New style offense

[steveaustin69]

a decade is not a long time if you compare it to the amount of time football has been around, making the arrival of the spread offense a relatively new concept in the sport that continues to grow and evolve. I know you were trying to be funny, but think it through next time.

It hasn't begun. It has infiltrated, and did so years ago.

[OkieBack]

1. I believe those "three and outs" are going to come so fast it just "messes us up," at least initially.
2. Then we'll lose a lot of games 28-49 with a porous defense, wilting in the 4th quarter.
3.  Finally, we'll average 6.5-7 season wins with scores of 49-42, if we're lucky.

Then we find a new coach with everyone saying this was never the guy.   

BLECH.

You say all this assuming that Chavis will not be able to put anything resembling a defense on the field.  Go back and look at the 2018 Razorback schedule.  With even slight improvement we could be .500.  Our schedule is exactly what this team needs with the new staff.

[hogsanity]

Great point, and to make matters even better, we have a greater level of access to players that can successfully run the system right here in our own backyard. It's been here for years, but we neglected it in favor of being uncommon and what not.

Just because pondunk rural special #3 runs the spread in HS does not mean the players running it are SEC level.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Just because pondunk rural special #3 runs the spread in HS does not mean the players running it are SEC level.

You do know that the only time in our history we ran any type of spread offense we went 21-5 with players from our "backyard" don't you? 

[jm]

Of course offense matters and it matters that OUR offense is of a type that takes advantage of the players WE can get.  A game doesn't have to be in the 50's to be a shootout but you normally do have to score in the 2nd half to win even if you have a good defense.  At least Arkansas does!!!

It doesn't matter if we can't fix the defense. We gave up over 40 per game on average in our losses last year. We will not "outscore" great teams if we give up over 40 per game.

[Al Boarland]

Better to be late to the party than never. Defenses have caught up, but this gives us a better chance to win games where we have similar talent.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Better to be late to the party than never. Defenses have caught up, but this gives us a better chance to win games where we have similar talent.

Sad thing is, we were ahead of curve when we had Petrino now, evidently we are behind the curve.

[Cinco de Hogo]

It doesn't matter if we can't fix the defense. We gave up over 40 per game on average in our losses last year. We will not "outscore" great teams if we give up over 40 per game.

There were 2-3 games pretty much every year under BB that we lost because of offensive mistakes that wouldn't have been made under Petrino.  If we just fix that problem it makes us better but I also expect Chavis to improve the defense. All together we still may not win the SEC anytime soon but 8,9,10 win seasons are entirely possible.

[Busta_Nutt]

There were 2-3 games pretty much every year under BB that we lost because of offensive mistakes that wouldn't have been made under Petrino.  If we just fix that problem it makes us better but I also expect Chavis to improve the defense. All together we still may not win the SEC anytime soon but 8,9,10 win seasons are entirely possible.

Especially in the Big 12.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Especially in the Big 12.

No you didn't go there!

[bennyl08]

You do know that the only time in our history we ran any type of spread offense we went 21-5 with players from our "backyard" don't you?

That "spread" offense heavily utilized a fullback and an in-line TE. Ran a power run scheme, wasn't no-huddle, had the qb go through progression rather than one read and run type of stuff.

It was a lot more similar to what we saw under Bielema, particularly with Enos, than what Morris has shown in the past, though there's a good chance he will incorporate more pro-style aspects into his scheme here which we haven't seen as much from him in the past.

Hope whatever he does end up doing here will work, and I'm a believer that with the right playcaller and right players, any offense can work (by right players I don't mean you have to have top 5 NFL draft pick type stuff, though if you don't have NFL talent at all, then nothing is going to work).

[Busta_Nutt]

No you didn't go there!

I'm just trying to build a foundation for you and your always-valid points.

[steveaustin69]

That "spread" offense heavily utilized a fullback and an in-line TE. Ran a power run scheme, wasn't no-huddle, had the qb go through progression rather than one read and run type of stuff.

It was a lot more similar to what we saw under Bielema, particularly with Enos, than what Morris has shown in the past, though there's a good chance he will incorporate more pro-style aspects into his scheme here which we haven't seen as much from him in the past.

Hope whatever he does end up doing here will work, and I'm a believer that with the right playcaller and right players, any offense can work (by right players I don't mean you have to have top 5 NFL draft pick type stuff, though if you don't have NFL talent at all, then nothing is going to work).

