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MJ or LBJ: Who You Got?

Started by sadhogfan, May 11, 2017, 10:20:31 pm

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sadhogfan

I still have MJ edging out LeBron, but James continues to add to his legacy.

Give me who you think is better and why.

I would prefer to avoid arguments based on (1) you are old and cranky and threatened by anyone ever surpassing MJ, or (2) you are young and ignorant and have no idea how good MJ really was.

Erie, I want your thoughts.

pigroots

MJ...better handles, better defender,played against better players....numbers about the same except steals and blocks both of which favor MJ. The two best of all time and if only 1 gets the last shot for me it's MJ

 

GoHogs1091

Neither.

George Gervin.

Gervin could not be defended by an opposing defender.

Jordan and James can be defended by an opposing defender.

BannerMountainMan

"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

McKdaddy

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 11, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
Neither.

George Gervin.

Gervin could not be defended by an opposing defender.

Jordan and James can be defended by an opposing defender.


I'll nominate Dave DeBusschere. With whatever the hell GH1091 is smoking, why not???
Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades.

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GoHogs1091

Quote from: McKdaddy on May 11, 2017, 10:40:49 pm

I'll nominate Dave DeBusschere. With whatever the hell GH1091 is smoking, why not???

April 9, 1978

Gervin  1st Quarter  20 points

Gervin scored 18 consecutive points at one stretch later in the 1st half.

Gervin scored 33 points in the 2nd Quarter, a record that still stands (most points scored in a quarter in NBA history).

Gervin scored 53 by halftime.

He finished the game with 63 points in just 33 minutes of playing time.

hawkhawg

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 11, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
Neither.

George Gervin.

Gervin could not be defended by an opposing defender.

Jordan and James can be defended by an opposing defender.

If Gervin could not be defended, then why didn't he average more points then Jordan?

PonderinHog


yraciv

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 11, 2017, 11:03:58 pm
April 9, 1978

Gervin  1st Quarter  20 points

Gervin scored 18 consecutive points at one stretch later in the 1st half.

Gervin scored 33 points in the 2nd Quarter, a record that still stands (most points scored in a quarter in NBA history).

Gervin scored 53 by halftime.

He finished the game with 63 points in just 33 minutes of playing time.

Do you remember the time Lebron scored 25 straight against the Pistons in the Eastern Conference Finals?

And the only reason Gervin scored 63 in that game because it was the last game of the season, meaningless, and he was locked into a scoring title battle with David Thompson. He needed a ton to keep the title. He was 23 for 49 from the field, which is solid but it's not like he was unguardable.

Even Devin Booker scored 70 this year, and it was more efficient than Gervins.

GoHogs1091

Quote from: hawkhawg on May 11, 2017, 11:15:47 pm
If Gervin could not be defended, then why didn't he average more points then Jordan?

Jordan had the 3 point line for all of his NBA career.

Gervin didn't have a 3 point line for much of his NBA career.

yraciv

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 11, 2017, 11:32:30 pm
Jordan had the 3 point line for all of his NBA career.

Gervin didn't have a 3 point line for much of his NBA career.

Gervin was a 29% 3 pt shooter who hit .1 per game in his career.

PonderinHog

Quote from: yraciv on May 11, 2017, 11:35:37 pm
Gervin was a 29% 3 pt shooter who hit .1 per game in his career.
I'm sorry, but GoHogs has spoken!   >:( 

razorsharp94

LeBron has played 11 less regular season games and has scored 5000 less points he has played 30 more playoff games and still trails MJ  in all-time playoff points

 

pigture perfect

I will wait til LaBron retires to say who"s best. MJ was smooth, Bron is raw power. 2 totally different styles. Hard to chose for me.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

(notOM)Rebel123

Quote from: yraciv on May 11, 2017, 11:35:37 pm
Gervin was a 29% 3 pt shooter who hit .1 per game in his career.

Jordan attempted 3 times as many per game. FWIW
"Knowledge is Good"....Emil Faber

The_Iceman

Think about the way defense was played then versus today. If Jordan was in his prime, he'd shoot 25 free throws a game and average near 40 ppg.

HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: GoHogs1091 on May 11, 2017, 10:34:44 pm
Neither.

George Gervin.

Gervin could not be defended by an opposing defender.

Jordan and James can be defended by an opposing defender.

You got to love this guy

We are having a MJ Lebron debate and this guy pulls out the Tracy McGrady of the 70's

(notOM)Rebel123

"Knowledge is Good"....Emil Faber

snoot hoggy hog

Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.

HogBeliever625

If LeBron had help early in his career he'd be working on his 7th ring and 12th finals appearance

PharmacistHog

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on May 12, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.

You killed your credibility with "the bulls were just as good when mj left".
Quote from: HogPharmer on December 27, 2018, 09:45:23 am
Millennials suck...

Quote from: GA reddiehog on May 18, 2019, 12:36:02 pm
Hogs have hit a wall at the wrong time of the season.  I will go on record now and say they may not even get out of their regional.  The hitting has been carrying them with a few good pitching outings but they just don't have the reliable pitching they need to get back to the CWS.

navyhog24

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on May 12, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.


