I have a question about walk ons

[darkstar]

I have a son that is a junior this year.  He is 6'1" and 310lbs.   His small school doesn't have a football program.  He wants to walk onto a football program to try out.   It is as easy as it sounds or is there other things to do first?  We just want some info if you have any. 
Thanks

[Dr. Starcs]

Is he in hs?

[rhames]

Not to be that guy but I wouldn't think it would be easy for anyone to walk on at an sec school especially not playing any during high school.

[jgphillips3]

Some info:

http://www.asboa.org/Registration/EligibilityGuide.pdf

[factchecker]

Let's get some things sorted:

He is a junior in high school.

The school he attends doesn't have football.

He wants to eventually walk-on at a college program.

Advice:

1. If you can transfer to a school with football I would.  It's hard to know his skill level or readiness without actually playing the game.  He really needs to play the game to know if he genuinely wants to play.

2.  6'1" and 310 is big but that is a little heavy for his height.  I'm guessing he is either going to be an offense or defensive lineman.  He needs to have as much good/functional weight as possible.

3.  Work on your foot-speed.  Jump rope. Bust your butt doing ladder drills ----- get your feet fast.

4. Academics:  Walking-on is considerably easier if you have a full paid academic scholarship.  Get your grades right.

5.  Go to camps.  If he is entering his junior year then he will have a chance to hit a ton of prospect camps this summer.


It's difficult to walk on even with playing experience BUT I wish your son the best of luck.

We have a father of a Razorback walk-on who posts on this board.  He can probably give you some more information.

[rhames]

My reading comprehension isn't on point tonight.

[factchecker]

My reading comprehension isn't on point tonight.

I'm not sure I'm right either.

[rhames]

I'm not sure I'm right either.

After re reading the post I think he may be talking about walking on to a high school team?


That makes a little more sense

[factchecker]

After re reading the post I think he may be talking about walking on to a high school team?


That makes a little more sense

If that's the case then here is my advice:

1. Go to the coaches office.

2. Say, "Hey coach I want to play football."

[darkstar]

He is in high school.   Sorry for not putting that in the post.   He has good grades 3.0 and above.    He is on the basketball team, but not a basketball type player.  Wished we would have transferred him to a football high school earlier on so he could get some experience.  My wife has a cousin that is a football coach and he would have loved if he could have played for him.   Think he is coaching at Haskel now.   
I feel for him.  He never told me he wanted to try out.  I would have acted before now.

[darkstar]

Not Haskel, Harmony Grove.   Paul Calley   my bad. 

[factchecker]

Not Haskel, Harmony Grove.   Paul Calley   

Grades look great.  If he is on the basketball team then he has at least some athleticism and probably a good bit of conditioning.

I would get in touch with Coach Calley ASAP so he can get into winter/spring conditioning.  It would be great if he could get in before spring ball.

[Dr. Starcs]

Is a football school for his sr year not an option?

[darkstar]

Yes, he can transfer.  But I am leaving it up to him now.    It is kinda fun to watch a 316 lb basketball player set a pick on a 175lb player.   

[DLUXHOG]

I have a son that is a junior this year.  He is 6'1" and 310lbs.   His small school doesn't have a football program.  He wants to walk onto a football program to try out.   It is as easy as it sounds or is there other things to do first?  We just want some info if you have any. 
Thanks

Go for it, no matter the odds..... go for it!

[Dr. Starcs]

If that truly is his goal, he needs to transfer to a school that actually has football and he can get some experience and exposure.

Most of those football schools have basketball as well.

[darkstar]

Thanks for the input.  I am a father that will do whatever it takes for my kids.

[factchecker]

Thanks for the input.  I am a father that will do whatever it takes for my kids.

Your doing the most important job on the planet.

[onebadrubi]

See if you can find some U of A or other college camps to get him into

[jm]

Just pick the school and academic program that he is comfortable with and take your chances.

