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Author Topic: Erie has his prayers answered  (Read 1872 times)

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husker71

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Erie has his prayers answered
« on: June 30, 2017, 09:43:44 pm »

Ricky Rubio traded to Utah for a 1st round 2018 pick.  Can anyone say Kyle Lowry or Jeff Teague??
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husker71

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 10:01:43 pm »

today is June 30th and the top 3 topics on PTI were all NBA.  This is one of the most interesting off seasons with nothing bad happening that I can remember.
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Breems

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2017, 01:42:01 pm »

today is June 30th and the top 3 topics on PTI were all NBA.  This is one of the most interesting off seasons with nothing bad happening that I can remember.

Thanks a lot.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2017, 08:55:25 am »

No clue why Minnesota went with Jeff Teague over George Hill. It was also weird to me that Indiana traded Hill for Teague (worse regular season record with Teague vs Hill). Hill is a great two-way player and can fit in any backcourt situation. He's very underrated.
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azhog10

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2017, 09:06:39 am »

No clue why Minnesota went with Jeff Teague over George Hill. It was also weird to me that Indiana traded Hill for Teague (worse regular season record with Teague vs Hill). Hill is a great two-way player and can fit in any backcourt situation. He's very underrated.
Agree, if I'm a GM I'm getting George Hill if I don't have a top 5 PG.
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jry04

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2017, 10:12:16 am »

No clue why Minnesota went with Jeff Teague over George Hill. It was also weird to me that Indiana traded Hill for Teague (worse regular season record with Teague vs Hill). Hill is a great two-way player and can fit in any backcourt situation. He's very underrated.
Part of that worse regular season record had to do with PG13 having one of the worst months of his last few seasons towards the end of the year. In the month of March, PG13 averaged 17 ppg, shot 38% from the field and only 33% from three.

Utah doesn't even want Hill for his asking price ($20Mil+/yr), and Hill wasn't really interested in Minnesota. Teague averaged 15 and 8 this season, with a better assists to turnover ratio, better rebounds per game, and a better FT shooter. They had similar PERs. Teague didn't shoot as well from three this season as Hill, but a year ago when he was surrounded with more talent shot 40% from three.That is closer to the type of talent he will have on this team rather than what he had in Indiana, and regardless he will be an upgrade shooting over Rubio. Thibs will demand effort on defense, which is the one place Hill is better, but it doesn't do you any good if Hill is hurt. Hill has failed to play over 50 games in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and 3 of his last 6. Teague has played over 70 games in 7 of his 8 seasons, with the 1 season being fewer because of the lock out. Teague has averaged over 15 ppg and at least 6 assists per game every season for the last 4 seasons. Hill has only averaged at least 15 ppg twice in his career, and only 5 assists per game once, 3 years ago.

In the playoffs, Teague averaged 17 ppg, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 52% from three on 17 attempts, and 49% from the field against the Cavs.

George Hill averaged 17 ppg, 3 assists, 4 rebounds, 39% from three on 31 attempts, 48% from the field against the Clippers in 7 games, and then had 7 points, 3 assists, 4 rebounds on 3-9 shooting in 28 minutes in game 1 v GSW and didn't touch the floor again.

Teague's numbers have been better in the postseason every year.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 10:22:23 am by jry04 »
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Hawg Red

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2017, 12:51:50 pm »

Part of that worse regular season record had to do with PG13 having one of the worst months of his last few seasons towards the end of the year. In the month of March, PG13 averaged 17 ppg, shot 38% from the field and only 33% from three.

Utah doesn't even want Hill for his asking price ($20Mil+/yr), and Hill wasn't really interested in Minnesota. Teague averaged 15 and 8 this season, with a better assists to turnover ratio, better rebounds per game, and a better FT shooter. They had similar PERs. Teague didn't shoot as well from three this season as Hill, but a year ago when he was surrounded with more talent shot 40% from three.That is closer to the type of talent he will have on this team rather than what he had in Indiana, and regardless he will be an upgrade shooting over Rubio. Thibs will demand effort on defense, which is the one place Hill is better, but it doesn't do you any good if Hill is hurt. Hill has failed to play over 50 games in 2 of his last 3 seasons, and 3 of his last 6. Teague has played over 70 games in 7 of his 8 seasons, with the 1 season being fewer because of the lock out. Teague has averaged over 15 ppg and at least 6 assists per game every season for the last 4 seasons. Hill has only averaged at least 15 ppg twice in his career, and only 5 assists per game once, 3 years ago.

In the playoffs, Teague averaged 17 ppg, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 52% from three on 17 attempts, and 49% from the field against the Cavs.

