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Author Topic: The elusive National Championship.  (Read 1514 times)

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Piggfoot

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The elusive National Championship.
« on: July 03, 2017, 09:14:13 am »

For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.
Since joining the SEC 24 years ago only 12 teams have won . Notably, Geo,UCLA, ND, Penn St, UCLA, Mich St, Wash, Oreg, Miama and Wisconsin are not on the winning list.  From the old SWC only Texas has won.
I'm 71. Will Arkansas win or at least play for the NC before I kick out? I hope so but the chances appear very small.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:37:34 pm by Piggfoot »
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2017, 09:47:00 am »

Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year. 
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rhames

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2017, 09:50:12 am »

Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year. 

Your timing is off. By the SEC championship we were already out because of the loss to LSU.

USC losing and Mich losing happened a few weeks before the sec championship.


That was a fun year until we self imploded.
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 10:34:29 am »

Your timing is off. By the SEC championship we were already out because of the loss to LSU.

USC losing and Mich losing happened a few weeks before the sec championship.


That was a fun year until we self imploded.

My timing isn't off.  UCLA beat USC on December 2, the same day as the SEC Championship Game.  USC started the day ranked 2d.  Their only loss had been a 33-31 upset at Oregon State. Ohio State had beaten Michigan two weeks earlier. The consensus was that USC and Ohio State would play in the BCS NC.

I learned about the UCLA upset on a television standing in the concession line at the game.  You don't forget something like that.  Arkansas had just gone up 21-17 and had momentum.  Urban Meyer then called a ballsy fake punt backed up near his own goal line, and that led to the Reggie Fish fumble.  Like I said, my thinking that we might have a shot at the national championship game lasted about 30 minutes.

Whether we actually had a shot is subject to debate, but for a while it was a reasonable thought.  USC probably put a pin in it the first game of the year, and LSU may have left no doubt.  However, Florida started December 2 ranked 4th.  Michigan was 3rd, but no one seriously thought they'd get a rematch against Ohio State.  Arkansas started the day ranked 8th.  Had they hung on against Florida, they would have been SEC Champion and at least have an argument they should take Florida's spot in line.  As it turned out, Florida stomped Ohio State 41-14 to win the NC. 

The next year LSU won the NC with two losses, one of them at home to Arkansas.  So my 30 minutes of dreaming in Atlanta wasn't that farfetched.
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rhames

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 10:38:19 am »

My timing isn't off.  UCLA beat USC on December 2, the same day as the SEC Championship Game.  USC started the day ranked 2d.  Their only loss had been a 33-31 upset at Oregon State. Ohio State had beaten Michigan two weeks earlier. The consensus was that USC and Ohio State would play in the BCS NC.

I learned about the UCLA upset on a television standing in the concession line at the game.  You don't forget something like that.  Arkansas had just gone up 21-17 and had momentum.  Urban Meyer then called a ballsy fake punt backed up near his own goal line, and that led to the Reggie Fish fumble.  Like I said, my thinking that we might have a shot at the national championship game lasted about 30 minutes.

Whether we actually had a shot is subject to debate, but for a while it was a reasonable thought.  USC probably put a pin in it the first game of the year, and LSU may have left no doubt.  However, Florida started December 2 ranked 4th.  Michigan was 3rd, but no one seriously thought they'd get a rematch against Ohio State.  Arkansas started the day ranked 8th.  Had they hung on against Florida, they would have been SEC Champion and at least have an argument they should take Florida's spot in line.  As it turned out, Florida stomped Ohio State 41-14 to win the NC. 

The next year LSU won the NC with two losses, one of them at home to Arkansas.  So my 30 minutes of dreaming in Atlanta wasn't that farfetched.

But wasn't LSU ranked higher than we were because of the loss?

They were 10-2 also if I remember correctly.

You were right about the USC game. My mistake.


Micagan only had one loss during this time as well. The loss to LSU ruined any chance arkansas had.
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 11:24:00 am »

But wasn't LSU ranked higher than we were because of the loss?

They were 10-2 also if I remember correctly.

You were right about the USC game. My mistake.


Micagan only had one loss during this time as well. The loss to LSU ruined any chance arkansas had.

Maybe, but you can't say my reasoning during that 30 minutes when we had a lead and momentum (or for the rest of the game for that matter - it was 31- 28 Florida late) was fantasy.  What probably would have happened with an Arkansas victory would have been an Ohio State-Michigan rematch.  But who knows? 

