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The SEC West

Started by NaturalStateReb, September 14, 2014, 09:13:51 pm

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NaturalStateReb

Has 5 teams in the Top 10, and the other 2 teams got votes.

It's the toughest division not just this year, but in several years.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

razorJAcker

Toughest division ever?  Hard to say this early, but definitely could be.

We're supposedly the worst team in the division and just embarrassed a middle-tier Big 12 team on the road by 21.

 

bigdaddyhawg

No, no, no.  Haven't you heard?  The SEC is down this year.  Bwahahahahaha!
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Sweet Feet

And if arkansas can beat tamu, itl be all 7 division teams. Its truely a gauntlet

HogFanatic

It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

Stewhog 11

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

What does them playing each other have to do with them being included in the 25 best teams in the country?

jimmur74

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

Sure it does. If they are all top 25 teams of course they should be ranked

arkansasrazorback

Wish we were in the East.  I feel we would beat USC-e, Florida, Mizzou, Tenn, Kentucky, Vandy, with Georgia being a toss up

hawkhawg

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

How does it not make sense?  Your future schedule should play no role in the top 25. The top 25 should be the 25 best teams. 

Sweet Feet

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?
what u talkn bout? If the teams are good, then they are good

FootballFanatic89

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

You make zero logical sense actually. What is exactly your reasoning behind this though. I hope all 7 sec west teams are ranked.

rude1

Quote from: hawkhawg on September 21, 2014, 05:02:20 pm
How does it not make sense?  Your future schedule should play no role in the top 25. The top 25 should be the 25 best teams. 
^^This. The top 25 is based on what teams are doing currently when the poll is taken, not what you think might happen after they play one another. The only poll based on projection should be the preseason polls.

KennyForAD

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

Are you being facetious?   


 

KennyForAD

Quote from: Stewhog 11 on September 21, 2014, 04:20:41 pm
What does them playing each other have to do with them being included in the 25 best teams in the country?

A lot of poll voters try to guess how the season will play out and vote accordingly - thinking it will make them look smart at the end of the season.   

I BLEED RBack RED

Quote from: arkansasrazorback on September 21, 2014, 04:52:16 pm
Wish we were in the East.  I feel we would beat USC-e, Florida, Mizzou, Tenn, Kentucky, Vandy, with Georgia being a toss up
DON'T...ever....say that!...lol
The 3 things I can't live without are family, my razorbacks, and beer (not in any particular order).

kaptainkory

SEC West is currently 24 and 2.  Oh, and BTW, those 2 loses?...to other SEC West teams.

JayBell

Quote from: arkansasrazorback on September 21, 2014, 04:52:16 pmWish we were in the East.  I feel we would beat USC-e, Florida, Mizzou, Tenn, Kentucky, Vandy, with Georgia being a toss up

There's not a team in the West that wouldn't at least have a chance to win the East.  And there's not a team in the East that would have a snowball's chance in hell at winning the West.

And it is going to be that way as long as the SEC big wigs keep holding on to hope that Florida, Georgia and/or Tennessee will get their act together and return to their glory days.  The quality on the field of Arkansas, Mississippi State and Ole Miss is ignored for the history and revenue of those three East teams.

I've been saying it since before A&M and Mizzou were added, this conference is going to be constantly out of balance until they move Alabama and Auburn to the East.  It's ridiculous that they haven't done it yet.

ballz2thewall

from a hog opponent perspective

bama - i just don't see NC in this team right now.  to me they look like bama always looks, without that sure thing feel.

auburn - played them and lost.

lsu - young and milesy.  hogs can win that one.  the offense showed lack of color last night.  and the defense looked very vulnerable to the gut punch.

ole miss - dangerous team at times.  to me, and i think to everyone i read, it depends on bo.

state - solid team.  i'm not sure why people thought they'd be not-so-good [several have posted this].  many others thought they'd be tough if not potentially very good.  dangerous team.  beatable and depth is an issue, but tough.

a&m - very solid team.  for some reason the timing seems right to play them. yesterdays game against smu doesn't count. whacking scar away from home damn sure does.  seems like ball control will be a needed factor here, along with some sure catches on 3d and long.

ga - very solid team. to me they look as good as bama.

mizzou - beatable.  good team but had trouble with the run yesterday.

i'll stop right here.

guys?

