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Discussion about Malzahn as HC [merged threads]

Started by JJHog, November 23, 2007, 08:19:21 am

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GWFan

November 23, 2007, 12:06:20 pm #150
Quote from: jep_hog_fan on November 23, 2007, 12:01:11 pm
Why not do everything we can to hire JJ or Cower, then have Gus brought in as OC/Assistant HC. :razorback:
If JJ or Cower let "us" choose their assistants, then they don't need to be here.

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:07:30 pm #151
Quote from: GWFan on November 23, 2007, 12:05:12 pm
Either you get it, or you don't. ???

Nope.   Its the same reason you see great fighters get built up over time, as the quality of their opposition improves, and they're given time to refine their craft, rather than being thrown in raw with champions.

Gus will make a fine HC;  even from the aspect of simply being around to make connections to other coaches, though, he needs  a few more years.   
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

LongHairedCountryBoar

November 23, 2007, 12:07:54 pm #152
Quote from: PhotHOGrapher on November 23, 2007, 11:52:16 amSaban and Rodriguez?  Why did SC go after SPurrier?  Why did Fla go after Meyer?  Why is A&M supposedly after Tubberville?....

The only one of those to be a success thusfar is Meyer.  I still say it's a crapshoot on experienced hires in this business.

Do you even watch football?

GWFan

November 23, 2007, 12:10:35 pm #153
Quote from: ErieHog on November 23, 2007, 12:07:30 pm
Nope.   Its the same reason you see great fighters get built up over time, as the quality of their opposition improves, and they're given time to refine their craft, rather than being thrown in raw with champions.

Gus will make a fine HC;  even from the aspect of simply being around to make connections to other coaches, though, he needs  a few more years.  
Like I said, either you get it or you don't.
When you have someone with a proven track record at every level, I'll take that over Nutt's prior college experience anyday.

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:11:47 pm #154
Quote from: GWFan on November 23, 2007, 12:10:35 pm
Like I said, either you get it or you don't.
When you have someone with a proven track record at every level, I'll take that over Nutt's prior college experience anyday.

You are in the distinct minority, then.   There's a reason CFB functions like it does-- these are multi-million dollar businesses that rely on the most proven approaches to resolve their problems.   
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

JShipCPA

November 23, 2007, 12:12:04 pm #155
Quote from: hogsanity on November 23, 2007, 11:59:18 am
But SC did not hire Spurrier for his FIRSt job, or Bama Saban, or Fla Meyer.  These guys did not get their first jobs as SEC Hc's.  And, before you point to Stoops and Richt, college fb has changed alot even since they were hired at OU and GA. 

Changed a lot???  How so???

Shoe Strings

November 23, 2007, 12:12:56 pm #156
HDN was younger and had less experience as a head coach when he came to Arkansas than Gus does now.

The ability to work with good people, keep good people on staff and have good character will allow him to get whatever experience he lacks.  He'll be a coach that runs the offense and allows the DC to do his job.

There's dozens of coaches in the country that do have experience and who would love to work with/for Gus.  That's the key.

Pignutx32

November 23, 2007, 12:13:47 pm #157
Quote from: ErieHog on November 23, 2007, 12:03:20 pm
College football is an entirely different beast;  if it were simply  'no more impressive than a HS resume',  you'd see masses of quality HS coaches making the leap from HS coaching to DII or DIII coaching.   It simply doesn't happen that often.

Gus is a great man, and as fine a football coach as you will ever see, but he is not ready for prime-time.

I understand what you are saying, but I wonder how does anybody know he isn't ready for prime-time?  How long would it take to be ready for prime time?  After 3 years coaching in the SEC would he be ready?  I figure a coach at the UofA should have a 3 year pass coming in to this mess.  I kinda feel the same way about it as I did last year with Mitch....we knew he would make rookie mistakes....and we were fine with it....we (not Nutt) knew he would improve after a year or two and be a great QB just because of his potential...I feel like Gus has great potential, but he will be taken by someone else well before we are in a position to get him if we don't do it now. 

Don't get me wrong...I'm just debating the principle...I don't think we have much of a chance at getting him anyway.

PigWig

November 23, 2007, 12:13:51 pm #158 Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 12:33:05 pm by PigWig
Gus for Coach

darkhogfan

November 23, 2007, 12:15:06 pm #159
Luke Smith-

Searcy,AR
"She had a weakness for writers...and I was never that good with words anyways"-Ben Nichols

kimjongsqUeAl

November 23, 2007, 12:15:27 pm #160
BE - LR
I'm on the Gus Bus
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
- Thomas Jefferson

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge...
- God

WoooPigSooie

November 23, 2007, 12:16:16 pm #161
Quote from: ErieHog on November 23, 2007, 12:07:30 pm
Nope.   Its the same reason you see great fighters get built up over time, as the quality of their opposition improves, and they're given time to refine their craft, rather than being thrown in raw with champions.