[hawgfan4life]

Can't just transfer after 10th grade.  There is a rule with AAA that a kid can attend the school they live and play football at a nearby school because their school does not offer that sport.  Unless he goes to another small school, he would likely struggle getting to play with no past experience.

1.  Move into a district with football now so he can go through offseason and spring ball.

2.  Find some small colleges with football and attend their camps.  Let their coaches know he wants to walk on.

3.  There are a handful of colleges with football in Kansas and Missouri that play at a very low level.  They take all comers and want kids that have scholarships and aide of any kind.  They don't offer scholarships like big schools do.

4.  Help your son decide if this is worth leaving his current high school to chase this dream.  Find someone that knows what their doing to test him on bench, squat, and clean.  Time him in 40 and some agility tests.  Basically see if he is pipe dreaming a fantasy or if he has physical tools that can be developed.  Then have him put through a legitimate weekly workout for strength, speed, and agility and see if he thinks he can do that every week for the next five years.

Sometimes the adults need to slap a kid with a big dose of reality.  Football in college is a job more than a game.  I've personally known several athletes that have received scholarships and walked on for football.  About 90% never make it to their second season before deciding football isn't fun anymore and quit.  The ones that last are D1 players that have amazing support systems in place to help the players psychologically handle everything.  The non D1 players that last are ones that play a lot as FR and see more playing in their future.

Good luck.

[hawgfan4life]

Add:  most colleges serious about football don't just take walkon players that show up over the summer.  They have preferred walkon and regular walkon players and all are invited. 

[kodiakisland]

If he wants to play football, he needs to do it now.  There are a ton of HS players that aren't good enough to walk on at any college level.  Can't imagine how anyone who has never played the game could do it.

I hate to broach the subject, but I'm wondering about 310lbs at 16 years old.  Is it mostly fat or some muscle?  Just being big isn't worth a lot.

Get him in a small school, 2A or 3A where he can actually play his senior year.  See how good he is.  Lots of small colleges in the state that he might be able to walk on at.

[DeltaBoy]

Move to a school with football and do it now. 
Attend at least 2 camps this summer.
Good Luck.

[bennyl08]

Let's get some things sorted:

He is a junior in high school.

The school he attends doesn't have football.

He wants to eventually walk-on at a college program.

Advice:

1. If you can transfer to a school with football I would.  It's hard to know his skill level or readiness without actually playing the game.  He really needs to play the game to know if he genuinely wants to play.

2.  6'1" and 310 is big but that is a little heavy for his height.  I'm guessing he is either going to be an offense or defensive lineman.  He needs to have as much good/functional weight as possible.

3.  Work on your foot-speed.  Jump rope. Bust your butt doing ladder drills ----- get your feet fast.

4. Academics:  Walking-on is considerably easier if you have a full paid academic scholarship.  Get your grades right.

5.  Go to camps.  If he is entering his junior year then he will have a chance to hit a ton of prospect camps this summer.


It's difficult to walk on even with playing experience BUT I wish your son the best of luck.

We have a father of a Razorback walk-on who posts on this board.  He can probably give you some more information.

Haven't looked at the rules recently, but my understanding is #5 doesn't work. If a player has a scholarship, it will count against the scholarships available, even if it is academic. Which makes sense if you think about it. Otherwise, pretty much every school would miraculously sign 10 or so "walk-ons" who each had a full ride from an academic scholarship.

[factchecker]

Haven't looked at the rules recently, but my understanding is #5 doesn't work. If a player has a scholarship, it will count against the scholarships available, even if it is academic. Which makes sense if you think about it. Otherwise, pretty much every school would miraculously sign 10 or so "walk-ons" who each had a full ride from an academic scholarship.

I think non preferred walk-ons can be on academic scholarship.

