RPI

[silvertip]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

[Tomhog™]

Well over the last 10 games we sit at 7-3.  Two of the losses were to respectable LSU and Kentucky.  Only major blemish is the Ole Miss game.  They have come a long, long ways.  First time to have 20 wins this century!

Or did we win 20 in 2000?  I can't remember now...

Yep, we won 20 in 2000.  I forgot about that...

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

Are you gloating a little bit?

[Richard_white]

Well over the last 10 games we sit at 7-3.  Two of the losses were to respectable LSU and Kentucky.  Only major blemish is the Ole Miss game.  They have come a long, long ways.  First time to have 20 wins this century!

Or did we win 20 in 2000?  I can't remember now...

Yep, we won 20 in 2000.  I forgot about that...

You sure?

[HoggerNocker]

We are number 46 in latest NCAA RPI.
NCAA RPI

[Tomhog™]

Well over the last 10 games we sit at 7-3.  Two of the losses were to respectable LSU and Kentucky.  Only major blemish is the Ole Miss game.  They have come a long, long ways.  First time to have 20 wins this century!

Or did we win 20 in 2000?  I can't remember now...

Yep, we won 20 in 2000.  I forgot about that...

You sure?

LOL, yep 00-01 we went 20-11.  Lost in the 1st round to Georgetown by 2...

[HoggerNocker]

Georgia(our next opponent) is #101 in the RPI.  How will this affect our RPI?

[Foshodo]

Well over the last 10 games we sit at 7-3.  Two of the losses were to respectable LSU and Kentucky.  Only major blemish is the Ole Miss game.  They have come a long, long ways.  First time to have 20 wins this century!

Or did we win 20 in 2000?  I can't remember now...

Yep, we won 20 in 2000.  I forgot about that...

You sure?

LOL, yep 00-01 we went 20-11.  Lost in the 1st round to Georgetown by 2...

I hated that game...

[silvertip]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

Are you gloating a little bit?

Not, I'm just enjoying the steady climb in our RPI which is the result of a great streak by the Hawgs.

Maybe the question should be,
"What's YOUR Problem?" Are you not enjoying our recent success?  WPS!!!

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

Are you gloating a little bit?

Not, I'm just enjoying the steady climb in our RPI which is the result of a great streak by the Hawgs.

Maybe the question should be,
"What's YOUR Problem?" Are you not enjoying our recent success?  WPS!!!

Dude...I am enjoying THE HOGS' success..and even yours a little...you stuck to your guns when many of us were out of control.

I still believe what I do about McCurdy.  Nevertheless, I am always happy to see the Hogs succeed. 

WPS!!!!!!!!

[silvertip]

We are number 46 in latest NCAA RPI.
NCAA RPI

Thanks, RazorHawg.

Yeah, I went & looked at that about an hour ago.

It seems the improvement from 55 to 46 was a result of the Bama & TN games which came between the last NCAA RPI & today's release.

So, I wondered, how can the warrennolan one updated after tonight's win be the same? I think it just didn't move---because the slight increase in our own W-L record tonight was probably offset by MSU's poor W-L record and their weak SOS.

Which is an improvement from when we beat SC and our RPI got worse. Home wins only count as 0.6 win in the RPI, so if you beat a really weak team at home, your RPI can actually get worse. I guess in the case of MSU, it was a wash.

[silvertip]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

Are you gloating a little bit?

Not, I'm just enjoying the steady climb in our RPI which is the result of a great streak by the Hawgs.

Maybe the question should be,
"What's YOUR Problem?" Are you not enjoying our recent success?  WPS!!!

Dude...I am enjoying THE HOGS' success..and even yours a little...you stuck to your guns when many of us were out of control.

I still believe what I do about McCurdy.  Nevertheless, I am always happy to see the Hogs succeed. 

WPS!!!!!!!!

Yeah, hairy guy, I am feeling a bit smug---but I've been trying not to gloat. Because this team still makes me nervous before every damn game.

