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Author Topic: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.  (Read 5613 times)

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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2017, 12:23:53 pm »

Union Christian in Ft. Smith was mediocre in football in 2A. They left the Arkansas Activities Association (a joke of an organization) and joined an Oklahoma association that plays 8-man, and have been pretty successful.
Needs a thread
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2017, 12:27:53 pm »

Needs a thread

not really, the statement was pretty much dead on.
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2017, 12:29:54 pm »

yea, its horrible to have to pass classes to play sports. 


I agree with the point your making but it is happening.

One of the greatest players in Pine Bluff high school football history was Basil Shabazz. He was magic on the field but when it came time for graduation, he didn't have the grades to go to college. Had they raised the minimum grade point average before he played at PB, he would have been academically ineligible to play HS football.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2017, 12:32:01 pm »

I agree with the point your making but it is happening.

One of the greatest players in Pine Bluff high school football history was Basil Shabazz. He was magic on the field but when it came time for graduation, he didn't have the grades to go to college. Had they raised the minimum grade point average before he played at PB, he would have been academically ineligible to play HS football.

So? What good did playing do him? Good grief it is not like they are asking kids to make straight a's to be eligible.
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2017, 01:40:42 pm »

So? What good did playing do him? Good grief it is not like they are asking kids to make straight a's to be eligible.

I agree but some of them aren't being pushed to even get a "C" average.
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Jimmy

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2017, 01:56:31 pm »

Regardless, I'll continue to buy season football tickets, donate to the foundation, buy parking, plan weekends and tailgating around football and continue to accept free tickets to basketball games, that is, if I want to go to the trouble of going to a basketball game.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2017, 02:06:42 pm »

I agree but some of them aren't being pushed to even get a "C" average.

So the standards should be lowered back to what they were when he was playing? Not sure I know where you are going with this.
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2017, 02:42:17 pm »

So the standards should be lowered back to what they were when he was playing? Not sure I know where you are going with this.

No, I don't think they should be lowered. It's just sad that some students who might be good athletes are not being pushed to get their grades where they need to be.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2017, 02:44:55 pm »

No, I don't think they should be lowered. It's just sad that some students who might be good athletes are not being pushed to get their grades where they need to be.

agree with that 100%.
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2017, 03:55:31 pm »

I do not see that at all.

Its a very simple equation.

You are what you do, not what you desire to become.

Arkansas is a basketball state, that desires strongly to be a football relevant state, but it isn't. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2017, 04:41:53 pm »

Its a very simple equation.

You are what you do, not what you desire to become.

Arkansas is a basketball state, that desires strongly to be a football relevant state, but it isn't. 

Well, actually, we are a state that desires to be relevant, period.  No one outside the state thinks about Ar HS football or basketball. Maybe about a couple of players in each sport, but not either sport as a whole.

If, though, you made people choose which sport their HS would play, they'd almost all choose football. Even some of the districts that do not currently play football, they desperately want to, they just do not have the funds or numbers to do so.
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2017, 09:42:37 pm »

Well, actually, we are a state that desires to be relevant, period.  No one outside the state thinks about Ar HS football or basketball. Maybe about a couple of players in each sport, but not either sport as a whole.

If, though, you made people choose which sport their HS would play, they'd almost all choose football. Even some of the districts that do not currently play football, they desperately want to, they just do not have the funds or numbers to do so.

That's the essence of the issue, and why so many people think that Arkansas is a football state.

Again.  What you want is not what you do.  Basketball state, basketball school, basketball environment.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #112 on: June 08, 2017, 09:09:40 am »

That's the essence of the issue, and why so many people think that Arkansas is a football state.

Again.  What you want is not what you do.  Basketball state, basketball school, basketball environment.

Just because some of you want it to be a basketball state does not make it so either. The reality is, if we are talking about players, it is neither. If we are talking about players that move on to college and beyond, then AR is a baseball state.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2017, 01:09:12 pm »

I thought Arkansas was more of a hunting and fishing state..............................ask some fans and they'll say that nobody goes to football games during hunting season.
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popcornhog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #114 on: June 08, 2017, 02:40:21 pm »

Arkansas is a football state, period. Doubt that ever changes.

Why do you say that? We've got more history in both hoops and baseball.
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2017, 03:01:18 pm »

Why do you say that? We've got more history in both hoops and baseball.

Not really. Basketball didn't really start to have meaning in Arkansas until Eddie Sutton arrived in Fayetteville in the late 70's and football had been big in Arkansas since long before that.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2017, 03:09:33 pm »

Are we talking about which Hog sports means more? Which HS sport? Which sport people would rather watch in general? Which sport produces more top level talent? I can tell you football is the answer to every one of those questions except maybe the last one.
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Youngsta71701

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2017, 03:19:09 pm »

Arkansas is a football state, period. Doubt that ever changes.
Like it or not he might have a point. If those kids that are playing basketball also played football the amount of D1 football talent in this state would probably double. Especially in central Arkansas.
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2017, 03:57:14 pm »

Just because some of you want it to be a basketball state does not make it so either. The reality is, if we are talking about players, it is neither. If we are talking about players that move on to college and beyond, then AR is a baseball state.

