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Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?

Started by WizardofhOgZ, May 05, 2012, 04:03:44 pm

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NaturalStateReb

Quote from: Adam Stokes on December 15, 2012, 01:03:50 pm
If conferences are really all about making more money, can someone explain to me why anyone cares in the least when it comes to academics?

Because raising the SEC's academic profile is going to make the conference more attractive to certain ACC schools in the next round of expansion.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

online-with-swine

Quote from: psooie on December 19, 2012, 09:16:51 am
Unless the ncaa changes the rules, there can't be pods. To have a championship game you must play all school's in your division. If the sec went to 16, that would mean playing 7 division games and 1 or 2 from the other division. Most likely two with one permanent and one rotated to keep some rival games. SO it would be a long time to go through the other division. I don't know why leagues think getting bigger is such  a good idea. Reminds me of this phrase:

And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul?

Actually there is a way to get around the division/pod issue.

1.  There is no NCAA regulation preventing a conference from changing the makeup of the divisions bi-yearly.  So, the SEC can simply have 2 divisions with a change in the teams in each division every 2 years.

2.  Pods can exist without calling them "pods".  There is no reason we can't have 4 teams who are each others permanent rivals and then rotate out their non-permanent rivals each year so they all essentially play the same teams.  After 2 years switch their non-permanent rivals along with the divisions. 

Either of these is the same concept as pods but we simply don't call them pods and we keep the framework and names of divisions.

 

Murr

http://www.mrsec.com/2012/12/big-bang-theories-the-countdown-to-super-conferences-part-2/#more-260607

Mr. SEC looks at his top 25 expansion candidates, their TV households, brand, AAU status and research spending to start to form an educated guess as to where these schools could land.

QuoteClemson
Cable Households in South Carolina:  996,950
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#99)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  It's been rumored for more than a year now that CU has been in contact with the Big XII, but to date nothing's come of the internet chatter.  If the Big Ten decides to look further south, it won't be for Clemson.  As for the SEC, at what point must a league protect its own region?  Expansion is about gobbling up new cable households and new land, but would the SEC at some point feel better served to just grab a school within its existing footprint in order to keep other league's out?  We don't believe so.  If the Big XII, for example, were to grab Clemson it would add to that conference's bottom line, but it likely wouldn't hurt the SEC one iota.  The Southeastern Conference already has the state university in the Palmetto State.  The SEC's goal should be to grow its own wealth, regardless of what the competition does.  Thereofore, we believe it's Big XII or ACC for Clemson moving forward.

Duke
Cable Households in North Carolina:  2,084,400
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#7)
AAU Member Institution:  Yes
Summary:  The name brand turns television dials in basketball, but not football.  Still that name is so powerful in basketball that leagues might overlook the Blue Devils' gridiron shortcomings.  Whoever lands Duke will be adding one of the nation's premier universities.  If the ACC begins to crumble, Duke and North Carolina will likely move together.  Their options appear to be twofold according to folks we've spoken to — either Big Ten or SEC.  An ACC source recently told a national publication that the SEC has been wooing those two schools for years.  Our SEC sources all seem to believe that the Big Ten is eager to land the Blue Devils and Tarheels, too.  These are two of the crown jewels in the super-conference race.  If the ACC survives, they stay put.  If not, Duke and UNC will have to choose between either academic reputation (Big Ten) or natural rivalries and travel costs (SEC).  Cash-wise, the SEC and Big Ten are probably going to rank 1-2 among conferences long-term, so there likely won't be much edge one way or the other on that front.

Florida State
Cable Households in Florida:  5,186,900
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#93)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  FSU is a major national brand.  Put Florida State on television against almost anyone and you'll draw some viewers.  The 'Noles are also one of just two schools in the Sunshine State that can allow a conference to claim ownership of the state's five million cable households.  The SEC made an unofficial offer to Florida State back in the early '90s, but the Seminoles chose to jump to the ACC instead.  (Obviously, not a wise move.)  With television dollars the most important aspect of expansion these days, would the SEC's presidents believe FSU could put money in their pockets?  Would Florida be willing to allow an arch-rival to catch up financially via entry into the Gators' own conference?  The game has changed in 20 years and we think it's doubtful that the SEC — unless it gets very, very defensive — would extend an offer to the Seminoles.  Like Clemson, it appears that Florida State will either stay in the ACC or head to the Big XII (should Bob Bowlsby's conference decide to expand).  FSU's lack of AAU cred would most likely scuttle any chance of a Big Ten marriage.

Georgia Tech
Cable Households in Georgia:  2,025,600
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#26)
AAU Member Institution:  Yes
Summary:  An old member of the Southeastern Conference, Tech has everything a league not named the SEC would look for — AAU membership, a great academic reputation, a location in one of the nation's true talent hotbeds.  But like Clemson and Florida State, the only way Tech could grab an invite from the conference it once left would be for said conference to go on the defensive.  And that's not the SEC's style.  It's been rumored that Tech has had discussions in some form or fashion with the Big XII.  School officials have denied that.  We at MrSEC.com have been told by numerous sources inside the SEC and on the business side of college athletics that Tech and the Big Ten have been communicating and that Tech is preparing for a leap in that direction (depending on the exit fees Maryland will have to pay to the ACC office).  Tech officials will deny this, too.  We won't believe them.  If the Big Ten expands further, expect Tech to join Maryland and another southern school on Jim Delany's target list.