Once we beat UGA, get a couple of wins in the SECT & one or two in the NCAAT--THEN I'll get my gloat on.WPS!!

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

At warrennolan.com. This site calculates RPI every day, so it reflects the win over MSU.

A huge jump fron 55 or whatever before the game. The official NCAA RPI released today, which I haven't seen, can't be compared to this because it won't cover any games since Monday.
Anybody seen the NCAA RPI today?

WPS!!!

Are you gloating a little bit?

Not, I'm just enjoying the steady climb in our RPI which is the result of a great streak by the Hawgs.

Maybe the question should be,
"What's YOUR Problem?" Are you not enjoying our recent success?  WPS!!!

Dude...I am enjoying THE HOGS' success..and even yours a little...you stuck to your guns when many of us were out of control.

I still believe what I do about McCurdy.  Nevertheless, I am always happy to see the Hogs succeed. 

WPS!!!!!!!!

Yeah, hairy guy, I am feeling a bit smug---but I've been trying not to gloat. Because this team still makes me nervous before every damn game.

Once we beat UGA, get a couple of wins in the SECT & one or two in the NCAAT--THEN I'll get my gloat on.WPS!!

Hey, enjoy this, the Hogs deserve it, and you deserve to gloat on Hogville a little.  So do it.

[silvertip]

Georgia(our next opponent) is #101 in the RPI.  How will this affect our RPI?

I think MSU might have a worse RPI than UGA.

Do you know how the RPI "adjusts" wins/losses to account for home games vs road games? A home win only counts as 0.6 win, but a road win counts as 1.4 wins.

So I think winning at UGA ( 1.4 wins) will help our RPI a spot or two. Whereas our home win tonight (0.6 win), I think was offset by MSU's poor W-L record & the poor W-L record of THEIR opponents. Resulting in our RPI not budging despite tonight's win.

What would improve our RPI big-time would be to beat (FLA or KY), and LSU in the SECT.

[Extra Point]

Well over the last 10 games we sit at 7-3.  Two of the losses were to respectable LSU and Kentucky.  Only major blemish is the Ole Miss game.  They have come a long, long ways.  First time to have 20 wins this century!

Or did we win 20 in 2000?  I can't remember now...

Yep, we won 20 in 2000.  I forgot about that...

First time to have 20 REGULAR season wins in quite a while.  I can see us ending up with 24 or 25 depending on matchups in SECT and NCAAT.

[HoopS]

well, to tell you the value in this RPI rating.... look where George Mason is, compared to us.... they are rated a lot better... now... go look at the schedule they played.

absolutely horrible.  their best win is against wich state and then no one else of note.  They beat Creighton as well, but still.  Lost a close one at Miss St.  they are 22-6 in a pansy conference and are way ahead of us.   I aint buying it.

[Apathy]

We have got to do a better job of scheduling from now on.  I understand the past few years have been difficult as we're trying to rebuild, but starting next year, we must schedule better non-conference opponents.  I'm not talking about UConn or Kansas, I'm talking about all the 200+ ranked teams that we have played, they are killing what would otherwise be a good Arkansas RPI.

Case in point:

St. Joesph's currently has an RPI of 45, two spots higher than the Hogs.  Their overall record is 14-12 and their opponents break down like this:

                   1-50       51-100     101-200     201+
                  --------------------------------------
ST. JOE         1-6          4-2           6-4         3-0
ARK               5-5          4-1           6-2         5-0

They look similar, with the exception being that Arkansas has played 3 more games against the top 50 and certainly has had more success.  It seems impossible for a 14-12 team with one win against the top 50 to be ranked ahead of a 20-8 team with 5 wins against the top 50.

The difference must be the 201+ games.  St. Joe's has played # (218), (253), and (286).   

Arkansas has played # (205), (249), (321), (324), and (330).  Oh yeah, we also played # (196) & (198).

