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The elusive National Championship.

Started by Piggfoot, July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am

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Piggfoot

July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:37:34 pm by Piggfoot
For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.
Since joining the SEC 24 years ago only 12 teams have won . Notably, Geo,UCLA, ND, Penn St, UCLA, Mich St, Wash, Oreg, Miama and Wisconsin are not on the winning list.  From the old SWC only Texas has won.
I'm 71. Will Arkansas win or at least play for the NC before I kick out? I hope so but the chances appear very small.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

bphi11ips

Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

rhames

Quote from: bphi11ips on July 03, 2017, 09:47:00 am
Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year. 

Your timing is off. By the SEC championship we were already out because of the loss to LSU.

USC losing and Mich losing happened a few weeks before the sec championship.


That was a fun year until we self imploded.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

bphi11ips

Quote from: rhames on July 03, 2017, 09:50:12 am
Your timing is off. By the SEC championship we were already out because of the loss to LSU.

USC losing and Mich losing happened a few weeks before the sec championship.


That was a fun year until we self imploded.

My timing isn't off.  UCLA beat USC on December 2, the same day as the SEC Championship Game.  USC started the day ranked 2d.  Their only loss had been a 33-31 upset at Oregon State. Ohio State had beaten Michigan two weeks earlier. The consensus was that USC and Ohio State would play in the BCS NC.

I learned about the UCLA upset on a television standing in the concession line at the game.  You don't forget something like that.  Arkansas had just gone up 21-17 and had momentum.  Urban Meyer then called a ballsy fake punt backed up near his own goal line, and that led to the Reggie Fish fumble.  Like I said, my thinking that we might have a shot at the national championship game lasted about 30 minutes.

Whether we actually had a shot is subject to debate, but for a while it was a reasonable thought.  USC probably put a pin in it the first game of the year, and LSU may have left no doubt.  However, Florida started December 2 ranked 4th.  Michigan was 3rd, but no one seriously thought they'd get a rematch against Ohio State.  Arkansas started the day ranked 8th.  Had they hung on against Florida, they would have been SEC Champion and at least have an argument they should take Florida's spot in line.  As it turned out, Florida stomped Ohio State 41-14 to win the NC. 

The next year LSU won the NC with two losses, one of them at home to Arkansas.  So my 30 minutes of dreaming in Atlanta wasn't that farfetched.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

rhames

Quote from: bphi11ips on July 03, 2017, 10:34:29 am
My timing isn't off.  UCLA beat USC on December 2, the same day as the SEC Championship Game.  USC started the day ranked 2d.  Their only loss had been a 33-31 upset at Oregon State. Ohio State had beaten Michigan two weeks earlier. The consensus was that USC and Ohio State would play in the BCS NC.

I learned about the UCLA upset on a television standing in the concession line at the game.  You don't forget something like that.  Arkansas had just gone up 21-17 and had momentum.  Urban Meyer then called a ballsy fake punt backed up near his own goal line, and that led to the Reggie Fish fumble.  Like I said, my thinking that we might have a shot at the national championship game lasted about 30 minutes.

Whether we actually had a shot is subject to debate, but for a while it was a reasonable thought.  USC probably put a pin in it the first game of the year, and LSU may have left no doubt.  However, Florida started December 2 ranked 4th.  Michigan was 3rd, but no one seriously thought they'd get a rematch against Ohio State.  Arkansas started the day ranked 8th.  Had they hung on against Florida, they would have been SEC Champion and at least have an argument they should take Florida's spot in line.  As it turned out, Florida stomped Ohio State 41-14 to win the NC. 

The next year LSU won the NC with two losses, one of them at home to Arkansas.  So my 30 minutes of dreaming in Atlanta wasn't that farfetched.

But wasn't LSU ranked higher than we were because of the loss?

They were 10-2 also if I remember correctly.

You were right about the USC game. My mistake.


Micagan only had one loss during this time as well. The loss to LSU ruined any chance arkansas had.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

bphi11ips

Quote from: rhames on July 03, 2017, 10:38:19 am
But wasn't LSU ranked higher than we were because of the loss?

They were 10-2 also if I remember correctly.

You were right about the USC game. My mistake.


Micagan only had one loss during this time as well. The loss to LSU ruined any chance arkansas had.

Maybe, but you can't say my reasoning during that 30 minutes when we had a lead and momentum (or for the rest of the game for that matter - it was 31- 28 Florida late) was fantasy.  What probably would have happened with an Arkansas victory would have been an Ohio State-Michigan rematch.  But who knows? 

