Spot on article about Ole Miss...

[hogsanity]

I said they should finish ranked in the top 25 every year with good coaching. Arkansas hasn't had very much good coaching since joining the SEC. It isn't what the program HAS done, it's what the program is CAPABLE of doing.

Again, that is your subjective opinion. Every coach in my lifetime has followed the same pattern. Get a far above average group of in state kids in one or two classes, then a year or two later the Hogs are really good for a year or two then they drop back off until the next above average in state group comes along. Broyles teams were that way, Holtz, Hatfield, Ford, Nutt, BP. BB has not had that type of instate group yet. 

I do not care how great of an x o guy a coach is, if he is trying to beat a team that just flat out has better talent, talent is going to win 99% of the time.

[bphi11ips]

Again, that is your subjective opinion. Every coach in my lifetime has followed the same pattern. Get a far above average group of in state kids in one or two classes, then a year or two later the Hogs are really good for a year or two then they drop back off until the next above average in state group comes along. Broyles teams were that way, Holtz, Hatfield, Ford, Nutt, BP. BB has not had that type of instate group yet. 

I do not care how great of an x o guy a coach is, if he is trying to beat a team that just flat out has better talent, talent is going to win 99% of the time.

There's plenty of subjectivity in this as well.  Plus, I'd argue with you about Arkansas talent being the determining factor in success. 

I posted some research a few weeks ago that I'll post from memory as best as I can.  Between 1958 and 1989 - the Broyles/Holtz/Hatfield years, Arkansas finished in the Top 20 19 times.  12 of those were Top 10 finishes.

Those years weren't cyclical based on homegrown talent.  I'll give some examples, again based on memory. Too busy today to research precisely. 

Lance Alworth was from Mississippi. 

I think Fred Marshall was from Dallas.  I know Bill Montgomery was and think Chuck Dicus was, too. 

Joe Ferguson was from Shreveport, but his teams weren't that great.

Dickey Morton and Ike Forte were from Texas.  Ron Calcagni was from Ohio, I think, and Kevin Scanlon was from Pennsylvania, maybe. 

Greg Koch and R.C. Thielman were from Houston.

Steve Little was from Kansas. 

Quinn Grovey was from Oklahoma.

I could go on givem time, but the theory that Arkansas football rises and falls with in-state talent is a Hogville myth, based on my memory of about 47 years of Arkansas football.  I agree that Jimmies and Joes beat x's and o's, but not 99% of the time.  But the head coach matters much more than you give him credit for.  So does the strength of competition over the entire season.

[hogsanity]

There's plenty of subjectivity in this as well.  Plus, I'd argue with you about Arkansas talent being the determining factor in success. 

I posted some research a few weeks ago that I'll post from memory as best as I can.  Between 1958 and 1989 - the Broyles/Holtz/Hatfield years, Arkansas finished in the Top 20 19 times.  12 of those were Top 10 finishes.

Those years weren't cyclical based on homegrown talent.  I'll give some examples, again based on memory. Too busy today to research precisely. 

Lance Alworth was from Mississippi. 

I think Fred Marshall was from Dallas.  I know Bill Montgomery was and think Chuck Dicus was, too. 

Joe Ferguson was from Shreveport, but his teams weren't that great.

Dickey Morton and Ike Forte were from Texas.  Ron Calcagni was from Ohio, I think, and Kevin Scanlon was from Pennsylvania, maybe. 

Greg Koch and R.C. Thielman were from Houston.

Steve Little was from Kansas. 

Quinn Grovey was from Oklahoma.

I could go on givem time, but the theory that Arkansas football rises and falls with in-state talent is a Hogville myth, based on my memory of about 47 years of Arkansas football.  I agree that Jimmies and Joes beat x's and o's, but not 99% of the time.  But the head coach matters much more than you give him credit for.  So does the strength of competition over the entire season.

No, it is no myth. You throw out a handful of names. Where were the receivers and rb's from that Calcagni was handing off to. The guys blocking for them, they guys making tackles.

BUt, lets assume for a moment you are right. That still goes back to the heart of the problem for Arkansas football. The program must convince SEC level players to bypass their instate school or schools, and in many cases also bypass other sec schools to come to Fayetteville. And, unlike Bama or Ga that only goes out of state to get special players, the Hogs must go out of state just to sustain the program.

[gchamblee]

I think Arkansas is better than middle of the pack. I think we have been underperforming. I also think the coach knows this and is working on it.

[HiggiePiggy]

I think Arkansas is better than middle of the pack. I think we have been underperforming. I also think the coach knows this and is working on it.

So what is Arkansas since joining the SEC? Our average over the 25 years says we are Middle of the pack. 