The rest of the frog.

jlhogfan

I hate Bama the most,  but, why does everyone think they are having a "off" year?

ballz2thewall

Quote from: jlhogfan on September 21, 2014, 08:35:29 pm
I hate Bama the most,  but, why does everyone think they are having a "off" year?

for me, its because saban is trying to get the ball in the air a bit more.  with Kiffin, he's trying to bring in more to the passing game than just reliable play action.  in my opinion he's adjusting a bit to the players he has and will have down the line.

and, if you watch them, the aren't clicking like bama usually does.  aside from Kiffin, their defense isn't smothering like usual, at least that's my take on it. 

and i could be bad wrong.
The rest of the frog.

jlhogfan

Quote from: ballz2thewall on September 21, 2014, 08:41:53 pm
for me, its because saban is trying to get the ball in the air a bit more.  with Kiffin, he's trying to bring in more to the passing game than just reliable play action.  in my opinion he's adjusting a bit to the players he has and will have down the line.

and, if you watch them, the aren't clicking like bama usually does.  aside from Kiffin, their defense isn't smothering like usual, at least that's my take on it. 

and i could be bad wrong.

Fair enough, but what I saw was typical Bama.  Had a couple of costly turnovers, recovered, then proceeded to smack Florida around. 

Birminghog

Quote from: JayBell on September 21, 2014, 08:27:08 pm
... this conference is going to be constantly out of balance until they move Alabama and Auburn to the East.

Not
Gonna
Happen

swinesation

Has a conference division ever had every team in the TOP 25? That would be historic!

GlassofSwine

I rate the West something like this:

  Alabama
  Auburn
  Ole Miss
  TAMU
  Miss State
  LSU
  Arkansas

Because of very few in conference games my TOP 4 on my list are bound to change. TAMU's win at USCe was impressive but USCe has been so inconsistent and the rest of TAMU's competition so bad I don't know what to think yet.

  I would like to move Arkansas up but I won't until they win some SEC games. I think if Arkansas was in the East we would be a real threat to make some noise I think we would be looking at a 8-4 mark as a solid possibility if we were in the East.

 

shotgun7

Quote from: Birminghog on September 21, 2014, 09:14:49 pm
Not
Gonna
Happen
The only way I could see it happening is if they add 2 more teams, and they are from the west. Such as a couple more big 12 teams Like OU/OK St.

BRHogfan

Quote from: JayBell on September 21, 2014, 08:27:08 pm
this conference is going to be constantly out of balance until they move Alabama and Auburn to the East.  It's ridiculous that they haven't done it yet.

This conference used to be way better in the East.  It's not always going to be constantly out of balance, it just happens to shake that way now. 

Pickwick Hog

Quote from: hawkhawg on September 21, 2014, 05:02:20 pm
How does it not make sense?  Your future schedule should play no role in the top 25. The top 25 should be the 25 best teams.

That's what these guys are saying. #18.

http://cfn.scout.com/a.z?s=451&p=2&c=557948
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Jackrabbit Hog

Right now there is a very supportable argument to be made that all 7 teams in the West are better than all 7 teams in the East.
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Ben

Quote from: BRHogfan on September 22, 2014, 08:37:16 am
This conference used to be way better in the East.  It's not always going to be constantly out of balance, it just happens to shake that way now.
truth. Florida and georgia were the hot teams from 2006-2008.
Late 90s, early 2000s tennessee ran the show along with uga and florida every now and then.
Then 2003-2005 it was aub and lsu.
2009-present however, its been the bama schools alone, along with arkansas' 2 years as a top 5 team and the addition of tamu.
Quote from: BearsBisonsBoars on January 18, 2016, 11:06:54 pm. The four team playoff is still opinion. Or do you really think MSU was really the fourth best team in CFB?
You miss the boat.  A four team playoff is a championship.  A championship produces... a champion. You seem to be looking for the "best" team.  The "best" doesn't exist. Best does not equal champion.  Best is a myth.
Opinion polls produce... opinions.