Arkansas would have had the argument I mentioned above.  There were four teams in the BCS rankings between Arkansas and Florida the morning of December 2.  LSU was 5 and had two losses also.  Arkansas would have won the SEC Championship.  LSU would have said they beat Arkansas AND Florida.  Louisville was next and had only one loss.  They might have been the choice but the Big East might have bumped Michigan or Arkansas in.  Boise State was undefeated but had no victories over ranked opponents and was thus shunned for the championship game.  Notre Dame had two losses, one a week earlier to USC.

The question was not whether Arkansas WOULD have made it with a victory over Florida but whether I was thinking it could be a possibility when I heard the news about UCLA and USC.  I was, it was possible, and my guess is many others thought so, too.  So, to the OP, yes, it's possible.  We came closest since 1964 in 1965, 1969, 1977, 1988, 1998, and 2006.  In any of those years one or two things could have made the difference.  In '65 it was Brittenum's shoulder injury in the first half of the Cotton Bowl.  In '69 it was an interception in the end zone against Texas, or bad calls, or Darrell Royal's luck.  Take your pick.  In '77 it was Earl Campbell.  In '88 it was Atwater's dropped interception.  In '98 it was the Stoernover.  In '06 it was the Fish fumble (or the Mustain benching).

Can Arkansas win another NC?  Why yes!  Yes it can!
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

rhames

Quote from: bphi11ips on July 03, 2017, 11:24:00 am
Maybe, but you can't say my reasoning during that 30 minutes when we had a lead and momentum (or for the rest of the game for that matter - it was 31- 28 Florida late) was fantasy.  What probably would have happened with an Arkansas victory would have been an Ohio State-Michigan rematch.  But who knows? 

Arkansas would have had the argument I mentioned above.  There were four teams in the BCS rankings between Arkansas and Florida the morning of December 2.  LSU was 5 and had two losses also.  Arkansas would have won the SEC Championship.  LSU would have said they beat Arkansas AND Florida.  Louisville was next and had only one loss.  They might have been the choice but the Big East might have bumped Michigan or Arkansas in.  Boise State was undefeated but had no victories over ranked opponents and was thus shunned for the championship game.  Notre Dame had two losses, one a week earlier to USC.

The question was not whether Arkansas WOULD have made it with a victory over Florida but whether I was thinking it could be a possibility when I heard the news about UCLA and USC.  I was, it was possible, and my guess is many others thought so, too.  So, to the OP, yes, it's possible.  We came closest since 1964 in 1965, 1969, 1977, 1988, 1998, and 2006.  In any of those years one or two things could have made the difference.  In '65 it was Brittenum's shoulder injury in the first half of the Cotton Bowl.  In '69 it was an interception in the end zone against Texas, or bad calls, or Darrell Royal's luck.  Take your pick.  In '77 it was Earl Campbell.  In '88 it was Atwater's dropped interception.  In '98 it was the Stoernover.  In '06 it was the Fish fumble (or the Mustain benching).

Can Arkansas win another NC?  Why yes!  Yes it can!

That's the funny thing about people and opinions isn't it?

Now I remember being at BBW in Fayetteville being upset over the USC news because I knew had we taken care of business the week before we were a win a way from being in the NC

If Clemson can win a NC so can arkansas. I hope this is the year where Bret gets it rolling.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

bphi11ips

Quote from: rhames on July 03, 2017, 11:29:51 am
That's the funny thing about people and opinions isn't it?

Now I remember being at BBW in Fayetteville being upset over the USC news because I knew had we taken care of business the week before we were a win a way from being in the NC

If Clemson can win a NC so can arkansas. I hope this is the year where Bret gets it rolling.

My first memory of anything associated with the Razorbacks was the bottle rockets and celebration the night of January 1, 1964. I was almost 3. It's one of those early childhood memories that flashes rather than appears as a whole memory. I clearly remember Nixon and my mother crying in '69.  And the Steve Worster TD and the name Happy Feller.  And my grandmother saying "That Darrell Royal has charisma!"  The rest I remember vividly.  Like 3-17 for 29 yards and a pick 6. Like U.S. Reed's halfcourt shot and Scotty Thurman's three pointer. Like the loss to Texas in the CWS.