[GuvHog]

There's plenty of subjectivity in this as well.  Plus, I'd argue with you about Arkansas talent being the determining factor in success. 

I posted some research a few weeks ago that I'll post from memory as best as I can.  Between 1958 and 1989 - the Broyles/Holtz/Hatfield years, Arkansas finished in the Top 20 19 times.  12 of those were Top 10 finishes.

Those years weren't cyclical based on homegrown talent.  I'll give some examples, again based on memory. Too busy today to research precisely. 

Lance Alworth was from Mississippi. 

I think Fred Marshall was from Dallas.  I know Bill Montgomery was and think Chuck Dicus was, too. 

Joe Ferguson was from Shreveport, but his teams weren't that great.

Dickey Morton and Ike Forte were from Texas.  Ron Calcagni was from Ohio, I think, and Kevin Scanlon was from Pennsylvania, maybe. 

Greg Koch and R.C. Thielman were from Houston.

Steve Little was from Kansas. 

Quinn Grovey was from Oklahoma.

I could go on givem time, but the theory that Arkansas football rises and falls with in-state talent is a Hogville myth, based on my memory of about 47 years of Arkansas football.  I agree that Jimmies and Joes beat x's and o's, but not 99% of the time.  But the head coach matters much more than you give him credit for.  So does the strength of competition over the entire season.

Very well said! You hit the nail on the Head.

[GuvHog]

So what is Arkansas since joining the SEC? Our average over the 25 years says we are Middle of the pack. 

That's because with the exception of one head Coach, the Hogs haven't had the coaching they need to do any better. If a good coach is hired, the Hogs will start finishing in the top 25 regularly once again.

That being said, the jury is still out on Bret Bielema, he could be the next Head Coach to re-start that trend.

[sowmonella]

I'm aware that is your opinion but I respectfully disagree with it and I'm not alone.

I'm most certainly not a win at all costs person. Bobby's off of the field issues had nothing to do with how the program was being run. He ran a clean program and won. That is not disputable.

You do understand it was not legal when he hired his girl toy. You are unbelievable.

[HiggiePiggy]

That's because with the exception of one head Coach, the Hogs haven't had the coaching they need to do any better. If a good coach is hired, the Hogs will start finishing in the top 25 regularly once again.

That being said, the jury is still out on Bret Bielema, he could be the next Head Coach to re-start that trend.

Ok. We still are a middle of the pack program until we actually get a coach that changes that and stays. We had one for 4 years, but now he is gone.  So as far as I see we are a middle of the pack program. 

Coaching does make a program and right now the one we have has made us middle of the pack at the moment.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Ok. We still are a middle of the pack program until we actually get a coach that changes that and stays. We had one for 4 years, but now he is gone.  So as far as I see we are a middle of the pack program. 

Coaching does make a program and right now the one we have has made us middle of the pack at the moment.

I know that you are enamoured with his two really good seasons, but if our current HC could have pared down the team/staff mistakes the last 3 years, we would have won 2-3 more each year and that would have been a better stretch than your favorite HC who got himself fired. Now can we correct those mistakes? They are certainly correctable. Time will tell. But that said, we are not middle of pack in terms of what we have been capable of achieving. Middle of the pack in terms of what we have achieved? Yes, I would agree.

[HiggiePiggy]

I know that you are enamoured with his two really good seasons, but if our current HC could have pared down the team/staff mistakes the last 3 years, we would have won 2-3 more each year and that would have been a better stretch than your favorite HC who got himself fired. Now can we correct those mistakes? They are certainly correctable. Time will tell. But that said, we are not middle of pack in terms of what we have been capable of achieving. Middle of the pack in terms of what we have achieved? Yes, I would agree.

That is the difference.  Every year beliema has been here he has found ways to lose games he shouldn't.  Can he change that. We will see.  He should have won 9 last year and 10 the year before. So until he shows me that he can win at a higher level our program is middle of the pack. All of us wish we were above that, but since we have been in the sec our record says middle of the pack and our current coach is in that middle of the pack at the moment.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

That is the difference.  Every year beliema has been here he has found ways to lose games he shouldn't.  Can he change that. We will see.  He should have won 9 last year and 10 the year before. So until he shows me that he can win at a higher level our program is middle of the pack. All of us wish we were above that, but since we have been in the sec our record says middle of the pack and our current coach is in that middle of the pack at the moment.

Golly, I think that is what I said.

[HiggiePiggy]

Golly, I think that is what I said.

Yep. It is and it is repeated over and over all the time on this board.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yep. It is and it is repeated over and over all the time on this board.

Your point being what? Having to have the last word? OK, if it means that much to you, you win.

[HiggiePiggy]

Your point being what? Having to have the last word? OK, if it means that much to you, you win.