Miami (FL)
Cable Households in Florida:  5,186,900
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#76)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  Miami is a national brand.  In fact, it's probably more of a national football brand than it is a local brand.  Flip on a Hurricane football game and more often than not you're going to see a whole lot of empty seats.  That's why we believe Florida and Florida State are really the only schools that would allow a conference to claim the Sunshine State's more than five million cable households.  To gain entry into a super-conference, Miami will also have to overcome its reputation for cheating and skullduggery.  The U's academic reputation is strong, but we still believe Cane fans should be hoping that either a) the ACC survives or b) the Big XII decides to expand in a big way by grabbing both Florida State and Miami.  We just finished talking about Memphis... if it came down to it, would the Big XII grab the Hurricanes or the Tigers.  Yeah, we think Miami, too.  ACC or super-Big XII seem to be the most realistic options.

North Carolina
Cable Households in North Carolina:  2,084,400
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#17)
AAU Member Institution:  Yes
Summary:  See Duke's summary, though Carolina plays better football.

North Carolina State
Cable Households in North Carolina:  2,084,400
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#44)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  NCSU is the third wheel in terms of expansion into the state of North Carolina.  UNC and Duke are the top options.  Should those two land in one conference, it's possible that State could serve as a fallback for the other league.  NC State boasts solid academics — though not the AAU membership that Big Ten presidents crave — and the school would offer the Raleigh television market as well as some claim on the state's two million cable households.  Still, State should be hoping for ACC survival or a Research Triangle power play that would land UNC, Duke and NCSU in one league, be it the SEC or the Big Ten.

Notre Dame
Cable Households in Indiana:  1,362,930
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  No
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  This is probably the only non-AAU school that the Big Ten would chase (hoping that it could help the Irish grab an invite from that esteemed grouping).  Notre Dame recently announced a partnership with the ACC for all sports but football, though it will schedule five ACC teams per year while maintaining its independence.  But the Big East's rapid crumble will force Notre Dame to move its non-football sports quicker than it would have liked.  Will the ACC welcome the Irish ahead of schedule?  Will it use Notre Dame's all-sports worries as leverage to force Brian Kelly's program into the league on a full-scale basis?  Will the Big XII rush in and woo the Irish with an immediate welcome sans football?  Everything is on the table when it comes to the top national brand in collegiate football.

Pittsburgh
Cable Households in Pennsylvania:  3,473,150
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#20)
AAU Member Institution:  Yes
Summary:  Pittburgh is a good fit for the ACC if that league survives.  Pitt would be a great fit for the Big Ten, if Penn State wouldn't put up a squawk.  Already boasting West Virginia, the Big XII would have to be considered a potential landing spot for the Panthers as well.  And don't cross off the SEC just yet either.  If the league had opened its doors to WVU its teams would already have to travel through the Pittsburgh airport en route to Morgantown.  Getting an SEC Network on Pennsylvania cable systems would be a plus at the bank and on the recruiting trail.  The school's academic rep would also please SEC presidents.  The problem is the "fit."  Aside from Vanderbilt, not one other league school is based in large city featuring competition from professional athletics.  SEC passion has grown in part thanks to the fact that before 1960, the only game in the South was college ball.  Pitt doesn't fit that mold.  But just look those cable households and there are only two big programs in the Keystone State.

Virginia
Cable Households in Virginia:  1,903,900
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#72)
AAU Member Institution:  Yes
Summary:  The next Maryland.  At least that's what a lot of people connected to the world of college athletics have told us.  Virginia has everything that the Big Ten could possibly desire.  Reportedly, the two parties have already had conversations — and from what we've been told — UVA and Georgia Tech could be the next "surprise" move by the Big Ten.  The SEC would probably have an interest in Virginia as well, but a marriage between those two parties would seem to be unlikely at this point.  Of course, there's always the possibility of the ACC somehow holding itself together.

Virginia Tech
Cable Households in Virginia:  1,903,900
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#41)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  For the past few years there's been talk of Virginia Tech possibly heading to the SEC, though school officials have shot that chatter down on many occasions.  Last summer, rumors spread that Tech might look to the Big XII along with Georgia Tech, Florida State and Clemson, but nothing came of those whispers.  According to a source with a major equipment supplier, at least one ACC baseball coach believes Virginia and Virginia Tech are angling together for a move to the Big Ten.  Tech doesn't have an AAU membership card, but with its research budget, Big Ten presidents might feel they could sneak the Hokies into the club.  For decades, VPI fought to gain entrance into the ACC.  We believe it will take an ACC collapse to drive them from the home they've enjoyed for a little less than a decade.

hawaiianhogster

Quote from: brewster37 on December 18, 2012, 10:48:04 pm
The things I'm hearing from local sports talk that the ACC teams  remains strong and committed to the league. Trust me I wish North Carolina  would jump so I can see more Hog games (living in Fayetteville NC) maybe SEC network will come.