The numbers, results, and practices argue otherwise.

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tophawg19

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2017, 05:41:22 pm »

Well, actually, we are a state that desires to be relevant, period.  No one outside the state thinks about Ar HS football or basketball. Maybe about a couple of players in each sport, but not either sport as a whole.

If, though, you made people choose which sport their HS would play, they'd almost all choose football. Even some of the districts that do not currently play football, they desperately want to, they just do not have the funds or numbers to do so.
Arkansas has more outside recruiters coming in from major schools than ever before . Our kids are drawing more national attention than ever before
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tophawg19

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2017, 05:44:28 pm »

Are we talking about which Hog sports means more? Which HS sport? Which sport people would rather watch in general? Which sport produces more top level talent? I can tell you football is the answer to every one of those questions except maybe the last one.
go to football games on a friday night and the stands are packed , basketball not so much
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daBoar

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2017, 06:31:43 pm »

Not really. Basketball didn't really start to have meaning in Arkansas until Eddie Sutton arrived in Fayetteville in the late 70's and football had been big in Arkansas since long before that.
Er, 74 Guv.  But, you probably weren't on the Hill then.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #122 on: June 09, 2017, 09:59:39 am »

go to football games on a friday night and the stands are packed , basketball not so much

Yep. What a few people want to do is look at the most successful hs basketball programs and extrapolate that out over the state. There is no doubt that at a few school, basketball is the better sport and better attended. But, in general, football still is what brings people out. I called a game in the rain early last November, 2 teams going no where, and it was close to SRO. Not a rivalry game, not a conf title game, just a game.
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East TN HAWG

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #123 on: June 09, 2017, 10:54:07 am »

go to football games on a friday night and the stands are packed , basketball not so much
If you attended a football game at Kentucky there would be more people than you would find at Rupp Arena during a basketball game.  Does that makes KY a football school as well?

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Danny J

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #124 on: June 09, 2017, 03:57:04 pm »

If you attended a football game at Kentucky there would be more people than you would find at Rupp Arena during a basketball game.  Does that makes KY a football school as well?
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LZH

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2017, 04:10:23 pm »

If you attended a football game at Kentucky there would be more people than you would find at Rupp Arena during a basketball game.  Does that makes KY a football school as well?



If Rupp had 65,000 seats, it would probably be full anyway.
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bollweevil

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2017, 05:39:00 pm »

I told a friend from Kentucky that I believe Arkansas is a football state that also appreciates and supports good basketball, unlike much of the rest of the SEC. But if you look at the grassroots level (i.e. high school sports) I believe football far surpasses basketball in the hearts and minds of this state's sports fans.  There is no Hooten's Arkansas Basketball magazine. Television coverage of high school basketball pales in comparison with football. Coffee shop conversations in small towns across the state are usually focused on their local high school football team or Razorback football and basketball, but predominantly football. This state goes into a collective funk when Arkansas football loses the way the Hogs lost their last two games. I don't see that in basketball. As for my Kentucky friend, he tells me the only reason Kentucky invented bourbon was the get through football season.
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ChicoHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2017, 08:07:08 pm »

If you attended a football game at Kentucky there would be more people than you would find at Rupp Arena during a basketball game.  Does that makes KY a football school as well?


No it does not but UK is one of the few colleges/universities that the fans care more about basketball than football.  UK ,KU, Duke, IU, maybe Syracuse, UNC, UCLA, AZ and a couple more.  otherwise football is king.  Erie thinks because we have had more recent (last 40 years) success in basketball that makes us a basketball school.  False.  What makes your school is what the fans care about most.  Under Erie's theory we are a track and field school.  Yes, we are very successful at T&F but most of the fans don't care about it.  They care about football, basketball and baseball in that order. Always have and always will. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #128 on: June 10, 2017, 01:05:54 am »

I told a friend from Kentucky that I believe Arkansas is a football state that also appreciates and supports good basketball, unlike much of the rest of the SEC. But if you look at the grassroots level (i.e. high school sports) I believe football far surpasses basketball in the hearts and minds of this state's sports fans.  There is no Hooten's Arkansas Basketball magazine. Television coverage of high school basketball pales in comparison with football. Coffee shop conversations in small towns across the state are usually focused on their local high school football team or Razorback football and basketball, but predominantly football. This state goes into a collective funk when Arkansas football loses the way the Hogs lost their last two games. I don't see that in basketball. As for my Kentucky friend, he tells me the only reason Kentucky invented bourbon was the get through football season.