Well I was going to blow off the " I know you are enamoured with those 2 years" but the truth is I am sure you were too. Bret Beliema finds ways to lose games. It gets old.  People want to say we are a second tier?  Not in this conference, we could have been, but we haven't found the coach that can actually play a second half and not look like he's staring at a train wreck when crap starts to go south.  6-15 when leading or tied in the second half.

My favorite time being a razorback was when petrino was here because that is the only time that I felt we had a chance. So far with beliema I fear the second half melt downs.   

[GuvHog]

You do understand it was not legal when he hired his girl toy. You are unbelievable.

Once again, Petrino didn't hire her, Long did. Petrino did influence her hiring though.

[GuvHog]

1.  YOU are "wrong."
2.  Horrendously wrong.
3.  Shamefully wrong.

Clearly, the concept of leadership escapes you?

I don't care -- and he never came close to an SEC West title let alone NCAA -- if the guy was coming off his third consecutive BCS bowl win: you can his posterior FOR CAUSE without a second thought.

That's leadership.

If you desire to question Long, question the initial hire of a two (three after Arkansas!) time organization killer.   

You have your opinion and I have mine. I respectfully disagree with you.

[Mike Irwin]

When it came to Petrino's future at Arkansas, there were other options besides firing him and Long knew that. What Petrino did, didn't merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple. Say what you want about Bobby but he ran a clean program even though he had off of the field issues. Trying to compare what Petrino did to what is happening at Ole Miss is just plan silly because there is no comparison as the Ole Miss situation is more than light years worse. You embarrass yourself when you try to make that comparison.

I am not and never have been a "Win at all costs" person. I'm one who believes the Hogs can do things the right way and win but it takes a great coach to do that.

As for Bielema, I believe this will be his best year at Arkansas so far and I'm predicting the Hogs will win 9 regular season games this year so I most certainly am not anti-Bielema.

I don't hate Long either, I just don't trust him.

There was an attempt to keep Petrino if he agreed to meet certain conditions. He refused. Later he told friends that he was convinced he was bulletproof because of how he had improved the program on the field. He thought Long was bluffing. He also ended up admitting to those same friends that he screwed up big time.

[GuvHog]

There was an attempt to keep Petrino if he agreed to meet certain conditions. He refused. Later he told friends that he was convinced he was bulletproof because of how he had improved the program on the field. He thought Long was bluffing. He also ended up admitting to those same friends that he screwed up big time.

Then why did Long deny that such an attempt to keep Petrino was made when asked about it at the Press conference??

Not doubting your word, just curious.

[PorkRinds]

Then why did Long deny that such an attempt to keep Petrino was made when asked about it at the Press conference??

Not doubting your word, just curious.

Likely because he didn't even want to go down that road once the firing happened.  Time to move forward and not re-hash what happened and get into a verbal joust with the former coach. 

[bphi11ips]

No, it is no myth. You throw out a handful of names. Where were the receivers and rb's from that Calcagni was handing off to. The guys blocking for them, they guys making tackles.

BUt, lets assume for a moment you are right. That still goes back to the heart of the problem for Arkansas football. The program must convince SEC level players to bypass their instate school or schools, and in many cases also bypass other sec schools to come to Fayetteville. And, unlike Bama or Ga that only goes out of state to get special players, the Hogs must go out of state just to sustain the program.

Calcagni handed off mostly to Ben Cowins from St. Louis, who ran behind All-American Greg Kolenda, who I believe was from Kansas City.  That 1977 team had some great Arkansans on it, too, including Dan Hampton, William Hampton, Leotis Harris, Roland Sales and Donny Bobo. After Cowins, the next great Arkansas back was Gary Anderson from Columbia, Mo.  Steve Korte was from Denver.  Billy Ray Smith, Jr. was from Plano, Tx.  Kendall Trainor was from Fredonia, Kansas.  Ron Faurot was from Wichita.  Tony Cherico was from Shawnee Mission, Kansas.  Steve Atwater was from St. Louis.  Barry Foster was from Duncanville, Tx.  Jim Mabry was from Memphis.  Lloyd Phillips was from Fort Worth.  Ronnie Caveness was from Houston.  We're talking about the majority of All-Americans the Razorbacks produced during three decades of rubbing elbows with the upper class being from out of state.  Frank Broyles made a living in Texas. 

Your last sentence undermines your premise -Arkansas relies on out-of-state athletes to sustain its program.  Guess who else does?  Alabama.  The Crimson Tide has averaged six Alabama natives in its last four classes.  Nick Saban watches a lot of film, points, and clicks. 

I'd be interested to see your support for your thesis that Arkansas is only good when it has a good in-state class.  Neither Frank Broyles' nor Ken Hatfield's teams rose and fell the way you claim they did. 