They say this just before they jump ship.

Psharp

The ACC will remain intact indefinitely. In 2014, the conference will have 14 schools; ND comes aboard in 2015 for all sports full time except football (5 conf. games). The addition of one more university would fill out a 16 team conf. Maybe that final school could be Vanderbilt.

Murr

Quote from: Psharp on December 20, 2012, 10:46:19 pm
The ACC will remain intact indefinitely. In 2014, the conference will have 14 schools; ND comes aboard in 2015 for all sports full time except football (5 conf. games). The addition of one more university would fill out a 16 team conf. Maybe that final school could be Vanderbilt.

So you are saying Vanderbilt, a founding member of the SEC, is going to join a conference that will pay half of what the SEC will pay, athletically, and doesn't increase the research funding much if at all, unlike the Big Ten's CIC.

In a ten year period, Georgia Tech could make $200M dollars more playing in the Big Ten instead of the ACC; $150M more if the $50M exit fee some how holds up in any court.

The ACC is the new big east to the Big 4.  Take off your football helmet and basketball shorts and Put on your graduation cap, follow the money.  In an era in which government spending is cut and schools must find ways to balance the books without passing the buck to the state or the student, I find it hard to believe that there would be too much resistance to a change of conferences that would double your athletic tv contracts and significantly increase your AAU research budget.

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: Psharp on December 20, 2012, 10:46:19 pm
The ACC will remain intact indefinitely. In 2014, the conference will have 14 schools; ND comes aboard in 2015 for all sports full time except football (5 conf. games). The addition of one more university would fill out a 16 team conf. Maybe that final school could be Vanderbilt.

Or maybe the final school could be a talking unicorn.  It's at least as likely as Vanderbilt leaving the SEC to join the leaking johnboat full of Big East survivors that is the new ACC.

I don't know if the ACC is going to keep it's current form or not, but I believe that it all hinges on Maryland's exit fee.  If Maryland gets out with a major reduction in its exit fees (fee < $25M), then I think it'll be Katy bar the door.  If that happens, then one of the remaining teams is going to jump for the money and stability and the dominoes will start to fall.

If that happens, the ACC will survive but it'll basically be the old members of the Big East getting the band back together along with Wake Forest and maybe Duke.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Murr

Here is a quick round of up stuff being mentioned lately

From @thedudeofwv from today:
QuoteAs it stands right now the B1G is close to offering UVA & GT shortly after the BCS championship game.

As of today it looks like UVA & GT to the B1G. FSU & VT to the Big 12 & UNC & Duke to the SEC.

That's the first round. I expect the Big 12 to also add Clemson and Miami.


Mr. SEC released his third installment of his "Big Bang" series; today he looks at rumors and possible target combinations that each conference might be considering or is available.

http://www.mrsec.com/2012/12/big-bang-theories-the-countdown-to-super-conferences-part-3/#more-265873

For the SEC, he says the current options appear to be:
1.    Duke and UNC combo
2.   Virginia Tech would be a good fit
3.   Bring in the entire Research Triangle (UNC, Duke and NC State) and round off with Virginia Tech
4.   Add within footprint (only if being defensive or TV is paying for it)

In option 3 (Research Triangle with VT), that would be the easiest way to counter the B1G's offer to UNC and Duke about having several familiar members (Maryland, Virginia, Georgia Tech).  I could see this as being an option that the SEC might take, from a programing standpoint in basketball and in academics and research funding,  but the question is scheduling 18 just as much a problem as scheduling for 14?


And @MHver3 gives us a different view of things(tweets start as far back as 17 Dec 12):
QuoteMy main source in WVU AD sticking with Uconn and Cincy to ACC, FSU and Miami to B12

Cincy and Uconn both assured an ACC invite and are fully expecting to be in the ACC by 2014

And the juiciest one: ND tells Delaney they will not join a FB conference until it is mandatory for playoffs. Buckle up

candyCANES and NOeL(E)S are what FOX wants for Christmas

BYU talking to B12 news leaking actually makes my source think they are considering the Artists Formerly Known as the Bigeast

BYU to rejoin MWC with BSU, SMU, SDSU, Houston, and USF, UCF??? My head is spinning. Btw, told you the MWC was trying to rework tv deal...

Oddly, Cincy and Uconn have both turned down the offer to join the revamped MWC...hmmm. Maybe they know something their not telling...

B10 showing signs of taking 4 more now. UVA and GT as we have discussed and possibly stealing UNC and Duke from Slives wish list.

VT was contacted by SEC to let them know they are back in their sights now. Unsure if NCST has been contacted again but I'd bet yes

B12 stands to make out the best from a quality standpoint with CU FSU Miami and pick one

MWC willing to go as high as 20 members. Wants alot of eastern teams. CBS deal could be up to 5 times higher per team than current

Orange Bowl contract is done. ND keeps it even if they leave/ don't join ACC


In related news the Big10 inched ever closer to resolution on who and how many schools to invite this time around. UVA and GT remain on deck

UVA remains adamant that they will not even discuss it in BOT meeting until Md lawsuit is resolved.