Arkansas would have had the argument I mentioned above.  There were four teams in the BCS rankings between Arkansas and Florida the morning of December 2.  LSU was 5 and had two losses also.  Arkansas would have won the SEC Championship.  LSU would have said they beat Arkansas AND Florida.  Louisville was next and had only one loss.  They might have been the choice but the Big East might have bumped Michigan or Arkansas in.  Boise State was undefeated but had no victories over ranked opponents and was thus shunned for the championship game.  Notre Dame had two losses, one a week earlier to USC.

The question was not whether Arkansas WOULD have made it with a victory over Florida but whether I was thinking it could be a possibility when I heard the news about UCLA and USC.  I was, it was possible, and my guess is many others thought so, too.  So, to the OP, yes, it's possible.  We came closest since 1964 in 1965, 1969, 1977, 1988, 1998, and 2006.  In any of those years one or two things could have made the difference.  In '65 it was Brittenum's shoulder injury in the first half of the Cotton Bowl.  In '69 it was an interception in the end zone against Texas, or bad calls, or Darrell Royal's luck.  Take your pick.  In '77 it was Earl Campbell.  In '88 it was Atwater's dropped interception.  In '98 it was the Stoernover.  In '06 it was the Fish fumble (or the Mustain benching).

Can Arkansas win another NC?  Why yes!  Yes it can!
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rhames

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 11:29:51 am »

Maybe, but you can't say my reasoning during that 30 minutes when we had a lead and momentum (or for the rest of the game for that matter - it was 31- 28 Florida late) was fantasy.  What probably would have happened with an Arkansas victory would have been an Ohio State-Michigan rematch.  But who knows? 

Arkansas would have had the argument I mentioned above.  There were four teams in the BCS rankings between Arkansas and Florida the morning of December 2.  LSU was 5 and had two losses also.  Arkansas would have won the SEC Championship.  LSU would have said they beat Arkansas AND Florida.  Louisville was next and had only one loss.  They might have been the choice but the Big East might have bumped Michigan or Arkansas in.  Boise State was undefeated but had no victories over ranked opponents and was thus shunned for the championship game.  Notre Dame had two losses, one a week earlier to USC.

The question was not whether Arkansas WOULD have made it with a victory over Florida but whether I was thinking it could be a possibility when I heard the news about UCLA and USC.  I was, it was possible, and my guess is many others thought so, too.  So, to the OP, yes, it's possible.  We came closest since 1964 in 1965, 1969, 1977, 1988, 1998, and 2006.  In any of those years one or two things could have made the difference.  In '65 it was Brittenum's shoulder injury in the first half of the Cotton Bowl.  In '69 it was an interception in the end zone against Texas, or bad calls, or Darrell Royal's luck.  Take your pick.  In '77 it was Earl Campbell.  In '88 it was Atwater's dropped interception.  In '98 it was the Stoernover.  In '06 it was the Fish fumble (or the Mustain benching).

Can Arkansas win another NC?  Why yes!  Yes it can!

That's the funny thing about people and opinions isn't it?

Now I remember being at BBW in Fayetteville being upset over the USC news because I knew had we taken care of business the week before we were a win a way from being in the NC

If Clemson can win a NC so can arkansas. I hope this is the year where Bret gets it rolling.
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2017, 11:47:26 am »

That's the funny thing about people and opinions isn't it?

Now I remember being at BBW in Fayetteville being upset over the USC news because I knew had we taken care of business the week before we were a win a way from being in the NC

If Clemson can win a NC so can arkansas. I hope this is the year where Bret gets it rolling.

My first memory of anything associated with the Razorbacks was the bottle rockets and celebration the night of January 1, 1964. I was almost 3. It's one of those early childhood memories that flashes rather than appears as a whole memory. I clearly remember Nixon and my mother crying in '69.  And the Steve Worster TD and the name Happy Feller.  And my grandmother saying "That Darrell Royal has charisma!"  The rest I remember vividly.  Like 3-17 for 29 yards and a pick 6. Like U.S. Reed's halfcourt shot and Scotty Thurman's three pointer. Like the loss to Texas in the CWS.

That's the funny thing about memory. Something about the Razorbacks triggers an ability in some to remember details that are trivia to most.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 12:06:31 pm »

Everyone would love to win a NC, but it doesn't happen often. I just want to see the Razorbacks averaging 8+ wins a year with some 10 and 11 win seasons.
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exit followed by a boar

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2017, 12:36:21 pm »

That would be 1 January 1965
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exit followed by a boar

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2017, 12:38:34 pm »

I believe one or more organizations gave us the title after the 77 season. Not a championship we claim though.

