Words of Wisdom from John Smoltz

[WilsonHog]

During his HOF induction speech:

"I want to encourage the families and parents that are out there that this is not normal to have a surgery at 14 and 15 years old. That you have time. Baseball is not a year-round sport. You have an opportunity to be athletic and play other sports. Don't let the institutions that are out there before you guaranteeing scholarship dollars and signing bonuses (convince you) this is the way."

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=John-Smoltzs-plea-in-Hall-of-Fame-speech-applies-to-parents-and-coaches-of-all-sports

[Knot2brite]

People just won't listen. High school and college coaches have been saying that for years. Kids need to play multiple sports and rest more. I coached high school and legion baseball for many years and I have seen it for twenty years now. It is just as bad in softball where 10-14 year old girls are playing weekend softball and playing 6-10 games a day all weekend long. Then parents wonder why kids burn out on sports and their bodies start breaking down. I had a college pitching coach tell me one time that a player only has so many pitches in his arm. The strategy was to figure out how to best use those pitches and leave the game without permanent scars.

[PorkRyan]

High school coaches say it, but a lot of times it is empty talk. They want you to play other sports but watch what happens when you miss a July football workout to play baseball. 

I'm afraid it is only going to get worse. With Harper and Bryant having so much success, people are going to point to them as examples of why you should specialize early. Meanwhile, the best player in the game (Trout) was a multi sport athlete. 

[pigture perfect]

I agree with Smoltz. I'm actually living proof. I can't lift my right elbow above my head. Had a coach who wanted me to be on the mound every game. Made me throw curve balls til my arm felt like it was falling off. I never lost my love for the game, just my ability to throw.

[Amityvillehogger]

Had a coach who wanted me to be on the mound every game. Made me throw curve balls til my arm felt like it was falling off. I never lost my love for the game, just my ability to throw.

Sadly, it still happens today.  A lot. Watch any little league World Series or go to any travel ball tourney. It's curve ball after curve ball. It's stupid.

But this is a soapbox I can easily jump on, so I'll leave it at this.

[JackJohnson]

Sadly, it still happens today.  A lot. Watch any little league World Series or go to any travel ball tourney. It's curve ball after curve ball. It's stupid.

But this is a soapbox I can easily jump on, so I'll leave it at this.

When my oldest son was around 10 or 11 he had a true 12-6 curve.  I told his USSSA coach he can use it as an out pitch, but nothing more.  The coach agreed but then starting calling it more and more until I finally had to step in and say something.  He told me he wouldn't see the mound anymore if he could only throw it on 2 strikes so I said fine he just won't pitch anymore at all. 

Even though it was very expensive to travel all over, I was more then fine watching him impact a game by running down balls all over the outfield while playing center as I was watching him on the mound potentially ruining his arm. 

He is now 17 and going into his Sr year and has never had any kind of arm trouble and his arm is way stronger then it has ever been as he didn't resume pitching until his So year of HS.  I am actually one that if I had to do it all over again wouldn't have let him pitch PERIOD for those 3 years from 9-11 until he got to HS, even if he was just throwing fastballs and changeups

[TNhawgfan]

As a long time high school and travel ball coach, i can assure you we're not all out there jeopardizing a kid's arm for the sake of a W. Some coaches are d bags and only look at the here and now. But a lot of us monitor our pitchers very closely. Not only in games, but in practices, bullpen sessions, etc. I made all kinds of parents upset when i wouldn't pitch my ace in the regional final and we lost. One W isn't worth a messed up arm

[Knot2brite]

Usually it isn't a high school coach that is at fault for a kids arm going out. Sometimes it is

[azhog10]

"Club" or "Travel" sports is what is killing all sports in my opinion right now. Most of those coaches think they are one or two superstars away from getting rich. As a basketball coach I have kids that think playing club ball is more important than school ball. Sadly their parents don't know any different. I also have kids that play club basketball in June (a non viewing period for college coaches) and into august and september (again non-viewing periods and right before the season when they should be resting and getting stronger). Club coaches seemed to have forgotten why Club and Travel ball was existed in the first place and no longer look out for the kids well being.

[bulldog04]

Well if you play baseball all summer and then play football during the fall then your arm never gets a break and the tendons and muscles are always under pressure.  Give the kids a few months off.

[89ALUM]

"Club" or "Travel" sports is what is killing all sports in my opinion right now. Most of those coaches think they are one or two superstars away from getting rich. As a basketball coach I have kids that think playing club ball is more important than school ball. Sadly their parents don't know any different. I also have kids that play club basketball in June (a non viewing period for college coaches) and into august and september (again non-viewing periods and right before the season when they should be resting and getting stronger). Club coaches seemed to have forgotten why Club and Travel ball was existed in the first place and no longer look out for the kids well being.