I would have to agree with you there; think that's a safe bet.

[Cinco de Hogo]

That "spread" offense heavily utilized a fullback and an in-line TE. Ran a power run scheme, wasn't no-huddle, had the qb go through progression rather than one read and run type of stuff.

It was a lot more similar to what we saw under Bielema, particularly with Enos, than what Morris has shown in the past, though there's a good chance he will incorporate more pro-style aspects into his scheme here which we haven't seen as much from him in the past.

Hope whatever he does end up doing here will work, and I'm a believer that with the right playcaller and right players, any offense can work (by right players I don't mean you have to have top 5 NFL draft pick type stuff, though if you don't have NFL talent at all, then nothing is going to work).

I agree BB and Enos tried, I guess the difference was the bonehead at the top.  I remember a lot of people saying and/or complaining about Petrino running a spread offense at first even though he called it a power spread.  Seems i've also heard from CCM himself that his offense at Arkansas won't be the offense he ran at SMU exactly.   I guess we just need to stay tuned!

[Cinco de Hogo]

I'm just trying to build a foundation for you and your always-valid points.

LOL! I've heard that a firm foundation is a good thing.  SEC, SEC, SEC 🤑🤮🤢

[010HogFan]

It hasn't begun. It has infiltrated, and did so years ago.

That's literally the word I used in my first post. You're arguing semantics at this point.

[010HogFan]

Just because pondunk rural special #3 runs the spread in HS does not mean the players running it are SEC level.

That's a given. By "our own backyard", I mean Texas mainly. Bret went down there and made all the coaches mad. In that sense, we just got the anti-Bret. There are SEC level players growing on trees down there.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We were 91st in plays per game. SMU was 23rd.

It's a huge adjustment.

That's true but what that actually means is that SMU ran 77 Plays P/Gm and we ran 70 (69.eight) Plays P/Gm. An average of less than 1 more play per drive. Yes, being ranked 23rd compared to 91st sounds like a huge margin until you look at the actual number of plays that are involved in that ranking. We will go faster, no doubt about that. Hopefully our team will be conditioned to handle that pace of play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/plays-per-game

[farmhawg]

Just because pondunk rural special #3 runs the spread in HS does not mean the players running it are SEC level.

Well that is the best endorsement so far. Typically whatever is the opposite of what you believe works.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

The way I see Morris offense is it's more of a no huddle, not allowing the opponents defense to substitute and therefore creating favorable mismatches while wearing the defense out over the course of a game.  As Muskogee stated, the time to snap isn't that much different.

To answer the OP's original question.  Yes this offensive style will survive.

They run the 1st part of the series at a normal rate of speed to save our defense from the crappiest of 3-n-out wear and tear. After a 1st down is achieved it's peddle to the metal, and I mean fast, fast, fast...

[CDBHawg]

That's true but what that actually means is that SMU ran 77 Plays P/Gm and we ran 70 (69.eight) Plays P/Gm. An average of less than 1 more play per drive. Yes, being ranked 23rd compared to 91st sounds like a huge margin until you look at the actual number of plays that are involved in that ranking. We will go faster, no doubt about that. Hopefully our team will be conditioned to handle that pace of play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/plays-per-game

We averaged 5.3 yds per play. They averaged 6.2.


Couple the faster pace with bigger plays and I think you're going to see a huge difference in how fast we play.

For instance if SMU had averaged 5.3 yds per play like us, they'd of had to run 90 plays per game to keep their yardage total.

If we had averaged 6.2, like SMU, we'd of ran 60 plays per game.


It's going to be a world of difference. Morris is known because of his fast paced offense. Beliema was a defensive guy.

[racinghog]

That "spread" offense heavily utilized a fullback and an in-line TE. Ran a power run scheme, wasn't no-huddle, had the qb go through progression rather than one read and run type of stuff.

It was a lot more similar to what we saw under Bielema, particularly with Enos, than what Morris has shown in the past, though there's a good chance he will incorporate more pro-style aspects into his scheme here which we haven't seen as much from him in the past.

Hope whatever he does end up doing here will work, and I'm a believer that with the right playcaller and right players, any offense can work (by right players I don't mean you have to have top 5 NFL draft pick type stuff, though if you don't have NFL talent at all, then nothing is going to work).

