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What’s happened to loyalty?

Started by Granny fan, December 27, 2017, 05:40:52 pm

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Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 02:13:26 pm
Ok, then again I ask, how will the Hogs do if all the kids in other states start to ascribe to your thinking on being loyal to your state?

Don't they?

At least until said school has no more room left for them.  I don't remember Arkansas or any school out recruiting the elite teams in their home state.  Now what those teams do with that talent pretty much changes with the coach.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 03:58:29 pm
Don't they?

At least until said school has no more room left for them.  I don't remember Arkansas or any school out recruiting the elite teams in their home state.  Now what those teams do with that talent pretty much changes with the coach.

This is why we won't make a living in southern Louisiana and Florida.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

PonderinHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on December 31, 2017, 04:23:41 pm
This is why we won't make a living in southern Louisiana and Florida.
And also why we have to cast a wide net.

bphi11ips

Quote from: PonderinHog on December 31, 2017, 04:26:07 pm
And also why we have to cast a wide net.

As long as the minnows get out that's ok.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: PonderinHog on December 31, 2017, 04:26:07 pm
And also why we have to cast a wide net.

And that goes back to the question we debated many times during BB's years.  A program like Arkansas has to out work the elite schools who may have it relatively easy.  We have to spread a wide net, get on them early and hand out a lot of offers.  Seems I've seen budget comparisons in the past and if my memory is correct we spend a fair amount on recruiting.  Was the previous staff spending that money as well as they could have?  Will the current staff spend it better?   Will we increase the budget?  I do believe CCM will work like a madman because he has a tremendous drive to succeed. 

Still, since we are unlikely to get many of the very best from any state outside Arkansas it is vitally important that we get the very best from home.  Our homegrown talent will alway be the bedrock of our teams.  They are the ones we need to provide leadership and to keep their chins up when things aren't going so good.  They are the ones we need that teach the whole team what it means to be Razorbacks.  That's why loyalty to Arkansas is important.  Those athletes we recruit from other states need to see what is so great about being a Razorback.  Conceive, believe and achieve!  All those things have to be installed in a player who has never had a reason or desire to achieve greatness simply for the brand.

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 05:14:11 pm
And that goes back to the question we debated many times during BB's years.  A program like Arkansas has to out work the elite schools who may have it relatively easy.  We have to spread a wide net, get on them early and hand out a lot of offers.  Seems I've seen budget comparisons in the past and if my memory is correct we spend a fair amount on recruiting.  Was the previous staff spending that money as well as they could have?  Will the current staff spend it better?   Will we increase the budget?  I do believe CCM will work like a madman because he has a tremendous drive to succeed. 

Still, since we are unlikely to get many of the very best from any state outside Arkansas it is vitally important that we get the very best from home.  Our homegrown talent will alway be the bedrock of our teams.  They are the ones we need to provide leadership and to keep their chins up when things aren't going so good.  They are the ones we need that teach the whole team what it means to be Razorbacks.  That's why loyalty to Arkansas is important.  Those athletes we recruit from other states need to see what is so great about being a Razorback.  Conceive, believe and achieve!  All those things have to be installed in a player who has never had a reason or desire to achieve greatness simply for the brand.
Great post Cinco.  I'll add that it was very hard for the previous staff to evaluate in-state talent since almost no one plays power football.  The current generation of players in Arkansas run the spread and what Arkansas has been running doesn't appeal to them.  I've heard several go as far as calling it boring. "Boring" is a tough sell to an 18 yr old.  Recruiting will improve because of scheme and coach relationships.  Morris is the right medicine to fix the in-state recruiting issues.  He's done well in a short period of time.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

hogsanity

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on December 31, 2017, 05:25:28 pm
Morris is the right medicine to fix the in-state recruiting issues. 


The problem is there is not enough SEC LEVEL TALENT in Arkansas to make a SEC LEVEL PROGRAM. Therefore, all the talk about loyalty is a joke. In state top talent is expected to show loyalty and sty and play for the Hogs, but that same type of talent in other states is supposed to eschew loyalty and leave their state and come play for the Hogs.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

FANONTHEHILL

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 05:29:28 pm
The problem is there is not enough SEC LEVEL TALENT in Arkansas to make a SEC LEVEL PROGRAM. Therefore, all the talk about loyalty is a joke. In state top talent is expected to show loyalty and sty and play for the Hogs, but that same type of talent in other states is supposed to eschew loyalty and leave their state and come play for the Hogs.