Agree 1000%.  I coach HS soccer and used to coach baseball.  Our HS soccer team used to be conference champs and often advanced to regionals in Ohio, which is really difficult to do.  Those days are gone because our best kids are playing club soccer year around.  Meanwhile, the regional club soccer team is dominant in the midwest and almost every kid on it is going to play in college.  However, kids get burned out and injured all the time and many don't even finish school, or if they do they quit soccer so they have to pay the rest of the tuition on their own dime.  It's an illusion that many club coaches promote to parents to get them to spend big bucks, and unfortunately it either kills the kid's love of the sport, injures them, or occasionally both.

And it means the kid can't play ANY other sports since they have to travel with their club non-stop (or else they'll lose their spot).  So it affects our golf, football, basketball and baseball teams as well.

[justmaybe]

I had a four tell me the first question he asked was at what age they starting throwing a curve ball. If it was before age 16 they got a black mark

[justmaybe]

Sorry I had as our tell me.

[justmaybe]

Sorry the text was not showing up. What  I keep trying to say is a 'scout' told me. He was a cousin and scouted for the Reds among others. We never threw true curves and was part the reason we never broke into the top tiers.  That and I never could get get some of the really top players. We limited how many weekends we played. But things have changed a lot. We recruited parents rather than players. Had almost no problems and had fun but we never won big.

[PorkRyan]

The Smoltz speech has created some great discussion on the baseball message boards.  According to PG, 9 out of the first 13 picks this year where baseball only from high school or earlier.  Then there is the Dominican factor.  Why are there so many Dominican SS's in the MLB?  The theory is that they have fielded 5x the number of grounders than Americans over their careers because they play baseball only.  Why are so many Dominican pitchers having TJ?  Probably because they have played year round baseball their whole lives, but no one knows for sure what causes UCL injuries.  There are a lot of theories about it, but no one has any definitive proof.  We do not that curve balls do not cause any more stress on the arm than a fastball.  That is straight from ASMI. 

[ricepig]

The Smoltz speech has created some great discussion on the baseball message boards.  According to PG, 9 out of the first 13 picks this year where baseball only from high school or earlier.  Then there is the Dominican factor.  Why are there so many Dominican SS's in the MLB?  The theory is that they have fielded 5x the number of grounders than Americans over their careers because they play baseball only.  Why are so many Dominican pitchers having TJ?  Probably because they have played year round baseball their whole lives, but no one knows for sure what causes UCL injuries.  There are a lot of theories about it, but no one has any definitive proof.  We do not that curve balls do not cause any more stress on the arm than a fastball.  That is straight from ASMI. 

That would be a properly thrown curve ball, too many young kids don't.

[PorkRyan]

That would be a properly thrown curve ball, too many young kids don't.

The study had 9-14 year olds throwing their normal curveball and they found that a curveball was actually less stressful than a fastball on the arm.  Somewhere along the way people have added the phrase "properly thrown curveball" but that wording is not in the research.

Each study concluded that curves are less stressful than fastballs and, based on the data collected, contributed little, if at all, to throwing injuries in youth players.

"I don't think throwing curveballs at any age is the factor that is going to lead to an injury," said Glenn Fleisig, the chairman of research at the American Sports Medicine Institute in Birmingham, Ala.

"Why did people believe the world was flat?  Because one guy told another it was flat and it looked flat.  Until someone discovered that it wasn't," he said.

One study of youth pitchers written by Fleisig and Andrews found youth players who pitched more than eight months a year increased their risk of an injury that led to surgery fivefold.  Youth players who threw more than 80 pitches a game were four times more likely to need an arm operation than those who did not, according to the study.

"I'm not saying, everyone throw the curveball," Fleisig said.  "I'm saying, if we're going to prevent injuries, change the focus.  We should be looking at overuse.

[ricepig]

If you don't think there's a proper way to throw a curve, and those who supinate(sp), then you're in for a big problem. I've seen 12yr olds turn their palm up on curveball, they won't pitch at 16.

[PorkRyan]

If you don't think there's a proper way to throw a curve, and those who supinate(sp), then you're in for a big problem. I've seen 12yr olds turn their palm up on curveball, they won't pitch at 16.

I know there are proper ways to throw a curve ball, I am saying the research did not differentiate between an improper and proper curveball. 

[ricepig]

I know there are proper ways to throw a curve ball, I am saying the research did not differentiate between an improper and proper curveball. 

Don't you think that would be a factor?

[PorkRyan]

Don't you think that would be a factor?

I am pretty confident that some of the kids in the study did not throw a curveball properly.  Just like Dr Fleisig said in the study, here we are talking about curveballs when the focus needs to be on overuse.   

[ricepig]

I am pretty confident that some of the kids in the study did not throw a curveball properly.  Just like Dr Fleisig said in the study, here we are talking about curveballs when the focus needs to be on overuse.   

Yep, overuse of throwing an incorrect curveball, haha. I'm a Dick Mills believer on pitching, proper mechanics allows the arm to come along for the ride. I also am a firm believer in playing multiple sports, so I concur with the Smoltz's comments.