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Foot Injuries in college football

Started by Seebs, July 31, 2017, 01:54:21 pm

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Seebs

Just heard Mike Irwin discuss this on the live feed. Many of us (me included) think the squatting of a small bus with one leg may have something to do with this.

This study would show that it occurs everywhere it seems - from the article:

Foot and ankle injuries are common in collegiate football players, affecting 72% of players. Thirteen percent underwent surgical treatment. Trends are seen in the types of injuries for the different player positions.

Source - American Journal of Orthopedics

http://www.mdedge.com/amjorthopedics/article/70921/foot-ankle/incidence-and-variance-foot-and-ankle-injuries-elite-college

So I guess its just life in the big city
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hobhog

other than occasional "turf toe", I don't recall foot injuries like today........

 

hawgon

July 31, 2017, 02:48:48 pm #2 Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 03:11:42 pm by hawgon
Quote from: Seebs on July 31, 2017, 01:54:21 pm
Just heard Mike Irwin discuss this on the live feed. Many of us (me included) think the squatting of a small bus with one leg may have something to do with this.

This study would show that it occurs everywhere it seems - from the article:

Foot and ankle injuries are common in collegiate football players, affecting 72% of players. Thirteen percent underwent surgical treatment. Trends are seen in the types of injuries for the different player positions.

Source - American Journal of Orthopedics

http://www.mdedge.com/amjorthopedics/article/70921/foot-ankle/incidence-and-variance-foot-and-ankle-injuries-elite-college

So I guess its just life in the big city

Not really.  That 72% covers foot AND ANKLE injuries.  Which covers ANKLE SPRAINS which are very common in practically all sports and everyone gets from time to time.

We're talking about two to three injuries a year of the actual foot that require surgery and more or less end seasons.  I've never seen anything like it.

Yeah, just look at the article.  Of the 231 injuries covered in that study, 201 were ankle sprains.  That isn't what we are seeing here.

AirWarren

Quote from: hawgon on July 31, 2017, 02:48:48 pm
Not really.  That 72% covers foot AND ANKLE injuries.  Which covers ANKLE SPRAINS which are very common in practically all sports and everyone gets from time to time.

We're talking about two to three injuries a year if the actual foot that require surgery and more or less end seasons.  I've never seen anything like it.

Yeah, just look at the article.  Of the 231 injuries covered in that study, 201 were ankle sprains.  That isn't what we are seeing here.

Bingo. Ankle sprains is one thing. But it seems like our guys get their whole foot crushed to some extent. Every year.

Part of the razorback curse.

hogsanity

Could it be that the year around training these guys do just puts too much strain on their feet? Is it just bad luck? How many of the injuries are contact injuries?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

ricepig

Quote from: hogsanity on July 31, 2017, 02:57:35 pm
Could it be that the year around training these guys do just puts too much strain on their feet? Is it just bad luck? How many of the injuries are contact injuries?

I seem to remember that JWill was stepped on/someone fell on it, I think Dre was stepped on, not sure on the others.

a0ashle

Keep in mind the possibility that these injuries may have occurred in the past but were deemed as "play through-able" and that increased instances are merely a result of that course of action not being deemed proper.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: ricepig on July 31, 2017, 03:09:04 pm
I seem to remember that JWill was stepped on/someone fell on it, I think Dre was stepped on, not sure on the others.

Dre was during a game, correct?

RazorPiggie

Quote from: hogsanity on July 31, 2017, 02:57:35 pm
Could it be that the year around training these guys do just puts too much strain on their feet? Is it just bad luck? How many of the injuries are contact injuries?

Very possible on the year around training.

bollweevil

How many more foot injuries will our players have to endure before Bielema takes a hard look at the strength and conditioning program. I've never heard of another program with this many foot injuries. The bone structure in the foot can only take so much stress. I agree with Seebs that those one-legged squats with huge amounts of weight may be putting too much stress on the bones. I'm no doctor, but when the same injuries keep happening over and over again, it's time to examine the process and try to determine the cause.

ricepig


ricepig

Quote from: bollweevil on July 31, 2017, 03:26:36 pm
How many more foot injuries will our players have to endure before Bielema takes a hard look at the strength and conditioning program. I've never heard of another program with this many foot injuries. The bone structure in the foot can only take so much stress. I agree with Seebs that those one-legged squats with huge amounts of weight may be putting too much stress on the bones. I'm no doctor, but when the same injuries keep happening over and over again, it's time to examine the process and try to determine the cause.

Why weren't there problems in Wisconsin, same S&C coach??

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

I remember Keon Hatcher breaking his foot in the Toledo game a couple years back. Didnt kody walker break his foot also?
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

 

buldozer

Quote from: ricepig on July 31, 2017, 04:01:49 pm
Why weren't there problems in Wisconsin, same S&C coach??
nutrition possibly

ricepig

Quote from: buldozer on July 31, 2017, 04:59:07 pm
nutrition possibly

Same coach and S&C coach, I doubt nutrition is that much different. All the new guys talk about how Herb had them changing their nutrition programs to a better one. I don't know, it's something, but you can find videos of other schools lifting like us, other schools wear Nike, it's happened on several different playing surfaces, so???