Want <<< Do.

We'd love nothing better than to be a football state.  We simply aren't.  We support a bad quality product (AR HS football) over what we do better.
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Sivad

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #129 on: June 10, 2017, 01:15:45 am »

Better hope not.
Football pays all the bills.
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bollweevil

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #130 on: June 10, 2017, 09:34:40 am »

Ah, but what we want is what we are. Yes, basketball is better right now, but that doesn't make Arkansas a basketball state. This state's first love has always been football. I don't see that changing, regardless of how much success we have in basketball.
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2017, 12:32:01 pm »

Ah, but what we want is what we are. Yes, basketball is better right now, but that doesn't make Arkansas a basketball state. This state's first love has always been football. I don't see that changing, regardless of how much success we have in basketball.

It isn't.     Everyone wants to be fabulously wealthy-- that doesn't change the material circumstances of most.   You are what you are, no matter what you hope.
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hawkhawg

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2017, 12:45:52 pm »

I think In central Arkansas, basketball has surpassed football in the 30 and under age group. Speaking just for central Arkansas I know the number of  kids playing football goes down every year. But these guys putting on all the weekend basketball tournaments are getting rich. If you have a young kid (between the youth leagues, school teams, and tournament) you can just about find them some place to play almost every night.
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Pork Twain

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2017, 01:02:38 pm »

Arkansas is a great basketball state, always has been.  Lots and lots of kids growing up through the 90s in Arkansas had no access to football as that they went to schools too small for football.  At those schools, basketball was king.
This is how it was when I was growing up in the 80s/90s in Arkansas.  I have never understood the insistence that Arkansas is a football state and not a basketball state.  I guess that logic works if you are fond of the 60s/70s, but the majority of us born after that, have never seen Arkansas football dominate anything but we have seen the Hawgs take over the court.

First, it can be both.  Second in a rural state like Arkansas, there are numerous schools that have basketball and baseball but are not big enough to even have a football team.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #134 on: June 12, 2017, 03:10:54 pm »

Want <<< Do.

We'd love nothing better than to be a football state.  We simply aren't.  We support a bad quality product (AR HS football) over what we do better.


we don't do HS basketball any better than we do HS football. How many Arkansas kids are in the nba right now, I mean born and raised here? How many in the NFl? How many in MLB?
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mightybulldogs12

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #135 on: June 12, 2017, 04:15:15 pm »

I am more excited about basketball than football this year.  I never thought I would say that !
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #136 on: June 12, 2017, 04:21:02 pm »

we don't do HS basketball any better than we do HS football. How many Arkansas kids are in the nba right now, I mean born and raised here? How many in the NFl? How many in MLB?

In the NBA?  Several.  Conley, Evans,  Goodwin, and Joe Johnson all come to mind.  You can throw in a couple of others who have been NBA-actives in the last year and a half.

Overall, we consistently provide about 1-2% of all NBA players.

In the NFL,  we produce about half that rate.

MLB,  about half way in between.

Keep in mind, we play a ton more football and baseball in Arkansas, than we do basketball;  our college attendance based on the highest levels of competition also skew similarly towards basketball-- you are about twice as likely to be a college basketball player from Arkansas than a college baseball or football player,  and that's even before adjusting to the amount of each sport played in Arkansas.


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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #137 on: June 12, 2017, 04:26:31 pm »

In the NBA?  Several.  Conley, Evans,  Goodwin, and Joe Johnson all come to mind.  You can throw in a couple of others who have been NBA-actives in the last year and a half.

Overall, we consistently provide about 1-2% of all NBA players.

In the NFL,  we produce about half that rate.

MLB,  about half way in between.

Keep in mind, we play a ton more football and baseball in Arkansas, than we do basketball;  our college attendance based on the highest levels of competition also skew similarly towards basketball-- you are about twice as likely to be a college basketball player from Arkansas than a college baseball or football player,  and that's even before adjusting to the amount of each sport played in Arkansas.




So, for classifying the state, are we doing it on what the fans want to watch, and most kids want to play, or on players making the pros, or on how our hs teams do when they step out of state?
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #138 on: June 12, 2017, 04:46:49 pm »

This is how it was when I was growing up in the 80s/90s in Arkansas.  I have never understood the insistence that Arkansas is a football state and not a basketball state.  I guess that logic works if you are fond of the 60s/70s, but the majority of us born after that, have never seen Arkansas football dominate anything but we have seen the Hawgs take over the court.

First, it can be both.  Second in a rural state like Arkansas, there are numerous schools that have basketball and baseball but are not big enough to even have a football team.