GT also must tread carefully to avoid interfering or tampering.



SEC Commissioner Mike Slive gave an interview about conference realignment to USA Today that appeared in Friday's print, I believe:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2012/12/21/southeastern-conference-mike-slive-realignment/1782917/

Quote[SEC Com. Mike Slive:] When the question gets asked about super conferences, the sense I get is it's not asked about the quality of the conference, it's about a number (of members). For us it's not about numbers. It's about the quality of the conference and the institutions. From my observation, is there a concerted effort among conferences to get to a (certain) number? I don't think so. I can't speak for individual conferences, but to me, I don't have any sense that there's this master plan that governs the athletic universe that's marching toward getting conferences with 16 teams. We're all very different, we're all very competitive, we all have different cultures.

Hawghiggs

 I wouldn't mind adding Cincinnati to the east. If you don't know much about them take a look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cincinnati and then their is the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati  This would give the SEC a foothold into one of the larger northern states and would also get the SEC a powerful basketball program.

NaturalStateReb

I don't think Slive is looking to get to 16.  I think the magic number is actually 18.  Here's my logic:

If it expands, the SEC is looking to gain one thing and avoid another:  namely, it wants to expand the geographic footprint while avoiding the scheduling nightmare that the move to 14 teams has generated. 

Going to 16 teams may help the SEC add territory, but it doesn't help with the scheduling problem.  If the conference has two, 8-team divisions, it's going to mean 9-game schedules in order to maintain rivalries, which the SEC has shown that it's adamant it will maintain.  Moving Alabama and Auburn to the east looks good on paper, but it would make the East a murderer's row in football and put too much of the league's old school politics on one side of the conference.  It's a bad idea all the way around, and everyone knows it.  Going to 4 team pods is complicated and too disruptive for a conference that values tradition as much as the SEC does.

Going to 18 teams, though, solves both problems.  Let's say that the SEC exercised Option #3 of those listed by Murr above by adding UNC, NC State, Duke, and VT.  The SEC could then go to 3, 6-team divisions:

SEC West
Missouri
Arkansas
Texas A&M
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC Central
Kentucky
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Alabama
Auburn
Georgia

SEC East
Virginia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Duke
South Carolina
Florida

In this arrangement, the SEC could actually go back to its previous scheduling rubric of 5+2+1:  five opponents from your division, 2 from the other division(s), and 1 permanent rival (in order to maintain the UGA/FL game).  This arrangment has the added advantage of getting rid of all of the rivalry problems except the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party.  With Auburn, Alabama, and Tennessee all together, no more problems there.  UGA and Auburn would play every year.  So would Ole Miss/State, Arkansas/LSU, A&M/LSU, Tennessee/Vandy, Tennessee/Kentucky, and LSU/Ole Miss.  All of the traditional rivalries would be protected and Mizzou could return to the more geographically sensible West. 

The SEC could maintain the maximum number of current "rivalry games" for scheduling purposes and add a couple more that would be interesting.  One possible arrangement could be:

Georgia/Florida
Mizzou/Kentucky
Texas A&M/South Carolina
Duke/Vanderbilt
LSU/Alabama
North Carolina/Tennessee
Mississippi State/NC State
Arkansas/Virginia Tech
Auburn/Ole Miss

It'd be a blockbuster move financially and academically while solving all of the current scheduling problems.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Big_Red_1

Just throwing my $.02 in.  The 18 team concept with both North Carolina schools, Duke, and VT sounds like a terrific idea.  Now get out and sell this to the ACC.  Go Hogs.
I'm fond of pigs.  Dogs look up to us.  Cats look down on us.   Pigs treat us as equals.

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OFTEN WRONG BUT NEVER IN DOUBT!!!

huggerfrommanila

3 divisions makes sense for scheduling but what about the championship game. how would you figure out the two participants
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psooie

Get approved a 2 game playoff. Rewards the regular season with one division winner getting a bye and brings in more money with 2 games. Big 10 would probably need to jump to 18 to also lobby such a move.

SEC adds UNC, Duke, Ncar state, VT

Big 10 adds UVA, Syracuse, GT and Miami


 

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: huggerfrommanila on December 28, 2012, 12:12:25 pm
3 divisions makes sense for scheduling but what about the championship game. how would you figure out the two participants

I think you'd have a number of options.

First, you could do a playoff with either 4 teams or 2 teams and a bye.

Other options would involve tie-breaker systems.  In a case of a two-way tie, you'd take head-to-head if the teams played each other.  If they didn't, or if there was a three-way tie, you could use BCS rankings, a points system, wins by defeated conference opponents, or other tie-breaking mechanisms.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

ArkansasI

NSR,

Great job in assembling that 18 team conference.  I think it looks really great and could work.

My primary problem is that it will take 11 years to play through the conference schedule (to see each conference opponent) assuming +2 are home and home series.  A sixteen team conference with 4 divisions is far more manageable to me if playing all conference opponents matters at all.  I like the idea of seeing everyone within a 4 year schedule (assuming you eliminate non-conference games).

