Rivals Recruiting Ranking - Hogs @ #25

[Pork Twain]

Win and they will come?  How did that work out with BP's two great years?  It takes more than wins to make something happen out of thin air.  There are very few coaches that could come in here and pull in top talent and those guys have better jobs, at better locations, making a ton of money.

Just pisses some of you off to no end that we have not had a four year stretch of recruiting this good or with such a low miss-rate and so many of the players still on the team.

[EastexHawg]

Win and they will come?  How did that work out with BP's two great years?  It takes more than wins to make something happen out of thin air.  There are very few coaches that could come in here and pull in top talent and those guys have better jobs, at better locations, making a ton of money.

Just pisses some of you off to no end that we have not had a four year stretch of recruiting this good or with such a low miss-rate and so many of the players still on the team.

He got fired and replaced by John L. Smith right after the second of those great years.  It's like saying James Dean never accomplished much after his first five movies.

[LZH]

He got fired and replaced by John L. Smith right after the second of those great years.  It's like saying James Dean never accomplished much after his first five movies.

I thought he only made 3.....

[EastexHawg]

I thought he only made 3.....

Even worse.  Slacker!

[LZH]

Even worse.  Slacker!

Ha!

I tried to watch Rebel Without a Cause one time and was bored stiff 30 minutes into it. Never finished it.

[Darren DeLoach]

He got fired and replaced by John L. Smith right after the second of those great years.  It's like saying James Dean never accomplished much after his first five movies.

His inability to put together a staff and his rancid 41st ranked recruiting class in his third year injured this program way worse than his forays with young women and subsequent crash.  Our staff is recruiting as well as it has since Ford.

[tomarkansawyer]

Kentucky has bourbon...........

...And KFC.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Win and they will come?  How did that work out with BP's two great years?  It takes more than wins to make something happen out of thin air.  There are very few coaches that could come in here and pull in top talent and those guys have better jobs, at better locations, making a ton of money.

Just pisses some of you off to no end that we have not had a four year stretch of recruiting this good or with such a low miss-rate and so many of the players still on the team.

I believe that most of the time, "win and they will come" rings true. Now that doesn't mean that you can win big for a year or two and recruits will start flocking to your program, I think it requires sustained winning and the right staff. As I pointed out above Baylor went through a spurt of winning at a double-digit rate for 4 of 5 years from 2011-15 and raised their recruiting rankings from the 30's/40's to around the top 25 mark for a couple of years. Had they not had the problems that they did and Briles stayed, I think that they might still be winning in double-digits and their recruiting might have improved even more.

Closer to home in the SEC, in 2002 Alabama (Franchione) produced a #47 class and then went 10-3 and left Alabama. Mike Shula took the reins and despite not winning a great deal from 2003-2006 (26-24) he did improve their recruiting ranking by landing classes that were ranked 41, 30, 21 and 15. Saban's first class was ranked #13 but thereafter he had classes ranked 3, 2 and 5, followed by a string of #1's. But as we all know their recruiting philosophy and methodology is a little bit different than that of Arkansas.

Win and I believe that they will come, but it is going to require sustained winning at Arkansas and by that I mean winning 9-11 games each year for a string of years to exceed 4 in a row. The real trick (considering the chicken or the egg thing) is how to get that done before the higher levels of talent arrive. I'm not sure that sustained, longer term winning in the double digits (exceeding 4 years in a row), coupled with higher recruiting rankings that rise into the top 10-15, can be accomplished doing things the way we do now. I believe that the way we go about our business the best we can hope for is to string together a few seasons of 9-10 wins with the occasional 11 win season (maybe even 12 once in a great while) and the 6-7 win season occasionally. But that's JMO.

[Pork Twain]

I believe that most of the time, "win and they will come" rings true. Now that doesn't mean that you can win big for a year or two and recruits will start flocking to your program, I think it requires sustained winning and the right staff. As I pointed out above Baylor went through a spurt of winning at a double-digit rate for 4 of 5 years from 2011-15 and raised their recruiting rankings from the 30's/40's to around the top 25 mark for a couple of years. Had they not had the problems that they did and Briles stayed, I think that they might still be winning in double-digits and their recruiting might have improved even more.