Thank you Benny. Petrino ran an NFL offense. The QB took many snaps under center (this a weakness to straight spread offenses in my opinion) with changing personnel groupings.
And by the way Morriss did not get his offense from Malzhan, he got instruction on how to speed his offense up or play faster. This is directly from Coach at the Atlanta Nike clinic.

[IronHog]

You do know that the only time in our history we ran any type of spread offense we went 21-5 with players from our "backyard" don't you? 

Yea but that team had Dennis Johnson

[nwahogfan1]

Now that is a meaningful stat!  Don't know if that makes it a huge adjustment for the players or not, that is to be seen, but the question is will it be a huge adjustment for opposing offenses.

For the players it means to get into better shape because less time to recover between plays especially the OLM.  Now we want our OLM to be 300 lbs without much body fat so they can move better in space and with less rest.

[runich]

The thing I look forward to about our offense is being unpredictable.  With BB you kinda knew what play was going to be ran much of the time....hard to have success with that unless you just have much better atheletes than the other team (that's hard for any team in the SEC, outside of a couple).

I think Whaley will be great for this system, btw

[Knot2brite]

Petrino's teams could go from the I formation to the traditional spread and never change personnel on the field. He didn't run a spread...he ran a pro style offense and CBB ran it in the for a couple years but he couldn't get a solid group of linemen. The spread that everyone wants might prove to be the worst thing ever because I don't think we will get the athletes to run it consistently. But it doesn't matter what offense they run if they don't have a defense and we haven't had a defense worth a darn in 15 years

[oldhawg]

That's true but what that actually means is that SMU ran 77 Plays P/Gm and we ran 70 (69.eight) Plays P/Gm. An average of less than 1 more play per drive. Yes, being ranked 23rd compared to 91st sounds like a huge margin until you look at the actual number of plays that are involved in that ranking. We will go faster, no doubt about that. Hopefully our team will be conditioned to handle that pace of play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/plays-per-game

If players are in shape, seven more plays a game should not too taxing.

[hogsanity]

You do know that the only time in our history we ran any type of spread offense we went 21-5 with players from our "backyard" don't you? 

You do know that offense BP ran utilized a FB, and the I alot as well as a on the line TE. It is not like they were running 4 and 5 wide read option rpo stuff with RM or TW. And, do you see another class in AR HS coming anytime soon where a town for 4000 people has 3 nfl draft picks at wr/te in one class?

[Cinco de Hogo]

You do know that offense BP ran utilized a FB, and the I alot as well as a on the line TE. It is not like they were running 4 and 5 wide read option rpo stuff with RM or TW. And, do you see another class in AR HS coming anytime soon where a town for 4000 people has 3 nfl draft picks at wr/te in one class?

I've been telling you guys for years that the HUNH is not a offense it's a playcalling system and just like with your description of Petrino's offense(which by the way I find you revisionist opinions funny as opposed to what you we probably saying in 2008) you can run multiple offensive schemes out of it.   If we don't know what we are going to see with CCM that means our opponents don't either.  Yes, I do expect to see good classes out of Arkansas from time to time and we are way past due.  I'm trusting that CCM will uncover some talent but more importantly that he will know what to do with it on his team.

You seem to be very sure that CBB's only problem was talent.

[razorsharptusk]

Not only do I think it will survive, I think it gives Arkansas a better edge, possibly the only edge,  to compete with some of these power house SEC teams that we have trouble recruiting against.  Much of the talent we would have needed to run a Bielema style offense was looking at other schools that were already having success in running that style of offense. Not many players are going to choose Arkansas over Alabama when given the opportunity between the two.  There are always a few exceptions.  But there are players, great players, that love to play this spread style ball and I think Coach Morris and the Hogs will be successful with it.

The style of offense he wants to play coupled with his ability to reach these young guys that want to play it and sell it to them looks like a match made in heaven. Time will tell when the product hits the field.  But we all know speed kills.  And it appears Coach Morris wants to go fast.   Go Hogs!

[razorsharptusk]

You do know that offense BP ran utilized a FB, and the I alot as well as a on the line TE. It is not like they were running 4 and 5 wide read option rpo stuff with RM or TW. And, do you see another class in AR HS coming anytime soon where a town for 4000 people has 3 nfl draft picks at wr/te in one class?

i was concerned at first about Morris having an offense going 5 wide all the time and air raiding, but Coach Morris has said many times that you have to run the football in this league and that we are going to run the football.  He went a step further to say that there are many ways to run the football.  I think it is going to be an exciting offense.