We HAVE to stop playing these type teams on a regular basis.  Arkansas should have an RPI in the high 20's right now and be looking at a #4 or 5 seed, but as long as the NCAA uses the RPI system, and you schedule these type of games, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season long.  Arkansas is good enough to avoid doing this anymore.

I welcome your responses.

[chillinhoggie]

How many of those 200+ teams are SEC games?

[Tomhog™]

I agree that the people that schedule these games need to look for higher RPI teams.  This is hurting our seeding right now.  We need more in the 101-200 range.  PLUS, we need to play a couple of decent teams on the road.  This going the entire non-conference w/o a road game is not very smart...

[hogfancb]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/polls/rpi

[hogfan064]

How do their's differ from everyone else that has us at #46?

[HoggerNocker]

We have got to do a better job of scheduling from now on.  I understand the past few years have been difficult as we're trying to rebuild, but starting next year, we must schedule better non-conference opponents.  I'm not talking about UConn or Kansas, I'm talking about all the 200+ ranked teams that we have played, they are killing what would otherwise be a good Arkansas RPI.

Case in point:

St. Joesph's currently has an RPI of 45, two spots higher than the Hogs.  Their overall record is 14-12 and their opponents break down like this:

                   1-50       51-100     101-200     201+
                  --------------------------------------
ST. JOE         1-6          4-2           6-4         3-0
ARK               5-5          4-1           6-2         5-0

They look similar, with the exception being that Arkansas has played 3 more games against the top 50 and certainly has had more success.  It seems impossible for a 14-12 team with one win against the top 50 to be ranked ahead of a 20-8 team with 5 wins against the top 50.

The difference must be the 201+ games.  St. Joe's has played # (218), (253), and (286).   

Arkansas has played # (205), (249), (321), (324), and (330).  Oh yeah, we also played # (196) & (198).

We HAVE to stop playing these type teams on a regular basis.  Arkansas should have an RPI in the high 20's right now and be looking at a #4 or 5 seed, but as long as the NCAA uses the RPI system, and you schedule these type of games, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season long.  Arkansas is good enough to avoid doing this anymore.

I welcome your responses.

Where are you getting your RPI #s.  

[Apathy]

We have got to do a better job of scheduling from now on.  I understand the past few years have been difficult as we're trying to rebuild, but starting next year, we must schedule better non-conference opponents.  I'm not talking about UConn or Kansas, I'm talking about all the 200+ ranked teams that we have played, they are killing what would otherwise be a good Arkansas RPI.

Case in point:

St. Joesph's currently has an RPI of 45, two spots higher than the Hogs.  Their overall record is 14-12 and their opponents break down like this:

                   1-50       51-100     101-200     201+
                  --------------------------------------
ST. JOE         1-6          4-2           6-4         3-0
ARK               5-5          4-1           6-2         5-0

They look similar, with the exception being that Arkansas has played 3 more games against the top 50 and certainly has had more success.  It seems impossible for a 14-12 team with one win against the top 50 to be ranked ahead of a 20-8 team with 5 wins against the top 50.

The difference must be the 201+ games.  St. Joe's has played # (218), (253), and (286).   

Arkansas has played # (205), (249), (321), (324), and (330).  Oh yeah, we also played # (196) & (198).

We HAVE to stop playing these type teams on a regular basis.  Arkansas should have an RPI in the high 20's right now and be looking at a #4 or 5 seed, but as long as the NCAA uses the RPI system, and you schedule these type of games, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle all season long.  Arkansas is good enough to avoid doing this anymore.

I welcome your responses.

Where are you getting your RPI #s.  

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php


I understand there are several different RPI systems out there and they are all slightly different, however, I was just using this one for illustrative purposes.  I think you could probably find similar situations in all the RPI rankings.  We have to get these really bad teams off our schedule.

[dotnet]

I think your numbers might be a little off from the NCAA.  Either way, you make a really good point.  I think scheduling is huge.  I think if anything, it is the 300 games that kill us.  Our RPI would easily be in the 30's if you could substitute those +249's for 150's.