Closer to home in the SEC, in 2002 Alabama (Franchione) produced a #47 class and then went 10-3 and left Alabama. Mike Shula took the reins and despite not winning a great deal from 2003-2006 (26-24) he did improve their recruiting ranking by landing classes that were ranked 41, 30, 21 and 15. Saban's first class was ranked #13 but thereafter he had classes ranked 3, 2 and 5, followed by a string of #1's. But as we all know their recruiting philosophy and methodology is a little bit different than that of Arkansas.

Win and I believe that they will come, but it is going to require sustained winning at Arkansas and by that I mean winning 9-11 games each year for a string of years to exceed 4 in a row. The real trick (considering the chicken or the egg thing) is how to get that done before the higher levels of talent arrive. I'm not sure that sustained, longer term winning in the double digits (exceeding 4 years in a row), coupled with higher recruiting rankings that rise into the top 10-15, can be accomplished doing things the way we do now. I believe that the way we go about our business the best we can hope for is to string together a few seasons of 9-10 wins with the occasional 11 win season (maybe even 12 once in a great while) and the 6-7 win season occasionally. But that's JMO.

That sounds about right and I honestly believe that with the depth we have finally built up, that trend will begin this year.  It has taken time to recover from the BP recruiting.

[Redhogs]

SMU is located in Dallas.  Rice is located in Houston.  Tulane is in New Orleans.  UCF is in Orlando and USF is in Tampa.  San Diego is in...well, San Diego.  Would you expect any of those programs, despite their locations, to recruit better than an SEC program such as Arkansas?

Let's cut the disingenuous "recruit better than 80%" crap.  Being part of an SEC program is an advantage for any recruiter. 

As for what our administration accepts, if they didn't accept 25-26 overall and 10-22 in conference we would have a new coaching staff instead of agreeing that Bielema has at least two more years.  If most fans didn't feel the same way, almost every "negative" post on this board wouldn't begin with the disclaimer "I'm not saying I want to see BB gone."

There is no need to explain WHY so many are willing to accept the current state of the program.  I already incorporated the built-in excuses into my original post.  If you are offering reasons, excuses, and a rationale why the current state of the program should be expected you're really only explaining why you accept what is going on.

You are beating your head against a wall....sadly. This is a mediocre program and don't see it changing anytime soon. Enjoy..

[Redhogs]

That sounds about right and I honestly believe that with the depth we have finally built up, that trend will begin this year.  It has taken time to recover from the BP recruiting.

"I'm not sure that sustained, longer term winning in the double digits (exceeding 4 years in a row), coupled with higher recruiting rankings that rise into the top 10-15, can be accomplished doing things the way we do now. "   Correct, thank you.

[Redhogs]

Win and they will come?  How did that work out with BP's two great years?  It takes more than wins to make something happen out of thin air.  There are very few coaches that could come in here and pull in top talent and those guys have better jobs, at better locations, making a ton of money.

Just pisses some of you off to no end that we have not had a four year stretch of recruiting this good or with such a low miss-rate and so many of the players still on the team.

No, but we are pissed off that all this recruiting "success" has translated into a 7-6 record in year 4. And stop with the BP crap, nothing to do with the current state of the program or all this brilliant success your are touting.

[hogsanity]

No, but we are pissed off that all this recruiting "success" has translated into a 7-6 record in year 4. And stop with the BP crap, nothing to do with the current state of the program or all this brilliant success your are touting.

It has nothing to do with BP, but it does point out that the " win and they will come " theory is just not reality. I do not think it would matter if BB goes 21-5 over the next 2 years, I think the recruiting would stay about the same, 20-25 nationally and 7-9 in the sec.