Paul


Hairofthepig

I've Googled football non-contact foot injuries. There are several great articles on the subject.  The shoe manufacturers are definitely aware of it.  There seems to be relationships between the injuries and the number and spacing of cleats, grass vs. synthetic surfaces, flexibility of soles, stiffness of upper leather etc.  It is quite complicated and clearly Nike and others do not have a good handle on the best combinations at this time.

jneal56

Geez! Every year we hear the same thing out of people on here. You do all realize that this game is played 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999% while the players are on their feet right??? So even the less than average intelligence would tell you that the most likely area to be injured would be the one that is used the most. Also, you have different physicians, trainers etc... that will argue where the foot, ankle and leg begin and end. Look at all the bones in the foot/ankle area. The mortis joint is the medical name for the ankle and there are several articulations which translates to moving parts. Majority of you know the more moving parts, the more problems you'll have. It really is that simple.
"At least we are moral"

jneal56

Quote from: Hairofthepig on July 31, 2017, 05:21:37 pm
I've Googled football non-contact foot injuries. There are several great articles on the subject.  The shoe manufacturers are definitely aware of it.  There seems to be relationships between the injuries and the number and spacing of cleats, grass vs. synthetic surfaces, flexibility of soles, stiffness of upper leather etc.  It is quite complicated and clearly Nike and others do not have a good handle on the best combinations at this time.

They will never be able to get a handle on it either. As a Chiropractor I can tell you that as soon as you adjust any joint, then any type of contact such as running, hitting etc can cause a difference in the alignment of those joints. For example, if the shoes are specifically made to each and every athlete, unless they're so tight that none of the joints can move, then there will be a possibility of misalignment as soon as their gait begins. So imagine running, cutting, jumping and collisions galore. Now you can understand, or at least I hope you can, why these injuries happen at times. It amazes me that we don't see them MORE often.
"At least we are moral"

98hogs

I would love to see a study on natural grass vs. ground up tires and plastic

jneal56

Quote from: Rock City Razorback on July 31, 2017, 06:04:35 pm
I never remember it happening as much as it has in the past 3 years.

Happened during Nutty days and Petrino as well. I'm 37 so I don't remember anything before Nutt's tenure. Wasn't it Knile Davis that it happened to a few times?
"At least we are moral"

HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: jneal56 on July 31, 2017, 09:13:48 pm
Happened during Nutty days and Petrino as well. I'm 37 so I don't remember anything before Nutt's tenure. Wasn't it Knile Davis that it happened to a few times?

Knile was fractured ankles

jneal56

Quote from: HOGINTENNESSEE on July 31, 2017, 09:26:48 pm
Knile was fractured ankles

Look up what the Talus is and where it is located.
"At least we are moral"

TeufelHog

Look guys, no agenda on my part with respect to the foot injuries.  I'm just dumbfounded by the fact that it seems like every year since Knile Davis in 2011 we have lost key players to foot related injuries.  Look, I get it . . . we're dealing with 250-300+ lb. young men who are pummeling, falling on, crawling over, stepping on each other.  I just do not understand the "well it's inevitably going to happen" attitude that seems to exist.

For heaven's sake, redesign the upper/tongue of the cleats to include a flexible deflector or pad, use a softer material or reshape the cleat prongs, check our ankle taping methods to see if they're causing an issue, review our weight-lifting exercises/techniques for possible causal effects, review supplement or nutrition deficiencies related to bone density . . . heck if nothing else, get NIKE to come in and do a study related to their footwear.  These annual foot injuries are just REDONKULOUS. 

 

presidenthog

Quote from: Seebs on July 31, 2017, 01:54:21 pm
Just heard Mike Irwin discuss this on the live feed. Many of us (me included) think the squatting of a small bus with one leg may have something to do with this.

This study would show that it occurs everywhere it seems - from the article:

Foot and ankle injuries are common in collegiate football players, affecting 72% of players. Thirteen percent underwent surgical treatment. Trends are seen in the types of injuries for the different player positions.

Source - American Journal of Orthopedics

http://www.mdedge.com/amjorthopedics/article/70921/foot-ankle/incidence-and-variance-foot-and-ankle-injuries-elite-college

So I guess its just life in the big city

Omfg you are one of those one legged squats conspiracy nuts.

ChitownHawg

I'm pretty sure CBB was asked about this last year. He said there was no correlation between the various foot injuries. As they looked to see if it was something they were doing wrong or equipment related.
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MissippHog

Quote from: TeufelHog on July 31, 2017, 10:16:27 pm
For heaven's sake, redesign the upper/tongue of the cleats to include a flexible deflector or pad, use a softer material or reshape the cleat prongs, check our ankle taping methods to see if they're causing an issue, review our weight-lifting exercises/techniques for possible causal effects, review supplement or nutrition deficiencies related to bone density . . . heck if nothing else, get NIKE to come in and do a study related to their footwear.  These annual foot injuries are just REDONKULOUS.
If we, as fans seem to see a pattern, don't you think the coaches, trainers, doctors, etc. see the same thing?  Just because they don't tell us about it doesn't mean they aren't doing anything.