That's the funny thing about memory. Something about the Razorbacks triggers an ability in some to remember details that are trivia to most.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

HiggiePiggy

Everyone would love to win a NC, but it doesn't happen often. I just want to see the Razorbacks averaging 8+ wins a year with some 10 and 11 win seasons.
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Exit Pursued by a Boar


Exit Pursued by a Boar

I believe one or more organizations gave us the title after the 77 season. Not a championship we claim though.

EFBAB

Al Boarland

Just keep you eye out for any Arkansas HS phenoms. If you can get 3/4 those within 4 years of each other there is a slim chance.

bphi11ips

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

oldhawg

I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.

Exit Pursued by a Boar

Quote from: oldhawg on July 03, 2017, 01:07:48 pm
I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.
One of my earliest Razorback memories. A win there, with 25 straight victories, the claim would been more than legitimate, and the M in MNC would have been all but erased.

EFBAB

Hogwild

Quote from: Piggfoot on July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am
For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.


Notre Dame was awarded the national title, but they don't claim it.  Notre Dame only claims titles awarded by the AP/Coaches Polls.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Hogwild on July 06, 2017, 12:23:14 pm
Notre Dame was awarded the national title, but they don't claim it.  Notre Dame only claims titles awarded by the AP/Coaches Polls.

While Bama claims it if the Bug-tussle tribune says so......................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

PonderinHog

Quote from: oldhawg on July 03, 2017, 01:07:48 pm
I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.
Wasn't our QB injured early?

bphi11ips

Quote from: PonderinHog on July 06, 2017, 12:29:29 pm
Wasn't our QB injured early?

Yep:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Cotton_Bowl_Classic_(January)

Jon Brittenum separated his shoulder in the first half with the score tied 7-7.  We fumbled 3 plays later leading to LSU's winning touchdown, ending our 22-game winning streak. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

tolerati

It's a shame Brittenaum got hurt.  Had he stayed healthy, would Arkansas won back-to-back National Championships?  We will never know.
"Show me a quarterback who isn't cocky, and I'll show you a quarterback who isn't worth a damn." - Darrell Royal

nesjunk

Quote from: Piggfoot on July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am
For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.

I will defer to you since you were there, but I was under the impression that Arkansas was the only team that really "claimed" the national title in 1964.  They were the ones celebrating in the streets and carried the moniker of "national champions" in the college football world in 1965.  Sure, there were some trophies handed out before the bowl games, but no true college football fan in 1965 had any doubt who the national champions were.

Yes, years later, some people and even athletic programs "claimed" the national title due to certain polls, but does it really matter?  If you didn't celebrate the title when it occurred, did it really even happen?  The Ohio State Buckeyes vacated the 2011 Sugar Bowl victory, but it doesn't change the fact that I left the Superdome disappointed that night.

Hogwild

Quote from: nesjunk on July 11, 2017, 04:57:20 pm
I will defer to you since you were there, but I was under the impression that Arkansas was the only team that really "claimed" the national title in 1964.  They were the ones celebrating in the streets and carried the moniker of "national champions" in the college football world in 1965.  Sure, there were some trophies handed out before the bowl games, but no true college football fan in 1965 had any doubt who the national champions were.

Yes, years later, some people and even athletic programs "claimed" the national title due to certain polls, but does it really matter?  If you didn't celebrate the title when it occurred, did it really even happen?  The Ohio State Buckeyes vacated the 2011 Sugar Bowl victory, but it doesn't change the fact that I left the Superdome disappointed that night.

Unfortunately Bama was named National Champions by the AP and the Coaches, they celebrated and got rings prior to the bowl game



rogersvillemohog

We should claim four National Titles. Other schools claim titles that are much more far fetched than Arkansas' potential claim to four.

1909, finished 7-0. Yale claims the "true" championship this year, there were no true rules to determine a national champion in this era. I believe this team finished with the title "Champions of the South," although that might have been the 1910 team who only lost to Kansas State by a score of 5-0. (The 1910 team I believe might have also had a claim, but seems like a stretch.)

1964, finished 11-0. We all know the story. We split this title with Alabama, but were the only undefeated team in college football.

1965, finished 10-1. While no poll that I know of ever had UA at #1 before the bowls, I say we should claim it anyway. By the Alabama logic, we were undefeated in the regular season, thus we deserve to claim a title.

1977, finished 11-1. After the trouncing of the cheatin' land grabbers, a lower level publication awarded Arkansas it's #1 spot.