Gus will make a fine HC;  even from the aspect of simply being around to make connections to other coaches, though, he needs  a few more years.  


...to get the experience and become successful at another major university.  Yeah we should wait until then.   :-\
"The Heisman is supposed to define college football's most outstanding football player.

I saw him here Saturday night. Darren McFadden."

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:16:28 pm #162
Quote from: Pignutx32 on November 23, 2007, 12:13:47 pm
I understand what you are saying, but I wonder how does anybody know he isn't ready for prime-time?  How long would it take to be ready for prime time?  After 3 years coaching in the SEC would he be ready?  I figure a coach at the UofA should have a 3 year pass coming in to this mess.  I kinda feel the same way about it as I did last year with Mitch....we knew he would make rookie mistakes....and we were fine with it....we (not Nutt) knew he would improve after a year or two and be a great QB just because of his potential...I feel like Gus has great potential, but he will be taken by someone else well before we are in a position to get him if we don't do it now. 

Don't get me wrong...I'm just debating the principle...I don't think we have much of a chance at getting him anyway.

I'd be fine with it,  supposing he got a 3 year free pass-- and I'd be astonished if anyone is ever given a multi-year free pass at Arkansas ever again.   You want serious growing pains?  Hire him now,  sit through 3 years of struggle, and you'll have a winner at the end.    Most folks aren't willing to wait that long for some positive sign in the program, though-- and the PTB are still being burned for their last Free Pass.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

Dugann

November 23, 2007, 12:18:29 pm #163
Randy from Mena
By Gosh He Didn't Come Back To PAINT!!!!

Semper Hogelis

November 23, 2007, 12:18:33 pm #164
Sorry, Coaching in the high school playoffs 2 years ago isn't the same has coaching a BCS team, or a SEC team. Besides. Who says he would want the job. Jimmy J. is a retired Sr. Citizen living in the Keys, and Butch hasn't won anywhere sense Miami in 2000, and Gus is two years out of High School. Is this the best we can do?
I need a monkey, a football and a bucket of grease. HY coaching search 2019....

ich bin schwein

November 23, 2007, 12:19:39 pm #165
Quote from: rude1 on November 23, 2007, 09:04:57 am
That is hardly a resume that would warrant a job as a major D1 coach. Can he recruit nationally? He was also wide receivers position coach, I didn't notice any noticeable improvement in that area while he was here. I am just not convinced at this point, and those who are in a big hurry to hire him as HC are thinking with their hearts and not their minds.

Tried to respond earlier when the threads were being combined.  It would appear to me that your idea of a resume would be someone with head coaching experience at a major D-I school.  He doesn't have that but if that's your idea of what it takes to be successful I must respectfully disagree.  What it takes to be successful imo is drive, intelligence, charisma, integrity, enthusiasm and most importantly of all opportunity.  Gus posesses all of the first things I mentioned in far larger abundance than anyone we've had here for 10 years.  There is a reason college coaches were paying to go to his seminars and buy his book.  Someone will give him the opportunity.  I just hope it's us.

hogs25

November 23, 2007, 12:19:47 pm #166
Quote from: ErieHog on November 23, 2007, 11:59:05 am
Sorry, but no.    He has less than 2 full years as a college coach.

HS isn't college;  yes, he's innovative;  yes, he's smart;  yes, he's motivated and ethical;  no, he's not experienced in major college football-- yet.  His day will come.

HDN HAD 1 YEAR OF DIVISION I EXPERIENCE AT BOISE STATE!  He went 4 and freaking 7 on record and we took him.  Springdale a few year's ago could've beat Murry St.

JShipCPA

November 23, 2007, 12:20:01 pm #167
Quote from: ErieHog on November 23, 2007, 12:16:28 pm
I'd be fine with it,  supposing he got a 3 year free pass-- and I'd be astonished if anyone is ever given a multi-year free pass at Arkansas ever again.   You want serious growing pains?  Hire him now,  sit through 3 years of struggle, and you'll have a winner at the end.    Most folks aren't willing to wait that long for some positive sign in the program, though-- and the PTB are still being burned for their last Free Pass.

I am afraid us Hog fans aren't going to have much of a choice regardless; 2-3 bleak years ahead seems reasonably certain...

Why not let GM cut his teeth during this time???  Do we really have much more to lose if he didn't work out???

Donny2665

November 23, 2007, 12:21:49 pm #168
Hackett Hog Fan

Hackett, Ar
This life's hard, but it's harder if you're stupid.~George V.Higgins

Ignorance is a voluntary misfortune!~Nicolas Ling

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.~Mark Twain

bankerman

November 23, 2007, 12:22:10 pm #169
Hire Him.

