New SWC speculation

[Hawghiggs]

 http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/97388/playoff-may-not-be-sec-party-some-envisioned  With Chris Lowes recent article on how the SEC will cannibalize each other every season and the Big 12 failure to get into the playoff. Will it lead to an eventual rebuilding of the SWC?

[MC_Hog]

I hope not. I'm glad the SWC is dead & gone!

[lefty08]

Long die the SWC

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/97388/playoff-may-not-be-sec-party-some-envisioned  With Chris Lowes recent article on how the SEC will cannibalize each other every season and the Big 12 failure to get into the playoff. Will it lead to an eventual rebuilding of the SWC?

2 chances of that happening.  Slim & none.  Arkansas & TxA&M are not going to leave the SEC & all that money, to form another league where they lose millions of dollars of income every year.  That would be stupid.  Only way I could see the SWC coming back....is if the Big 12 just changes it's name from Big 12... to the Little SWC.  Besides, if Texas moves, it would have to be named the ..."Longhorn Conference"....& you know where the conference headquarters would be.

[ZERO]

Well, it would essentially be the Big 12 changing it's name to SWC. And there's no reason at all for that, all they need to do is add a conference championship game and the problem is solved.

The SEC cannibalizes itself, sure, but the conference champion is almost always going to be at least #4 in the nation after the SECCG. Missouri last year would have been an exception, but Missouri was in no danger of winning that game. It would have been like us winning it in '95 or '02.

[Hawghiggs]

2 chances of that happening.  Slim & none.  Arkansas & TxA&M are not going to leave the SEC & all that money, to form another league where they lose millions of dollars of income every year.  That would be stupid.  Only way I could see the SWC coming back....is if the Big 12 just changes it's name from Big 12... to the Little SWC.  Besides, if Texas moves, it would have to be named the ..."Longhorn Conference"....& you know where the conference headquarters would be.

To continue the conversation. If the SEC starts being left out of the playoff each season due to teams knocking each other out. Then the SEC will be losing monies. Here is the break down. http://businessofcollegesports.com/2014/12/01/college-football-playoff-payoutsrevenue-distribution-for-2014-15/

[Hawghiggs]

Well, it would essentially be the Big 12 changing it's name to SWC. And there's no reason at all for that, all they need to do is add a conference championship game and the problem is solved.

The SEC cannibalizes itself, sure, but the conference champion is almost always going to be at least #4 in the nation after the SECCG. Missouri last year would have been an exception, but Missouri was in no danger of winning that game. It would have been like us winning it in '95 or '02.

Why do the need to add a conference championship? If Baylor or TCU had scheduled better OOC programs. Then they would have been in. The SEC has no guarantee to be in the playoff. A two loss team can be easily left out and that kinda what Chris Lowe was getting at. 

[Danny J]

To continue the conversation. If the SEC starts being left out of the playoff each season due to teams knocking each other out. Then the SEC will be losing monies. Here is the break down. http://businessofcollegesports.com/2014/12/01/college-football-playoff-payoutsrevenue-distribution-for-2014-15/

SEC would pull something out of their hat. As long as the SEC is given the national respect then a 1 loss SEC team would get in over a 1 loss "name the conference" team. Now...if the SEC's perception begins to falter then who knows. Maybe that perception changes. Time does dictate that the SEC west will return to some sort of equilibrium meaning Ole Miss and MSU may drop while Arkansas climbs.

[ZERO]

Why do the need to add a conference championship? If Baylor or TCU had scheduled better OOC programs. Then they would have been in. The SEC has no guarantee to be in the playoff. A two loss team can be easily left out and that kinda what Chris Lowe was getting at.

Because the conference championship game adds an extra win over a most likely ranked opponent. 12-1 going into Bowl season with a final victory over a team ranked #12 or something is better than 11-1 and going up against three other teams who are either 13-0 or 12-1 with a final game against a highly ranked opponent. In my opinion, it's the same reason Oklahoma State got left out of the BCSNCG back in 2011 and Alabama got in. They each had a single loss, but Alabama lost to the team they were to rematch in the NC, and OSU lost to Iowa State who would finish with a losing record. If they had that one extra game to put them at 12-1 with a ranked win over an 11-1 Alabama, I believe they would have gotten the nod. Especially considering the hardcore thrashing they gave to Oklahoma in their year-end rivalry game.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

The answer is the amount of teams in the playoff. I don't believe the playoffs will continue to have only 4 teams.  This will probably be changed to 6-8 in the future.  8 would be ideal. The SEC would want it, & all the other big schools.  It would give all of their teams a better chance to make the playoffs.....& more money for the schools & conferences.  The smaller schools should be for it, it also gives them a better chance of making the playoffs, money, etc.  This year, TCU & Baylor would have been in, & a couple of others that should have had a shot.  4 teams is just not enough in most years, to have a real playoff in football.  With 8 teams in the playoff, the SEC would probably have more than one....regularly.