Non preferred walk-ons are walk-ons who join practice at the beginning of the term.  They are not "signed".  They are not a part of the official 105 roster limit.They are nothing more than practice squad players.  They don't play, travel, or dress out for home games.  They might be on the sideline in a jersey and wind-suit pants.  These young men can be on academic scholarship. (I think)

This is what I believe the protocol is:

If a walkon earns his way up to playing time he will have to either be put on athletic scholarship or utilize bylaw 15.02.4.3.

15.02.4.3 Other Permissible Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are also permitted:

(Adopted: 1/10/95 effective 8/1/95, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Financial aid received from anyone upon whom the student-athlete is naturally or legally dependent;
(b) Financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability;
(c) Financial aid awarded through an established and continuing outside program as outlined in Bylaw 15.2.6.3; and
(d) Educational expenses awarded by the U.S. Olympic Committee, which count against an institution's sport-by-sport financial aid limitations and against the individual's maximum limit on financial aid.

[bennyl08]

I think non preferred walk-ons can be on academic scholarship.

Non preferred walk-ons are walk-ons who join practice at the beginning of the term.  They are not "signed".  They are not a part of the official 105 roster limit.They are nothing more than practice squad players.  They don't play, travel, or dress out for home games.  They might be on the sideline in a jersey and wind-suit pants.  These young men can be on academic scholarship. (I think)

This is what I believe the protocol is:

If a walkon earns his way up to playing time he will have to either be put on athletic scholarship or utilize bylaw 15.02.4.3.

15.02.4.3 Other Permissible Financial Aid. The following sources of financial aid are also permitted:

(Adopted: 1/10/95 effective 8/1/95, Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Financial aid received from anyone upon whom the student-athlete is naturally or legally dependent;
(b) Financial aid awarded solely on bases having no relationship to athletics ability;
(c) Financial aid awarded through an established and continuing outside program as outlined in Bylaw 15.2.6.3; and
(d) Educational expenses awarded by the U.S. Olympic Committee, which count against an institution's sport-by-sport financial aid limitations and against the individual's maximum limit on financial aid.

Is there actually a difference b/w a regular and a preferred walk-on, as far as the NCAA is concerned? Seems like that is much more a gentleman's agreement than anything. The 105 limit only applies at certain times like fall camp. After that it goes back to 130 or what have you. There's typically a limit on how many can travel with the team, but there's nothing saying a regular walk can't be a starter while a scholly gets left home. Nothing, to my knowledge, saying that you can't give a regular walk-on a scholarship before a preferred. Just rare that such a situation would happen and would be breaking the gentleman's agreement made.

Also, 'b' seems like it would be really, really easy to manipulate. I mean, have the Waltons set up a "hard worker" scholarship where it just so happens that we get several football players win it and it just so happens to cover a full ride. Now, given that you don't hear about other schools doing that, I'm guessing I might actually be under-estimating the NCAA (who thought they'd ever say that phrase?).

Also, a walk-on doesn't have to be put on scholarship if they earn playing time. Gibson has played in games in seasons past. No scholly. Earned a starting spot mid-season, no scholly. Only after the season when the numbers worked out did he get one.

[factchecker]

Is there actually a difference b/w a regular and a preferred walk-on, as far as the NCAA is concerned? Seems like that is much more a gentleman's agreement than anything. The 105 limit only applies at certain times like fall camp. After that it goes back to 130 or what have you. There's typically a limit on how many can travel with the team, but there's nothing saying a regular walk can't be a starter while a scholly gets left home. Nothing, to my knowledge, saying that you can't give a regular walk-on a scholarship before a preferred. Just rare that such a situation would happen and would be breaking the gentleman's agreement made.

A lot of good questions.  It would be cool if we could do an AMA (ask me anything) with someone in athletic administration.  Their are rules but it seems like with some rules there are loopholes.

I mean, have the Waltons set up a "hard worker" scholarship where it just so happens that we get several football players win it and it just so happens to cover a full ride. Now, given that you don't hear about other schools doing that, I'm guessing I might actually be under-estimating the NCAA (who thought they'd ever say that phrase?).

