A message for all you Poll Experts

[007 License To Squeal]

Anyone can find fault with ANY poll.  Why don't you people just shut up and let the poll play out?

[ConwayHog]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

[Porkahontas]

I agree.

This is something I learned in a marketing research class in the fall.

You can have a perfect poll, and someone could point out something that can be done better on it. Especially if the person has a decided bias that goes against what the poll is hoping to find out. That's why most of these Nutt-lovers around here are finding so many faults. It's not the poll questions that are an issue. It's the fact that these people have a decided bias against what the poll is hoping to accomplish.

[mikeirwin]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

[MsNuttsandBolts]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

Go Mike!!!!! I agree.

[Pork Twain]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

Do you have to be a polling expert to know what a biased question looks like?  That is like saying I need to be a certified mechanic to tell I have a flat tire.

[hogsanity]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

See, mml, that the problem.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE HAD INPUT ON THE QUESTIONS.  Not Silver, not you or me, not the BAC, or JFB, or The RF.  The polling service should have been the ONLY ONES who had anything to do with the questions.

Silver opened himself up to this by posting about it here, then asking for funds here. 

[rzrbckfan426]

I haven't even seen the poll

[budcampbellfan]

Fans can't be "led" in this matter of Nutt.  Fans already know what their bottomline answers will be if called by the pollster.   The poll will be accurate, regardless.

[John_Samuel70]

Fans can't be "led" in this matter of Nutt.  Fans already know what their bottomline answers will be if called by the pollster.   The poll will be accurate, regardless.

Exactly.  It is all just a waste of time and money if you ask me.  People are going to believe what they want to about Nutt regardless of how the poll turns out.

[hogman64]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

What has been reinforced is that all Nutt huggers want to do is hide behind rhetoric and BS and " Love the coach or get out mentality" and when  ANYTHING that might produce facts is manufactured they start crying and whining...even when there is at least a 50% chance these facts may help their cause...........

Just think about it huggers you bash everything that might produce the truth or facts......

Nutt do a real interview with an unbiased reporter asking the questions that should be answered[and that would include the follow up questions to his first BS answer] ?   NOOOOOOOOOO

Depose the Nutt Brothers and TP?    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Have a legitimate polling firm do a poll ?    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

It has been obvious all along who wants the facts and who doesnt... You guys do a fantastic job of swallowing the BS coming out of Fayetteville .

[RazrHog_TX]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

This really makes me laugh...  I'll bring it up again - if you've seen Penn & Teller's B/S, you'll know that polls can be shaped and formed into whatever you want in order to get people to agree to do something/vote for something that is totally against their own best interests.  Before you laugh and call these people "stupid", they were able to get plenty of educated people to sign a petition to take away their own right to assemble, and take away their right to petition the US Government of grievances.  Just ask Fox News (which is why I find Irwin's post so amusing - er, I mean troubling) about polling and using those results.  Trusting news organizations to just report the news without bias has just been discredited with his words.  Why is it a problem for a person to try to help the guy come up with really good questions?  Why does that suddenly make these people, who are trying to help, would-be poll experts?  As a partner of a company, it is important to remain open to ANY criticism, because assuming you're always correct could be the death of your company. . .

[RazrHog_TX]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

See, mml, that the problem.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE HAD INPUT ON THE QUESTIONS.  Not Silver, not you or me, not the BAC, or JFB, or The RF.  The polling service should have been the ONLY ONES who had anything to do with the questions.

Silver opened himself up to this by posting about it here, then asking for funds here. 

BINGO

[HogBaptist]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

Why would anyone who doesn't know the identity of silver give money to him?  That is retarded.  Too many scams out there....

[budcampbellfan]

Fans can't be "led" in this matter of Nutt.  Fans already know what their bottomline answers will be if called by the pollster.   The poll will be accurate, regardless.

Exactly.  It is all just a waste of time and money if you ask me.  People are going to believe what they want to about Nutt regardless of how the poll turns out.

True, people already believe what they believe.  The poll will not affect that.  We are just trying to document how many and to see if the huggers and PTB are right.

However, it can't be a waste of money unless the government pays for it.  We can spend our own money as we please and enjoy it as we will.