George Hill averaged 17 ppg, 3 assists, 4 rebounds, 39% from three on 31 attempts, 48% from the field against the Clippers in 7 games, and then had 7 points, 3 assists, 4 rebounds on 3-9 shooting in 28 minutes in game 1 v GSW and didn't touch the floor again.

Teague's numbers have been better in the postseason every year.

Hill has definitely been banged up. I'll give you that. That's the great equalizer, though. He's just a better basketball player than Jeff Teague, though that isn't an insult to Teague. He's a fine player but I think the utility that Hill brings makes him more valuable. He can slide over and legitimately play the 2 and I don't think Teague can do that. We agree Hill is superior on defense. Teague will have the better assist numbers because he's more a true PG but on a team like Minnesota, you have Butler and, to a degree Wiggins, who will dominate the ball. Makes Hill a great fit, IMO, because he can live off the ball if needed. Not sure Teague can do that without losing a lot of effectiveness. Teague has undoubtedly been the better scorer and assist man in his career, but Hill has been the better defender, rebounder, shooter (save for FTs) and more versatile. Comes down to two-way results for me because I think that's what a true contender is going to need.
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jry04

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2017, 12:29:43 pm »

Hill and Z-Bo both going to the Kings. Hill turned down $20 mil/yr to stay in Utah and asked playoff teams who needed a PG for $20+ mil. Signs with the Kings for $19 mil/ yr. Good deal for him, but regardless of talent that is a lot for a guy who usually misses at least 1/3 of the season.
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ErieHog

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2017, 01:41:28 pm »

Ah, finally seeing this thread.

Teague is going to be a major upgrade.  People take for granted that the Wolves will lose offensive creativity, despite Teague being a solid creator-- and completely forget that Rubio is the worst shooter in NBA History.

WORST EVER.    Think about that-- in all the years, of all the shot-chuckers,  he is the worst ever at or above his shot volume.

For perspective--  Rajon Rondo is a notoriously bad shooter for a guard, right?

Rubio would have to hit his first *493* shots next year, to be as good a career shooter as Rajon Rondo.

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husker71

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2017, 05:33:14 pm »

how is it possible that a guy who has been around the top of organized basketball for years cannot shoot??
Today on one show the comment was "cannot score"    so basically Wolves were playing 4 on 5 some of the time.  His passing to me is overrated.  Would much rather have non flashy passer who can score than Rubio.  By the way the Kings got both George Hill and Zach Randolph today.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2017, 05:57:44 pm »

Hill and Z-Bo both going to the Kings. Hill turned down $20 mil/yr to stay in Utah and asked playoff teams who needed a PG for $20+ mil. Signs with the Kings for $19 mil/ yr. Good deal for him, but regardless of talent that is a lot for a guy who usually misses at least 1/3 of the season.

What am I missing?  Why would hill take less money to go to a less competitive team?
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Hawg Red

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 08:10:13 pm »

What am I missing?  Why would hill take less money to go to a less competitive team?

Salt Lake ain't for everyone, I guess.
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ErieHog

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 08:25:04 pm »

how is it possible that a guy who has been around the top of organized basketball for years cannot shoot??
Today on one show the comment was "cannot score"    so basically Wolves were playing 4 on 5 some of the time.  His passing to me is overrated.  Would much rather have non flashy passer who can score than Rubio.  By the way the Kings got both George Hill and Zach Randolph today.


I don't know.   I do know that this should be liberating, particularly for Andrew Wiggins, who lived the life of a slasher who would get crushed by doubles while people played 5 feet off of Rubio.
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daprospecta

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2017, 08:34:35 pm »

how is it possible that a guy who has been around the top of organized basketball for years cannot shoot??
Today on one show the comment was "cannot score"    so basically Wolves were playing 4 on 5 some of the time.  His passing to me is overrated.  Would much rather have non flashy passer who can score than Rubio.  By the way the Kings got both George Hill and Zach Randolph today.
Simple. Laziness.  I have developed a mean shot over the past two years.  Every time I step in a gym, I spend at least 20 minutes shooting.  I know it's much harder to shoot over the most athletic/tallest players in the country but memory muscle is memory muscle.  Practice is all it takes. I followed Steph closely at Davidson, he COULD NOT CREATE HIS OWN SHOT. Through hard work and dedication, his handles got much better.  Some just don't look at the NBA as a job. They are still stuck in "I'm the best around" mentality and don't feel the need to improve.
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EastexHawg

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 09:43:20 am »

how is it possible that a guy who has been around the top of organized basketball for years cannot shoot??

It's one of the great questions of our time, along with "what did Ted Danson see in Whoopi Goldberg?"