Speaking of Warren, I hear we have a couple of great players on that team that may be D1 prospects.  I think coach needs to head on down and take peek.

[bennyl08]

i was concerned at first about Morris having an offense going 5 wide all the time and air raiding, but Coach Morris has said many times that you have to run the football in this league and that we are going to run the football.  He went a step further to say that there are many ways to run the football.  I think it is going to be an exciting offense.

Speaking of Warren, I hear we have a couple of great players on that team that may be D1 prospects.  I think coach needs to head on down and take peek.

Morris' offense has never been an air raid offense. No need to worry about that.

To me, the big question isn't so much what is done, as why it is done. Take for example motioning a WR across the formation. Petrino, Bielema, and Morris all three do that regularly. Bielema would do that to have an extra blocker where he wants to run the ball, giving the offense a numbers advantage. However, it would also tip off the defense of where a run play is going to go. At his best, he'd mix it up and then have a WR wide open on a play action pass, at his worst, it was predictable play calling. Petrino would motion a WR to do one of two things. It allows the qb to watch how the defense responds to know whether it is man or zone coverage. The other is to get a more favorable coverage matchup. The key thing here is that it doesn't rely on the defense making any mistakes. To the contrary, it expects the defense to play exactly as coached and thus take advantage of the defense executing properly. Morris, at least in the past, has used motion to try to confuse the defense. Get them lined up one place, move somebody quickly and hope that you can snap the ball before the defense has reset itself, otherwise, you're about to run a play mano y mano and good luck.

Every offense is going to have a weak point. Petrino's required a qb that could go through progressions and read the defense at a pro-like level. Compare that to a gus system where it's I'm going to tell you who your first option is, and if he isn't open in 3 seconds, you better be scrambling for yards. With Bielema, it required consistently creative playcalling, but playcalling that didn't go beyond the scope of the scheme (power plays with a finesse line or finesse plays with a power line type of thing). With a lot of the hurry up offenses, they rely on a less than well coached defense. In Morris' defense,

Same thing can be said about going hurry up. Inherently it isn't not pro style to do that. It just depends on why you do it. Defense is visibly tired and you want to take advantage. Star defender took a breather for a snap and you want to keep him off the field. Time is short or you want to prevent there from being a challenge flag. Or, defense just gave up a big play and are on tilt and you want to try to capitalize on that. However, when going hurry up is integral to the offense is when it is bad. When, those same play calls won't work if the defense has time to set, that's when a HUNH offense is doomed to fail because if the defense is able to properly set as quickly as your offense can, then game over.

Long way of typing, relying on your opponent to make mistakes in order for you to succeed is not a sustainable game plan.

*EDIT: I can see where this could come across as me saying the above is what Morris does. That's not what I'm trying to say. He has used elements of that in the past, but he has also used elements of taking advantage of a defense executing properly as well. The key will be what proportion he tries to do either of those things in the future here at Arkansas.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Morris' offense has never been an air raid offense. No need to worry about that.

To me, the big question isn't so much what is done, as why it is done. Take for example motioning a WR across the formation. Petrino, Bielema, and Morris all three do that regularly. Bielema would do that to have an extra blocker where he wants to run the ball, giving the offense a numbers advantage. However, it would also tip off the defense of where a run play is going to go. At his best, he'd mix it up and then have a WR wide open on a play action pass, at his worst, it was predictable play calling. Petrino would motion a WR to do one of two things. It allows the qb to watch how the defense responds to know whether it is man or zone coverage. The other is to get a more favorable coverage matchup. The key thing here is that it doesn't rely on the defense making any mistakes. To the contrary, it expects the defense to play exactly as coached and thus take advantage of the defense executing properly. Morris, at least in the past, has used motion to try to confuse the defense. Get them lined up one place, move somebody quickly and hope that you can snap the ball before the defense has reset itself, otherwise, you're about to run a play mano y mano and good luck.