[gchamblee]

From the way you word your posts, you act like the decision was Long's alone. Like he decided to fire Petrino, called Petrino to tell him he was fired, and held a press conference.

While the UA may give off the appearance, that Jeff Long made the decision, no one should be so naive to think that it wasn't run past and approved by the UA Chancellor and Board of Trustees.

Arkansas Razorback football is "the show" in this state. There is no sport or event bigger. So when it came time to fire the UA head football coach that just went 21-5 over the past two seasons, you can bet Long's bosses signed off on the decision. If they had pushed back, Petrino wouldn't have been fired.

Guv starts this crap about petrino and long on occasion. When he is proven wrong with undeniable evidence, he doesn't admit he is wrong he just disappears from the thread. A few weeks later, he comes back pushing the same false crap in his attempt to avenge bobby and vilify long.

[GuvHog]

From the way you word your posts, you act like the decision was Long's alone. Like he decided to fire Petrino, called Petrino to tell him he was fired, and held a press conference.

While the UA may give off the appearance, that Jeff Long made the decision, no one should be so naive to think that it wasn't run past and approved by the UA Chancellor and Board of Trustees.

Arkansas Razorback football is "the show" in this state. There is no sport or event bigger. So when it came time to fire the UA head football coach that just went 21-5 over the past two seasons, you can bet Long's bosses signed off on the decision. If they had pushed back, Petrino wouldn't have been fired.

At the termination press conference Jeff Long stated that he did not talk to the BOT and only informed the Chancellor of his decision after it was made and after Bobby had been terminated. Long stated the decision was his and his alone. That's what he said at the press conference but his notes may say differently.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

At the termination press conference Jeff Long stated that he did not talk to the BOT and only informed the Chancellor of his decision after it was made and after Bobby had been terminated. Long stated the decision was his and his alone. That's what he said at the press conference but his notes may say differently.

That's true, Long did say that informed the Chancellor of his decision through a letter (my guess it was emailed) but Guv, that was a pretty big decision and once a decision was made for a review process, even if a guy has the power to hire and fire, I can assure you that he continued to pass information to those to whom he reports so that they were aware of the status of the review. I'm sure that they supported Long in his decision even if technically, it was his decision to make.

Here's the presser. You can look at the 17:00 minute mark of the presser for confirmation of this.

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Jeff+Long%27s+presser+firing+Bobby+Petrino&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=EAEDD1B5116A101A5C0CEAEDD1B5116A101A5C0C&v_t=keyword_rollover

I will say however, that in regard to the hiring of Dorrell, you were wrong Guv. Long even says it here, that BP made the hiring decision. I'm sure it was approved by Long at some point just because he was going to support his HC and his wishes, but it was BP who made the hiring decision.

[Pork Twain]

Noticed Arkansas is painted with the same brush.


This is not a phenomenon exclusive to the Rebels. Arkansas, Baylor, heck, even schools with histories as robust as Notre Dame and Miami in today’s modern game, do not occupy the real estate their fans think they do or should and would be better off listening to this same message.

Well it's true so...

[GuvHog]

That's true, Long did say that informed the Chancellor of his decision through a letter (my guess it was emailed) but Guv, that was a pretty big decision and once a decision was made for a review process, even if a guy has the power to hire and fire, I can assure you that he continued to pass information to those to whom he reports so that they were aware of the status of the review. I'm sure that they supported Long in his decision even if technically, it was his decision to make.

Here's the presser. You can look at the 17:00 minute mark of the presser for confirmation of this.

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Jeff+Long%27s+presser+firing+Bobby+Petrino&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=EAEDD1B5116A101A5C0CEAEDD1B5116A101A5C0C&v_t=keyword_rollover

I will say however, that in regard to the hiring of Dorrell, you were wrong Guv. Long even says it here, that BP made the hiring decision. I'm sure it was approved by Long at some point just because he was going to support his HC and his wishes, but it was BP who made the hiring decision.

BP, being part of the committee, likely made known to the other members of the hiring committee that he wanted Jessica to get the job but it was the committee as a whole that recommended Jessica's hiring to Long. The records clearly show that the recommendation to hire her was made by a committee which included Petrino, Long accepted their recommendation and hired her.

[PorkRinds]

BP, being part of the committee, likely made known to the other members of the hiring committee that he wanted Jessica to get the job but it was the committee as a whole that recommended Jessica's hiring to Long. The records clearly show that the recommendation to hire her was made by a committee which included Petrino, Long accepted their recommendation and hired her.

Im not saying you're wrong but you're citing "records" that you've never seen nor read and we all know it.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

BP, being part of the committee, likely made known to the other members of the hiring committee that he wanted Jessica to get the job but it was the committee as a whole that recommended Jessica's hiring to Long. The records clearly show that the recommendation to hire her was made by a committee which included Petrino, Long accepted their recommendation and hired her.