[Atlhogfan1]

Urban Meyer seems to be doing pretty well out of state, specifically in one state that should be considered one of our more fertile recruiting areas. Tom Osborne recruited nationally to Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln freakin Nebraska. OU wouldn't be OU without Texas recruits, specifically the DFW area. Oregon taps California for most of their talent. 25+ years ago ol' Bill McCartney won a national championship at Colorado, and even though I don't know where those better players came from I highly doubt many of them were from Colorado.

Point is, some schools recruit well out of state because they have to. We are one of those schools. I have often wondered why one of the assistant coaching positions isn't basically reserved for an ace recruiter, even though he may be a below average position coach. Who gives a darn if he can coach or not? Let the other assistants take up the slack.

Btw, I have no idea how many kids we offered from the state of Texas these past few years, but we need to be hitting Texas hard.

You had to reach back for some of those.  McCartney and CU?

Urban Meyer has 3 NC's and coaches at Oh St.  You comparing that to Arkansas' brand and ability to recruit out of state?

Osborne retired after the 1997 season.  Yes NU was able to recruit outside of its state due to a brand built in an 8 team conference going back to Bob Devaney in the 60s and built on by Osborne.  Since losing to Miami in the Rose Bowl in 01, this has been program has finished unranked 8 times, barely squeaked into a poll two more times and hasn't lost fewer than 4 games since 2003.  Their recruiting is ranked in the same range ours is most every class.

Oregon recruiting rankings in the same range as ours.  It has declined since they were caught by the NCAA paying the street agents in Texas.

Colorado.  McCartney retired in 1994 before the Big 12 was even formed.  Again, 8 team conference.  They got impact players from California and Michigan. 

OU - Probably the mo$t documented hi$tory of cheating in college football going back to Bud Wilkin$on.  OU ha$ had relation$hip$ built in Texa$ for going on 6 decade$.  Not accu$$ing $toop$ of eggregiou$ cheating now.  The connection$ have already been $et.  It is multigenerational now. 

Not sure how any of this relates to us in 2017. 

[Atlhogfan1]

In general terms, if we were in the B12, our current class would be 2nd in conference, in the B10-, fifth to sixth, Pac 12, 5th and ACC, 4th.  We've placed ourselves in the most difficult place to get better because we are directly facing better teams located in better recruiting beds. 

I often wonder why we cannot recruit even close to OU.  About the only thing they have that we don't is reputation over time.  There location is not superior to ours in my opinion.  Their facilities overall is not better than ours.  They do have far superior coaching in my opinion.  But do they have a system that is 20 recruiting ranking spots better than ours.  They must have cause they usually beat us about that much.  But what is it?

OU - See my reply to LZH.  You really don't understands OU's history of recruiting Texas or how strong their ties are there? 

[Pork Twain]

"I'm not sure that sustained, longer term winning in the double digits (exceeding 4 years in a row), coupled with higher recruiting rankings that rise into the top 10-15, can be accomplished doing things the way we do now. "   Correct, thank you.

Meaning what?  Start paying players more?

[Pork Twain]

No, but we are pissed off that all this recruiting "success" has translated into a 7-6 record in year 4. And stop with the BP crap, nothing to do with the current state of the program or all this brilliant success your are touting.

Sadly your blind trolling has led you to ignore what a lack of depth will do to a team in the SEC.  Especially as hot as the SEC has been the last 4 years.

[Pork Twain]

Urban Meyer seems to be doing pretty well out of state, specifically in one state that should be considered one of our more fertile recruiting areas. Tom Osborne recruited nationally to Lincoln, Nebraska. Lincoln freakin Nebraska. OU wouldn't be OU without Texas recruits, specifically the DFW area. Oregon taps California for most of their talent. 25+ years ago ol' Bill McCartney won a national championship at Colorado, and even though I don't know where those better players came from I highly doubt many of them were from Colorado.