EFBAB
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Al Boarland

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2017, 12:41:34 pm »

Just keep you eye out for any Arkansas HS phenoms. If you can get 3/4 those within 4 years of each other there is a slim chance.
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2017, 12:59:35 pm »

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oldhawg

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2017, 01:07:48 pm »

I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.
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exit followed by a boar

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2017, 01:47:43 pm »

I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.
One of my earliest Razorback memories. A win there, with 25 straight victories, the claim would been more than legitimate, and the M in MNC would have been all but erased.

EFBAB
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Hogwild

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2017, 12:23:14 pm »

For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.


Notre Dame was awarded the national title, but they don't claim it.  Notre Dame only claims titles awarded by the AP/Coaches Polls.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2017, 12:26:10 pm »

Notre Dame was awarded the national title, but they don't claim it.  Notre Dame only claims titles awarded by the AP/Coaches Polls.

While Bama claims it if the Bug-tussle tribune says so......................
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PonderinHog

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2017, 12:29:29 pm »

I am still chagrinned by the 14-7 loss to a 7-3 LSU team in the Cotton Bowl.  With a victory there, an 11-0 Razorback team could at least have made a legitimate claim to the MNC.
Wasn't our QB injured early?
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bphi11ips

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2017, 02:34:12 pm »

Wasn't our QB injured early?

Yep:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Cotton_Bowl_Classic_(January)

Jon Brittenum separated his shoulder in the first half with the score tied 7-7.  We fumbled 3 plays later leading to LSU's winning touchdown, ending our 22-game winning streak. 
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sevenof400

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2017, 03:37:05 pm »

While Bama claims it if the Bug-tussle tribune says so......................

That's fair enough given the events of '66.
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tolerati

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2017, 02:49:44 pm »

It's a shame Brittenaum got hurt.  Had he stayed healthy, would Arkansas won back-to-back National Championships?  We will never know.
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nesjunk

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2017, 04:57:20 pm »

For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.

I will defer to you since you were there, but I was under the impression that Arkansas was the only team that really "claimed" the national title in 1964.  They were the ones celebrating in the streets and carried the moniker of "national champions" in the college football world in 1965.  Sure, there were some trophies handed out before the bowl games, but no true college football fan in 1965 had any doubt who the national champions were.

Yes, years later, some people and even athletic programs "claimed" the national title due to certain polls, but does it really matter?  If you didn't celebrate the title when it occurred, did it really even happen?  The Ohio State Buckeyes vacated the 2011 Sugar Bowl victory, but it doesn't change the fact that I left the Superdome disappointed that night.
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Hogwild

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2017, 05:33:44 pm »

I will defer to you since you were there, but I was under the impression that Arkansas was the only team that really "claimed" the national title in 1964.  They were the ones celebrating in the streets and carried the moniker of "national champions" in the college football world in 1965.  Sure, there were some trophies handed out before the bowl games, but no true college football fan in 1965 had any doubt who the national champions were.

Yes, years later, some people and even athletic programs "claimed" the national title due to certain polls, but does it really matter?  If you didn't celebrate the title when it occurred, did it really even happen?  The Ohio State Buckeyes vacated the 2011 Sugar Bowl victory, but it doesn't change the fact that I left the Superdome disappointed that night.

Unfortunately Bama was named National Champions by the AP and the Coaches, they celebrated and got rings prior to the bowl game


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rogersvillemohog

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2017, 06:49:14 pm »

We should claim four National Titles. Other schools claim titles that are much more far fetched than Arkansas' potential claim to four.

1909, finished 7-0. Yale claims the "true" championship this year, there were no true rules to determine a national champion in this era. I believe this team finished with the title "Champions of the South," although that might have been the 1910 team who only lost to Kansas State by a score of 5-0. (The 1910 team I believe might have also had a claim, but seems like a stretch.)

1964, finished 11-0. We all know the story. We split this title with Alabama, but were the only undefeated team in college football.

1965, finished 10-1. While no poll that I know of ever had UA at #1 before the bowls, I say we should claim it anyway. By the Alabama logic, we were undefeated in the regular season, thus we deserve to claim a title.

1977, finished 11-1. After the trouncing of the cheatin' land grabbers, a lower level publication awarded Arkansas it's #1 spot.