Gee whiz Guv, instead of assuming, why don't you just use the link that I gave you and hear it directly from Jeff Long. I don't give a hang if there was a committee or not. It was a hire for Football and you know doggone well that what BP wanted (at that point), BP was going to get. Can't hide behind a "committee" in this case.

[hobhog]

I thought this thread was about Ole Miss issues. Hijacked threads in Hogville getting really old....

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I thought this thread was about Ole Miss issues. Hijacked threads in Hogville getting really old....

You just took it to a 5th page. How much is there to say about Ole Miss? On top of that, there are like 3 or 4 threads on Ole Miss. Threads get off track after a few pages. It just happens.

[Dr Carl aka Shorthog]

Still talking and lamenting BP. How sad

[rljjr]

Still talking and lamenting BP. How sad

I like British Petroleum.

[hogsanity]

I thought this thread was about Ole Miss issues. Hijacked threads in Hogville getting really old....

Arkansas and other schools were mentioned in the article

[Pork Twain]

BP, being part of the committee, likely made known to the other members of the hiring committee that he wanted Jessica to get the job but it was the committee as a whole that recommended Jessica's hiring to Long. The records clearly show that the recommendation to hire her was made by a committee which included Petrino, Long accepted their recommendation and hired her.

Come on man.  What BP said, went...

[Pork Twain]

I thought this thread was about Ole Miss issues. Hijacked threads in Hogville getting really old....

If you have over 5k posts and it is either just now getting old or you are unable to get over it by now, that is a you problem.

[Hoginsavga]

And just as many think it was justified.

I'll dispute the "won" part. In the end he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win. HDN had a 10 win season, so did Hatfield, Holtz and Broyles. It is not like they did anything under BP they had not done before.  And before you say BCS bowl, the program had been to many major bowl before there was the BCS. 2 Orange Bowls a couple Sugars and Cotton when it was one of the BIG4 NYD games.
[/quotes

Hogsanity you really made me laugh with this one. When you say "he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win" tells me where he had our program. Also the same holds true for Broyles, Holtz and Hatfield. Those four coaches had our team on a level where we were expected to win except for maybe a couple of games a year. Can't wait for the time to come when we only win a bunch of games we are expected to win as in 10 or 11 a season. Hell, I'll even back you up with the dispute part because we were supposed to win them.

[hogsanity]

And just as many think it was justified.

I'll dispute the "won" part. In the end he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win. HDN had a 10 win season, so did Hatfield, Holtz and Broyles. It is not like they did anything under BP they had not done before.  And before you say BCS bowl, the program had been to many major bowl before there was the BCS. 2 Orange Bowls a couple Sugars and Cotton when it was one of the BIG4 NYD games.
[/quotes

Hogsanity you really made me laugh with this one. When you say "he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win" tells me where he had our program. Also the same holds true for Broyles, Holtz and Hatfield. Those four coaches had our team on a level where we were expected to win except for maybe a couple of games a year. Can't wait for the time to come when we only win a bunch of games we are expected to win as in 10 or 11 a season. Hell, I'll even back you up with the dispute part because we were supposed to win them.

But only winning those games does not get hem closer to being anything but a middle of the pack team. Even in 2010 it sill only got them tied for 2nd in the secw.

[bphi11ips]

And just as many think it was justified.

I'll dispute the "won" part. In the end he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win. HDN had a 10 win season, so did Hatfield, Holtz and Broyles. It is not like they did anything under BP they had not done before.  And before you say BCS bowl, the program had been to many major bowl before there was the BCS. 2 Orange Bowls a couple Sugars and Cotton when it was one of the BIG4 NYD games.
[/quotes

Hogsanity you really made me laugh with this one. When you say "he won nothing but a bunch of games they were supposed to win" tells me where he had our program. Also the same holds true for Broyles, Holtz and Hatfield. Those four coaches had our team on a level where we were expected to win except for maybe a couple of games a year. Can't wait for the time to come when we only win a bunch of games we are expected to win as in 10 or 11 a season. Hell, I'll even back you up with the dispute part because we were supposed to win them.

Also a classic case of damning with faint praise by hogsanity.  The real numbers are a bit better than he leads you to believe. 

Broyles won 10 or more games 4 times, Holtz did it twice, and Hatfield did it thrice.  Three of Broyles' came in 11 game seasons.  The rest came in 12 game seasons. 

Broyles/Holtz/Hatfield took Arkansas to 6 Cotton Bowls, 5 Sugar Bowls, and 2 Orange Bowls. All were the equivalent of a BCS bowl.  So when the media and Hogville posters referred to the 2011 Sugar Bowl as Arkansas's first BCS Bowl, as if that were something special the Hogs had been missing, many of us just laughed.