Point is, some schools recruit well out of state because they have to. We are one of those schools. I have often wondered why one of the assistant coaching positions isn't basically reserved for an ace recruiter, even though he may be a below average position coach. Who gives a darn if he can coach or not? Let the other assistants take up the slack.

Btw, I have no idea how many kids we offered from the state of Texas these past few years, but we need to be hitting Texas hard.

I you have to stretch that far to make connections, there probably aren't any.

[Pork Twain]

This recruiting class is a disaster. Beilema is finished here. Sure, he will be the coach for the next two years, but this program is stuck in the mud.

Worst attempt at trolling ever.  At least the normal trolls try to not be so obvious.

[lutherheggs]

It looks like the typical average recruiting year for Arkansas football.  I'm sure just about any 5-10 year period you sampled since recruiting rankings began will have Arkansas ranked somewhere between 25 and 35 in the country, 8 and 11 in the SEC.  So we are doing exactly what we do every year.

Agree with this. Around 10th in the SEC every year, give or take one position. Around 25th in the country every year, give or take several positions. And last 5 seasons have not done better than 7 wins in regular season. About right for this quality of recruiting and playing in the SEC.

[Redhogs]

Sadly your blind trolling has led you to ignore what a lack of depth will do to a team in the SEC.  Especially as hot as the SEC has been the last 4 years.

Love it. Anybody that does not agree with you is a troll.  Piss off.

[Redhogs]

Agree with this. Around 10th in the SEC every year, give or take one position. Around 25th in the country every year, give or take several positions. And last 5 seasons have not done better than 7 wins in regular season. About right for this quality of recruiting and playing in the SEC.

Correct...and results will be the same.

[OutlawHawg]

Bret is lazy at recruiting. He is content to just take what he can get and hope they develop. It may have worked at Wisconsin but unless he shows the motivation he did his first year when he signed Kirkland and Collins we'll never break into the top tier of the SEC.

[hogsanity]

Bret is lazy at recruiting. He is content to just take what he can get and hope they develop. It may have worked at Wisconsin but unless he shows the motivation he did his first year when he signed Kirkland and Collins we'll never break into the top tier of the SEC.

So were all the other coaches we have had while in the SEC lazy also? They all have recruited at the same OR lower levels.

[kaki]

Bret is lazy at recruiting. He is content to just take what he can get and hope they develop. It may have worked at Wisconsin but unless he shows the motivation he did his first year when he signed Kirkland and Collins we'll never break into the top tier of the SEC.

Just how would you know this?  I know this is a message board, so opinions are often provided instead of fact, but seems only fair when making statements like this there should be a little background given, otherwise it appears one is just talking crap. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Bret is lazy at recruiting. He is content to just take what he can get and hope they develop. It may have worked at Wisconsin but unless he shows the motivation he did his first year when he signed Kirkland and Collins we'll never break into the top tier of the SEC.

This guy keeps posting over-the-top negative horseshit. Should be put on a short leash.

[KennyForAD]

Stacked? Yet they barely break the top 10 once? It clearly points to great development and utilization of the talent they do get. 

Or maybe it suggests that there is little appreciable difference between a no.1 class and a no. 12 class.

[azhog10]

So were all the other coaches we have had while in the SEC lazy also? They all have recruited at the same OR lower levels.

Should sound familiar, but what was the payroll for coaches at Arkansas like for those previous coaches? Seems like we are paying a lot more money to assistants to get the same or worse results in terms of recruiting AND overall outcomes.

[hogsanity]

Should sound familiar, but what was the payroll for coaches at Arkansas like for those previous coaches? Seems like we are paying a lot more money to assistants to get the same or worse results in terms of recruiting AND overall outcomes.

everyone else is paying more too.

[LZH]

I you have to stretch that far to make connections, there probably aren't any.

Who said anything about connections? Those were just examples off the top of my head of guys that figured out how to get it done.

