C-USA Talent And SEC Talent

[Gus the head hog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

[GeneKeadysRug]

i don't call it "huggerism" more like reality

[Gus the head hog]

i don't call it "huggerism" more like reality

Your in Denial!

[ListenHereMister]

Who cares?

[razorbacker231]

he is tromping c usa teams with c usa talent.

if he were in sunbelt, he would be tromping sunbelt teams with sunbelt talent.

if he were in SEC he would be tromping SEC teams with SEC talent.

if he were......aww you get it by now, if not there is no hope for you

[Gus the head hog]

he is tromping c usa teams with c usa talent.

if he were in sunbelt, he would be tromping sunbelt teams with sunbelt talent.

if he were in SEC he would be tromping SEC teams with SEC talent.

if he were......

AMEN BROTHA!!

[TechHog]

I can't wait until Gus hangs 600 yards on Reggie and Houston.  Liberty Bowl anyone?  December 29th 3:30 pm.  Looks like "high school" will have the last laugh.  That is if the BAC has the BALLS to accept a liberty bowl berth.  I cannot wait!!!

[headalphageek]

How about this....Good Job GUS...we love you and miss you...

[musiccityhog]

he is tromping c usa teams with c usa talent.

if he were in sunbelt, he would be tromping sunbelt teams with sunbelt talent.

if he were in SEC he would be tromping SEC teams with SEC talent.

if he were......aww you get it by now, if not there is no hope for you

This is a great point!!! People act like he's got a roster of SEC athletes, and he's running over C-USA opponents with them. +1 to you for making a great point!!!

[djgaffer]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

[Destin2bAhog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

I call it BCS vs Non BCS...deal with it.  I am sure their saying the same thing at Hawaii.  Let's all forget SOS, BCS vs Non BCS and focus on W-L records.  Based on your logic Hawaii should be playing for the MNC?  Right....

[Gus the head hog]

They will be 3 wins better than last year before it's all over.

[Gus the head hog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

I call it BCS vs Non BCS...deal with it.  I am sure their saying the same thing at Hawaii.  Let's all forget SOS, BCS vs Non BCS and focus on W-L records.  Based on your logic Hawaii should be playing for the MNC?  Right....

The BCS is all money. Thats all it is. The BCS confrences can bring more fans. This means more money. This all started many many years ago so now the small schools have no chance because BCS already has it's little club formed.
I think they should take the Cofrence champs of each confrence and put them in a playoff! Only makes sense.

[dallashog83]

I don't know Gus, have never met Gus, and probably would not recognize him if he walked into a room and stood next to me.  Howeve, I do know football, and I have been impressed with his offensive schemes the past two years.  I feel he has done a good job of maximizing his talent while at Tulsa, and now wish he had been given that opportunity last year at Arkansas.

[Gus the head hog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

I call it BCS vs Non BCS...deal with it.  I am sure their saying the same thing at Hawaii.  Let's all forget SOS, BCS vs Non BCS and focus on W-L records.  Based on your logic Hawaii should be playing for the MNC?  Right....

The BCS is all money. Thats all it is. The BCS confrences can bring more fans. This means more money. This all started many many years ago so now the small schools have no chance because BCS already has it's little club formed.
I think they should take the Cofrence champs of each confrence and put them in a playoff! Only makes sense.

[PorcineSublime]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

You know I always hear about the HUNH "it wears down the D". OK you tell me, would it wear down a D more to have seven threee and outs in a game that take up an average of 2:00 per drive or seven scoring drives of three minutes each. A good defense will hold the other team in check and once the game is in hand you can slow the game down some, but stay agressive enough to keep the other team from coming back.

Tulsa does not have the hosses on D to play with quality teams. Didn't have them last year either. I will give Todd time to bring his D around and then you will see the beauty of the HUNH.

[Gus the head hog]

Screw it. I'm willing to make a wager with anyone her that if AR. meets Tulsa in the Lib bowl I'll put my money on Tulsa. PM me if interested.