[Vildsvin]

I love how you titled this thread, "New SWC speculation" as if there is any actual speculation going on beyond this ill conceived thread.

[Doyle Hograves]

I love how you titled this thread, "New SWC speculation" as if there is any actual speculation going on beyond this ill conceived thread.

This...

Even with a link to an article that doesn't speculate about a new SWC.

[Hawghiggs]

The answer is the amount of teams in the playoff. I don't believe the playoffs will continue to have only 4 teams.  This will probably be changed to 6-8 in the future.  8 would be ideal. The SEC would want it, & all the other big schools.  It would give all of their teams a better chance to make the playoffs.....& more money for the schools & conferences.  The smaller schools should be for it, it also gives them a better chance of making the playoffs, money, etc.  This year, TCU & Baylor would have been in, & a couple of others that should have had a shot.  4 teams is just not enough in most years, to have a real playoff in football.  With 8 teams in the playoff, the SEC would probably have more than one....regularly.

I agree with you mostly. But the more teams you have in a playoff. The more it devalues a championship game. If we would have had an 8 team playoff this season. Mizzou would have been left out because they played and lost in the SEC championship game. As you noted. Both Baylor and TCU would have made it in and neither had to play in one.  The question becomes, When does playing in a league like the SEC actually become a hindrance to winning? If the SEC only produces 10-2 team as it champion, and the other conferences have multiple 11-1 teams. How can you keep them out and put another SEC team in?

[Hawghiggs]

I love how you titled this thread, "New SWC speculation" as if there is any actual speculation going on beyond this ill conceived thread.

Had to call it something and I needed some type of bait to get the conversation moving.

[Swineasaur]

The SEC had 2 teams in a one game national playoff, pretty sure just because 2 didn't get in the first year of this new playoff format doesn't mean we won't ever. "The sky is falling."

[Inhogswetrust]

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/97388/playoff-may-not-be-sec-party-some-envisioned  With Chris Lowes recent article on how the SEC will cannibalize each other every season and the Big 12 failure to get into the playoff. Will it lead to an eventual rebuilding of the SWC?

Oh good grief..........................with stuff like your question I have to question whether MMQ is going the way of Jump Ball. You must be that guy that remarries his ex three times despite how bad she was.....................................

[Inhogswetrust]

To continue the conversation. If the SEC starts being left out of the playoff each season due to teams knocking each other out. Then the SEC will be losing monies. Here is the break down. http://businessofcollegesports.com/2014/12/01/college-football-playoff-payoutsrevenue-distribution-for-2014-15/

That's funny. I don't remember the SEC getting left out this season and it will happen ONLY once in a blue moon NOT each season.

[rzrbaxfan]

I guess my definition of "cannibalize" is off.  For years, the SEC champ has been a solid one loss team or undefeated with wins over good teams to get there.  That sounds pretty solid to me.

If I hear a conference cannibalized itself, I think of a conference where the top is a log jam of 2 loss teams that have all taken turns beating each other and you have to use tie-breaker by-law 90210:A-3 in the conference handbook to determine the champ.

Just because our conference champ didn't win it all the past two years doesn't erase what happened the 6 years before.  It also doesn't diminish the toughness of playing in the conference each week in the regular season, especially this year.

[OldCoot]

It is not going to happen BUT I see Texass trying to get Arkansas to join and as soon as we did, Texass trying to fill our missing spot in the SEC.  That is how lowlife Texass is.

[Inhogswetrust]

I love how you titled this thread, "New SWC speculation" as if there is any actual speculation going on beyond this ill conceived thread.

It was a CLASSIC "bait and switch" tactic.

[DeltaBoy]

This year was an anomaly and I fully expect the SEC to have a team in the Title game next year. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Had to call it something and I needed some type of bait to get the conversation moving.