Ben

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on September 22, 2014, 09:03:01 am
Right now there is a very supportable argument to be made that all 7 teams in the West are better than all 7 teams in the East.
even arkansas and miss st against uga?
Quote from: BearsBisonsBoars on January 18, 2016, 11:06:54 pm. The four team playoff is still opinion. Or do you really think MSU was really the fourth best team in CFB?
You miss the boat.  A four team playoff is a championship.  A championship produces... a champion. You seem to be looking for the "best" team.  The "best" doesn't exist. Best does not equal champion.  Best is a myth.
Opinion polls produce... opinions.

The_Iceman

I think Arkansas would finish Top 3-4 in any other conference in the country. They would also probably finish Top 2-3 in the SEC East.

However, they will be lucky to finish Top 5 in the SEC West.

HogFansReunited

The SEC West is still undefeated vs all opponents from outside the division as well.
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Member #3568

JayBell


JayBell

Quote from: Ben on September 22, 2014, 10:59:43 am
truth. Florida and georgia were the hot teams from 2006-2008.
Late 90s, early 2000s tennessee ran the show along with uga and florida every now and then.
Then 2003-2005 it was aub and lsu.
2009-present however, its been the bama schools alone, along with arkansas' 2 years as a top 5 team and the addition of tamu.

Everything is cyclical.  It won't always be this way.  The thing with modern college football is the amount of money that is pumped into programs.  It is very hard to fall off the way Tennessee and Florida have.  Programs have to be run really, really poorly for that kind of fall to happen.

But Alabama, Auburn, LSU and A&M are getting top 5 recruiting classes every year.  Arkansas and Mississippi State are getting brand new facilities.  Coaches leave championship programs in other conferences to coach in the SEC West.  Eventually, the SEC West won't be the death march it is right now, but modern sports economics makes cycles last a lot longer than they used to.  So how long is this cycle going to last, another decade or more?  You could easily make a change based on something that is likely to last that long.

The thing with moving Alabama and Auburn is it has the added bonus of making geographical sense.  Missouri and Vanderbilt in the East is more of a joke, geographically, than Alabama and Auburn being in the West, competitively.

GoHogs1091

Ole Miss is ranked too high.  They have a decent Defense, but Bo Wallace is going to end up costing them some games this season.

Our 2 best chances to win SEC games this season will be our home game with Ole Miss, and on the road at Missouri.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: JayBell on September 22, 2014, 11:35:45 am
Everything is cyclical.  It won't always be this way.  The thing with modern college football is the amount of money that is pumped into programs. It is very hard to fall off the way Tennessee and Florida have.  Programs have to be run really, really poorly for that kind of fall to happen.

But Alabama, Auburn, LSU and A&M are getting top 5 recruiting classes every year.  Arkansas and Mississippi State are getting brand new facilities.  Coaches leave championship programs in other conferences to coach in the SEC West.  Eventually, the SEC West won't be the death march it is right now, but modern sports economics makes cycles last a lot longer than they used to.  So how long is this cycle going to last, another decade or more?  You could easily make a change based on something that is likely to last that long.

The thing with moving Alabama and Auburn is it has the added bonus of making geographical sense.  Missouri and Vanderbilt in the East is more of a joke, geographically, than Alabama and Auburn being in the West, competitively.

Good post, and you are right in the bold, but with a caveat.

It takes one, just one, bad HC hire and your program can fall quickly in the SEC.  That's what has happened at UF.  Muschamp may eventually get things righted (I have my doubts) but he was not the man they should have hired for that job, and they have suffered for it.

IMO the single hardest job in all of CFB is the job an SEC AD has when he has to replace a HC.  That decision has to be 99% on target or there's a terrible penalty to be paid.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

JayBell

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on September 22, 2014, 11:41:26 amGood post, and you are right in the bold, but with a caveat.