[Lokirain]

Last year, the cupcake schedule was bad, but this year with the Maui Tournament, I thought we did a good job scheduling, ecspecially considering we are going to the NCAA and we were unsure what kind of team we had at the outset of the season.

[hogfan064]

Fans want to see big games. I think we need to schedule a tough OOC schedule every year.  The weak teams we play should be local rivals like Missouri State, Tulsa, or Wichita State.  We shouldn't be playing teams like Prarie View

[hogfan1]

I really don't think it is our schedule.  If we had just beat Ms. St. and Ole Miss on the road this year, we would be 11-4 in conference, 22-6 overall, ranked in the top 25 and I'm sure our RPI would be just fine.  Just think, just those two wins and we are probably looking at a 5 or 6 seed. 

[The Rub]

This year's schedule was great.  You can't fault anyone for this year's schedule.  What you can blame is the "good" teams we did play having down years.  Of course, the Maui tourney was solid, but beyond that, we played Missouri and Texas Tech, which both happened to be in down years.  We also scheduled Missouri st, a solid team not very far who are close or make the NCAA-T every year. 

Any given year if you would tell me we would play UConn, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Texas Tech and Miss St., on top of the already tough SEC schedule, I would say that is a pretty darn good schedule.  It just so happens that those teams were bad this year.

[Munich swine]

I agree, those two losses are coming back to haunt us.  That said, I am still proud they have made it to the tourney this year.  WPS

[geoffhog]

I don't fault the non-nonconference this year. It wasn't overbearing, but it wasn't a cupcake schedule, either. I believe the RPI problems stem from the SEC being down and having a lower-than-normal RPI as a conference.

[HogInaStrangeLand]

Even the 'Down' SEC will still end up with 6 NCAA teams.

After last night Kentucky and us are both in the Tourny.

[hogfan064]

Even the 'Down' SEC will still end up with 6 NCAA teams.

After last night Kentucky and us are both in the Tourny.

We should both be in, but we still have to take care of business. If the Hogs lose 2 in a row we might drop out

[heathshogs]

I'm a fan of RPI's in general; but if those numbers are correct, formula's need to be revised.We have a better record against more top 50 teams. Equal wins and fewer losses against 51-100 and 101-200. Then just because we played 2 more 200+  teams and beat them we have a lower RPI. That's not logical. I don't think you can be penalized for beating a weak team vs playing no  one. Also I think teams get too much credit for getting beat by good teams. It's great to schedule tough non-conference opponents, but if you can't beat them your wasting time.

As for how our schedule was handled this year, the only thing we might have done different is get a non-conference opponent on the road. We played tough teams in Maui, but didn't have to face a hostile crowd until SEC play. Texas Tech almost fits that bill except that Razorback fans flock to Dallas as well as any school in Texas. And in the long run regardless of being pls a couple in teh RPI, I think the selection committee is much more likely to take a team with 20 wins tah n a team 2 games over .500.   

[ThunderHog]

I'm confused by which rpi service the NCAA uses.  Mike Greenfield's site has a section that says it is used by the selection committee.  They have Arkansas' RPI at 56 as of today and the strength of schedule at 97.

Which service does the NCAA use?

[heathshogs]

I believe they use their own, but several online sorces have figured out the formula. Or at least have enough imperical evidence to show they have.

[Biggus Piggus]

This is the official weekly RPI released by the NCAA:

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/rpi1.html

and it had us 46th after the Tennessee game.

This one:

http://www.kenpom.com/rpi.php

seems to be identical to the NCAA formula, and this one updates every day. 

It has us 47th after the Mississippi State game.

One thing to note: Arkansas is the only team in the top 50 with only two road wins.  This team really needs to bear down and win this last road game on Saturday.

[cmakrzrbak]

RPI isn't going to mean squat.  We've got 20+ wins and are guaranteed to finish above .500 in the SEC.  We are dancing and I hope we play one of those high RPI mid majors and kick the crap out of them.