Bait...........BOOM. Bait and switch is NOT a good thing.

[The_Iceman]

With the recruiting and coaching improving in the middle and bottom parts of the SEC, I see it becoming harder and harder for one SEC team to become dominant. I can see years in the future where all SEC teams have 2 losses.

[longpig]

The SEC had 2 teams in a one game national playoff, pretty sure just because 2 didn't get in the first year of this new playoff format doesn't mean we won't ever. "The sky is falling."

^^This
To add, my understanding is that the committee doesn't have an "iron clad rule" that P5 conference champs are selected.  When both divisions of the SEC have atleast two teams in the top 6 at seasons end like they commonly do, and one of the p5's champ is weak like they commonly are, we'll have more than one team placed.

[NaturalStateReb]

The SWC is as dead as fried chicken.

If there's another major shakeup in conferences, it'll mean fewer major conferences, not more.

[Mike Irwin]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

[longpig]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

I've never looked that far down the road, but you are probably right.  It's unfortunate the NCAA didn't limit conference size by requiring that all members face each other every season.  No turning back now.

[DeltaBoy]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

That is what I hopes happens with in the next 10 years.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

I like this scenario.  It caps the max number of games a team plays to 15 if the current 12 game regular season is kept. 

Also with the 8 division winners advancing to the playoffs if puts emphasis on divisional record.  Now in some years a particular division may be weak but that's how it is in the NFL you just deal with it.  Most importantly since teams don't have to worry as much about overall record they can schedule more compelling non-divisional games whether it be with someone in the same conference different division or in a different conference.

All games should be kept within the 72 power teams.  No dropping down to play a BS FCS or even a non Power Mid Major.  Well maybe one Mid Major to help them out, but no more FCS period.

One problem is it makes too much sense so it may never get implemented.

[oldhawg]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

Independents (Notre Dame) will have to factor in somehow ---- perhaps they will then relent and see the wisdom of joining the BIG.

[Hawghiggs]

Oh good grief……………………..with stuff like your question I have to question whether MMQ is going the way of Jump Ball. You must be that guy that remarries his ex three times despite how bad she was……………………………….

Actually I've only been married once. I'm no expert on marriage but I have been married for 15 years now.

[Inhogswetrust]

Actually I've only been married once. I'm no expert on marriage but I have been married for 15 years now.

Well you are obviously an expert at marriage............college conferences and payoffs.......no.

Seriously congrats on the 15 years. We are celebrating our 17th this weekend.

[Inhogswetrust]

With the recruiting and coaching improving in the middle and bottom parts of the SEC, I see it becoming harder and harder for one SEC team to become dominant. I can see years in the future where all SEC teams have 2 losses.

Coaches come and go though.

[Inhogswetrust]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

I'm all for four super conferences but with 16 teams each. Thus 4 current teams would have to be left out. Not sure how that could be determined. I believe crossover games are good to have and I believe that a conference champ game is good also. It thus in effect would become the first round of an 8 team playoff. The only way I see a first round game involving 8 teams that are not a conference champ game ids IF the inferences can make more money that way by eliminating it and replacing it with a seeded first round. If you have the conference champ game then you seed after those for the four team like it is now which I think is better.

[Porquemada]

I don't want the SWC, but I absolutely hate the Razorbacks being in the SEC.

[geauxhawgs]

Not a chance. It makes ZERO common sense for us to leave the best league, let alone the best division in college football just because we're rebuilding. Our exposure in the SEC is off the charts, we just got 2 of our 4 division teams into a 4 team playoff, despite what many will say- Arkansas hasn't got up and moved and if you zoom out on any map of the United States it is still in the Southeastern U.S. so it makes sense culturally and geographically, and our program is on a steady upward trajectory. Any other situation would be a MAJOR downgrade and put the value of our program in big time jeopardy.  You want to BE with the best not RUN from them.

[GuvHog]

I like this scenario.  It caps the max number of games a team plays to 15 if the current 12 game regular season is kept. 

Also with the 8 division winners advancing to the playoffs if puts emphasis on divisional record.  Now in some years a particular division may be weak but that's how it is in the NFL you just deal with it.  Most importantly since teams don't have to worry as much about overall record they can schedule more compelling non-divisional games whether it be with someone in the same conference different division or in a different conference.