PigWig

November 23, 2007, 12:22:46 pm #170
I'm in favor.

Ripsnort

November 23, 2007, 12:22:48 pm #171
Jeff Ripple
Springdale,AR
Image exceeds signature guidelines.

Semper Hogelis

November 23, 2007, 12:22:58 pm #172
Are you compairing Gus's experience as a head high school coach when you say that. That's the only HC experience he has. So you must be. You cant compare Arkansas high school football to coaching on the college level. There not even close.
Quote from: Shoe Strings on November 23, 2007, 12:12:56 pm
HDN was younger and had less experience as a head coach when he came to Arkansas than Gus does now.

The ability to work with good people, keep good people on staff and have good character will allow him to get whatever experience he lacks.  He'll be a coach that runs the offense and allows the DC to do his job.

There's dozens of coaches in the country that do have experience and who would love to work with/for Gus.  That's the key.
I need a monkey, a football and a bucket of grease. HY coaching search 2019....

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:23:52 pm #173
Quote from: hogs25 on November 23, 2007, 12:19:47 pm
HDN HAD 1 YEAR OF DIVISION I EXPERIENCE AT BOISE STATE!  He went 4 and freaking 7 on record and we took him.  Springdale a few year's ago could've beat Murry St.

That's silly.    We all love Gus, and he produced some of the finest teams ever in the state of Arkansas, but there is a reason why not every HS kid plays CFB, and why kids, even DII kids, are recruited.

No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

judgeroyswine

November 23, 2007, 12:25:41 pm #174
Andy
Piedmont, OK
Overcoming the gloom, despair, and agony of Hog fandom since 1961.

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:25:50 pm #175
Quote from: JShipCPA on November 23, 2007, 12:20:01 pm
I am afraid us Hog fans aren't going to have much of a choice regardless; 2-3 bleak years ahead seems reasonably certain...

Why not let GM cut his teeth during this time???  Do we really have much more to lose if he didn't work out???

Reasonably certain, based upon what, exactly?

The SEC schedule gets a little tougher, certainly.  We get TCU rather than Texas, twice in the next 3 years.   We've redshirted an entire offensive line in the past 2 years, so should be in fairly decent shape up front;  we're still thin in the secondary, and will need help on the DL;  we have the prospect of excellent special teams scoring in Tejada for the next several years--  the cupboard is not full, but it is not empty, either.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

vonPete

November 23, 2007, 12:26:29 pm #176
   Marc von Borstel   Farmington, AR.

bankerman

November 23, 2007, 12:28:03 pm #177
Quote from: Semper Hogelis on November 23, 2007, 12:22:58 pm
Are you compairing Gus's experience as a head high school coach when you say that. That's the only HC experience he has. So you must be. You cant compare Arkansas high school football to coaching on the college level. There not even close.

Question for you Semper, or Erie, or anyone else that is against hiring Gus due to lack of experience on the college level-

Who, in your opinion, is a better coach...
                   -Gus or Ed Oregon?
                   -Gus or Syvester Croom?
                   -Gus or Houston Nutt?

hogs25

November 23, 2007, 12:28:39 pm #178
Richie Bobcat

Dumas, Arkansas

Get on da bus Gus.

MysticHog

November 23, 2007, 12:29:31 pm #179
Quote from: Semper Hogelis on November 23, 2007, 12:18:33 pm
Sorry, Coaching in the high school playoffs 2 years ago isn't the same has coaching a BCS team, or a SEC team. Besides. Who says he would want the job. Jimmy J. is a retired Sr. Citizen living in the Keys, and Butch hasn't won anywhere sense Miami in 2000, and Gus is two years out of High School. Is this the best we can do?

What BCS team has Nutt coached huggie?

honkytonkman

November 23, 2007, 12:46:18 pm #180
Someone has to get Shula on the Gus bandwagon if it's going to happen.

ErieHog

November 23, 2007, 12:48:46 pm #181
Quote from: bankerman on November 23, 2007, 12:28:03 pm
Question for you Semper, or Erie, or anyone else that is against hiring Gus due to lack of experience on the college level-

Who, in your opinion, is a better coach...
                   -Gus or Ed Oregon?
                   -Gus or Syvester Croom?
                   -Gus or Houston Nutt?


Sorry for the delay; I  lost track of the thread through the merges.

It depends entirely on what kind of coach I want.

If I want an OC, I hire Gus.
If I want a DC, I hire Croom
If I want a DL Coach, I hire Orgeron.
If I want a band director, I hire Nutt.

If I hire a HC today, I hire Croom out of that bunch-- what he has done at MSU is phenomenal-- Starkville may not be the end of the earth, but you can certainly see it from the city limits.   

If I hire a HC in 4 years, I want Gus.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
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