There is nothing I hate more than watching so-called basketball players who can't shoot.  Putting the ball in the basket is the most basic skill in the game.  If you can't score you can't win.
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rude1

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2017, 11:46:49 am »

Simple. Laziness.  I have developed a mean shot over the past two years.  Every time I step in a gym, I spend at least 20 minutes shooting.  I know it's much harder to shoot over the most athletic/tallest players in the country but memory muscle is memory muscle.  Practice is all it takes. I followed Steph closely at Davidson, he COULD NOT CREATE HIS OWN SHOT. Through hard work and dedication, his handles got much better.  Some just don't look at the NBA as a job. They are still stuck in "I'm the best around" mentality and don't feel the need to improve.
I don't buy this belief that it boils down to  a guy being lazy. This would say that anyone who puts in the work can become a great shooter, which simply isn't true, whether it be a depth pereception problem or whatever, some people could put in 10 hours a day and never become a good shooter. To label a guy as lazy because his shooting isn't good without direct knowledge of the players work habits is nothing more than reckless speculation.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2017, 12:08:38 pm »

What am I missing?  Why would hill take less money to go to a less competitive team?
Jazz didnt want to keep Hill, too much money. that's why they signed Rubio. Dumb decision.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2017, 12:10:32 pm »

I don't buy this belief that it boils down to  a guy being lazy. This would say that anyone who puts in the work can become a great shooter, which simply isn't true, whether it be a depth pereception problem or whatever, some people could put in 10 hours a day and never become a good shooter. To label a guy as lazy because his shooting isn't good without direct knowledge of the players work habits is nothing more than reckless speculation.

Totally disagree.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2017, 12:16:43 pm »

Jazz didnt want to keep Hill, too much money. that's why they signed Rubio. Dumb decision.

They offered him the same length contract and 1 mil more though?
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EastexHawg

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2017, 12:36:50 pm »

I don't buy this belief that it boils down to  a guy being lazy. This would say that anyone who puts in the work can become a great shooter, which simply isn't true, whether it be a depth pereception problem or whatever, some people could put in 10 hours a day and never become a good shooter. To label a guy as lazy because his shooting isn't good without direct knowledge of the players work habits is nothing more than reckless speculation.

Okay, let's change the question.  Why would any team sign a player who can't shoot?

By the way, I disagree with you about shooting.  It is a skill, much like shooting pool or playing golf.  Practice enough and you will become better at it.  If you have some physical limitation that prevents you from being able to put the ball through the hoop you shouldn't be playing professional basketball in the first place.
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jry04

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2017, 02:54:11 pm »

Simple. Laziness.  I have developed a mean shot over the past two years.  Every time I step in a gym, I spend at least 20 minutes shooting.  I know it's much harder to shoot over the most athletic/tallest players in the country but memory muscle is memory muscle.  Practice is all it takes. I followed Steph closely at Davidson, he COULD NOT CREATE HIS OWN SHOT. Through hard work and dedication, his handles got much better.  Some just don't look at the NBA as a job. They are still stuck in "I'm the best around" mentality and don't feel the need to improve.
If it were that simple then everyone would have a good shot. Rubio, by all accounts, was one of the hardest workers. Always in early and staying late. He worked on his shot. He got a lot better late in this last season. However, it is as much mental/confidence as it is anything else with him. When he misses a shot, and the defense starts playing 5 feet off him he let it get in his head. I know plenty of guys at the local gym who can hit 15+ threes in a row from different spots without missing. I bet Rubio can do the same in practice. The difference is, when you have 20,000+ fans watching you late in a game you can throw "muscle memory" out of the window for most players.
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rude1

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2017, 08:10:38 pm »

Okay, let's change the question.  Why would any team sign a player who can't shoot?

By the way, I disagree with you about shooting.  It is a skill, much like shooting pool or playing golf.  Practice enough and you will become better at it.  If you have some physical limitation that prevents you from being able to put the ball through the hoop you shouldn't be playing professional basketball in the first place.
One only has to look at our own Darrel Walker, leaving college his bio read "needs to develop a jump shot", after a ten year NBA career Darrel was still without that jump shot, by some of you guys accounts, Walker was simply lazy over his his career, this is why he never became a good shooter. Oh and there's more to the game than just shooting the ball, this is why Walker had a ten year NBA career without one.
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ErieHog

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2017, 08:14:35 pm »

Magic Johnson never had a jump shot either-- but he played a smarter brand of basketball, and overcame it.

Rubio simply can't.
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EastexHawg

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Re: Erie has his prayers answered
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2017, 09:46:56 pm »

Practice doesn't make perfect.  Perfect practice makes perfect.  Well, of course no one is perfect but you get the idea. 

No one is saying every player can be Larry Bird or Steph Curry, but there is no excuse for forcing your team to play 4 on 5 on offense.
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