All games should be kept within the 72 power teams.  No dropping down to play a BS FCS or even a non Power Mid Major.  Well maybe one Mid Major to help them out, but no more FCS period.

One problem is it makes too much sense so it may never get implemented.

I agree with this. It wouldn't surprise me though, if the SEC eventually goes after the Oklahoma schools (OU and OSU) and re-aligned the divisions like this:

Western Division

Arkansas
LSU
Ole Miss
Miss State
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas A&M

Eastern Division

Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

[bigredone]

I like Mike! Great idea.

[Hawghiggs]

Well you are obviously an expert at marriage............college conferences and payoffs.......no.

Seriously congrats on the 15 years. We are celebrating our 17th this weekend.

Well thank you and I hope that ya'll have a wonderful anniversary.

[Hawghiggs]

Eventually the five power conferences will become four. The Big 12 will likely be absorbed by the SEC, The Pac 12 and the Big 10.

The four two division conferences will have 18 teams each, nine in each division. Each division will, in effect, be a conference. There will be no need for conference championship games.

The division teams will play a round robin of 8 games. No crossover crap. The eight division winners will advance to a playoff without the need of a selection committee.

Although I like the idea. I have to ask. What would be the real difference between building our own conference and being in one that was allocated to us?

[Hawghiggs]

 Sorry. double post.

[Hogarusa]

No

[LZH]

No

Really.  How the OP even got "SWC" from that article is beyond me.  Some folks just can't get over the idea that we're in the SEC to stay....and we aren't going back to being Texas' bitch (and yeah, that's a shot at OU and everyone else in the SWC/Big-whatever).

[Hawghiggs]

Really.  How the OP even got "SWC" from that article is beyond me.  Some folks just can't get over the idea that we're in the SEC to stay....and we aren't going back to being Texas' bitch (and yeah, that's a shot at OU and everyone else in the SWC/Big-whatever).

I never mentioned we would. All I mentioned was the Chris Lowe article that proposes that the SEC might not get teams into the playoff due to the fact of having so much depth. If the SEC gets to knocking itself out of the playoff every year. Then what is the real gain?   

[Murr]

Well, it would essentially be the Big 12 changing it's name to SWC. And there's no reason at all for that, all they need to do is add a conference championship game and the problem is solved.

Not, Big 12 renaming itself the SWC, but the SEC West calling itself the SWC if you add Oklahoma and another B12 school like Texas or Nebraska or Kansas.

SEC Western Conf: OU, , Mizzou, Ark, Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
or, go to pods of four w/ Ark, OU, Mizz, A&M

[BrassNunchucks]

Moving out of the SEC isn't going to happen, and there's probably lots of good reasons why being in a conference where Texas is the heavyweight would never be a good idea long-term.

As a thought experiment, though, it is kinda fun to kick it around. For instance, while we would never move on the basis of one coach or his style of play, can you imagine playing in the Big 12 under Bielema? The contrast in styles would be incredible. We'd bulldoze the lower half of the conference, a la Texas Tech, and probably subject Baylor, UT and Oklahoma to a few unceremonious whippings in the first few years.

Add to that the greater proximity to Texas talent, easier travel for fans, historical relationships between the states and the fact the Big 12 simply *needs* Arkansas in a way the SEC will never need us, it's fun to think about. Even if it won't happen.

[Hawghiggs]

Moving out of the SEC isn't going to happen, and there's probably lots of good reasons why being in a conference where Texas is the heavyweight would never be a good idea long-term.

As a thought experiment, though, it is kinda fun to kick it around. For instance, while we would never move on the basis of one coach or his style of play, can you imagine playing in the Big 12 under Bielema? The contrast in styles would be incredible. We'd bulldoze the lower half of the conference, a la Texas Tech, and probably subject Baylor, UT and Oklahoma to a few unceremonious whippings in the first few years.

Add to that the greater proximity to Texas talent, easier travel for fans, historical relationships between the states and the fact the Big 12 simply *needs* Arkansas in a way the SEC will never need us, it's fun to think about. Even if it won't happen.

What if it wasn't just Arkansas that went. What if A&M and LSU went also?

[texas tush hog]

What if it wasn't just Arkansas that went. What if A&M and LSU went also?

You have fever with these spells?

[reddogjcss]

Anything associated with Texas will slowly die?

[Hawghiggs]

You have fever with these spells?

No just keeping the conversation going.