I think Nebraska used to do something like this back in the day.  Their walk-on program was the life blood of their program and they would use non-athletic scholarships as a method to keep the system going.

[Pork Twain]

My small town, Mammoth Spring, AR, did not have football and a lot of my friends transferred to Thayer, MO, or Highland, AR to play.  My dad was a drunk and hated sports, so I was just stuck playing basketball and never went to a Hog game as a kid.  I think I would have made a kickass LB or FB back in the day. 

That just meant I obsessed over all sports even more as I got older.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Here are a few points from the father of a current Razorback walk on.

1). Players on an academic scholarship (my son in on a Chancellor's Scholarship)
do not count against the 85.  These are scholarships that are available to any student based on academic merit.  These cannot be privately awarded scholarships.

2). He did not begin practice his freshman year until school started in 2015. He was part of the 105 for fall camp in 2016.

3). Being inserted into a game has no effect on the way his scholarship is designated.  This applies to academic scholarships, not private scholarships or awards. That is (b) listed in the bylaws and is set up by the university and closely regulated.


4). Any walk on, preferred or traditional, can be awarded an athletic scholarship at any time.  If a walk on is offered a scholarship prior to the completion of his second year, that scholarship counts against the 25 that the team can sign for the year's recruiting cycle.  If they've been in the program for two years, it count against the 85 total, but not the current year's 25.  Johnny Gibson was an example last year. Redshirt Sophomore, began his third year in the program.

There are countless details about all of this and Associate AD Jon Fagg oversees compliance and does a great job of interpreting and communicating the finer details.

[factchecker]

There are countless details about all of this and Associate AD Jon Fagg oversees compliance and does a great job of interpreting and communicating the finer details.

Thank you Fan for the info.

[I mustache you a question]

Is there actually a difference b/w a regular and a preferred walk-on, as far as the NCAA is concerned? Seems like that is much more a gentleman's agreement than anything. The 105 limit only applies at certain times like fall camp. After that it goes back to 130 or what have you. There's typically a limit on how many can travel with the team, but there's nothing saying a regular walk can't be a starter while a scholly gets left home. Nothing, to my knowledge, saying that you can't give a regular walk-on a scholarship before a preferred. Just rare that such a situation would happen and would be breaking the gentleman's agreement made.

Also, 'b' seems like it would be really, really easy to manipulate. I mean, have the Waltons set up a "hard worker" scholarship where it just so happens that we get several football players win it and it just so happens to cover a full ride. Now, given that you don't hear about other schools doing that, I'm guessing I might actually be under-estimating the NCAA (who thought they'd ever say that phrase?).

Also, a walk-on doesn't have to be put on scholarship if they earn playing time. Gibson has played in games in seasons past. No scholly. Earned a starting spot mid-season, no scholly. Only after the season when the numbers worked out did he get one.

You can be a walk on with an academic scholarship but once you make onto the 105 roster the academic scholarship automatically becomes a sports scholarship.  I think that is correct.  Nebraska was the king of this back in the day before they made the rule.

[snoblind]

A lot of good questions.  It would be cool if we could do an AMA (ask me anything) with someone in athletic administration.  Their are rules but it seems like with some rules there are loopholes.

I think Nebraska used to do something like this back in the day.  Their walk-on program was the life blood of their program and they would use non-athletic scholarships as a method to keep the system going.

The Nebraska angle was redshirting big linemen and it was some type of Agriculture program/scholly.  They would have the academic full ride until they were ready to play and then go on football scholarship Junior or Senior year.  IIRC, NCAA closed the loop hole at some point after they instituted the 85/105 type rules.

[FANONTHEHILL]

You can be a walk on with an academic scholarship but once you make onto the 105 roster the academic scholarship automatically becomes a sports scholarship.  I think that is correct.  Nebraska was the king of this back in the day before they made the rule.