[djgaffer]

Screw it. I'm willing to make a wager with anyone her that if AR. meets Tulsa in the Lib bowl I'l put my money on Tulsa. PM me if interested.

If that were to happen, Tulsa would have a great chance.  You'd have a team happy to be in the Liberty bowl versus a team who had lofty expectations who fell there and would have no football coach.  That's basically how upsets happen.  I'm not sure what you'd learn.  IF we would have played them in October or even now, we would beat them badly.

[Lake City Hog]

  Your stats are impressive and if you only take into account the raw numbers things don't look much improved, however if you take more factors into account things may look different. For example, how many players graduated from the defense, is this a totally new defensive scheme from previous years, is the schedule the same as last year? I could go on and on with factors that you haven't considered and if considered might change even your outlook.
  This all boils down to personal preference and personally I prefer Gus!!!!!!

[djgaffer]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

You know I always hear about the HUNH "it wears down the D". OK you tell me, would it wear down a D more to have seven threee and outs in a game that take up an average of 2:00 per drive or seven scoring drives of three minutes each. A good defense will hold the other team in check and once the game is in hand you can slow the game down some, but stay agressive enough to keep the other team from coming back.

Tulsa does not have the hosses on D to play with quality teams. Didn't have them last year either. I will give Todd time to bring his D around and then you will see the beauty of the HUNH.

If you don't believe it has an effect, how did the Tulsa D go so far South this year statistically?  They went from 21st to 104th. 

[Gus the head hog]

I wouldn't put your money on Ar. in oct. or now. Ar.'s d isn't going to stop Tulsa. Tulsa's d isn't going to stop Ar. So it all comes down to mistakes.

[razorbacker231]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

[djgaffer]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

[razorbacker231]

tulsa offence actually averaged more time on the clock then their defence.  i am sure you did not watch him in highschool.

here is another stat for you if interested look up how many times he runs the ball at tulsa as opposed to pass.  i bet you would be impressed.

[razorbacker231]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

ok so blame the head coach or defensive coordinator.  gus is doing his job and putting points on the board.  that is all he was hired to do.

[Hogginitall]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

Learn how to spell conference and develop, then get back with me.  Thanks.  Oh yeah, and it is Gus'.

[djgaffer]

tulsa offence actually averaged more time on the clock then their defence.  i am sure you did not watch him in highschool.

here is another stat for you if interested look up how many times he runs the ball at tulsa as opposed to pass.  i bet you would be impressed.

I watched many games of his in high school.  Even when he first got to Springdale and ran it most downs. 

I've also never mentioned run/pass ratio.  I'm guessing you are lumping me in with other arguments because you're arguing points I'm not making.

[big john]

but he is a winner my friend .

[Gus the head hog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

Learn how to spell conference and develop, then get back with me.  Thanks.  Oh yeah, and it is Gus'.

Wow! Smart guy! Maybe you should be a english teacher!

[djgaffer]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

ok so blame the head coach or defensive coordinator.  gus is doing his job and putting points on the board.  that is all he was hired to do.

This is a team game.  They work together.

[The Max Swineberg 7]

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

The same as last year?

One win better with 3 games left to play.  Oh, and they returned 2 offensive starters losing 4 of 5 linemen and their top 3 receivers.

The problem here is that most of the people arguing haven't seen Tulsa play at all or maybe once this year.  Some of us have seen this year's games vs last year's games.  It is a different offense.

But don't worry about it.  Just stick your head back in the sand.

[razorbacker231]

tulsa offence actually averaged more time on the clock then their defence.  i am sure you did not watch him in highschool.

here is another stat for you if interested look up how many times he runs the ball at tulsa as opposed to pass.  i bet you would be impressed.

I watched many games of his in high school.  Even when he first got to Springdale and ran it most downs. 

I've also never mentioned run/pass ratio.  I'm guessing you are lumping me in with other arguments because you're arguing points I'm not making.

ok my bad, i had some of those posted before i read your repies, i ws rollin

i dont have those answers, but to blame gus is unreasonable.  i did like lchog's responce on something along the lines of

how many d startes graduated? did they change their d scheme? has there been a coaching change on that side of the ball?