[hogsanity]

Not sure what you mean, but if you have read my posts on the issue, you will know I have pointed out the major bowls the Hogs had played in long before the bcs was created. And I have been skewered for saying that the Sugar bowl following the 2-10 season was just another, and was nothing that Broyles, holtz and Hatfield had not done.

That has always been my point on BP, he was a good coach for the Hogs but didnt do anything several before him had not done.

[bphi11ips]

Not sure what you mean, but if you have read my posts on the issue, you will know I have pointed out the major bowls the Hogs had played in long before the bcs was created. And I have been skewered for saying that the Sugar bowl following the 2-10 season was just another, and was nothing that Broyles, holtz and Hatfield had not done.

That has always been my point on BP, he was a good coach for the Hogs but didnt do anything several before him had not done.

Well, "a 10 win season" isn't the same as 4, 3 or 2 10 win seasons.  "A couple Sugar Bowls" isn't the same as 5.  "A Cotton" isn't the same as 6.  We have plenty of posters here who weren't alive when the Hogs went to a BCS bowl equivalent almost every other year and won 10 games about once every three years for thirty years.  Many of those are the ones who think Bobby Petrino was the shizz.  He wasn't . Petrino was a punk.

[Inhogswetrust]

Well, "a 10 win season" isn't the same as 4, 3 or 2 10 win seasons.  "A couple Sugar Bowls" isn't the same as 5.  "A Cotton" isn't the same as 6.  We have plenty of posters here who weren't alive when the Hogs went to a BCS bowl equivalent almost every other year and won 10 games about once every three years for thirty years.  Many of those are the ones who think Bobby Petrino was the shizz.  He wasn't . Petrino was a punk.

Yep. It's amazing when one either lives a lot of history OR studies it and learns, things don't always seem as some would think, isn't it.

[Pork Twain]

Well, "a 10 win season" isn't the same as 4, 3 or 2 10 win seasons.  "A couple Sugar Bowls" isn't the same as 5.  "A Cotton" isn't the same as 6.  We have plenty of posters here who weren't alive when the Hogs went to a BCS bowl equivalent almost every other year and won 10 games about once every three years for thirty years.  Many of those are the ones who think Bobby Petrino was the shizz.  He wasn't . Petrino was a punk.

10 win seasons used to mean more as well, because we got those 10 wins by playing fewer games

[GuvHog]

Well, "a 10 win season" isn't the same as 4, 3 or 2 10 win seasons.  "A couple Sugar Bowls" isn't the same as 5.  "A Cotton" isn't the same as 6.  We have plenty of posters here who weren't alive when the Hogs went to a BCS bowl equivalent almost every other year and won 10 games about once every three years for thirty years.  Many of those are the ones who think Bobby Petrino was the shizz.  He wasn't . Petrino was a punk.

With me it's just the opposite. I was born in 1955 and I remember those Frank Broyles years and Watching them win that national title on TV as a young boy. Yeah Petrino was a jerk and he screwed up big time off of the field but his record at Arkansas that includes back to back #12 and #5 national finishes speaks for it's self. With that #5 national finish, he and those Hogs accomplished something that hadn't been done since Lou Holtz's Hogs beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl and finished #2 in the nation. I'm sick and tired of some getting on here and belittling what those Hogs accomplished in those 2 years. Some of you have very short memories.

[ChitownHawg]

With me it's just the opposite. I was born in 1955 and I remember those Frank Broyles years and Watching them win that national title on TV as a young boy. Yeah Petrino was a jerk and he screwed up big time off of the field but his record at Arkansas that includes back to back #12 and #5 national finishes speaks for it's self. With that #5 national finish, he and those Hogs accomplished something that hadn't been done since Lou Holtz's Hogs beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl and finished #2 in the nation. I'm sick and tire of some getting on here and belittling what those Hogs accomplished in those 2 years. Some of you have very short memories.

I don't recall anyone belittling any of the Hogs. The coach? Yes. The players? No.

[GuvHog]

I don't recall anyone belittling any of the Hogs. The coach? Yes. The players? No.

When they belittle what was accomplished during those 2 years, they belittle the players as well as the coach.

[bphi11ips]

When they belittle what was accomplished during those 2 years, they belittle the players as well as the coach.

Caca

[gchamblee]

Yep. It's amazing when one either lives a lot of history OR studies it and learns things don't always seem as some would think isn't it.

I've been reading american history over the past few years, as many books as I can find on it, and it has really opened my eyes and shown me how wrong my perception of things was.