Of course, I think I am about the only fan interested in getting rid of the rent a wins.  I find little joy watching the Hogs play Louisiana Monroe.  For this reason, if the SEC moves to 16 teams, I would prefer a 5+4+1.  At least it would be no more than 5 years between seeing all conference opponents.  You could still schedule 1 pansy - which is all we should pursue.  I am convinced that non-conference games have never helped the Hogs, except perhaps monetarily.

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: Murr on December 27, 2012, 07:59:32 pm
Here is a quick round of up stuff being mentioned lately

From @thedudeofwv from today:

Mr. SEC released his third installment of his "Big Bang" series; today he looks at rumors and possible target combinations that each conference might be considering or is available.

http://www.mrsec.com/2012/12/big-bang-theories-the-countdown-to-super-conferences-part-3/#more-265873

For the SEC, he says the current options appear to be:
1.    Duke and UNC combo
2.   Virginia Tech would be a good fit
3.   Bring in the entire Research Triangle (UNC, Duke and NC State) and round off with Virginia Tech
4.   Add within footprint (only if being defensive or TV is paying for it)

In option 3 (Research Triangle with VT), that would be the easiest way to counter the B1G's offer to UNC and Duke about having several familiar members (Maryland, Virginia, Georgia Tech).  I could see this as being an option that the SEC might take, from a programing standpoint in basketball and in academics and research funding,  but the question is scheduling 18 just as much a problem as scheduling for 14?

I can see the SEC Presidents being intrigued by the possibility of bringing in the Research Triangle. If the SECAC is meant to be a "Southern CIC" that would go a long way toward narrowing the gap. The big problem I see is that seems to put a whole lot of influence into the hands of North Carolina who was used to running the show in the ACC. I don't think that creating a "North Carolina Division" in the SEC is a good thing. If NC State has a soft landing spot in the Big XII I would think UNC/Duke would be the preferred combo. That gets the SECAC some desired research heavyweights to partner with and keeps SEC members on fairly equal footing overall.

elvis26

 ;D i think going to 18 teams is a great idea!!!!!! i believe it would work out on the schedule also!!!!!! lets get it done slive!!!!!!!!!!!

Porkatarian

I believe within 2 years we'll see VaTech and NC State added to the East, with Missouri moving back to the West.  Then you'll see (2) four team pods in each division.  Our's would be: Arkansas, A&M, LSU, and Missouri.  Make no mistake about it, it's all about the number of cable television subscribers. VaTech and NC State give us (2) new TV markets.


Porkatarian out...
"I came here to win the SEC and that is exactly what we are going to do."

texas tush hog

Quote from: Porkatarian on December 28, 2012, 04:32:15 pm
I believe within 2 years we'll see VaTech and NC State added to the East, with Missouri moving back to the West.  Then you'll see (2) four team pods in each division.  Our's would be: Arkansas, A&M, LSU, and Missouri.  Make no mistake about it, it's all about the number of cable television subscribers. VaTech and NC State give us (2) new TV markets.


Porkatarian out...

That does seem to be the plan at this time. UVA and UNC would be the primaries, but they both fancy themselves as being the belles of the ball, kind of like Texas and Notre Dame. Sixteen is the cap, will not go above that. Four pods or whatever you want to call them. Fourteen is difficult, eighteen would be a nightmare.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: Porkatarian on December 28, 2012, 04:32:15 pm
I believe within 2 years we'll see VaTech and NC State added to the East, with Missouri moving back to the West.  Then you'll see (2) four team pods in each division.  Our's would be: Arkansas, A&M, LSU, and Missouri.  Make no mistake about it, it's all about the number of cable television subscribers. VaTech and NC State give us (2) new TV markets.


Porkatarian out...
I agree that it's all about media markets. That's why people need to take a look at Cincinnati. Ohio is the 7th largest populated state and Cincinnati is the 2nd largest university. That's a lot of TV dollars.

Murr

Quote from: Hawghiggs on December 28, 2012, 09:37:48 am
I wouldn't mind adding Cincinnati to the east. If you don't know much about them take a look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cincinnati and then their is the city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati  This would give the SEC a foothold into one of the larger northern states and would also get the SEC a powerful basketball program.

I was thinking about including Cincy's review from Mr. SEC's 2nd expansion installment.  On paper they are very intriguing; huge number of tv households, #49 of research expenditures, but not AAU.  My feeling is they lack in merchandise, fan following numbers and the student body numbers are suspect.

QuoteCincinnati
Cable Households in Ohio:  2,978,860
Top 100 in Research Expenditures:  Yes (#49)
AAU Member Institution:  No
Summary:  Keep an eye on UC, folks.  The school boasts a quality TV market — though the state of Ohio will always be owned by Ohio State — and it's located in a very fertile recruiting zone.  Travel in and out is obviously easy.  And the school's academic reputation is improving, aided by the university's heavy push toward academic research.  The Big XII would seem to be a natural fit should that league decide to grow.  If the ACC can keep itself upright, the Bearcats might make a nice expansion partner there as well.