You can be on the 105 and still be on an academic scholarship.  Look back at factchecker's post above.  15.02.4.3 refers to other forms of permissible aid.
(b) refers fo aid that has nothing to do with athletics.  In my son's case, a Chancellor's scholarship.  He cannot accept and other scholarship from an outside organization or entity.

The issue at Nebraska was that there was not an academic requirement and 100% of those receiving the scholarship played football.

[BigoBoys]

I have a friend that walked on during the Nutt days, the only high school sport he played was golf.  He was about 6'5" and played Matt Jones on the scout team.  He lasted one season, got his butt kicked every day and Matt Jones left. 

[hawgfan4life]

Not certain but I believe a preferred walk-on can report earlier than a walk-on.  Teams are limited to a specified number of preferred walk-on slots.  A non-preferred walk-on player cannot report and practice until the first day of school.  I believe that no football player can be on any scholarship and it NOT count towards the scholarship limit for the program.  In other words, an athlete that scores high enough on the ACT that he receives a scholarship based on that ACT score can keep that scholarship while being on the team.  I doesn't actually convert to an athletic scholarship, but does count as an athletic scholarship against the 85 limit.  It may or may not be required to count toward the current year limit of 25 based on year in school.

Again, I think this is how it works, but am not 100% certain.

Getting just to walk-on status is light years away from where you are now.  There are a lot more important items to do now before that kind of emotion and effort is spent.  As I implied in an earlier post, it is one thing to fantasize about being a college football player and another to be one in time, ability, and effort.  I would have someone that knows what they are doing put your son through a couple of weeks of balls-to-the-wall strength, speed, and agility training and have your son decide if he is willing to do that type of effort along with going to class and studying, while forsaking a lot of the social aspects of college life, in order to fulfill this dream.  There are a lot of things in life we fantasize about that are not nearly what we thought when reality slaps us in the face.

[factchecker]

There are a lot more important items to do now before that kind of emotion and effort is spent.  As I implied in an earlier post, it is one thing to fantasize about being a college football player and another to be one in time, ability, and effort.

I will never tell anyone to not try to walk-on but you are correct.

I had a nephew who played soccer in high school try and walk on at a division 2 school as a kicker.  He couldn't balance academics, practice time, and normal life.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Not certain but I believe a preferred walk-on can report earlier than a walk-on.  Teams are limited to a specified number of preferred walk-on slots.  A non-preferred walk-on player cannot report and practice until the first day of school.  I believe that no football player can be on any scholarship and it NOT count towards the scholarship limit for the program.  In other words, an athlete that scores high enough on the ACT that he receives a scholarship based on that ACT score can keep that scholarship while being on the team.  I doesn't actually convert to an athletic scholarship, but does count as an athletic scholarship against the 85 limit.  It may or may not be required to count toward the current year limit of 25 based on year in school.

Again, I think this is how it works, but am not 100% certain.

Getting just to walk-on status is light years away from where you are now.  There are a lot more important items to do now before that kind of emotion and effort is spent.  As I implied in an earlier post, it is one thing to fantasize about being a college football player and another to be one in time, ability, and effort.  I would have someone that knows what they are doing put your son through a couple of weeks of balls-to-the-wall strength, speed, and agility training and have your son decide if he is willing to do that type of effort along with going to class and studying, while forsaking a lot of the social aspects of college life, in order to fulfill this dream.  There are a lot of things in life we fantasize about that are not nearly what we thought when reality slaps us in the face.

You can be on an academic scholarship, dress for games, and play, and it does not count against the 85.  Read factchecker's post above.  Rule 15.02.4.3 explains the four exceptions to using one of the 85 scholarships.  In our families case, we utilize (b).  My son has a Chancellor's Scholarship.  As long as he maintains the required GPA and takes the minimum 15hrs per semester, he won't count against the 85. 

[PorkRinds]

You can be on an academic scholarship, dress for games, and play, and it does not count against the 85.  Read factchecker's post above.  Rule 15.02.4.3 explains the four exceptions to using one of the 85 scholarships.  In our families case, we utilize (b).  My son has a Chancellor's Scholarship.  As long as he maintains the required GPA and takes the minimum 15hrs per semester, he won't count against the 85.