[gchamblee]

With me it's just the opposite. I was born in 1955 and I remember those Frank Broyles years and Watching them win that national title on TV as a young boy. Yeah Petrino was a jerk and he screwed up big time off of the field but his record at Arkansas that includes back to back #12 and #5 national finishes speaks for it's self. With that #5 national finish, he and those Hogs accomplished something that hadn't been done since Lou Holtz's Hogs beat Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl and finished #2 in the nation. I'm sick and tired of some getting on here and belittling what those Hogs accomplished in those 2 years. Some of you have very short memories.

Guv, I give you a lot of crap here on hogville, and I read your post the other day about why you had to discontinue your season tickets. I just want to take a moment to say that regardless of how much we argue on hogville, I admire your commitment and sacrifice to your family. You're a good man and if I were to run into you in a bar one night I would be honored to buy you a beer and just sit and chat.

[elviscat]

This is a great read and true report about OM.

Arrogance - The Rise and Fall of Hugh Freeze


Arrogance - The Rise and Fall of Hugh Freeze
Elitedawgs.com

July 26, 2017

Unless you have been under a rock or in a coma, you have heard about the unceremonious firing resignation of former Ole Miss Coach Hugh Freeze. How could such a fine Christian man, who was as practically as pure as the Virgin Mary, fall from his perch high atop his pedestal in Oxford? Arrogance, that's how.

Arrogance, you ask? Yes, arrogance.

After a disastrous 2010 season, the Ole Miss fan base fractured, and in the Summer of 2011, a group known as Forward Rebels was born. This group took out full page ads in newspapers across the state and in Memphis, noting that The Ole Miss Administration is the problem. The Forward Rebels agenda was to get AD Pete Boone to do what they wanted, or to get him replaced. The message was clear, Forward Rebels wanted to win, and win big now, not just field competitive teams. The back to back New Years Day bowl wins from 2008-2009 were a distant memory. Arrogance.

freezearticle1.jpg




By November of 2011, AD Pete Boone retired and head coach Houston Nutt resigned as head coach, and a committee was formed to find a new head coach. Forward Rebels apparently had someone's undivided attention. Archie Manning and Fed Ex executive Mike Glenn co-chaired the selection committee. On December 6th, 2011, The Bleacher Report published an article, Ole Miss Football 2011: With Hugh Freeze Hire, Archie Manning Chooses Sides. Some excerpts from that article:

No matter the failures of the last few decades, the powers that be inside The Lyceum had recognized their limitations and had committed to not just helping Ole Miss football recover from the implosion of the Houston Nutt Era, they were calling to arms Rebel Nation, pledging a crusade to recapture the glory of a past long since seen, though hardly forgotten.

The decision was made - win and win now, no matter what the cost may be. Arrogance.

The double-secret-to-the-pain-of-death nature with which the search committee protected its actions made news by itself. There were no leaks from either Manning or his co-chair, Fed Ex executive Mike Glenn, no gauging the temperature on prospective coaches, no off-the-record-wink-nudge details that found their way into either digital or paper print.
...
The committee's silence and absolute control of information created a vacuum - an empty space filled not just with the absurdity of Internet message boards or regional radio talk shows and their "sources," but that also allowed for interest to be shown - and then publicly debated - by what should have been legitimate candidates like Mike Leach or Rich Rodriguez.

Absolute control of information - the message - #TheNarrative was born. You will know what we want you to know, when and if we want you to know it. Arrogance.


When asked at Freeze's introductory press conference who else was interviewed for the position, Glenn claimed a confidentiality agreement between parties prevented him from revealing who was interviewed.

He was absolutely right in that assertion.

When a follow-up question asked how many candidates were interviewed, Glenn claimed the same agreement.

No way should he get a pass on that.

Any athletic program worth its salt should protect the names of interviewees to guard them - and the program - from tangential storylines. But for a person in charge of a search that resulted in the hire of - at least on paper - a suspect candidate, to avoid divulging the total number of candidates interviewed is contemptible.


The mindset was clearly to control the message, without exception. Arrogance.


Hugh Freeze worked tirelessly to promote himself as a virtuous man, a dedicated Christian, a family man. Apparently Freeze subscribed to the Vladimir Lenin philosophy that a lie told often enough becomes the truth. Arrogance.

