The lines are where the lack of instate talent really hurts

[hogsanity]

If you look at all the top SEC teams their OL and DL are poaded with primarily in sate talent.  They can use their out of state recruiting to get skill players.  ARK has to get both line men and skill from out of state.  Makes it really hard.  Especially when alot of these teams get so many in state linemen to walk on ( kind of like how NEB used to do it ) and they dont have to even burn scholarships on them.  When LSU won the title 2 years ago their top 18 linemen ( 10 O and 8 D ) 16 of them were from LA. 

[WindyCityHog]

You bring up a good point Hogsanity....

Anyone have an idea WHY Arkansas doesn't produce a plethora of in-state talent?  Population is one thing (and Arkansas is squarely in the middle of the pack in that one).....

[idochog]

If you look at all the top SEC teams their OL and DL are poaded with primarily in sate talent. They can use their out of state recruiting to get skill players. ARK has to get both line men and skill from out of state. Makes it really hard. Especially when alot of these teams get so many in state linemen to walk on ( kind of like how NEB used to do it ) and they dont have to even burn scholarships on them. When LSU won the title 2 years ago their top 18 linemen ( 10 O and 8 D ) 16 of them were from LA.

Iowa doesnt seem to have a problem.  Neither does Nebraska.

[hogsanity]

Well for one we have something like 199 high school football teams.  Many which dont field more than 13 or 14 players.  Hard to develope the ones with actual talent in a setting like this.  Plus, outside of a handful, Ar high school coaches are dreadful.  When u still see offenses like the dead t and single wing being run?  Alot of kids just dont play because it isnt fun.  One team 2 years ago played 10 games and had 3 completed passes all year, wow! thrilling.

And population is a HUGE difference.  Look at the numbers of people under the age of 18 in Arand the compare it to any other state in the SEC, the disparity is gigantic.     

[Big Papa Satan]

Out of 344 high schools, oh, only around 185 of them play football.

Out of that approximate 185, only around 80 of them come from schools that are bigger than 350 students or so.

Smaller schools = less coaches, less coaches = less development of players.

[Big Papa Satan]

When u still see offenses like the dead t and single wing being run?  Alot of kids just dont play because it isnt fun.  One team 2 years ago played 10 games and had 3 completed passes all year, wow! thrilling.

My alma mater won nine games in 2003, and completed only four.  Won twelve and state last fall, and only completed fourteen of twenty, and it came from an inverted wishbone offense.

If a kid has to use an excuse that not playing in a passing offense is fun, then he really didn't want to play to begin with.

Besides, Arkansas is known for being ahead of the curve when it comes to passing.

[hogsanity]

When u still see offenses like the dead t and single wing being run? Alot of kids just dont play because it isnt fun. One team 2 years ago played 10 games and had 3 completed passes all year, wow! thrilling.

My alma mater won nine games in 2003, and completed only four. Won twelve and state last fall, and only completed fourteen of twenty, and it came from an inverted wishbone offense.

 

If a kid has to use an excuse that not playing in a passing offense is fun, then he really didn't want to play to begin with.

Besides, Arkansas is known for being ahead of the curve when it comes to passing.

Didnt say there reason was right or wrong, but Ill bet that there are some good football players who dont play becuase of that.  Especially receiver types. 

The bigger issue is the unreal # of small schools.  Each team may only have one or 2 with any real talent that could be developed but it isnt happening.  Plus, with this conversation being about linemen, they may not get the exposure to attract college coaches attention, and they may have a coach who doesnt know how to get that attention for them.

YEs Ar has been ahead of the curve in passing because of a very small # of coaches, Nashville in the early 90's  Malzahn at Hughes and Shiloh, Lunney at FS Side, and Peacock when he was at GW, but AR highschool FB for the majority is a run oriented game which, as fundamentally sound and sucessful as it may be, is neither fun to watch or play.

[WindyCityHog]

Any belief that NWA is the "great" recruiting ground?  It seems that's where the most interest lies....

[Big Papa Satan]

but AR highschool FB for the majority is a run oriented game which, as fundamentally sound and sucessful as it may be, is neither fun to watch or play.