And iirc Bobby Petrino recruited quite a few guys that are in the NFL right now, or had a shot at playing pro ball. I cannot understand this idea that he recruited a bunch of trash. Recruited well enough to win 21 games his last two years. Just because the bottom fell out after he left doesn't mean those recruits weren't good players. Maybe BB is not the coach that BP is and can't maximize these kids potential. It is quite possible Bobby could have continued winning 9-10-11 games with those same kids that you and others obviously think weren't very good.

[Piggfoot]

Bret is lazy at recruiting. He is content to just take what he can get and hope they develop. It may have worked at Wisconsin but unless he shows the motivation he did his first year when he signed Kirkland and Collins we'll never break into the top tier of the SEC.

You sir are ill informed and if I were a MOD you would be given a much needed rest. In spite of the opinion of Fayettevillians, Fayetteville is no Madison, Wisconsin. He did a great job of flipping those recruits who would have gone to Wisconsin had he not left.

[PLHawg]

So we're now up to 24 on Rivals.  If we hadn't taken a couple of 2* recruits we would have been probably at 22, so I'm not really seeing how this class is a disaster.  If a couple of our high 3* had been bumped to 4* (and they probably should have been) we're sitting on a top 20 recruiting class.  Everyone that's sitting around waiting for top 15 classes are going to be perpetually disappointed because it's not going to happen.

[Razorbackers]

Win and I believe that they will come, but it is going to require sustained winning at Arkansas and by that I mean winning 9-11 games each year for a string of years to exceed 4 in a row. The real trick (considering the chicken or the egg thing) is how to get that done before the higher levels of talent arrive. I'm not sure that sustained, longer term winning in the double digits (exceeding 4 years in a row), coupled with higher recruiting rankings that rise into the top 10-15, can be accomplished doing things the way we do now. I believe that the way we go about our business the best we can hope for is to string together a few seasons of 9-10 wins with the occasional 11 win season (maybe even 12 once in a great while) and the 6-7 win season occasionally. But that's JMO.

Has that ever happened?

[hogsanity]

Has that ever happened?

85-89 in the dying days of the swc

[The_Iceman]

If you want to build a power, pro-style offense, I suggest we follow Stanfords model:

[Atlhogfan1]

If you want to build a power, pro-style offense, I suggest we follow Stanfords model:

Would be nice if we had something as unique and valuable to sell as they do although they do have a more limited pool. 

[Darren DeLoach]

I am beginning to think half this site was asleep the last 30 years. It's like they think we have Florida/Texas talent at our disposal.

I am good friends with William Hampton. We discuss recruiting this time of the year; like everyone that is a fan. Will was a little recruited linebacker out of Forrest City. He was looking at Memphis, ASU, UAPB, Grambling, and a pathetic Ole Miss. When Frank saw him practice and then play, he got the offer. He sat in his coach's office with Coach Broyles, and was told this, "Here at Arkansas we take great pride in beating schools with the boys that Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma skip over." He added something else that Will remembers, and paraphrasing---even my best recruits only came because of relationships I have with their coach or parent or they were born to a family that were Razorback fans.

We were great in the past because our Head Coach could hire great assistants (Johnson, Switzer, Hatfield, Gibbs, Majors) that could recognize talent that the high profile schools did not recruit, and then coach them into greatness. The same must be true now as then. Nutt was too lazy/incompotent, Petrino too unrelational, Bielema is still yet to be determined. I believe based on his past that he is made of the same cloth that brought us to the peak of College Football all those years ago.

[hogsanity]

I am beginning to think half this site was asleep the last 30 years. It's like they think we have Florida/Texas talent at our disposal.

I am good friends with William Hampton. We discuss recruiting this time of the year; like everyone that is a fan. Will was a little recruited linebacker out of Forrest City. He was looking at Memphis, ASU, UAPB, Grambling, and a pathetic Ole Miss. When Frank saw him practice and then play, he got the offer. He sat in his coach's office with Coach Broyles, and was told this, "Here at Arkansas we take great pride in beating schools with the boys that Texas, Tennessee, and Oklahoma skip over." He added something else that Will remembers, and paraphrasing---even my best recruits only came because of relationships I have with their coach or parent or they were born to a family that were Razorback fans.