Hoggish1

Quote from: ricepig on July 31, 2017, 05:01:59 pm
Same coach and S&C coach, I doubt nutrition is that much different. All the new guys talk about how Herb had them changing their nutrition programs to a better one. I don't know, it's something, but you can find videos of other schools lifting like us, other schools wear Nike, it's happened on several different playing surfaces, so???

Bad luck if all the factors are the same.  That said, I would like to see us go back to grass.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: hobhog on July 31, 2017, 02:48:09 pm
other than occasional "turf toe", I don't recall foot injuries like today........

It's gotta be those damn Nike's..............................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Peter Porker

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on July 31, 2017, 04:18:20 pm
I remember Keon Hatcher breaking his foot in the Toledo game a couple years back. Didnt kody walker break his foot also?

Walker broke everything....twice.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Peter Porker

Quote from: presidenthog on July 31, 2017, 11:20:12 pm
Omfg you are one of those one legged squats conspiracy nuts.

amazing ain't it.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Seebs

Quote from: presidenthog on July 31, 2017, 11:20:12 pm
Omfg you are one of those one legged squats conspiracy nuts.

Well, it is known that what the majority believes is always true.

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Pigsknuckles

Jamario Bell anyone? I'm calling it. We are officially snake bit.
"the ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"

Kamkaizen

It seems that on multiple occasions, Arkansas' defensive unit will have a key player get injured either in fall camp or early in the season and it really changes what the unit can accomplish.  With Jamario Bell's injury, it just seems like the cycle never ends.  Sorry to be gloom and doom, but I just wanna see the trend end. 

The OTR

I don't see a trend.  Injuries happen.  Sorry.

Razorfox

I've actually felt that it's happened more with a start offensive player than defensive.  Often times our starting running back.

FANONTHEHILL

Everyone wants to look at what the root cause of the fort fractures.  I've heard it's Ben Herbert's fault.  I've heard it's the year round training.  I've heard it's the way players are taped. I've heard it's too much contact and the feet not being tolerent of that  concussive force pushed down the lower body. I've heard it's not enough contact to prepare the lower half.  I've heard it's the brand of the shoes. 

Take Dre as an example.  I've heard people say he's too big at 230.  He wears Nike shoes. He gets taped too much.  Well, most folks don't know that he suffered the same injury in the spring before his senior year at Fayetteville.  He weighed 205 and played safety.  He broke it in off season training.  Fayetteville is an Under Armour school, so it likely wasn't the shoes.  So how did it happen? Who knows, it just happens. 

I love these players.  I've gotten to know several of them and I'm proud that my son is one of them. Arkansas is a program that recruits the best they can and them develops players.  Part of that is making them bigger, stronger, and faster.  It's the same way your develop a thourghbred horse.  Get as much speed and muscle as you can.  What is the risk? The lower body cannot tolerate more mass and more speed.  That's when horses break down and snap their ankles.  You won't convince me that it's the same thing happening to the long bones (metatarsals) in the player's feet.  It's not the big guys that mostly move in a straight line, it's RBs, LBs, and DBs that have to cut.   The small bones of the foot don't tolerate it. At the same time, you do have to consider the cleats.  What is the first thing players say when  take the cleats out of the box?  They talk about how light they are and how fast they will be in them.  Sacrifice stability and protection for less weight.  The lineman aren't the ones breaking their feet.  They want cleats that have good grip and a solid base. They're also twice as heavy.  All of this is just my opinion.  No scientific basis, an observation.  The main thing is I want to see these guys in the field competing.  I hope Jamario recovers from surgery.  I hope Dre gets going soon. I hope that no more feet give way, but unfortunately, that unlikely.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

hogsanity

The trend is little depth at key spots. Been a problem at AR for a long time.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawgon

If it was a problem of shoes, other schools would have these injuries at the same rate we do.

HamSammich

I am not sold that it's the weight training program.


I'm not even sold that we have an above average foot problem. Someone tally it up and run a statistical model.



But I'll tell you guys this.... I wouldn't be so darn close minded on possibilities.

azhog10

Quote from: hogsanity on August 01, 2017, 10:50:12 am
The trend is little depth at key spots. Been a problem at AR for a long time.
Something CBB has been able to fix.

DoubleReedHawgCaller

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on August 01, 2017, 06:46:36 am
It's gotta be those damn Nike's..............................
Preacher man said it wasn't about the shoes. He said he'll knock your ass out in a pair of flip flops.
A couple female midgets, a few bottles of Wild Irish Rose, and a room at the Trout Inn...... who knows what may happen.....

Youngsta71701

Quote from: hawgon on August 01, 2017, 10:50:18 am
If it was a problem of shoes, other schools would have these injuries at the same rate we do.
A large percentage of colleges wear Nike's. As a matter of fact the exact same design as we do.
"The more things change the more they stay the same"

Sow Lancelot

Quote"...think the squatting of a small bus with one leg ..."

This one went over my head.

Is there a secret meaning here?
"Nec vitia nostra nec remedium tolerare possumus." Livy
Nihil boni sine labore, sic vis pacem, para bellum.

Seebs

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