[HoopS]

yep, nothing like winning a game at James Madison.  Much more impressive than beating Florida, Bama and Tennessee.   Love those ratings.

We have got to schedule some out of conference road games next year.  1.4 per win vs .6?  If im in charge, im on the phone with Fordham, St Bonnies and Boise State right now begging them to let us come to their place.  Seems that is more impressive than beating Kansas in Maui or TTech in Dallas.   Drop the nuetral games and the sisters of the poor.

[Apathy]

I don't fault the non-nonconference this year. It wasn't overbearing, but it wasn't a cupcake schedule, either. I believe the RPI problems stem from the SEC being down and having a lower-than-normal RPI as a conference.

This year's schedule was great.  You can't fault anyone for this year's schedule.  What you can blame is the "good" teams we did play having down years.  Of course, the Maui tourney was solid, but beyond that, we played Missouri and Texas Tech, which both happened to be in down years.  We also scheduled Missouri st, a solid team not very far who are close or make the NCAA-T every year. 

Any given year if you would tell me we would play UConn, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Texas Tech and Miss St., on top of the already tough SEC schedule, I would say that is a pretty darn good schedule.  It just so happens that those teams were bad this year.

My point has nothing to do with UConn, Kansas, or even Texas Tech and Missouri. Yes, TT and Mizzou had bad seasons and there's nothing we can do about it.

My point is that if you replaced Western Illinois, Texas State, and Texas Pan American with teams like Tennessee Tech, Charlotte, and Oral Roberts (Teams which Ark should also beat) and stay away from those 250+ teams, you will not have nearly as big a deficit to pull your RPI out of once conference play starts.

[Biggus Piggus]

Apathy, this has been a topic of frequent discussion here.  The sub-300 teams are the ones that really slaughter the RPI, because of their effect on average schedule strength (which is 50% of the RPI formula).  The closer a team gets to a zero winning percentage, its damage to RPI increases at an accelerating rate.

We played some teams with current records of 3-22, 6-23 and 7-20.  Take those out of our schedule without even replacing them with better wins and (according to my guesstimate) we're 10 positions higher in the RPI.

[Biggus Piggus]

I don't fault the non-nonconference this year. It wasn't overbearing, but it wasn't a cupcake schedule, either. I believe the RPI problems stem from the SEC being down and having a lower-than-normal RPI as a conference.

It WAS a cupcake schedule.  No road games, rates 221st in nonconference schedule strength.  We should never be 221st, but our nonleague schedule has been worse than 200th three years running.

[Biggus Piggus]

I'm a fan of RPI's in general; but if those numbers are correct, formula's need to be revised.

The formula is 25% win-loss record, 50% opponents' average schedule strength, 25% opponents' opponents' average schedule strength.  All the numbers are adjusted to count home wins less than road wins, home losses more than road losses.  A win or loss is not weighted at all by the strength of the opponent--that enters only in the schedule strength.  That being true, good wins are probably undervalued as are bad losses.

The way this is built--75% schedule strength--if you play anybody in the bottom quartile for overall schedule strength you're screwing yourself, and if you play anybody with the awful combination of lousy conference + single-digit wins, you're screwing yourself.  Arkansas plays these games to pile up home box office receipts, and it is a ** practice that hurts the basketball team in many ways.

Conferences that overpopulate the bottom of schedule strength:

SWAC
MEAC
Atlantic Sun
Mid-Continent
Southland
Ivy
Northeast
Big West
America East

If you know this stuff, it's insane to schedule the way the Hogs do.  The athletic administration appears to be unaware of how the RPI math works.