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on December 28, 2012, 02:10:37 pm
I can see the SEC Presidents being intrigued by the possibility of bringing in the Research Triangle. If the SECAC is meant to be a "Southern CIC" that would go a long way toward narrowing the gap. The big problem I see is that seems to put a whole lot of influence into the hands of North Carolina who was used to running the show in the ACC. I don't think that creating a "North Carolina Division" in the SEC is a good thing. If NC State has a soft landing spot in the Big XII I would think UNC/Duke would be the preferred combo. That gets the SECAC some desired research heavyweights to partner with and keeps SEC members on fairly equal footing overall.

I agree that UNC and Duke are preferred for academics, basketball and less duplication in the state of North Carolina.  But if NC State can't find a soft landing spot in the Big 12 (they appear to be one of the fringe schools based on TV evaluations from Fox apparently) then the SEC might have to go three deep in NC and find an additional school (hopefully VT is still available).

Quote from: Porkatarian on December 28, 2012, 04:32:15 pm
I believe within 2 years we'll see VaTech and NC State added to the East, with Missouri moving back to the West.  Then you'll see (2) four team pods in each division.  Our's would be: Arkansas, A&M, LSU, and Missouri.  Make no mistake about it, it's all about the number of cable television subscribers. VaTech and NC State give us (2) new TV markets.


Porkatarian out...

TV money is very important, but when compared to TV dollars earned in the Big Ten from athletics pails in comparison to what they could make from the CIC.  So if Slive can bring in a top ten university (Duke) and a top 30 school (UNC) that are both AAU research members, that could be worth more in the total package than by just focusing on the athletic revenue projections.

Murr

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8796807/boise-state-broncos-staying-mountain-west-conference-sources-say

BSU staying in MWC.  Will have to pay BE $5M exit fee, just like TCU did, but will get help from MWC.

SDST wants back in but MWC hopping for BYU to round off to 12.


I think the MWC should look at SMU and Houston.

GuvHog

Quote from: Porkatarian on December 28, 2012, 04:32:15 pm
I believe within 2 years we'll see VaTech and NC State added to the East, with Missouri moving back to the West.  Then you'll see (2) four team pods in each division.  Our's would be: Arkansas, A&M, LSU, and Missouri.  Make no mistake about it, it's all about the number of cable television subscribers. VaTech and NC State give us (2) new TV markets.


Porkatarian out...

You do realize that SEC Commissioner Mike Slive has stated numerous times that the Pod system will not happen in the SEC don't you???
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Brass Knob

Quote from: Murr on December 31, 2012, 03:36:05 pm
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8796807/boise-state-broncos-staying-mountain-west-conference-sources-say

BSU staying in MWC.  Will have to pay BE $5M exit fee, just like TCU did, but will get help from MWC.

SDST wants back in but MWC hopping for BYU to round off to 12.


I think the MWC should look at SMU and Houston.

Moral of the story... Do not piss ESPN off because they can and will destroy your conference.

Signed,

The Conference that was Big East

 

Murr

Quote from: Brass Knob on December 31, 2012, 03:43:55 pm
Moral of the story... Do not piss ESPN off because they can and will destroy your conference.

Signed,

The Conference that was Big East

Don't give us a low-ball TV offer either.



Signed,

Big Ten Network

texas tush hog

Quote from: Terry (GUVHOG) Holcomb on December 31, 2012, 03:42:27 pm
You do realize that SEC Commissioner Mike Slive has stated numerous times that the Pod system will not happen in the SEC don't you???

He also said we would play with 13 teams in 2012. LOL

GuvHog

Quote from: texas tush hog on December 31, 2012, 04:51:24 pm
He also said we would play with 13 teams in 2012. LOL

That was the plan until they found out that Missouri would accept an invitation to join as well.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

texas tush hog

Quote from: Terry (GUVHOG) Holcomb on December 31, 2012, 04:54:31 pm
That was the plan until they found out that Missouri would accept an invitation to join as well.


Was never true, Missouri was a package deal with the Aggies from the get go. A lot of disinformation from Mizzou to keep the pressure off, apparently you were not following my posts during the whole ordeal. They may not call them pods but it will turn out the same. He also said we were never going to nine game schedules but check back with me in 2014 and we shall see. Many on this board can attest to the fact that I called the A&M-Mizzou alliance before anybody else even thought about it.

psooie

Cincy? they fit in the sec like dog crap on a shoe. I believe  the sec will expand if it can land any of these school's, UNC, Duke, NC state, UVA or Virg tech. I wouldn't have a problem if the landed all 5.

HoopS

If you walk on it hard, it can get in the creases and stick a while.  I usually take a hose to it. 

Hawghiggs

Quote from: psooie on December 31, 2012, 08:56:47 pm
Cincy? they fit in the sec like dog crap on a shoe. I believe  the sec will expand if it can land any of these school's, UNC, Duke, NC state, UVA or Virg tech. I wouldn't have a problem if the landed all 5.
It's not about how they fit. It's about what marktets cant they bring. I agree that North Carolina and Virginia should be the primary targets. But if we can't land one of them. Then what is wrong with trying to get Cincinnati and Florida state? FSU is the brand name and Cincy brings the Ohis markets.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Hawghiggs on December 31, 2012, 11:31:15 pm
It's not about how they fit. It's about what marktets cant they bring. I agree that North Carolina and Virginia should be the primary targets. But if we can't land one of them. Then what is wrong with trying to get Cincinnati and Florida state? FSU is the brand name and Cincy brings the Ohis markets.

