship caliber team each year. We don't. Also each year they would enter the season with a weak QB and I think that wore on the fanbase for Les not fixing the issue.

LSU is in a far better situation than we are. I just want a coach to win the games we should, take one each year that we shouldn't. Field a team that scares anyone who plays us. Even in a loss make them hurt. Make them feel the pain.

Every three or four years have a big push for the West title. That is reasonable for us.

Trying to be at the same level of LSU or Bama every year isn't possible in my eyes.

Placing LSU in the same class as Bama is just pure Crap. Nutt beat LSU when they finished #1, Petrino beat LSU 2 out of 4 and CBB has beat LSU twice. Other teams in the SEC West have also beat LSU when they have also been considered the almighty. Also OOC teams have beat the "great" LSU, remember Whisky last year. 

The big difference between LSU and Bama is coaching. However, in addition to coaching is the star rating of LA recruits which I think are overrated each year. The same is true for Georgia.

In a nutshell, the only team where we have a big disadvantage when we play is Bama because of coaching. Not a knock on CBB because other teams also have the same disadvantage. The guy may be the most disciplined man to ever coach college football.

I always feel like we can beat anyone in the West except Bama. Just for the record I hate Bama and can't wait for Saban to move on.

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hoggusamoungus

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2017, 08:38:00 pm »

"In Bielema’s first 20 games, the Razorbacks went 7–13. Of the teams in the SEC, only Kentucky (4–16) was worse during that period. In Bielema’s last 20 games, the Razorbacks have gone 13–7."


And those first seven wins were all non-conference.  Unfortunately, crapped the bed against Mizzou and VaTech last year or he's 15-5 in his last twenty.  Shows progress to me.
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247Hog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2017, 08:44:41 pm »

   .
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Hoginsavga

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2017, 08:54:32 pm »

   .

Don't quite understand your comments but I agree.
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hoggusamoungus

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2017, 09:00:08 pm »

Don't quite understand your comments but I agree.

It begs for a sophomoric comment about a period.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2017, 09:00:12 pm »

"In Bielema’s first 20 games, the Razorbacks went 7–13. Of the teams in the SEC, only Kentucky (4–16) was worse during that period. In Bielema’s last 20 games, the Razorbacks have gone 13–7."


And those first seven wins were all non-conference.  Unfortunately, crapped the bed against Mizzou and VaTech last year or he's 15-5 in his last twenty.  Shows progress to me.

And those last 2 games(mostly) and other games he let go is why a lot of fans are still unsure if he can get it done.  This year imo is extremely important for him to get fans on his side.  Another 7 win season and people will be pretty much done and eventually. Another 4 to 5 years of the same 6 to 8 wins he will be fired.  So here is hoping for a good season because the schedule is set up for him to get at least 8 regular season wins.
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PonderinHog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2017, 09:13:19 pm »

"In Bielema’s first 20 games, the Razorbacks went 7–13. Of the teams in the SEC, only Kentucky (4–16) was worse during that period. In Bielema’s last 20 games, the Razorbacks have gone 13–7."


And those first seven wins were all non-conference.  Unfortunately, crapped the bed against Mizzou and VaTech last year or he's 15-5 in his last twenty.  Shows progress to me.
Yeah, if crappin' the bed is what you call progress, he's on the right track. 

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Bacons Rebellion

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2017, 09:25:15 pm »

The Citadel and Louisiana Monroe are arguments that really out-of-conference matters more.
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Hawghiggs

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2017, 09:38:18 pm »

The Citadel and Louisiana Monroe are arguments that really out-of-conference matters more.

 Toledo to the list.
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Bebop

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2017, 10:53:04 pm »

He needs a breakout year. Nothing less than 9 wins. It's his 5th season as our coach and it's time to stop underachieving.
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CFB_Fanatic

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2017, 11:10:49 pm »

Toledo to the list.
The Citadel and Louisiana Monroe are arguments that really out-of-conference matters more.

Wow. That throws a wrench into the question.....add ESCAPING LaTech to the list

So, with this is mind, where does losing to a Toledo or LaTech then beating an A&M or Bama get you??

Besides very frustrated......
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PonderinHog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2017, 12:02:29 am »

Rutgers twice, anybody?  Not quite the same as those above, but those two losses hurt.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2017, 02:32:03 am »

This is CBB's 5th year at Arkansas. Sorry, 7 regular season wins would not be acceptable. That would probably get him another year and then he'd probably have to have a BIG 2018 season to keep his job.

Well he hasn't won 11 games yet so I agree 7 won't do it this year. He's had his chances to win at least 10 two times and blowed a bunch of leads and lost to some nobodies. 
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ChitownHawg

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2017, 03:05:32 am »

Placing LSU in the same class as Bama is just pure Crap. Nutt beat LSU when they finished #1, Petrino beat LSU 2 out of 4 and CBB has beat LSU twice. Other teams in the SEC West have also beat LSU when they have also been considered the almighty. Also OOC teams have beat the "great" LSU, remember Whisky last year. 

The big difference between LSU and Bama is coaching. However, in addition to coaching is the star rating of LA recruits which I think are overrated each year. The same is true for Georgia.

In a nutshell, the only team where we have a big disadvantage when we play is Bama because of coaching. Not a knock on CBB because other teams also have the same disadvantage. The guy may be the most disciplined man to ever coach college football.

I always feel like we can beat anyone in the West except Bama. Just for the record I hate Bama and can't wait for Saban to move on.


You could have saved yourself some time by simply posting I agree.  ;)
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2017, 06:21:42 am »

Both

It's so easy anybody should understand that.
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 07:58:48 pm »

Moving target. Depends on who you beat, and who you lose to.
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bennyl08

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 08:59:12 pm »

Placing LSU in the same class as Bama is just pure Crap. Nutt beat LSU when they finished #1, Petrino beat LSU 2 out of 4 and CBB has beat LSU twice. Other teams in the SEC West have also beat LSU when they have also been considered the almighty. Also OOC teams have beat the "great" LSU, remember Whisky last year. 

The big difference between LSU and Bama is coaching. However, in addition to coaching is the star rating of LA recruits which I think are overrated each year. The same is true for Georgia.

In a nutshell, the only team where we have a big disadvantage when we play is Bama because of coaching. Not a knock on CBB because other teams also have the same disadvantage. The guy may be the most disciplined man to ever coach college football.

I always feel like we can beat anyone in the West except Bama. Just for the record I hate Bama and can't wait for Saban to move on.

You hit it on the head with the coaching, but fell short with the overrated rankings. Case in point, the NFL. Bama, UGA, and LSU all have high talent players coming out of HS. Bama has the superior coaching, and thus their players do the best in college. However, in terms of the NFL, they are all pretty even.

This most recent season, LSU and Bama both had 6 players go to the pro bowl and Georgia had 3. The year before, UGA and LSU had 6 and Bama had 1. Florida, despite their struggles on the field in recent years, has still been putting prime talent into the NFL as well.
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MJ2

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2017, 02:09:17 pm »

Overall.

Schedule the weakest teams available and move forward.
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PorkSoda

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2017, 02:43:43 pm »

Conference Record is the most important.

I'm not sure why this is even a question.

8-4 (8-0) > 8-4 (4-4)

no ifs ands or buts
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Wildhog

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Re: Does overall record or SEC record matter more?
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2017, 02:46:20 pm »

Conference Record is the most important.

I'm not sure why this is even a question.

8-4 (8-0) > 8-4 (4-4)

no ifs ands or buts

So were good enough to go 8-0 in the SEC, but lost to an FCS school?
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