It takes one, just one, bad HC hire and your program can fall quickly in the SEC.  That's what has happened at UF.  Muschamp may eventually get things righted (I have my doubts) but he was not the man they should have hired for that job, and they have suffered for it.

IMO the single hardest job in all of CFB is the job an SEC AD has when he has to replace a HC.  That decision has to be 99% on target or there's a terrible penalty to be paid.

Very good points.

And that's another reason why nothing will change any time soon in the SEC West.  These coaches are long term guys.  Saban, Malzahn, Bielema, Freeze and Sumlin aren't going anywhere any time soon.  Miles (simply because of bizarre fan expectations) and Mullen are the only ones who could be out in the next few years.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: JayBell on September 22, 2014, 11:48:15 am
Very good points.

And that's another reason why nothing will change any time soon in the SEC West.  These coaches are long term guys.  Saban, Malzahn, Bielema, Freeze and Sumlin aren't going anywhere any time soon.  Miles (simply because of bizarre fan expectations) and Mullen are the only ones who could be out in the next few years.

Mullen may have turned the corner, and if he did, good for him and MSU.  It certainly would be a testimony to an AD staying patient and letting the program develop stability.

I think Sumlin could be the exception on that list.  I have no idea if this is the case or not, but if he continues to have the kind of success he's been having, he'll have to make a decision re: the NFL, because they will definitely come calling.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Aggie96

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

Yeah I have to say this makes no sense at all. I am still under the impression that if you lose to a team ranked higher than you, that should not be a mark against you. I mean really? A number 18 losing to a number 6? You should have lost that game. Always been a bur under my saddle. College Basketball has this down pat. They look at the team and how they play, not just if they win or lose. The playoff guys are supposed to take this in account for their votes as well. We shall see.
You can eat the Apple but don't Eff with the Corps!!! GIG 'EM!!!

Calling All Hogs

SEC West is the only conference where someone has to upset a top 25 team just to get a conference win.

Jackrabbit Hog

Quote from: Ben on September 22, 2014, 11:01:28 am
even arkansas and miss st against uga?

I guess we'll find out in a little less than 3 weeks.
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

wholehog92

This division is ridiculous right now.

We have Georgia and Mizzy.
AU has USCe and Georgia.
LSU has FL.
A&M has Mizzy. 

Those are the only competitive games outside the division remaining.  I think the west team will be favored in all of those except the GA game vs us.  It would be historical if the division remained undefeated all year vs outside competition.
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NaturalStateReb

Quote from: JayBell on September 21, 2014, 08:27:08 pm
There's not a team in the West that wouldn't at least have a chance to win the East.  And there's not a team in the East that would have a snowball's chance in hell at winning the West.

And it is going to be that way as long as the SEC big wigs keep holding on to hope that Florida, Georgia and/or Tennessee will get their act together and return to their glory days.  The quality on the field of Arkansas, Mississippi State and Ole Miss is ignored for the history and revenue of those three East teams.

I've been saying it since before A&M and Mizzou were added, this conference is going to be constantly out of balance until they move Alabama and Auburn to the East.  It's ridiculous that they haven't done it yet.

I don't know that's good for the remaining West teams to have nearly all of the original ten SEC members in the East.  It would solve a lot of problems, though.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

HogFansReunited

Quote from: wholehog92 on September 22, 2014, 12:29:55 pm
This division is ridiculous right now.

We have Georgia and Mizzy.
AU has USCe and Georgia.
LSU has FL.
A&M has Mizzy. 

Those are the only competitive games outside the division remaining.  I think the west team will be favored in all of those except the GA game vs us.  It would be historical if the division remained undefeated all year vs outside competition.

That would be amazing to see.  Would leave no doubt which division is the best in the country. (As if people don't already know anyway.)
My girl told me to whisper something sexy in her ear...so I leaned in and said....Dominic Fletcher.