All of that is correct except for that sentence, which is an opinion.  I prefer run games, and our players like it.

[Big Papa Satan]

Any belief that NWA is the "great" recruiting ground?  It seems that's where the most interest lies....

Not....yet.  NWA usually has a good player or two, but not usually the handful like they have now.

Maybe in 10-15 years, perhaps.

[hogsanity]

but AR highschool FB for the majority is a run oriented game which, as fundamentally sound and sucessful as it may be, is neither fun to watch or play.

All of that is correct except for that sentence, which is an opinion. I prefer run games, and our players like it.

If that is how they HAVE TO PLAY to win, then your coach is doing his job.  And the players will like it as long as they are going to state,  but is that the only style he can coach?,, If so then he obviously isnt very adaptable to his talent.  What if the next Peyton Manning shows up as a SOPh next summer?  Gonna make him a db, or have him hand off 60 times a game? 

[sooie dog]

Well for one we have something like 199 high school football teams. Many which dont field more than 13 or 14 players. Hard to develope the ones with actual talent in a setting like this. Plus, outside of a handful, Ar high school coaches are dreadful. When u still see offenses like the dead t and single wing being run? Alot of kids just dont play because it isnt fun. One team 2 years ago played 10 games and had 3 completed passes all year, wow! thrilling.

And population is a HUGE difference. Look at the numbers of people under the age of 18 in Arand the compare it to any other state in the SEC, the disparity is gigantic.

Maybe but how does it break down when you consider most other SEC states are competing with another SEC, ACC or USA team in state.  In some cases more than one.

[idochog]

Bottom Line, it is winning or it is running something exciting on offense.  Arkansas is doing neither.

We dont win enough and we play a boring play-not-to-lose offense (aka known as beg, pray, chew fingernails and hope the other team screws up and gives you a turnover so you can win in the 4th quarter offense)                         

I could handle our offense if we were winning 9+ games per year.

[hogsanity]

Well for one we have something like 199 high school football teams. Many which dont field more than 13 or 14 players. Hard to develope the ones with actual talent in a setting like this. Plus, outside of a handful, Ar high school coaches are dreadful. When u still see offenses like the dead t and single wing being run? Alot of kids just dont play because it isnt fun. One team 2 years ago played 10 games and had 3 completed passes all year, wow! thrilling.

And population is a HUGE difference. Look at the numbers of people under the age of 18 in Arand the compare it to any other state in the SEC, the disparity is gigantic.

Maybe but how does it break down when you consider most other SEC states are competing with another SEC, ACC or USA team in state. In some cases more than one.

When the talent pool is so large though, take a state like FL  they have kids in FL who are not even in the top 25 in their state at their position who are still being recruited by top 50 d1 schools.  When was the last time the 25th best receiver in AR even played in college much less was recruited.  So in Fl there are either 4 or 5 d1 football schools, so they are splitting up the talent.  AR may have 2 d1 receivers so if they get both they are still behind in recruiting. 

[PorcineSublime]

I have to agree with hogsanity on one point I think he was trying to make. As along as every town big enough to have a stop sign has a HS/ football team, you will not see the talent level increase dramatically. Playing against good/great competition makes you better in every way. You will not play against HS all-americans for the most part playing at Hackett, Dover, Magazine, etc.  While some great players have come from small schools, the sad reality is most aren't able to compete at the level of D1 college ball. Maybe they wouldn't even make the team at Greenwood or Southside, but those who did would be more ready for the level of play at D1. Like I said, you will always have exceptions ( talented running backs seem to transcend) but for the most part you miss out playing on a 15 player team. JMO.WPS.   

[tophawg19]

a lack of proper weight rooms and coaches who know how to get the most out of them is a problem. more in So ark. than north or central . we lose to many good coaches like john outlaw
to out of state programs who pay much better .the competetion with out of state H.S teams
is helping we seem to win more than lose lately .the downside is we are drawing more outside
recruiting pressure on our kids .

[jabohog]

As mentioned, play against better competition makes everyone better. The spring football that started in Arkansas a few years back is responsible, IMO for the better showing against out of state comp. It also has helped increased the college level talent. Our population isn't very large and allot of them are retirees from other states. Not many school age children with that group.