Alabama claims 16 titles, Ole Miss claims 3, etc. Arkansas should claim 4 titles imo.
Arkansas Football: It's the players running through the A, Hog Hats, and Big Red. It's more than 70,000 fans calling, "WOO PIG SOOIE!"

Arkansas Football: It's the State of Arkansas banding together behind one team, and a mascot like no other. Those select few who put on the jersey are... chosen. They wear the colors, they pay the price, and they succeed. They are exceptional, they are Razorbacks.

Together we stand as tall as the towers of Old Main. Our memories are etched in stone like names on Senior Walk. And our blood flows Razorbacks Red. For 100 years we've been Hogwild and today we continue the tradition.

We are Arkansas Razorbacks!

moses_007

We might get in the national championship game one of these days.  But I guarantee you it won't be with our current coach.

 

Großer Kriegschwein

Quote from: moses_007 on July 12, 2017, 11:13:26 pm
We might get in the national championship game one of these days.  But I guarantee you it won't be with our current coach.

I don't see Us beating Saban AND Malzahn AND aTm in the same year. We don't really have to do that, but something will have to give.
This is my non-signature signature.

HF#1

I'd like to have a title that Alabama doesn't claim.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

goodguytex

Quote from: bphi11ips on July 03, 2017, 09:47:00 am
Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year.
Leading up to the Arkansas/LSU game in 2011, I really thought we had a great chance at getting to the NC had we beaten LSU. That year they won and played Bama for the NC.

I wonder if not for the distraction of Garrett Uekhman passing away if we could've won. We were actually in control of that game in the 1st half.

DeltaBoy

July 14, 2017, 01:12:41 pm #27 Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:02:27 pm by DeltaBoy
Quote from: Piggfoot on July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am
For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.
Since joining the SEC 24 years ago only 12 teams have won . Notably, Geo,UCLA, ND, Penn St, UCLA, Mich St, Wash, Oreg, Miama and Wisconsin are not on the winning list.  From the old SWC only Texas has won.
I'm 71. Will Arkansas win or at least play for the NC before I kick out? I hope so but the chances appear very small.

Your better off playing the state lottery than hoping for a NC in Football before you die . I gave up any hopes when Bobby got canned. It will take a perfect storm of recruiting nationally a 3 year gold mine of instate talent and the next Bear or Saban running the team.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

DeltaBoy

We are too honest or too bad at cheating with our built in recruiting Disadvantages to win one !
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

TNRazorbacker

Arkansas will not win the National Championship in the foreseeable future. Recruiting is the biggest obstacle. We aren't going to be able to attract talent outside the state of the volume needed to produce a true contender. It must come from inside and it just isn't there. So demographics will have to change considerably to improve recruiting dramatically. Even if that does happen in the most positive direction possible it would take decades to make an impact.

PorkSoda

Quote from: The ColonelHog on July 15, 2017, 11:06:56 pm
Why is this post here?  UA HAS DONE NOTHING TO LEAD ANY FAN TO THINK A NC IS EVEN POSSIBLE SINCE CBP GOT FIRED FOR GOOD REASON!  Stupid OP!
because idly dreaming of national championships in the off season is as close as we are ever going to get
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

Hogwild

Quote from: goodguytex on July 14, 2017, 12:50:15 am
Leading up to the Arkansas/LSU game in 2011, I really thought we had a great chance at getting to the NC had we beaten LSU. That year they won and played Bama for the NC.

I wonder if not for the distraction of Garrett Uekhman passing away if we could've won. We were actually in control of that game in the 1st half.

Was at that game, I wouldn't say we were in control of the game at any point, we never had the lead at the end any of the quarters.
We scored two quick touchdowns to start the 2nd quarter, then were outscored 41-3.  LSU lead by a touchdown at half, and finished the game with twice as many total yards and first downs then we had.

TNRazorbacker

Quote from: Hogwild on July 16, 2017, 03:29:46 pm
Was at that game, I wouldn't say we were in control of the game at any point, we never had the lead at the end any of the quarters.
We scored two quick touchdowns to start the 2nd quarter, then were outscored 41-3.  LSU lead by a touchdown at half, and finished the game with twice as many total yards and first downs then we had.

We had a great team that year, but both Alabama and LSU were 2-3 touchdowns better at least.  So the best we've been in more than 30 years was only a distant third in the SEC. This illustrates the hill we have to climb. A literally perfect string of circumstances would have to occur for us to ever win one.