So having a Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love isn't the same? Nor having DeWayne Wade and Chris Bosh? Not sure if serious....

bhogs05

MJ without a doubt.  6 for 6 in Finals with 6 MVPs.  Better scorer and people forget MJ was 9 time defensive 1st team, and also DPOY in '88.   10 time scoring champ and 3 time steals leader.  The most clutch player ever to play the game. 

Karma

MJ because of when I was born. If I were 20 years younger, I would probably say Lebron.

 

Hogs run wild

We all got a chicken duck woman thing waiting for us.

#1 STUNNA

Both are the best to ever do it.. and both would be just as good playing in each others time period.

King Kong

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on May 12, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.

You can't be serious

The_Iceman


The_Iceman

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on May 12, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.

LeBron, Wade, Bosh.

Lebron, Irving, Love.

Jordan, Pippen, and ???

And look at the branches and depth that formed about those Heat and now Cavs teams. Loaded!

KenHawg2023

I just think the lack of help early on argument isn't a good one when comparing these two. Jordan had major help early? Not really. Pippen was around pretty quickly but he wasn't a reliable option for a few years. I may actually go the other way and say early on I would take Lebron, but in their prime I would go Jordan. Like other guys said 6 for 6 and we missed out on possibly two other years due to baseball. Lebron in my mind is #2 all-time especially if he adds another ring. If Lebron got to 6 rings...i think he would deserve the crown hands down. I honestly don't see much an argument otherwise. (I can't believe i just typed that.)  ::)

LRHog

Quote from: pigroots on May 11, 2017, 10:29:39 pm
MJ...better handles, better defender,played against better players....numbers about the same except steals and blocks both of which favor MJ. The two best of all time and if only 1 gets the last shot for me it's MJ

Wrong on all 3 of those first notes.

Lebron can literally guard anyone. MJ couldn't. Lebron is playing in an age of where even the bench players are stupid good. Saying he played against better players is a farce.

Adam Stokes

Quote from: PharmacistHog on May 12, 2017, 08:04:44 am
You killed your credibility with "the bulls were just as good when mj left".

Certainly not in the postseason. But the team did have 55 wins and was the 3 seed in the east the year after MJ the competitor got bored the first time. Don't remember any of LeBron's teams doing that well after he left. Cleveland went from 61 to 19 (!) wins after he went to Miami and then Miami went from 54 to 37 when he left back to Cleveland. Neither team had major roster changes.

MJ is better, but this point is hardly worth contesting.

The_Bionic_Pig

I'd take 6'9 Magic Johnson over both simply because he could make UAPB a Tournament team the other player's mentioned would need to average 45+ per game.

█ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▃ ▂ ▁ *Mute*

HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: LRHog on May 12, 2017, 11:57:07 am
Wrong on all 3 of those first notes.

Lebron can literally guard anyone. MJ couldn't. Lebron is playing in an age of where even the bench players are stupid good. Saying he played against better players is a farce.

Lebron isn't a great one on one defender. Now help defense blocking shots and steal in the guy isn't guard maybe the best ever from a perimeter player.

MJ would roll over in his grave if he ever let Melo score 40 on him like Lebron has in the past.

HogFansReunited

These young kids that think Lebron is the greatest only think that because they never saw Jordan play.
My girl told me to whisper something sexy in her ear...so I leaned in and said....Dominic Fletcher.

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Member #3568

hogfanshan

Quote from: PharmacistHog on May 12, 2017, 08:04:44 am
You killed your credibility with "the bulls were just as good when mj left".

This!

MountieDawg

MJ 1st, MJ 2nd and MJ 3rd....  He is the one and only!
SEC!

greenEGnHAWGS

Quote from: snoot hoggy hog on May 12, 2017, 07:45:13 am
Give me Lebron. All around better player. Jordan had Pippen to guard the teams best player. Lebron has never had a Pippen. The Bulls was just as good when Jordan left the first time. Lebron teams became one of the worst in the league after he left. Lebron took the Sasha Pavlovic All-Stars to the NBA finals. Jordan never made it out the first round without Pippen. I could go on and on.

Wait..what?! LeBron has never had a Pippen? He's never done anything unless he got to hand-pick which NBA Superstars he wanted. LeBron is the biggest flopper in the NBA, which is a total BS move in sports. It only shows me that you need to trick the refs to get an advantage over your opponent. MJ was way more clutch than LeBron. The only thing going for LeBron is his genetics allowed him to be huge and fast at the same time.

Here's a questions...if you put MJ into LeBron's body...would he be better? The answer...? abso-FREAKING-lutely!
Did they get you to trade a walk on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage...?

Danny J


LRHog

Quote from: HOGINTENNESSEE on May 12, 2017, 12:37:42 pm
Lebron isn't a great one on one defender. Now help defense blocking shots and steal in the guy isn't guard maybe the best ever from a perimeter player.