Every offense is going to have a weak point. Petrino's required a qb that could go through progressions and read the defense at a pro-like level. Compare that to a gus system where it's I'm going to tell you who your first option is, and if he isn't open in 3 seconds, you better be scrambling for yards. With Bielema, it required consistently creative playcalling, but playcalling that didn't go beyond the scope of the scheme (power plays with a finesse line or finesse plays with a power line type of thing). With a lot of the hurry up offenses, they rely on a less than well coached defense. In Morris' defense,

Same thing can be said about going hurry up. Inherently it isn't not pro style to do that. It just depends on why you do it. Defense is visibly tired and you want to take advantage. Star defender took a breather for a snap and you want to keep him off the field. Time is short or you want to prevent there from being a challenge flag. Or, defense just gave up a big play and are on tilt and you want to try to capitalize on that. However, when going hurry up is integral to the offense is when it is bad. When, those same play calls won't work if the defense has time to set, that's when a HUNH offense is doomed to fail because if the defense is able to properly set as quickly as your offense can, then game over.

Long way of typing, relying on your opponent to make mistakes in order for you to succeed is not a sustainable game plan.

*EDIT: I can see where this could come across as me saying the above is what Morris does. That's not what I'm trying to say. He has used elements of that in the past, but he has also used elements of taking advantage of a defense executing properly as well. The key will be what proportion he tries to do either of those things in the future here at Arkansas.

Good read and i'm sure the objective is to operate your side of the ball properly whether the other side does or not.  Seems to me the reasons why Enos had trouble running HIS offense was not that we had horrible O-lineman but more about how they were spaced and the technique they were taught.  We couldn't make hay running up the middle or even off tackle all day, surprise surprise but at the same time I think BB and Anderson didn't allow spacing and really the technique that would be needed for a spread or uptempo.  Speed needs a hole or gap(Space) and whether inside or outside we couldn't create enough of them.

[Hawgphat]

It is my thoroughly unqualified opinion that any realistic hopes we may have of registering a winning season on this first campaign out of the chute in "The Morris Era" will rest squarely upon the competency of our retooled DEFENSE, - - rather than upon our new offensive alignment and our individual player personnel skill-sets.  I would hate to think that we would be obliged to win 100 point total scoring binges in all of our games in weekly shootouts in order to realize a steady progression of wins.

[DeltaBoy]

Backs that can catch a football will be fine.

Once again, The HUNH is not an offense, it's a scheme or playcalling system.  You can RUN any offense you want to run out of it and you can take 7 seconds or you can take 25 seconds to snap the ball AS long as you Hurry Up No Huddle so as not to allow the defense to sub.  You can run the ball between the tackles every single play if you want to.

Gus did this at Hughes HS and took them to the state title game running either the single wing or
Dead T .

[twistitup]

The thing I look forward to about our offense is being unpredictable. 

[oldhawg]

It is my thoroughly unqualified opinion that any realistic hopes we may have of registering a winning season on this first campaign out of the chute in "The Morris Era" will rest squarely upon the competency of our retooled DEFENSE, - - rather than upon our new offensive alignment and our individual player personnel skill-sets.  I would hate to think that we would be obliged to win 100 point total scoring binges in all of our games in weekly shootouts in order to realize a steady progression of wins.

Hence the hiring of Coach John Chavez and the emphasis on recruiting for the defensive side of the ball.  IMO coach Morris understands the need for a good defensive to accompany his "left lane" offense.

[OkieBack]

Hence the hiring of Coach John Chavez and the emphasis on recruiting for the defensive side of the ball.  IMO coach Morris understands the need for a good defensive to accompany his "left lane" offense.

I think the whole defensive point was made loud and clear when CCM was hired.  He has no false expectations as far as how much hard work needs to be done defensively.  I don't think any of these coaches or players are afraid of hard work. 

With that said, Chavis has his work cut out for him.  You don't pay to bring in a guy like Chavis unless you are pretty confident he can get results.  Now whether the offense can get rolling to help out the defense at some point is left to be determined.  I would guess it may be much like Mizzou this last season in which we will hit a dry spell and look clueless and then the light bulb comes on.  May be not.  May be Morris' system will be a breath of fresh air and the guys just love it from the get go.  Who knows.  We will know more come September.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

It's the no-huddle that gives the offense an edge.  You make the D keep certain personnel on the field and try to expose a weakness or mismatch.  You can use the tempo to wear them down at times when you have an advantage.  What's amazing to me is how Saban has adapted to all this.  He's done it with recruiting a certain type of athlete On defense.  Athletes that most other programs can't seem to get in any significant numbers.

[Hogindasticks]

Do any of you think the uptempo that the new staff is bringing with them will survive in the SEC ?

It beat Alabama this year.