After managing to win six games and become bowl eligible in 2012, presumably Forward Rebels and the entire administration at Ole Miss dove head first "all-in" with the coaching staff. This ushered in the infamous 2013 recruiting class, featuring ESPN's #1 player in the nation, Robert Nkemdiche, #1 rated OL Laremy Tunsil, and #1 rated WR Laquon Treadwell, all of whom were out of state recruits. Tunsil, a Georgia commit, and Treadwell had no ties to Ole Miss. The evil Houston Nutt had planted a seed by signing Nkemdiche's younger brother Denzel, which may have helped with recruiting Robert Nkemdiche. These three could have gone to any college they wanted to, but they all ended up at Ole Miss, who had just struggled to become bowl eligible in 2012. A tweet from Laquon Treadwell offered some insight as to why he liked Oxford. Surely these were Ole Miss co-eds escorting Treadwell, right?

freezearticle2.jpg


That 2013 recruiting class garnered national attention, and not in a good way. How exactly did Ole Miss, a team that had won a combined 12 games in the previous three seasons, land a top 5 recruiting class? Rumors were everywhere, social media, message boards, and Freeze absolutely did not like the negative attention. Assuming he and #TheNetwork had sufficiently covered their tracks, Freeze sent out a tweet and challenged the world. Arrogance.


freezearticle3.jpg


The world listened, and Ole Miss compliance was bombarded with 85 emails containing information about violations. Clarion Ledger Ole Miss beat writer Riley Blevins had asked a few questions, and was promptly shown the exit door from Ole Miss, Mississippi and his profession, which sent warning shots over the heads of any other reporter who dare challenged #TheNarrative. Arrogance.

The only reporter that would dare touch this was Kyle Veazey of the Memphis Commercial Appeal. Veazey submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to Ole Miss, requesting the 85 emails, which are considered legally as public records. Ole Miss sent Veazey 54 of the emails, but withheld 31 of them. Control the message. Media assimilate or you are the next Riley Blevins. Arrogance.

For the next three seasons, Ole Miss and Freeze charged ahead, all in, despite an ongoing NCAA investigation. In January of 2016, days before National Signing Day, an official holiday in Oxford, Ole Miss was formally charged by the NCAA in a Notice of Allegations. The 2016 signing class was in jeopardy, so Ole Miss and Freeze doubled down by telling numerous media outlets that most of the allegations were either related to Women's basketball or track. Of those related to football, they occurred under the previous coach Houston Nutt. Freeze had the arrogance to lie in the face of recruits. In the words of then recruit Deontay Anderson "he (Freeze) said it was about things that had happened in the past before he got to Ole Miss"







For five years, the SEC had to endure the Cult of Freeze, defending him blindly without exception. In state media, either coerced by the treatment of Riley Blevins, or complicit with Ole Miss and Freeze, largely ignored the story, and would not investigate. Despite a second NOA of the NCAA in 2017, Ole Miss and Freeze continued marching forward, sticking to party lines. #TheNarrative began to unravel with the second NOA. Houston Nutt asked the school to apologize for blaming him for Freeze's NCAA issues, and the school refused. Nutt noted in one radio interview that "my name appears zero times in their NOA". The arrogance continued.

At the 2017 SEC Media Days, all of that would change. The day Freeze was set to appear, Nutt filed a lawsuit in federal court alleging that Ole Miss had violated the terms of his contract when they threw him under the bus. Freeze told Paul Finebaum that he did not know anything about the lawsuit. Trying to avoid questions, Freeze filibustered endlessly trying to chew up his time at the podium. Freeze goes on to tell reporters that he would love to talk about the Nutt lawsuit, but he cannot, absolutely contradicting what he had just told Paul Finebaum minutes earlier. Arrogance.

Nutt's lawsuit alleges that Ole Miss and Hugh Freeze went on a full court press just before national signing day, purposefully leaking a false narrative to intentionally blame Nutt. Phone records apparently indicate this. Outkick the Coverage writer Clay Travis noted, Ole Miss will settle this before further damage can be done. #TheNarrative completely unraveled.

Things would change dramatically when it was discovered that Hugh Freeze had called an escort service on his university issued cell phone. Ole Miss, whom had been in lock step with Freeze fighting the NCAA, abruptly gave Freeze the option to resign or be fired. AD Ross Bjork would go on to say that there was a disturbing pattern discovered after reviewing Freeze's phone records. In the NOA, lack of institutional control and failure to monitor appear. It appears Ole Miss opted to sacrifice Freeze before additional damage could be done.

Ole Miss had refused to publish the names of boosters named in the NCAA NOA, some of which have been disassociated from the University. That will change on Friday, as the Mississippi Ethics Commission has forced Ole Miss to release the documents with the booster names no redacted. #TheNetwork will be exposed.

Arrogance U will have its day with the Committee on Infractions later this year. Based upon previous behavior, Ole Miss will try to say they cut ties with Freeze and they should not be punished. The NCAA will absolutely not accept that for an answer, as Ole Miss has completely argued that Freeze was such a fine, outstanding moral man, and this was all simply mistakes.

Had Ole Miss and Freeze issued apologies to Houston Nutt, odds are Freeze is still the head coach today. The very arrogance they have ridden with building Hugh Freeze up for five years has led to their downfall.

[bphi11ips]

Presser at 3:00?