[GBPackerFan]

I agree.

This is something I learned in a marketing research class in the fall.

You can have a perfect poll, and someone could point out something that can be done better on it. Especially if the person has a decided bias that goes against what the poll is hoping to find out. That's why most of these Nutt-lovers around here are finding so many faults. It's not the poll questions that are an issue. It's the fact that these people have a decided bias against what the poll is hoping to accomplish.

Actually, I think that you will find that probably more "Nutt-haters" have voiced their opinions and offered their criticism more than anyone else.  You definitely would have noticed that if you would have read a thread that silvertip started a few days ago.  Almost every person's post started with: "now first off, I am not a hugger and I want Nutt gone" (or something along those lines) before they criticized the poll.  They want to make sure that the poll can hold water in the end when the results are released.  If there are obvious biased-questions in the poll, then it can be easily dismissed after the results are shown.

[budcampbellfan]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

[HogBaptist]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

see my post above...that might have a little to do with it.

[little pigee]

Anyone can find fault with ANY poll.  Why don't you people just shut up and let the poll play out?

You put that so well!!!  +1 to you sir.

[budcampbellfan]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

see my post above...that might have a little to do with it.

doubt it

[Ouachihog]

Fans can't be "led" in this matter of Nutt.  Fans already know what their bottomline answers will be if called by the pollster.   The poll will be accurate, regardless.

Exactly.  It is all just a waste of time and money if you ask me.  People are going to believe what they want to about Nutt regardless of how the poll turns out.

True, people already believe what they believe.  The poll will not affect that.  We are just trying to document how many and to see if the huggers and PTB are right.

However, it can't be a waste of money unless the government pays for it.  We can spend our own money as we please and enjoy it as we will.

Yeah, it will be interesting.  However, I'm afraid about the only thing it will accomplish is giving one side more ammo in their seemingly endless quest.  If it is in favor of the dark side, we will hear "oh yeah, 5% right, well what about the POLL?"  If it is in favor of the huggers we will hear, "you darksiders are a meaningless minority b/c (insert high percentage of HDN supporters here) of our fans proved it in the POLL!" 

Heck, we have 2 or 3 threads per day simply debating the QUESTIONS in the poll.  Wait till the results come out.  Truthfully, I wish it would come out 100% one way or the other, but we know that won't happen. 

[YepItsMe]

Has the poll come out yet?  Just curious

[HogBaptist]

Has the poll come out yet?  Just curious

nope....

After looking at the Poll questions...i think that there are only 2 questions that are biased.  The reason they are biased is because they use the word better.  The word should have been adequate.   By using the word better, you are saying that he did a bad job.  If you use the word adequate, it is giving the person a chance to make up his own mind after he hears the question instead of during the question. 

Since those two questions are at the beginning of the poll, it does set a biased attitude for the poll during the last of the questions. 

[TheHogFan]

The ONLY issue I have is that he came up with the questions. Anyone who can't see the problem with that has never takin a statistics or political science class. It is a big deal. I have ZERO problem with conducting the poll itself, just do it the right way.

And when you (silvertip) bring the issue up on this board, you open yourself up to criticism. Thats the way it works. He could have conducted the poll and not told anyone about it until the results were known. But he came on here begged and try to guilt people into donating, which makes him and his poll fair game. If he didn't want criticism he should not have posted on here.

[EastexHawg]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

See, mml, that the problem.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE HAD INPUT ON THE QUESTIONS.  Not Silver, not you or me, not the BAC, or JFB, or The RF.  The polling service should have been the ONLY ONES who had anything to do with the questions.

Silver opened himself up to this by posting about it here, then asking for funds here. 

BINGO

Of course silvertip, or anyone who commissions a professional firm to conduct a poll, is going to have input into the questions asked.  What was he supposed to do, call them up and tell them he wanted them to conduct a poll...but that he couldn't tell them what he wanted them to ask?

Since the Nutt groupies can't attack either the sample size or the polling firm...all that is left for them is attacking the questions themselves.  This is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.  While some of the questions could possibly have been worded differently or better, they are not misleading.  A person who supports John White's, Frank Broyles', or Houston Nutt's leadership can readily identify the answer to each question that clearly indicates his opinion...and vice versa.