[nwarazfan]

The RPI is overrated.  Its just one tool the committee uses.  For mid majors, it gives them a chance to make an arguement that they should be included.  For a power conference school, its more important if you beat a team or teams of consequence in the non conf, how you finish in your conference(usually a min of .500 or just above)  and how you play down the stretch.  RPI may have some effect on seedings.  But as far as we are concerned, we could win one or two more and still have an RPI in the 40s yet be a 6 or 7 or even 8 seed which means the committee thinks we are one of the 21-32 best team in the tourney.  And UNC Wilmington may win out and have an RPI of 24 and end up a 10 seed. 

Our non conf schedule is not going to have that big of an impact. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Boston College, 35th in RPI, has five ACC road wins.  Just an example.

Georgetown has three Big East road wins plus nonleague road wins at UTEP and Oregon.  They have an easy one Saturday, will finish .500 in conference road games.

[Biggus Piggus]

Our non conf schedule is not going to have that big of an impact. 

That has not been true in past years.  No reason to schedule yourself a headwind when it's avoidable.

[nwarazfan]

Our non conf schedule is not going to have that big of an impact. 

That has not been true in past years.  No reason to schedule yourself a headwind when it's avoidable.

It will only come into play in the future if we end the SEC 8-8 or 9-7 with few impressive wins.  A tough non conf schedule would help our case then even if we pulled a Bama and 0'fered it. 

I agree we need to knock off a couple of more cupcakes and maybe schedule another road game besides Mizzou.  Title IX revenue draining dictates we have to have most games at home.  Cannot waste chances to sell 19,000 tickets.  Just a fact of today's big time college sports. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Missouri, similar financial condition as Arkansas, had a top-100 nonconference RPI playing

11 Illinois (neutral)
47 Arkansas (road)
68 Northwestern State (home)
109 Sam Houston State (home)
113 Davidson (road)
200 Furman (home)
203 Texas A&M-CC (home)
251 UMKC (home)
254 Louisiana-Monroe (home)
285 Oakland (home)
308 Eastern Illinois (home)

Our nonleague SOS rates below the top 220:

3 Connecticut (neutral)
18 Missouri State (home)
39 Kansas (neutral)
51 Maryland (neutral)
134 Texas Tech (neutral)
136 Missouri (home)
196 Portland State (home)
205 Rice (home)
249 Southern Miss (home)
321 Western Illinois (home)
324 Texas State (home)
330 Texas-Pan American (home)

[nwarazfan]

Missouri, similar financial condition as Arkansas, had a top-100 nonconference RPI playing

11 Illinois (neutral)
47 Arkansas (road)
68 Northwestern State (home)
109 Sam Houston State (home)
113 Davidson (road)
200 Furman (home)
203 Texas A&M-CC (home)
251 UMKC (home)
254 Louisiana-Monroe (home)
285 Oakland (home)
308 Eastern Illinois (home)

Our nonleague SOS rates below the top 220:

3 Connecticut (neutral)
18 Missouri State (home)
39 Kansas (neutral)
51 Maryland (neutral)
134 Texas Tech (neutral)
136 Missouri (home)
196 Portland State (home)
205 Rice (home)
249 Southern Miss (home)
321 Western Illinois (home)
324 Texas State (home)
330 Texas-Pan American (home)

Good for Mizzou.  Its not necessary for us to adjust our schedule that much.  Win in the SEC every year and we will be just fine.

[Biggus Piggus]

Since that's not going to happen, schedule strength matters.  We don't have to play three sub-300 RPI teams a year, or four as we did the season before.  We played just one in 2003-04 and none in 2002-03.  None in 2001-02.  One in 2000-01.  None in 1999-2000.  None in 1998-99.  Some of you craptards claim Nolan's schedules were weak.  Hope you don't defend Heath's.

[nwarazfan]

Since that's not going to happen, schedule strength matters.  We don't have to play three sub-300 RPI teams a year, or four as we did the season before.  We played just one in 2003-04 and none in 2002-03.  None in 2001-02.  One in 2000-01.  None in 1999-2000.  None in 1998-99.  Some of you craptards claim Nolan's schedules were weak.  Hope you don't defend Heath's.

What's not going to happen?  Winning in the SEC?