Quote from: WorfHog on April 05, 2019, 11:26:00 pm
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Member #3568

Ben

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 22, 2014, 11:07:42 am
I think Arkansas would finish Top 3-4 in any other conference in the country. They would also probably finish Top 2-3 in the SEC East.

However, they will be lucky to finish Top 5 in the SEC West.
pac-12 im not sure. Big 12 maybe. Those schools have the offensive firepower to pick arkansas' defense apart, but the pac-12 has athleticism on defense to hang with arkansas' offense. Ur right about the others though
Quote from: BearsBisonsBoars on January 18, 2016, 11:06:54 pm. The four team playoff is still opinion. Or do you really think MSU was really the fourth best team in CFB?
You miss the boat.  A four team playoff is a championship.  A championship produces... a champion. You seem to be looking for the "best" team.  The "best" doesn't exist. Best does not equal champion.  Best is a myth.
Opinion polls produce... opinions.

Ben

Quote from: JayBell on September 22, 2014, 11:35:45 am
Everything is cyclical.  It won't always be this way.  The thing with modern college football is the amount of money that is pumped into programs.  It is very hard to fall off the way Tennessee and Florida have.  Programs have to be run really, really poorly for that kind of fall to happen.

But Alabama, Auburn, LSU and A&M are getting top 5 recruiting classes every year.  Arkansas and Mississippi State are getting brand new facilities.  Coaches leave championship programs in other conferences to coach in the SEC West.  Eventually, the SEC West won't be the death march it is right now, but modern sports economics makes cycles last a lot longer than they used to.  So how long is this cycle going to last, another decade or more?  You could easily make a change based on something that is likely to last that long.

The thing with moving Alabama and Auburn is it has the added bonus of making geographical sense.  Missouri and Vanderbilt in the East is more of a joke, geographically, than Alabama and Auburn being in the West, competitively.
+1
You are so right. However, wouldn you say tennessee and floridas dropoff is due to coaching?
Quote from: BearsBisonsBoars on January 18, 2016, 11:06:54 pm. The four team playoff is still opinion. Or do you really think MSU was really the fourth best team in CFB?
You miss the boat.  A four team playoff is a championship.  A championship produces... a champion. You seem to be looking for the "best" team.  The "best" doesn't exist. Best does not equal champion.  Best is a myth.
Opinion polls produce... opinions.

JayBell

Quote from: Ben on September 22, 2014, 01:44:00 pm+1
You are so right. However, wouldn you say tennessee and floridas dropoff is due to coaching?

Tennessee has had, what, three coaches since Fulmer?  They continue to crank out NFL players and yet, as a program, is still lagging behind.  Those fans forced Fulmer out too.  So coaching has obviously been an issue, but there's some other factors at play.

With Florida, it's definitely about coaching.  How anyone can consistently lose at Florida is amazing.  The state churns out far more talent than Tennessee.

JayBell

Even if Florida gets straightened out, that's still only one team in the East that could really challenge the West.  Everything is cyclical, but since 1999, the West has won 10 out of 15 SEC Championship games, including the last five and six of the last seven.

Is there even an inkling that the current dynamic will change any time soon?  Any new coach at Florida or Tennessee would need at least 2-3 years.  We may have seen South Carolina and Georgia peak already.  Then you have Vanderbilt, Kentucky and Missouri all on one side of the conference.  It's ridiculous.

jbcarol

SEC Football by the Numbers: Week 4 Recap -- West is best

Quote0 Losses for the seven SEC West teams against non-SEC West teams this season. The seven teams have a combined 22-2 record with the losses coming in intradivision games - Arkansas' loss to Auburn and LSU's loss to Mississippi State. The average score of the 22 victories is 46-12. The SEC East is 0-3 against the SEC West and has three non-conference losses this season.
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

NoNC4Tubs

Quote from: Ashley Schaeffer on September 21, 2014, 04:15:45 pm
It also makes ZERO logical sense.
Do these pollsters not realize that all of those teams have to play one another?

I was thinking the same thing........  8)