I never knew we had so many expert wordsmiths on this board.

[rzrbckfan426]

The ONLY issue I have is that he came up with the questions. Anyone who can't see the problem with that has never takin a statistics or political science class. It is a big deal. I have ZERO problem with conducting the poll itself, just do it the right way.

And when you (silvertip) bring the issue up on this board, you open yourself up to criticism. Thats the way it works. He could have conducted the poll and not told anyone about it until the results were known. But he came on here begged and try to guilt people into donating, which makes him and his poll fair game. If he didn't want criticism he should not have posted on here.

He had to make up the questions himself.  Nobody on the other side of the fence would step up to the plate (see first few threads).  You can't blame him for not trying.  If you want to have a pissing contest with someone call Shanklin or Dicus and gripe to them about letting this poll go unchecked by the supporters.

[GBPackerFan]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

See, mml, that the problem.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE HAD INPUT ON THE QUESTIONS.  Not Silver, not you or me, not the BAC, or JFB, or The RF.  The polling service should have been the ONLY ONES who had anything to do with the questions.

Silver opened himself up to this by posting about it here, then asking for funds here. 

BINGO

Of course silvertip, or anyone who commissions a professional firm to conduct a poll, is going to have input into the questions asked.  What was he supposed to do, call them up and tell them he wanted them to conduct a poll...but that he couldn't tell them what he wanted them to ask?

Since the Nutt groupies can't attack either the sample size or the polling firm...all that is left for them is attacking the questions themselves.  This is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.  While some of the questions could possibly have been worded differently or better, they are not misleading.  A person who supports John White's, Frank Broyles', or Houston Nutt's leadership can readily identify the answer to each question that clearly indicates his opinion...and vice versa.

I never knew we had so many expert wordsmiths on this board.

I kind of thought that the questions were the most important part of a poll.  Also, 600 out of about 2.8 million (about .02% of the state's population) is a pretty small sample size.  And no one knows who the polling firm is either.

[EastexHawg]

Also, 600 out of about 2.8 million (about .02% of the state's population) is a pretty small sample size. 

Gallup polls 1,000 adults...out of a U.S. adult population of about 190 MILLION...in its nationwide public opinion polls.  Still think 600 is "pretty small" for a poll of Arkansans?

[ConwayHog]

I kind of thought that the questions were the most important part of a poll.  Also, 600 out of about 2.8 million (about .02% of the state's population) is a pretty small sample size.  And no one knows who the polling firm is either.

Did you sleep through your statistics/political science classes

I amazed at how many people do not grasp the idea of sample size on this board and have subsequently questioned this poll.     

[casken]

I have not seen the questions and do not recall posting anything pro or con toward it.  I am interested in seeing it's results.

But in all due respect I ask this.  If HDN can be critiqued for virtually everything he does and JFB and the chancellor, then why isn't the same applied to one who makes a poll?  I imagine he is tired of the criticism and probably wonders often where did that come from?  I imagine HDN and Broyles and White are tired of it too.  And much of the criticism leveled at them is not from facts as much circumstantial conjecture.

When any U of A official answers in a way even remotely resembling this thread title it is pounced on.  Hey, fair is fair.  Silvertip took a bold step.  Let the canons roar and we'll see where the smoke clears.

If the game is played no holds barred in one direction, then it should be wide open in the other as well....should it not?  Just Sayin'...all's fair in love and war and posting!

WPS :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

[351hog]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

There are alot of coaching experts, recruiting experts, emailing experts, etc on this board too. 

[LilRounDevil]

And a lot of one way critics.  Agree with some of them and you are beyond reproach.  Disagree and you get told to shut up.

[hogsanity]

I think if you have offered to send Silvertip some bucks, he might have let you help.  I would think he is getting tired of criticism when no funds have been poured in from the most vocal critics.

See, mml, that the problem.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE HAD INPUT ON THE QUESTIONS.  Not Silver, not you or me, not the BAC, or JFB, or The RF.  The polling service should have been the ONLY ONES who had anything to do with the questions.

Silver opened himself up to this by posting about it here, then asking for funds here. 