You will occasionally have a year where there is a major coup in Arkansas.  Childs, Gragg, Wright, and Adams for example.  They will always rely on out of state talent.  The limit of 25 signees per year makes out of state recruiting, especially in Texas, so vital. The new key is speed.  Speed is easier to find and develop in this new system.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

Kevin

We all know why Jackson signed with ou, and it was not about anything on the field
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 05:29:28 pm
The problem is there is not enough SEC LEVEL TALENT in Arkansas to make a SEC LEVEL PROGRAM. Therefore, all the talk about loyalty is a joke. In state top talent is expected to show loyalty and sty and play for the Hogs, but that same type of talent in other states is supposed to eschew loyalty and leave their state and come play for the Hogs.

I think I explained well enough for a fifth grader to understand.  My post was very clear about casting a wide net as,  Ponderin also stated.  My post was also clear about Arkansas players being the bedrock and that's not just Arkansas, you will find the same thing on almost any team.  The fact we need out of state players is another issue altogether and nobody is saying we don't need a whole lot of them.  I was also clear that I don't expect to out recruit the home state schools for the top talent.  So, once again getting the top instate talent is just as important and more so for us than it would be for schools in more fertile recruiting states. 

What the heck is the argument?

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 05:46:38 pm
I think I explained well enough for a fifth grader to understand.  My post was very clear about casting a wide net as,  Ponderin also stated.  My post was also clear about Arkansas players being the bedrock and that's not just Arkansas, you will find the same thing on almost any team.  The fact we need out of state players is another issue altogether and nobody is saying we don't need a whole lot of them.  I was also clear that I don't expect to out recruit the home state schools for the top talent.  So, once again getting the top instate talent is just as important and more so for us than it would be for schools in more fertile recruiting states. 

What the heck is the argument?
Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 05:46:38 pm
I think I explained well enough for a fifth grader to understand.  My post was very clear about casting a wide net as,  Ponderin also stated.  My post was also clear about Arkansas players being the bedrock and that's not just Arkansas, you will find the same thing on almost any team.  The fact we need out of state players is another issue altogether and nobody is saying we don't need a whole lot of them.  I was also clear that I don't expect to out recruit the home state schools for the top talent.  So, once again getting the top instate talent is just as important and more so for us than it would be for schools in more fertile recruiting states. 

What the heck is the argument?

my argument is there is not an instate recruiting problem to start with. Arkansas, is going to see much of the talent stay home but some is going to leave. This idea that has grown the last month that BB failed because he did not recruit in state well enough is just silly. Just as silly is the idea that Morris is going to turn things around by recruiting Arkansas better. It is also a silly notion that the school has mad a conscious decision to only recruit certain parts of the state.

I agree they have to cast a wide net. That net needs to cover wherever they can get the best players possible.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 05:54:39 pm
my argument is there is not an instate recruiting problem to start with. Arkansas, is going to see much of the talent stay home but some is going to leave. This idea that has grown the last month that BB failed because he did not recruit in state well enough is just silly. Just as silly is the idea that Morris is going to turn things around by recruiting Arkansas better. It is also a silly notion that the school has mad a conscious decision to only recruit certain parts of the state.

I agree they have to cast a wide net. That net needs to cover wherever they can get the best players possible.

Ok that's your opinion and it's not an opinion shared by everyone but time will tell although I doubt you will ever admit any five or six players over a four to five year period that the previous staff may or may not have recruited/signed has made any difference in whether we have won more games.

ricepig

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 06:15:33 pm
Ok that's your opinion and it's not an opinion shared by everyone but time will tell although I doubt you will ever admit any five or six players over a four to five year period that the previous staff may or may not have recruited/signed has made any difference in whether we have won more games.

Admit to an opinion? There no factual way to prove that any player we did or didn't sign/recruit would have made any difference in whether we win more games. Way too many variables to plug in to come up with any conclusive answers.

 

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: ricepig on December 31, 2017, 06:53:45 pm
Admit to an opinion? There no factual way to prove that any player we did or didn't sign/recruit would have made any difference in whether we win more games. Way too many variables to plug in to come up with any conclusive answers.

In another thread or maybe this one a statement was made about "this or that" and that's what it will always be depending on your personal perspective.  Now one admits to being wrong it's alway this or that.

ricepig

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 08:03:28 pm
In another thread or maybe this one a statement was made about "this or that" and that's what it will always be depending on your personal perspective.  Now one admits to being wrong it's alway this or that.
Ok, if you say so.

PonderinHog


ricepig

Quote from: PonderinHog on December 31, 2017, 08:20:19 pm
^^^^This ???^^^^ or ^^^That ???^^^

I always go with "that", but what do I know....

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: ricepig on December 31, 2017, 09:03:05 pm
I always go with "that", but what do I know....

Well I do believe it was Hogsanity that said it....

In case the reference confused you.

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 09:04:53 pm
Well I do believe it was Hogsanity that said it....

In case the reference confused you.