We were great in the past because our Head Coach could hire great assistants (Johnson, Switzer, Hatfield, Gibbs, Majors) that could recognize talent that the high profile schools did not recruit, and then coach them into greatness. The same must be true now as then. Nutt was too lazy/incompotent, Petrino too unrelational, Bielema is still yet to be determined. I believe based on his past that he is made of the same cloth that brought us to the peak of College Football all those years ago.

problem with that is that now the boys that those schools skip over are also being recruited by BAylor, A&M, LSU, old misses, msu, and about 2 dozen other schools.

[1highhog]

...And KFC.

[Been10Hog]

Would be nice if we had something as unique and valuable to sell as they do although they do have a more limited pool.

Tyson!!!! We need to focus on high school kids who want to go into poultry engineering!

[31to6]

Coach Beilema worked for Coach Snyder and considers him one of his mentors, (you knew that ) so yeah, he's probably emulating Snyder's philosophies regarding JUCOs.

Snyder is an anomaly. If he were able to recruit as well to K-State as CBB and Petrino (or even HDN) recruits to Arkansas, he'd have another couple B12 championships *at least*.

[code red]

If you want to build a power, pro-style offense, I suggest we follow Stanfords model:

And that is???  Something not attainable at Arkansas.  So, why are we in 20 personnel? Ever.

[OutlawHawg]

This class may not look good on paper but a lot of these guys have big frames or athletic parents. Rest of the SEC better watch out.

[Pork Twain]

Love it. Anybody that does not agree with you is a troll.  Piss off.

Just you, likely the biggest troll I have witnessed.

[Pork Twain]

Who said anything about connections? Those were just examples off the top of my head of guys that figured out how to get it done.

And iirc Bobby Petrino recruited quite a few guys that are in the NFL right now, or had a shot at playing pro ball. I cannot understand this idea that he recruited a bunch of trash. Recruited well enough to win 21 games his last two years. Just because the bottom fell out after he left doesn't mean those recruits weren't good players. Maybe BB is not the coach that BP is and can't maximize these kids potential. It is quite possible Bobby could have continued winning 9-10-11 games with those same kids that you and others obviously think weren't very good.

Apples and oranges when comparing different eras.  If you wish to continue believing that those recruiting issues would not have caught up with us, that's your prerogative.  Not sure the endgame though.

[DeltaBoy]

Baylor ahead of Texas is shocking. Hogs are in good shape as they consistently are in the top 25 getting players that fit their system

That funny for sure.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So we're now up to 24 on Rivals.  If we hadn't taken a couple of 2* recruits we would have been probably at 22, so I'm not really seeing how this class is a disaster.  If a couple of our high 3* had been bumped to 4* (and they probably should have been) we're sitting on a top 20 recruiting class.  Everyone that's sitting around waiting for top 15 classes are going to be perpetually disappointed because it's not going to happen.

Doubtful those 2 stars factored into the ranking.  Most services only apply a certain number in the class toward the ranking, not every kid in the class.  Often times only the top 20 in the class factor into the class rank.  I believe Rivals does it this way. 

[LZH]

Apples and oranges when comparing different eras.  If you wish to continue believing that those recruiting issues would not have caught up with us, that's your prerogative.  Not sure the endgame though.

I did give myself some wiggle room by saying "could have"....who knows what would have happened. I do know Bobby would not have gone 3-9 two years in a row.

[The_Iceman]

And that is???  Something not attainable at Arkansas.  So, why are we in 20 personnel? Ever.

I don't think we will ever be able to land the #1 QB, #1 TE, and #2 and #3 OTs in the same class. But, we should be able to recruit some quality linemen every year.

[Razorbackers]

If you want to build a power, pro-style offense, I suggest we follow Stanfords model:

lol you mean be in California, be a private university, and sit between San Jose and San Francisco?

I mean yeah let's do that.