[Hogginitall]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

Learn how to spell conference and develop, then get back with me.  Thanks.  Oh yeah, and it is Gus'.

Wow! Smart guy! Maybe you should be a english teacher!

Nope.  Just a guy that passed 4th grade English class.  People won't take your points seriously if every other word is misspelled.  Just trying to help you out.

[djgaffer]

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

The same as last year?

One win better with 3 games left to play.  Oh, and they returned 2 offensive starters losing 4 of 5 linemen and their top 3 receivers.

The problem here is that most of the people arguing haven't seen Tulsa play at all or maybe once this year.  Some of us have seen this year's games vs last year's games.  It is a different offense.

But don't worry about it.  Just stick your head back in the sand.

Statistically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  Yes, they have more wins.  Wins do not always equal statistics.  There are other factors including luck, turnovers, etc.  But statistics are a good barometer. 

The offense looks different.  I'm sure the defense does too.  But when you put the two together, Tulsa isn't that different from a year ago, sand or no sand.  This is a program that had their coach get a huge promotion a year ago.  They were already pretty good, and they still are.

[razorbacker231]

so djgaffer, if his offence is taking a toll on defence, and it is not from time of possession what would you say is hurting them?

[djgaffer]

tulsa offence actually averaged more time on the clock then their defence.  i am sure you did not watch him in highschool.

here is another stat for you if interested look up how many times he runs the ball at tulsa as opposed to pass.  i bet you would be impressed.

I watched many games of his in high school.  Even when he first got to Springdale and ran it most downs. 

I've also never mentioned run/pass ratio.  I'm guessing you are lumping me in with other arguments because you're arguing points I'm not making.

ok my bad, i had some of those posted before i read your repies, i ws rollin

i dont have those answers, but to blame gus is unreasonable.  i did like lchog's responce on something along the lines of

how many d startes graduated? did they change their d scheme? has there been a coaching change on that side of the ball?

I don't know how many starters they lost.  I do know that most here don't give David Lee any slack because he's missing a QB and 3 of the top 4 receivers from a year ago.  Colleges have players graduate.  It's part of this business.

I don't blame Gus for a bad defense.  The coach gave him the system and that's how they want to play.  But they will never have a dominant defense as long as that's how they choose to play.  They have a better chance in that league than they would here, but they will always give up yards and points. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Gus is doing a good job.  People just act like he invented football.  That is unreasonable.

[djgaffer]

so djgaffer, if his offence is taking a toll on defence, and it is not from time of possession what would you say is hurting them?

Good question.
You'd have to dig a lot deeper statistically.  Beyond TOP.  Gus says in his book that he wants to extend the game to 5 quarters.  Basically he wants to add that many more plays to the game.  So, how many more plays is the D playing?  More plays leads to fatigue, especially if you don't have a deep defense.

Also, it effects your practice.  You only get 20 hours, so most of your practice time is spent in the spread.  It's not as physical.  In general, the offense is moving sideways.  The line is often moving backwards.  Because of the reads you have to make on defense, you don't instinctively act as aggressively as you might if you spent more time in middle drill.

You also have the element of the quick strike offense.  It can put your defense right back on the field, even after scoring points.  That can lead to physical and mental fatigue.

All of this is by design.  It's part of the scheme.  In the end, it's all about who scores more points, just like any other scheme.  It just has historically been difficult for a team to execute this for 12 weeks without slipping up and losing a few.  A lot of teams run it, then change it, then even move on.  It's a lot like the run and shoot as a philosophy...  a lot of teams ran it, put up miles of yards and points, but didn't win championships.  It's largely extinct.

In the end it's just about what you choose to run.  If he comes here and runs it here, I'll hate it... but I'll cheer for it.

[Lake City Hog]

That's a BS response, Arkansas has the QB that the head coach wanted as well as the receivers. D. Lee is catching hell because we have yet to see an NFL style passing attack!!!!!!