I'm obviously older than you and I do remember the 60's and 70's. Back then, it was not uncommon for a football player from the state of Arkansas to get drafted by an NFL team but basketball was different. Before Eddie Sutton came to Arkansas, it was very rare for a player from this state to get drafted by an NBA team. The Triplets (Brewer, Delph, and Moncrief) actually brought attention to basketball in this state. I believe Marvin Delph was the only basketball player in the history of the state of Arkansas to be drafted into the NBA twice and turned it down both times saying "he had a higher calling".
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #139 on: June 12, 2017, 05:01:53 pm »

I'm obviously older than you and I do remember the 60's and 70's. Back then, it was not uncommon for a football player from the state of Arkansas to get drafted by an NFL team but basketball was different. Before Eddie Sutton came to Arkansas, it was very rare for a player from this state to get drafted by an NBA team. The Triplets (Brewer, Delph, and Moncrief) actually brought attention to basketball in this state. I believe Marvin Delph was the only basketball player in the history of the state of Arkansas to be drafted into the NBA twice and turned it down both times saying "he had a higher calling".

IIRC George Kok was drafted higher in the draft than any other Arkansas player. I think he was #2.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 06:53:42 am by Inhogswetrust »
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #140 on: June 12, 2017, 05:03:12 pm »

So, for classifying the state, are we doing it on what the fans want to watch, and most kids want to play, or on players making the pros, or on how our hs teams do when they step out of state?

By the actual performances.     What you do, essentially, over the long haul, is who you are.

And basketball, we punch above our relative weight.   It doesn't mean we dominate nationally, or that we just bleed talent everywhere at all times--  but our best is pretty good.

Our HS teams  tend to be a bit isolated, because our schools do tend to be drawing on smaller pools, but fare relatively ok, compared to our football out of state.  When we concentrate talent, like on the AAU circuit, we do very well indeed nationally.

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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #141 on: June 12, 2017, 05:08:09 pm »

IIRC George Kok was drafted higer in the draft than any other Arkansas player. I think he was #2.

Correct, but he was only drafted once. Marvin Delph was drafted after his senior year and turned it down then was again drafted the next year and turned that down too.
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sevenof400

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #142 on: June 12, 2017, 06:08:30 pm »

Better hope not.
Football pays all the bills.

If only that were true....
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factchecker

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #143 on: June 12, 2017, 06:15:27 pm »

If only that were true....

According to the annual report:

Quote
"Nearly 2/3 of Athletic revenues are generated by the Razorback Football program"

https://issuu.com/christinezambetti/docs/2016-annual-report
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 09:06:18 pm by factchecker »
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2017, 08:44:13 am »

According to the annual report:

https://issuu.com/christinezambetti/docs/2016-annual-report

Yep, football is indeed  the main cash cow for the U of A Athletic department and always will be.
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Justifiable Hogicide

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #145 on: June 13, 2017, 09:46:05 am »

Yep, football is indeed  the main cash cow for the U of A Athletic department and always will be.
True. Football built that big red Hog and it is what keeps it running.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #146 on: June 13, 2017, 10:03:54 am »

By the actual performances.     What you do, essentially, over the long haul, is who you are.

And basketball, we punch above our relative weight.   It doesn't mean we dominate nationally, or that we just bleed talent everywhere at all times--  but our best is pretty good.

Our HS teams  tend to be a bit isolated, because our schools do tend to be drawing on smaller pools, but fare relatively ok, compared to our football out of state.  When we concentrate talent, like on the AAU circuit, we do very well indeed nationally.



That does not make us a basketball state. There is a 18u baseball team from NWA ranked in the top 5 nationally in USSSA, so maybe we are a baseball state.

But which would impact fans and players more if it went away, football or basketball?
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ErieHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #147 on: June 13, 2017, 03:14:00 pm »

That does not make us a basketball state. There is a 18u baseball team from NWA ranked in the top 5 nationally in USSSA, so maybe we are a baseball state.

But which would impact fans and players more if it went away, football or basketball?

One team does not a trend make;  spend a couple of decades doing it, and maybe.

Fan impact is tied to desire-- which is, again, very different from identity.

I can hope and pray to play basketball like Michael Jordan.     It doesn't mean I should be disappointed when I can't.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #148 on: June 13, 2017, 03:35:30 pm »

One team does not a trend make;  spend a couple of decades doing it, and maybe.

Fan impact is tied to desire-- which is, again, very different from identity.

I can hope and pray to play basketball like Michael Jordan.     It doesn't mean I should be disappointed when I can't.

Well actually we have had baseball teams, at various levels, ranked pretty highly for about 2 decades or longer. Last years American Legion National Champions are from Arkansas. The Hogs baseball program has been more successful than either football or bball for the last 10 years at least.
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WilsonHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #149 on: June 13, 2017, 03:39:33 pm »

Would this whole thread not turn on the working definition of "taking over?"

More people attending games?
Higher ranked teams?
More D-1 recruits?
More intercollegiate recruits at all levels?
More dollars generated?
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