There is no way to know if a player they did or did not recruit or recruited but did not sign would have meant more wins. Obviously the players they did recruit did not win enough, but many want to blame that on the coaches not the players.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 09:49:37 pm
There is no way to know if a player they did or did not recruit or recruited but did not sign would have meant more wins. Obviously the players they did recruit did not win enough, but many want to blame that on the coaches not the players.


Well basically giving the 7a west starting spots certainly hadn't worked
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Wild Bill Hog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 09:49:37 pm
There is no way to know if a player they did or did not recruit or recruited but did not sign would have meant more wins. Obviously the players they did recruit did not win enough, but many want to blame that on the coaches not the players.

It is on the coaches.

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on December 31, 2017, 09:52:42 pm

Well basically giving the 7a west starting spots certainly hadn't worked

How many 7a west players started this season for the Hogs?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 09:54:56 pm
How many 7a west players started this season for the Hogs?


Well one started as a true frosh in his 1st game on the OL

Hope this new staff isn't as biased
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on December 31, 2017, 09:49:37 pm
There is no way to know if a player they did or did not recruit or recruited but did not sign would have meant more wins. Obviously the players they did recruit did not win enough, but many want to blame that on the coaches not the players.

I think Hogville policy comes into play here, don't bash players and certainly don't name names while you are doing that if you must.  The players will have all the chances they need to prove themselves under CCM and recruiting continues.  One thing is sure, I'm looking forward to next year already.

 

ricepig

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 31, 2017, 10:02:28 pm
I think Hogville policy comes into play here, don't bash players and certainly don't name names while you are doing that if you must.  The players will have all the chances they need to prove themselves under CCM and recruiting continues.  One thing is sure, I'm looking forward to next year already.

Well....it's next year already, so what have you got to look forward to now, football?

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: ricepig on January 01, 2018, 09:59:28 am
Well....it's next year already, so what have you got to look forward to now, football?

That and arguing with you for the next eight months! 😎  My New Years resolution is to make a good Hog fan out of you and Hogsanity. 😉

ricepig

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 01, 2018, 10:04:51 am
That and arguing with you for the next eight months! 😎  My New Years resolution is to make a good Hog fan out of you and Hogsanity. 😉

I'm already one, you'll have your hands full with Hogsanity! 😀

Peter Porker

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on December 29, 2017, 03:32:58 pm
And how loyal your type fan was to a coach that went 21-5 and by the way had just as many players committed to play for.  How about we just blame it on the dysfunctional administration we have had for 30 years and leave the fan out of it because in the end we are still here trying our best to support a winning program.  Blaming a fan for the shape of s program is really pretty stupid.

I held my nose when he was coaching here, but as soon as he was let go I let him have it. Big difference than what your type did while CBB was still coaching. These kids loved CBB and they saw how our fans acted.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: ricepig on January 01, 2018, 10:16:45 am
I'm already one, you'll have your hands full with Hogsanity! 😀

I know you are, but I agree Hogsanity is almost hopeless.  I'll give it my best shot...actually I think CCM will give me lots of support and ammunition.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Peter Porker on January 01, 2018, 10:23:05 am
I held my nose when he was coaching here, but as soon as he was let go I let him have it. Big difference than what your type did while CBB was still coaching. These kids loved CBB and they saw how our fans acted.

I bet very few of those players would exchange coaches and records.  I may have not liked the selection of BB for our coach for reasons directly related to football but I never insulted him like many of you did Petrino from the day he was hired.  In the end I'm not sure one is any better than the other.   If you can excuse what Long and Bielema did to Arkansas football to the tune of 50 mil that's your problem and a problem I don't have.

hogsanity

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on January 01, 2018, 10:24:03 am
I know you are, but I agree Hogsanity is almost hopeless.  I'll give it my best shot...actually I think CCM will give me lots of support and ammunition.

I'm a good hog fan, I just do not walk around with hog colored glasses on 24/7/365. Plus, message boards would be boring if everyone agreed all the time.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on January 01, 2018, 03:22:29 pm
I'm a good hog fan, I just do not walk around with hog colored glasses on 24/7/365. Plus, message boards would be boring if everyone agreed all the time.

👍👍👍

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: IronHog on December 31, 2017, 09:59:21 pm

Well one started as a true frosh in his 1st game on the OL

Hope this new staff isn't as biased

True frosh don't start on the OL or anywhere else because of a bias. They start because of other reasons. You're the one showing bias.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Poop Hoggy Hogg

Kids east of the White River have absolutely no loyalty towards the state of Arkansas, and it's because we never visit those rice towns, yet we expect for them to be loyal to us simply because they are within the state's borders. East Arkansas kids only get one Arkansas news station, and they have more connections to Tennessee and Mississippi than to Arkansas. Why do we not recognize this?

ricepig

Quote from: Poop Hoggy Hogg on January 01, 2018, 06:10:39 pm
Kids east of the White River have absolutely no loyalty towards the state of Arkansas, and it's because we never visit those rice towns, yet we expect for them to be loyal to us simply because they are within the state's borders. East Arkansas kids only get one Arkansas news station, and they have more connections to Tennessee and Mississippi than to Arkansas. Why do we not recognize this?