Have you ever been to Nippert Stadium, I have, walked the sidelines for several games and was about half full most of the time. Cincy does not bring the Ohio Markets, more of a competitor with the MAC teams, Miami Ohio, Toledo, Ohio U, and Bowling Green than they are with Ohio State.

HG

Quote from: Hawghiggs on December 31, 2012, 11:31:15 pm
It's not about how they fit. It's about what marktets cant they bring. I agree that North Carolina and Virginia should be the primary targets. But if we can't land one of them. Then what is wrong with trying to get Cincinnati and Florida state? FSU is the brand name and Cincy brings the Ohis markets.

FSU brings in very little that Florida can't already provide, and while Cincy does give us Ohio markets, they're the tiny stupid little stepbrother in a state dominated by OSU.  It would almost be like the SEC bringing in Arkansas State rather than Arkansas back in the '90s.

online-with-swine

I'm a little torn.  Would I want Duke and UNC or NCstate and Vtech?  But, more importantly who would Slive want?

Maybe, Slive does none of the above and jumps to 18 taking UVA, UNC, Vt and Duke.

Tim Harris

Quote from: KnilesKankle on January 01, 2013, 07:32:12 am
I'm a little torn.  Would I want Duke and UNC or NCstate and Vtech?  But, more importantly who would Slive want?

Maybe, Slive does none of the above and jumps to 18 taking UVA, UNC, Vt and Duke.

I'm most likely in the minority but i would rather have NC State and Va Tech.

online-with-swine

You would probably be surprised.  UNC, Duke and UVA seem a little pretentious while VT and NCst are more on level with the SEC mentality, imo.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: HG on January 01, 2013, 12:18:56 am
FSU brings in very little that Florida can't already provide, and while Cincy does give us Ohio markets, they're the tiny stupid little stepbrother in a state dominated by OSU.  It would almost be like the SEC bringing in Arkansas State rather than Arkansas back in the '90s.
In a way, The same could have been said about Texas A&M. Cincy's biggest problem is in branding not in strength of program. If they were called Ohio A&M would that actually be better.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: KnilesKankle on January 01, 2013, 08:23:14 am
You would probably be surprised.  UNC, Duke and UVA seem a little pretentious while VT and NCst are more on level with the SEC mentality, imo.

I lived and worked in both VA and NC. UNC, Duke and UVA are VERY pretentious.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

GuvHog

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on January 01, 2013, 08:35:52 am
I lived and worked in both VA and NC. UNC, Duke and UVA are VERY pretentious.

Agreed, they are very unlikely. Some believe NCSU and V. Tech would jump ship immediately if given invitations to join the SEC.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

texas tush hog

Quote from: Tim Harris on January 01, 2013, 08:10:16 am
I'm most likely in the minority but i would rather have NC State and Va Tech.


Not sure I'm not 100% with you on this Tim. I want UVA about as much as I want Texass and Notre Dame, elitist b_st_rds. Va Tech and NC State are more a fit with us SEC good ole boys. UNC is getting more elitist by the day. They would, at this point bring more to the table than NC State but as we have seen with Arkansas and South Carolina, this evolves with time. A&M evolved quickly and Missouri will in time. Va Tech is a slam dunk and I think Slive is scanning the landscape on UNC according to my good sources. Louisville and Cincy are non starters, not even in the conversation, trust me.

3dawghawg

How close are we to adding two more teams? Will it happen this year?

Hawghiggs

Quote from: 3dawghawg on January 01, 2013, 10:22:17 am
How close are we to adding two more teams? Will it happen this year?
It's going to happen soon, because scheduling has become a nightmare.

texas tush hog

Quote from: 3dawghawg on January 01, 2013, 10:22:17 am
How close are we to adding two more teams? Will it happen this year?

I think so. but without a doubt before 2014 when the new BCS system kicks in. The reason for the temporary scheduling system for 2013 is just to kick the can down the road. Everything will change for 2014 for sure, but don't know exactly what at this time. Look for some developments after signing day or even after basketball is over. This summer, things will start hoppng, don't ask me what, because nobody is talking right now in the SEC, and my Aggie sources are as much in the dark as the rest of us right now,so we will have to be patient. It is not as tight lipped as it was during the A&M-Mizzou ordeal because things were so contentious because of the Ken Starr episode at Baylor. Slive has been sitting back and letting the B1G carry the water so far, but just because things have been so quiet does not mean Ole Slyve has not been working. He taught Jeff Long how to slither around under the radar.

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: Hawghiggs on December 31, 2012, 11:31:15 pm
It's not about how they fit. It's about what marktets cant they bring. I agree that North Carolina and Virginia should be the primary targets. But if we can't land one of them. Then what is wrong with trying to get Cincinnati and Florida state? FSU is the brand name and Cincy brings the Ohis markets.