Alabama claims 16 titles, Ole Miss claims 3, etc. Arkansas should claim 4 titles imo.
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moses_007

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2017, 11:13:26 pm »

We might get in the national championship game one of these days.  But I guarantee you it won't be with our current coach.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2017, 11:41:46 pm »

We might get in the national championship game one of these days.  But I guarantee you it won't be with our current coach.

I don't see Us beating Saban AND Malzahn AND aTm in the same year. We don't really have to do that, but something will have to give.
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HF#1

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2017, 12:31:02 pm »

I'd like to have a title that Alabama doesn't claim.
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goodguytex

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2017, 12:50:15 am »

Who knows? The chances probably got smaller with the playoffs.  On the other hand, who knows when we might have another team with the potential to get to the playoffs?  2006 may be the closest we've been to having a team with that kind of talent and balance. 

I don't really remember thinking much about it.  It was a fleeting thought at the SEC Championship Game when we had a lead on Florida and I saw that UCLA had just defeated USC.  That lasted about 30 minutes. 

Every year about this time I start seeing 10 games or so I think we can win and a couple we can't.  As long as we play hard I enjoy the season, and I really can't think of too many I haven't enjoyed.  It's especially fun when we have a great QB, and I think we have one this year.
Leading up to the Arkansas/LSU game in 2011, I really thought we had a great chance at getting to the NC had we beaten LSU. That year they won and played Bama for the NC.

I wonder if not for the distraction of Garrett Uekhman passing away if we could've won. We were actually in control of that game in the 1st half.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 01:12:41 pm »

For the elite the NC is not as elusive as for others. Arkansas has claim to one in 1964. In that year Alabama and Notre Dame also claimed the title.
Since joining the SEC 24 years ago only 12 teams have won . Notably, Geo,UCLA, ND, Penn St, UCLA, Mich St, Wash, Oreg, Miama and Wisconsin are not on the winning list.  From the old SWC only Texas has won.
I'm 71. Will Arkansas win or at least play for the NC before I kick out? I hope so but the chances appear very small.

Your better off playing the state lottery than hoping for a NC in Football before you die . I gave up any hopes when Bobby got canned. It will take a perfect storm of recruiting nationally a 3 year gold mine of instate talent and the next Bear or Saban running the team.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:02:27 pm by DeltaBoy »
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2017, 05:04:04 pm »

We are too honest or too bad at cheating with our built in recruiting Disadvantages to win one !
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2017, 06:32:36 pm »

Arkansas will not win the National Championship in the foreseeable future. Recruiting is the biggest obstacle. We aren't going to be able to attract talent outside the state of the volume needed to produce a true contender. It must come from inside and it just isn't there. So demographics will have to change considerably to improve recruiting dramatically. Even if that does happen in the most positive direction possible it would take decades to make an impact.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2017, 11:06:56 pm »

Why is this post here?  UA HAS DONE NOTHING TO LEAD ANY FAN TO THINK A NC IS EVEN POSSIBLE SINCE CBP GOT FIRED FOR GOOD REASON!  Stupid OP!
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PorkSoda

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2017, 01:49:04 am »

Why is this post here?  UA HAS DONE NOTHING TO LEAD ANY FAN TO THINK A NC IS EVEN POSSIBLE SINCE CBP GOT FIRED FOR GOOD REASON!  Stupid OP!
because idly dreaming of national championships in the off season is as close as we are ever going to get
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Hogwild

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 03:29:46 pm »

Leading up to the Arkansas/LSU game in 2011, I really thought we had a great chance at getting to the NC had we beaten LSU. That year they won and played Bama for the NC.

I wonder if not for the distraction of Garrett Uekhman passing away if we could've won. We were actually in control of that game in the 1st half.

Was at that game, I wouldn't say we were in control of the game at any point, we never had the lead at the end any of the quarters.
We scored two quick touchdowns to start the 2nd quarter, then were outscored 41-3.  LSU lead by a touchdown at half, and finished the game with twice as many total yards and first downs then we had.
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: The elusive National Championship.
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 03:40:41 pm »

Was at that game, I wouldn't say we were in control of the game at any point, we never had the lead at the end any of the quarters.
We scored two quick touchdowns to start the 2nd quarter, then were outscored 41-3.  LSU lead by a touchdown at half, and finished the game with twice as many total yards and first downs then we had.

We had a great team that year, but both Alabama and LSU were 2-3 touchdowns better at least.  So the best we've been in more than 30 years was only a distant third in the SEC. This illustrates the hill we have to climb. A literally perfect string of circumstances would have to occur for us to ever win one.
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