[razorbacker231]

i know that i might get slammed for referring to this cause it is high school not college, but springdale imposed the mercy rule on every team they played exept the last playoff game and state championship game i believe.

mercy rule does not go into affect if both teams are scoring alot.  it only goes into affect when you have put .....i believe you have to not just score, but OUTSCORE them by 35 points.  to do that, your defence has to be doing something right.

[djgaffer]

That's a BS response, Arkansas has the QB that the head coach wanted as well as the receivers. D. Lee is catching hell because we have yet to see an NFL style passing attack!!!!!!

You think the coaching staff was planning to be without Monk and Cleveland?  That's what they want?

Do you think their absense could have anything to do with the development of a passing attack? 

Do you know that we are more efficient than we were a year ago, now ranked 28th in the nation in passing efficiency?

[djgaffer]

i know that i might get slammed for referring to this cause it is high school not college, but springdale imposed the mercy rule on every team they played exept the last playoff game and state championship game i believe.

mercy rule does not go into affect if both teams are scoring alot.  it only goes into affect when you have put .....i believe you have to not just score, but OUTSCORE them by 35 points.  to do that, your defence has to be doing something right.

They were an awesome team.  They had 6 players on offense that are playing D1 or close (UCA).  Frequently, they were playing against guys who are now working at Subway after class.  That's not to take away from anything they did, but that was an incredible football team.  I took relatives from out of state to watch them play.  But they could have won any way they chose to play. 

[razorbacker231]

i know that i might get slammed for referring to this cause it is high school not college, but springdale imposed the mercy rule on every team they played exept the last playoff game and state championship game i believe.

mercy rule does not go into affect if both teams are scoring alot.  it only goes into affect when you have put .....i believe you have to not just score, but OUTSCORE them by 35 points.  to do that, your defence has to be doing something right.

They were an awesome team.  They had 6 players on offense that are playing D1 or close (UCA).  Frequently, they were playing against guys who are now working at Subway after class.  That's not to take away from anything they did, but that was an incredible football team.  I took relatives from out of state to watch them play.  But they could have won any way they chose to play. 

alright, i will take that, but some of those opponents are also playing D 1.  and of the 6 that went D 1, all 6 offence?  i dont know of any of the defensive players that did go D 1

[djgaffer]

i know that i might get slammed for referring to this cause it is high school not college, but springdale imposed the mercy rule on every team they played exept the last playoff game and state championship game i believe.

mercy rule does not go into affect if both teams are scoring alot.  it only goes into affect when you have put .....i believe you have to not just score, but OUTSCORE them by 35 points.  to do that, your defence has to be doing something right.

They were an awesome team.  They had 6 players on offense that are playing D1 or close (UCA).  Frequently, they were playing against guys who are now working at Subway after class.  That's not to take away from anything they did, but that was an incredible football team.  I took relatives from out of state to watch them play.  But they could have won any way they chose to play. 

alright, i will take that, but some of those opponents are also playing D 1.  and of the 6 that went D 1, were not 5 of them on offence?  maybe all 6?  i dont know of any of the defensive players that did go D 1

I was going by memory.
Mustain
Williams
Webb
Pinalto
Norman
Clinkscale (UCA)

I think that's it on offense.  Unless you want to count Tejada.

EDIT:  DUH:  Cleveland is another one

[HogSophist]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

so all teams that put in this type of philosophy (like the spurrier/florida teams) give up tons of points?

[razorbacker231]

yeah, i reread yours and saw i goofed.  but still i saw no defencive players go D1, yet they were still very effective.

[djgaffer]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

so all teams that put in this type of philosophy (like the spurrier/florida teams) give up tons of points?

Not all... those Florida teams were amazingly talented.  Talent trumps almost all schemes.  But if you don't have a talent advantage, you're going to give up yards and points if that's the way you choose to play. 

[djgaffer]

yeah, i reread yours and saw i goofed.  but still i saw no defencive players go D1, yet they were still very effective.