Markets are certainly a big part of the equation but that's not the only factor by any stretch. Cincy is an urban commuter school along the lines of Louisville, Memphis, Houston, and USF. The SEC will sit tight at 14 before it would start adding schools like Cincy. As long as the SEC is acting from a position of strength the SEC Presidents will be driving the boat on who gets added and they are looking for flagship universities in southern states that have excellent academic credentials and lots of research funding. Raising the academic profile of the SEC is a priority to the university presidents and the main reason Mizzou was taken instead of West Virginia (market size was gravy).

With Maryland gone, and Texas off the table, the primary targets are UNC, UVA and VT. UNC and UVA are AAU institutions and considered among the "Public Ivies", but UVA seems to be zeroed in on the B1G. Duke gets consideration because of it's academic prestige and because it's such a powerful brand in basketball that if the only way to get UNC is to take Duke the SEC will do it. Duke is also one of the largest research universities in the country. VT is not AAU but is very strong academically and does a ton of research. NC State is an acceptable fallback as number 16 if necessary and is part of the Research Triangle in North Carolina.

Anything can happen but I think VT and NC State are the fallback plan. If it's not those two we may not expand.

Lysol

I check this thread everyday hoping for something new rather than just new opinions

texas tush hog

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on January 01, 2013, 11:39:06 am
Markets are certainly a big part of the equation but that's not the only factor by any stretch. Cincy is an urban commuter school along the lines of Louisville, Memphis, Houston, and USF. The SEC will sit tight at 14 before it would start adding schools like Cincy. As long as the SEC is acting from a position of strength the SEC Presidents will be driving the boat on who gets added and they are looking for flagship universities in southern states that have excellent academic credentials and lots of research funding. Raising the academic profile of the SEC is a priority to the university presidents and the main reason Mizzou was taken instead of West Virginia (market size was gravy).

With Maryland gone, and Texas off the table, the primary targets are UNC, UVA and VT. UNC and UVA are AAU institutions and considered among the "Public Ivies", but UVA seems to be zeroed in on the B1G. Duke gets consideration because of it's academic prestige and because it's such a powerful brand in basketball that if the only way to get UNC is to take Duke the SEC will do it. Duke is also one of the largest research universities in the country. VT is not AAU but is very strong academically and does a ton of research. NC State is an acceptable fallback as number 16 if necessary and is part of the Research Triangle in North Carolina.

Anything can happen but I think VT and NC State are the fallback plan. If it's not those two we may not expand.


First of all it's not if we expand but who and when. Va. Tech will be one and UNC or NC State will be the other. It all depends on whether UNC bilieves they are too good for the SEC as UVA does. If so then NC State will be the choice, and that is the odds on choice at this juncture. Fla State does not really add anything to the footprint and now that Maryland has left,it narrows the footprint potential. The next year will bring Va. Tech and either UNC or NC State and there will probably not be any other options. Fla State seems to have been left out of the mix. No Duke in the mix, period. If UNC pushes Duke goodbye UNC.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: Hugo Bezdek on January 01, 2013, 11:39:06 am
Markets are certainly a big part of the equation but that's not the only factor by any stretch. Cincy is an urban commuter school along the lines of Louisville, Memphis, Houston, and USF. The SEC will sit tight at 14 before it would start adding schools like Cincy. As long as the SEC is acting from a position of strength the SEC Presidents will be driving the boat on who gets added and they are looking for flagship universities in southern states that have excellent academic credentials and lots of research funding. Raising the academic profile of the SEC is a priority to the university presidents and the main reason Mizzou was taken instead of West Virginia (market size was gravy).

With Maryland gone, and Texas off the table, the primary targets are UNC, UVA and VT. UNC and UVA are AAU institutions and considered among the "Public Ivies", but UVA seems to be zeroed in on the B1G. Duke gets consideration because of it's academic prestige and because it's such a powerful brand in basketball that if the only way to get UNC is to take Duke the SEC will do it. Duke is also one of the largest research universities in the country. VT is not AAU but is very strong academically and does a ton of research. NC State is an acceptable fallback as number 16 if necessary and is part of the Research Triangle in North Carolina.

Anything can happen but I think VT and NC State are the fallback plan. If it's not those two we may not expand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cincinnati#Academic_profile I've posted this before on Cincy. They are a lot better than most seem to think.

online-with-swine

The university of Cinci does not bring the city of Cincinnati, let alone the state of Ohio.  tOSU and UK fans are more common there than UC fans.

texas tush hog

Quote from: Lysol on January 01, 2013, 01:46:22 pm
I check this thread everyday hoping for something new rather than just new opinions


I checked into this thread to give some facts and I did,but most of these 24 pages are just mindless speculation. When I get some new information I will return, but as I posted, my sources, in Birmingham and here in Texas are currently silent,when that changes I will check back but for now read the mindless speculation and waste your time. Good day and Happy New year.

Hugo Bezdek

Quote from: Hawghiggs on January 01, 2013, 02:23:17 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cincinnati#Academic_profile I've posted this before on Cincy. They are a lot better than most seem to think.

Can't argue with the numbers. But I think they still have an image problem (commuter school) that puts them at a disadvantage. I don't think the SEC moves that far down the list of options.