BINGO

Of course silvertip, or anyone who commissions a professional firm to conduct a poll, is going to have input into the questions asked.  What was he supposed to do, call them up and tell them he wanted them to conduct a poll...but that he couldn't tell them what he wanted them to ask?

Since the Nutt groupies can't attack either the sample size or the polling firm...all that is left for them is attacking the questions themselves.  This is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.  While some of the questions could possibly have been worded differently or better, they are not misleading.  A person who supports John White's, Frank Broyles', or Houston Nutt's leadership can readily identify the answer to each question that clearly indicates his opinion...and vice versa.

I never knew we had so many expert wordsmiths on this board.

He could have just told the firm that he wanted a poll done on how people felt about HDn and the way he is handling his job.  I would say the same things about a poll commissioned by the RF. 

[D-Maczone]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

I agree....there seem to be as many poll experts as coaching, recruiting, administrative, legal, medical and so on experts.  

[LilRounDevil]

I kind of thought that the questions were the most important part of a poll.  Also, 600 out of about 2.8 million (about .02% of the state's population) is a pretty small sample size.  And no one knows who the polling firm is either.

Did you sleep through your statistics/political science classes

I amazed at how many people do not grasp the idea of sample size on this board and have subsequently questioned this poll.     

The sample size is not a problem and even the make-up of that sample may not be a problem.  Some questions do seem biased, but as I've said before there is no perfect poll.  I think the poll is silly, but as long as everybody understands that the form of the question always affects the answer to one extent or another and we can be honest about that I'm ok with it.  I just get irked when people try to claim any poll is unbiased.  Any time a question can be asked in more than one way and the pollster makes a choice there is a bias. (And biases are not inherently evil - as long as everyone understands they exist.)

[claytongray]

Sample size of the poll is fine (assuming the sampling is done based on population sizes and not simply 150 from NW AR, 150 from NE AR, etc). The problems lie in excluding some fans from the poll because they don't watch/listen to enough Razorback games and in the design of questions that will lead fans both to vote for Nutt & Co and against them.

[EastexHawg]

Sample size of the poll is fine. The problems lie in excluding some fans from the poll because they don't watch/listen to enough Razorback games and in the design of questions that will lead fans both to vote for Nutt & Co and against them.

Why would you want to include people who don't follow the program closely?  Is there some reason why including the opinions of people who are not familiar with the program, the people involved, and recent events would make the results more valuable and valid?

Including only those familiar with the subject matter is along the same lines as polling only likely voters.  If anything, it makes the poll results more compelling and relevant, not less.

[hogman64]

Sample size of the poll is fine (assuming the sampling is done based on population sizes and not simply 150 from NW AR, 150 from NE AR, etc). The problems lie in excluding some fans from the poll because they don't watch/listen to enough Razorback games and in the design of questions that will lead fans both to vote for Nutt & Co and against them.

Why would even the U of A want someone polled that has no use for their product?

[Boner]

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

There are alot of coaching experts, recruiting experts, emailing experts, etc on this board too. 

I was thinking the same thing.  Using that logic there are about 1,000 people on here that should coach a college football team and get rich.

If criticizing, or giving or opinion on, something that we're not experts on is a bad thing, we should just shut the board down.

[Boner]

Anyone can find fault with ANY poll.  Why don't you people just shut up and let the poll play out?

And you can find fault with any coach in America.  You gonna let that one play out?

[claytongray]

A guy may not watch the Hogs every chance he gets, but he can still considers himself a Razorback fan. If you exclude this type of fan from the results, you've given a reason for people dissatisfied with the results to discount them.

[claytongray]

Boner is owning this thread.

[hog_heaven_2000]

Anyone can find fault with ANY poll.  Why don't you people just shut up and let the poll play out?

If one changes only two words in the above statement, it sounds a lot like something a hugger would say.

"Anyone can find fault with ANY 'coach.'  Why don't you people just shut up and let the 'season' play out?"

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

The same thing is true with this statement.

What I've learned is we must have a lot of 'coaching' experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the 'game' maybe they should 'coach their own team' and get rich.