Don't agree with that, most cable systems over here have the LR stations and Jonesboro, plus the Memphis stations. I think the coaches come when there is talent to visit, I understand Morris, or his assistants, are going to visit every school.

IronHog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on January 01, 2018, 04:27:48 pm
True frosh don't start on the OL or anywhere else because of a bias. They start because of other reasons. You're the one showing bias.


TWO true freshman OL have started their first game at Arkansas

Shawn Andrews.....one of the most physically gifted linemen in history


And a maybe 280lbs walk on from Fayetteville that was predictably on skates in his 1st real game.


Bias
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

justmakeit2thebcs

Kids been going to other schools since Don Hutson left Pine Bluff for Bama in 1930

hogsanity

Quote from: ricepig on January 01, 2018, 06:51:23 pm
I think the coaches come when there is talent to visit,


thats a key right there.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

bphi11ips

Wonder what Notre Dame, Tennessee and OU saw in Tre Norwood that Bielema missed.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Poop Hoggy Hogg on January 01, 2018, 06:10:39 pm
Kids east of the White River have absolutely no loyalty towards the state of Arkansas, and it's because we never visit those rice towns, yet we expect for them to be loyal to us simply because they are within the state's borders. East Arkansas kids only get one Arkansas news station, and they have more connections to Tennessee and Mississippi than to Arkansas. Why do we not recognize this?

Dude I live in Memphis. Worked for years in Jonesboro and that is without a doubt one of the biggest pieces of poop ever posted on here.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

checkraiser88

Quote from: bphi11ips on January 01, 2018, 09:33:59 pm
Wonder what Notre Dame, Tennessee and OU saw in Tre Norwood that Bielema missed.

Is he uncommon?

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: IronHog on January 01, 2018, 07:35:49 pm

TWO true freshman OL have started their first game at Arkansas

Shawn Andrews.....one of the most physically gifted linemen in history


And a maybe 280lbs walk on from Fayetteville that was predictably on skates in his 1st real game.


Bias

It's NOT bias. It's stupidity..................yours.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

bphi11ips

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

IronHog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on January 01, 2018, 09:37:41 pm
It's NOT bias. It's stupidity..................yours.


You saying he earned it?

How bout Froholt?

TE screens to the blocking TE?

How bout Jones starting over Peters?

AJ Derby at QB?


Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Hogwaller

Quote from: GuvHog on December 28, 2017, 07:59:28 am
This is true.

Cedric Houston didn't flip either. He was never committed to Arkansas. As I recall, His High School head coach pushed him to Tennessee and was run out of Clarendon because of it.

Word has it that the Nutt crew pulled a stupid stunt during the recruiting process that set it in motion. I'll just leave it at that.

Peter Porker

Quote from: GuvHog on December 28, 2017, 07:59:28 am
This is true.

Cedric Houston didn't flip either. He was never committed to Arkansas. As I recall, His High School head coach pushed him to Tennessee and was run out of Clarendon because of it.

Cedric Houston committed to Nutt on Nutt's birthday. So yea, he did flip.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on January 01, 2018, 09:43:36 pm

You saying he earned it?

How bout Froholt?

TE screens to the blocking TE?

How bout Jones starting over Peters?

AJ Derby at QB?




What do Froholdt and Derby have to do WITH THE 7A WEST which is who you said all the starting spots were being given to?

Quote from: IronHog on December 31, 2017, 09:52:42 pm

Well basically giving the 7a west starting spots certainly hadn't worked
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Grumpypenguin

Anyone that thinks a kid should be "loyal" to a state he grew up in is pretty stupid.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on December 31, 2017, 05:39:29 pm
You will occasionally have a year where there is a major coup in Arkansas.  Childs, Gragg, Wright, and Adams for example.  They will always rely on out of state talent.  The limit of 25 signees per year makes out of state recruiting, especially in Texas, so vital. The new key is speed.  Speed is easier to find and develop in this new system.

The Key always been Speed and that cause you can't teach or train folks for Speed!
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

nwahogfan1

Quote from: Granny fan on December 27, 2017, 05:40:52 pm
Why are so many in state kids flipping?  I’m old, but when I grew up instate kids never considered anyone but the Hogs!

Loyalty goes two Ways.  When Norwood does not get an offer to the Hogs and then goes starts as a freshman at OU .  there is probable 3-4 kids a year going else where and doing well who did not get an offer to play for their beloved Arkansas.  We must first start building loyalty by offering scholarships.