MJ would roll over in his grave if he ever let Melo score 40 on him like Lebron has in the past.

MJ got his ankles broken in 1000 pieces when iverson crossed his ass up.

Im just saying, Lebron is scoring just as much in the playoffs and takes less shots. He defends better if you ask me overall. He's also playing against better competition any way you slice it. Today's athletes make those of yesteryear look like high school.

LRHog

Quote from: greenEGnHAWGS on May 12, 2017, 12:54:49 pm
Wait..what?! LeBron has never had a Pippen? He's never done anything unless he got to hand-pick which NBA Superstars he wanted. LeBron is the biggest flopper in the NBA, which is a total BS move in sports. It only shows me that you need to trick the refs to get an advantage over your opponent. MJ was way more clutch than LeBron. The only thing going for LeBron is his genetics allowed him to be huge and fast at the same time.

Here's a questions...if you put MJ into LeBron's body...would he be better? The answer...? abso-FREAKING-lutely!

If you aint cheatin you aint tryin.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_VPFiHOf4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jL84Sqgum0

greenEGnHAWGS

Quote from: LRHog on May 12, 2017, 01:11:51 pm
If you aint cheatin you aint tryin.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_VPFiHOf4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jL84Sqgum0

Please tell me you're joking...please...

No one had any clue if/how hard MJ was hit on the first video. There is no replay or close ups. Having 10 seconds between the blow and getting the ball, it is not completely absurd to imagine that he'd be able to push through some pain.

The second video shows him almost taking an elbow to the face as Isaiah runs into him. If only I knew how to post videos, I could show you clip after clip after clip of people not coming within 2 feet of LBJ and having him falling to the ground...so no, don't even TRY to compare the 2 as floppers.
Did they get you to trade a walk on part in the war, for a lead role in a cage...?

hogwood

Big LeBron fan, but MJ had something so much smoother, majestic, and just so damn cool about him. He embodied basketball and still does to this day. LeBron sometimes hasn't been able to be clutch and sometimes he just looks like a 6'8" 250lb trainwreck just trying to get fouled. MJ just had more of "it" than JBJ does IMO. Plus he's got the rings.

LRHog


Quote from: greenEGnHAWGS on May 12, 2017, 01:30:58 pm

Please tell me you're joking...please...

No one had any clue if/how hard MJ was hit on the first video. There is no replay or close ups. Having 10 seconds between the blow and getting the ball, it is not completely absurd to imagine that he'd be able to push through some pain.

The second video shows him almost taking an elbow to the face as Isaiah runs into him. If only I knew how to post videos, I could show you clip after clip after clip of people not coming within 2 feet of LBJ and having him falling to the ground...so no, don't even TRY to compare the 2 as floppers.

I didnt say Lebron doesnt flop, thats the refs fault not his. If the refs will give a star 2 free throws everytime they do it.... you bet your ass im gonna do it.


I think this man sums it up pretty damn well:

https://www.facebook.com/TheHerd/videos/2015377945350061/

EastexHawg

This is like asking "Nicklaus or Jason Day, who you got?"

Jordan, all day every day.

hawginbigd1

Quote from: pigroots on May 11, 2017, 10:29:39 pm
MJ...better handles, better defender,played against better players....numbers about the same except steals and blocks both of which favor MJ. The two best of all time and if only 1 gets the last shot for me it's MJ
Magic to me is the best player ever, but MJ deservedly gets the mantle, Lebron will never surpass MJ. I agree with you MJ played better competition, and spent a large chunk of time playing on teams without any talent.

LRHog

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on May 12, 2017, 02:57:00 pm
Magic to me is the best player ever, but MJ deservedly gets the mantle, Lebron will never surpass MJ. I agree with you MJ played better competition, and spent a large chunk of time playing on teams without any talent.

Im so confused what reality everyone is in...

runich

Quote from: The_Iceman on May 12, 2017, 06:56:02 am
Think about the way defense was played then versus today. If Jordan was in his prime, he'd shoot 25 free throws a game and average near 40 ppg.

THIS....soooooo this....  Jordan, any day.  If you're a millenial...or whatever they call it these days and haven't truly watched some Jordan games....take some time and do so....he owned the court like no other (just throwing that out for anyone reading). 

Not for this thread I know, but honestly....if it comes down to one shot ....between the players who are currently playing ...I'd pick Curry...

sadhogfan

C'mon Erie, waiting for your thoughts here...

King Kong

May 12, 2017, 05:24:32 pm #49 Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:01:00 pm by King Kong
Quote from: LRHog on May 12, 2017, 01:05:55 pm
MJ got his ankles broken in 1000 pieces when iverson crossed his ass up.

Im just saying, Lebron is scoring just as much in the playoffs and takes less shots. He defends better if you ask me overall. He's also playing against better competition any way you slice it. Today's athletes make those of yesteryear look like high school.

Wait the best comeback you got is get beat one cross over? Jordan is one the best one on one defenders I have ever seen.