Many of those guys played both ways when the game mattered.  You can throw in Jamie Jones and some other guys that were just good football players, although not D1.

It's hard to compare Springdale.  They were just an amazing high school football team.  To quote a local punching bag, they scored so fast it messed you up. 

[Hogginitall]

If you're going to play no huddle you're going to add up more yards and points. 
If you play in a conference where the team speed isn't as good as it is in the SEC, there will be more space in the secondary, it will be even more effective.  If your receivers are better than their defensive backs, than it's almost indefensible.
All of this is part of the philosophy, and that's fine. 

But you have to add it all together and see what effect it has on your defense as well.  If you add the defense to the mix and you look at Tulsa's production versus 2006:
They have produced 156.1 more yards per game than in 2006.
They have allowed 154.2 more yards than in '06.  The net gain versus '06 is 1.9 yards.

They have scored 12.3 more points per game than in 2006
They have allowed 13.7 more than a year ago.  They have a net loss in scoring margin of 1.4 points per game.

Basically, they're the same as they were a year ago.  They just run more plays and are 1 win better.

next argument please.  here is time of possession all season.  if you dont trust me  use this

http://tulsahurricane.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/tuls-m-footbl-sched.html   and go to the box scores

against
ulm  33;44
byu 35:04
ou    30:01
uab  33:08
utep 28:13
marshal 30:41
ucf 27:08
smu 35:35
tulane 32:57
houston 28:53
army 27:14


and those times were pretty even in all 4 quarters for the most part, so i dont want to here about how his offence is hard on a defence.

I have never mentioned time of possession.  Would you please give more explanations as to why Tulsa is giving up 154 yards a game more than they did a year ago?  The offense is a factor in the defense.  When you sell out to the philosophy, you know it going in.  You're choosing to try to win 41-38.

so all teams that put in this type of philosophy (like the spurrier/florida teams) give up tons of points?

Spurrier/Florida don't run the HUNH.  They run the spread offense.

[silvertip]

tulsa offence actually averaged more time on the clock then their defence.  i am sure you did not watch him in highschool.

here is another stat for you if interested look up how many times he runs the ball at tulsa as opposed to pass.  i bet you would be impressed.

I watched many games of his in high school.  Even when he first got to Springdale and ran it most downs. 

I've also never mentioned run/pass ratio.  I'm guessing you are lumping me in with other arguments because you're arguing points I'm not making.

ok my bad, i had some of those posted before i read your repies, i ws rollin

i dont have those answers, but to blame gus is unreasonable.  i did like lchog's responce on something along the lines of

how many d startes graduated? did they change their d scheme? has there been a coaching change on that side of the ball?

I don't know how many starters they lost.  I do know that most here don't give David Lee any slack because he's missing a QB and 3 of the top 4 receivers from a year ago.  Colleges have players graduate.  It's part of this business.

I don't blame Gus for a bad defense.  The coach gave him the system and that's how they want to play.  But they will never have a dominant defense as long as that's how they choose to play.  They have a better chance in that league than they would here, but they will always give up yards and points. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Gus is doing a good job.  People just act like he invented football.  That is unreasonable.

The most relevant thing you've said in this post, djgaffer, is "I don't know."

You make the ridiculous assumption that the style of offense determines the productivity of the defense. You make another riduculous assumption that this year's Tulsa team is the "same team" as last year. When you have NO idea what personnel shanges took place on either side of the ball.

And then of course, you make NO attempt to compare strength-of-schedule between the 2 seasons. But based on all these ridiculous assumptions and lack of research---you want to compare stats from 2 different teams and draw conclusions about the effect of Gus's offense on the Tulsa D. A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

[War Warthog]

I'm sick of hearing all the huggers say Gus has got the number 1 offense in the nation because of the weak confrence he's in It's not like he's winning in C-USA with SEC talent. He's winning with C-USA talent so it's all equal people. Come up with a better argument than Gus's confrence. Imagine what he could do with SEC talent. Especially if he had more than one season to develope the offense! :razorback:

But the spread won't work in the SEC!!!

Just ask Florida.