I'm not a hugger by the way. I'm glad a poll is finally being taken to see just how many people really support/oppose FB and HDN. I just see what to me is an obvious hypocracy. Silvertip and whoever else is involved in the poll have kind of made themselves into public figures by asking for donations, posting the poll questions, and calling a press conference to anounce the results. Why shouldn't the poll be put up for public scrutiny the same as the athletic department?

[billypig]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

That's BS......At least two threads with the announcement and information on how to contribute and even stickied by the mods....that sounds secretive and quiet.....bull

[EastexHawg]

A guy may not watch the Hogs every chance he gets, but he can still considers himself a Razorback fan. If you exclude this type of fan from the results, you've given a reason for people dissatisfied with the results to discount them.

Who said anything about excluding a guy who "may not watch the Hogs every chance he gets"?

If you had read the information on the "About Us" section of the poll website, you would have seen that this is what is said about who will and will not be excluded from the poll:

There will be a filter as the first poll question. Something like, "How many Hog football games do you attend, listen to, or watch on TV each year?" Those who reply "few or none" will be eliminated from the polling.  We are only interested in FANS' opinions.

Why would you want to include people whose answer to "how many Razorback games do you attend, listen to, or watch on TV" is "few or none"?

[claytongray]

A guy may not watch the Hogs every chance he gets, but he can still considers himself a Razorback fan. If you exclude this type of fan from the results, you've given a reason for people dissatisfied with the results to discount them.

Who said anything about excluding a guy who "may not watch the Hogs every chance he gets"?

If you had read the information on the "About Us" section of the poll website, you would have seen that this is what is said about who will and will not be excluded from the poll:

There will be a filter as the first poll question. Something like, "How many Hog football games do you attend, listen to, or watch on TV each year?" Those who reply "few or none" will be eliminated from the polling.  We are only interested in FANS' opinions.

Why would you want to include people whose answer to "how many Razorback games do you attend, listen to, or watch on TV" is "few or none"?

Interesting. When I read it a couple days ago, the person had to answer A to question 1 in order to for the poll to continue.

[budcampbellfan]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

That's BS......At least two threads with the announcement and information on how to contribute and even stickied by the mods....that sounds secretive and quiet.....bull

No.  I'm right.  He also tried to use PayPal only at first and a lot of people don't have one and don't want one.

[hog_heaven_2000]

I've read the poll questions and the comments about the poll questions several times now, and I don't think there's anything realy that wrong with the way the questions were worded.

However, I do have a problem with the first post of this thread in which 007 stated that those who have an opinion about the poll questions that are different than his need to "just shut up!" I've read some of the comments concerning the questions and they were well thought out and polite. I have a question for you 007, why shouldn't they be able to say what they think but you can? What gives you the right to tell them to "shut up?"

[GBPackerFan]

Anyone can find fault with ANY poll.  Why don't you people just shut up and let the poll play out?

If one changes only two words in the above statement, it sounds a lot like something a hugger would say.

"Anyone can find fault with ANY 'coach.'  Why don't you people just shut up and let the 'season' play out?"

What I've learned is we must have a lot of polling experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the business maybe they should start their own company and get rich.

The same thing is true with this statement.

What I've learned is we must have a lot of 'coaching' experts on this board.
If some of these people know this much about the 'game' maybe they should 'coach their own team' and get rich.

I'm not a hugger by the way. I'm glad a poll is finally being taken to see just how many people really support/oppose FB and HDN. I just see what to me is an obvious hypocracy. Silvertip and whoever else is involved in the poll have kind of made themselves into public figures by asking for donations, posting the poll questions, and calling a press conference to anounce the results. Why shouldn't the poll be put up for public scrutiny the same as the athletic department?

+1 Great point...

[hogsanity]

BTW, the only reason Silvertip hasn't been overwhelmed with money is the quiet and secretive way he has had to go about getting donations in order not to be accused of influencing the outcome.

That's BS......At least two threads with the announcement and information on how to contribute and even stickied by the mods....that sounds secretive and quiet.....bull

No.  I'm right.  He also tried to use PayPal only at first and a lot of people don't have one and don't want one.

Well, actually he said the reason he stopped using paypal was paypal insistence that he needed not for profit status.  I dont blame him for that at all, but, the fact remains, that at least 2 threads were created for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of soliciting funds.