And dude let me say, I'm freaking impressed with your son being able to keep up with that grind. 15 hours plus football responsibilities is impressive as heck.  You obviously did a great job teaching him responsibility.

[gopigs]

Anyone on this thread have a son on a Chancellor's Scholarship?

[bennyl08]

Here are a few points from the father of a current Razorback walk on.

1). Players on an academic scholarship (my son in on a Chancellor's Scholarship)
do not count against the 85.  These are scholarships that are available to any student based on academic merit.  These cannot be privately awarded scholarships.

2). He did not begin practice his freshman year until school started in 2015. He was part of the 105 for fall camp in 2016.

3). Being inserted into a game has no effect on the way his scholarship is designated.  This applies to academic scholarships, not private scholarships or awards. That is (b) listed in the bylaws and is set up by the university and closely regulated.


4). Any walk on, preferred or traditional, can be awarded an athletic scholarship at any time.  If a walk on is offered a scholarship prior to the completion of his second year, that scholarship counts against the 25 that the team can sign for the year's recruiting cycle.  If they've been in the program for two years, it count against the 85 total, but not the current year's 25.  Johnny Gibson was an example last year. Redshirt Sophomore, began his third year in the program.

There are countless details about all of this and Associate AD Jon Fagg oversees compliance and does a great job of interpreting and communicating the finer details.

Good stuff.

[tbhogfan]

I would highly recommend that he start playing in High School rather than walking on to a college football team. At very least, he should be playing whatever sports that his school offers, like perhaps being a shot putter on the track team to increase stamina, improve footwork and gain strength. 

College sports can be a big adjustment even for experienced athletes (it definitely was for me).  Best of luck to the young man.

[ricepig]

Anyone on this thread have a son on a Chancellor's Scholarship?

I had a son, and currently have a daughter.

[code red]

He would get hurt....count on it.

[lstewart]

The kid in this instance is not going to have a chance to walk on for the hogs. I think there are a couple of colleges paying D-3 football in Arkansas, which does not offer any athletic scholarships. I know Hendrix is one, and there may be another? One of the D-2 schools might take a look at a kid if he had some athletic ability. Of course the suggestion about playing high school football his senior year is the best answer. If the kid thought he might enjoy going to one of the smaller colleges in the state that play football, you could contact their coaching staff and ask about their walk-on policy. You probably could visit the campus at some point and talk to one of the coaches.

[BR]

My small town, Mammoth Spring, AR, did not have football and a lot of my friends transferred to Thayer, MO, or Highland, AR to play.  My dad was a drunk and hated sports, so I was just stuck playing basketball and never went to a Hog game as a kid.  I think I would have made a kickass LB or FB back in the day. 

That just meant I obsessed over all sports even more as I got older.

WOW, I am a Bear from way back.... Class of 78

[Pork Twain]

WOW, I am a Bear from way back.... Class of 78

94, my brother was 81 and sister was 87

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Yes, he can transfer.  But I am leaving it up to him now.    It is kinda fun to watch a 316 lb basketball player set a pick on a 175lb player.

I wouldn't want to be that 175lb player.  Come to think of it in HS I was that guy, only at 163.

[Hogberry Snortcake]

The kid in this instance is not going to have a chance to walk on for the hogs. I think there are a couple of colleges paying D-3 football in Arkansas, which does not offer any athletic scholarships. I know Hendrix is one, and there may be another? One of the D-2 schools might take a look at a kid if he had some athletic ability. Of course the suggestion about playing high school football his senior year is the best answer. If the kid thought he might enjoy going to one of the smaller colleges in the state that play football, you could contact their coaching staff and ask about their walk-on policy. You probably could visit the campus at some point and talk to one of the coaches.

NM.  Just realized we're still talking high school.