North End Zone project taking the next step

[Inhogswetrust]

Here's my point (and I do understand every seat is some kind of premium seat):

We are told that there is a large waiting list for such seats.  So, rip out (on either or both sides of the E or W stands, when you have enough to fill a side) the number of seats in 3 or four or five rows, that justifies a complete length of one side and install said premium-type seats.

The fans displaced can take a hike on the concourse if they want to roam the stadium all day doe fewer $s or they can pony up the new $ to sit in the premium seats. 

The seats displaced will make considerably more new revenue than what was lost with the old regular bench seats.

Then wine 'em and cheese 'em to their heart's content.

If anybody is wondering if I'm being a bit cynical, well you'd be right.  I think the regular fan needs to have a place in the stadium and it seems college football is systematically forcing the regular fan AWAY from the game day experience.

If that's what it's coming to, so be it, but I hate to see it.

I'm a regular fan and have season tickets in the SEZ outdoor club.

[BassinHawg]

If it looks like this it will be closed in.

If it's like this there is a lot of wasted space and it won't make it any louder.

If they are going to do they might as well do it right!

[KennyForAD]

Barnhill Arena was one of the greatest sports arenas of all time.  It isn't huge, but it is close to the court, it had students courtside, it was loud, vibrant, and awesome.  Bud Walton is great, but it doesn't have the magic that Barnhill had.  Other schools make sure to put students courtside, for the atmosphere.  We make sure old people are courtside ...for money.  Old folks support the program and Arkansas is different than other places in that the UofA is the only game in town.  Still, I think its a mistake to trade atmosphere for blue hairs.

Looking at the football renovation plans, I think we might be making a similar mistake.  Luxury suites are fine.  No problem.  But are we going to bowl off the north end zone without adding outdoor seating behind the end zone?  Not sure, but it seems so.  If so, I think it is, once again, sacrificing atmosphere to chase money, and a mistake. 

[ricepig]

Barnhill Arena was one of the greatest sports arenas of all time.  It isn't huge, but it is close to the court, it had students courtside, it was loud, vibrant, and awesome.  Bud Walton is great, but it doesn't have the magic that Barnhill had.  Other schools make sure to put students courtside, for the atmosphere.  We make sure old people are courtside ...for money.  Old folks support the program and Arkansas is different than other places in that the UofA is the only game in town.  Still, I think its a mistake to trade atmosphere for blue hairs.

Looking at the football renovation plans, I think we might be making a similar mistake.  Luxury suites are fine.  No problem.  But are we going to bowl off the north end zone without adding outdoor seating behind the end zone?  Not sure, but it seems so.  If so, I think it is, once again, sacrificing atmosphere to chase money, and a mistake. 

I think the club and Loge seating will be outdoors, but that's just a guess.

[KennyForAD]

I think the club and Loge seating will be outdoors, but that's just a guess.

What I want in the end zone is cheap seats.  Bleachers.  Rowdy fans.  Disruptive noisy fans.  Not wealthy old people.  But I care about atmosphere and what helps the team, not making gobs of money.

[ricepig]

What I want in the end zone is cheap seats.  Bleachers.  Rowdy fans.  Disruptive noisy fans.  Not wealthy old people.  But I care about atmosphere and what helps the team, not making gobs of money.

You wouldn't make a very good AD.

[factchecker]

Here's my point (and I do understand every seat is some kind of premium seat):

We are told that there is a large waiting list for such seats.  So, rip out (on either or both sides of the E or W stands, when you have enough to fill a side) the number of seats in 3 or four or five rows, that justifies a complete length of one side and install said premium-type seats.

The fans displaced can take a hike on the concourse if they want to roam the stadium all day doe fewer $s or they can pony up the new $ to sit in the premium seats. 

The seats displaced will make considerably more new revenue than what was lost with the old regular bench seats.

Then wine 'em and cheese 'em to their heart's content.

If anybody is wondering if I'm being a bit cynical, well you'd be right.  I think the regular fan needs to have a place in the stadium and it seems college football is systematically forcing the regular fan AWAY from the game day experience.

If that's what it's coming to, so be it, but I hate to see it.

I'm confused.

You seem to be mad because they are adding seats for the "wine and cheese" crowd.

Why?

They aren't taking seats away.  They are actually making more seats available while reducing the price of upper bowl tickets.  This will then make it easier for the "normal fan" to buy a ticket. 

If more "normal fans" are able to afford tickets why are you mad?  You should be happy that they are finding a way to bleed corporate sponsors and rich donors of money just so they can act like fat cats in a recliner and drink wine during a game.  Do you hate rich people?  Do you get mad when you see someone driving a better car than you?

I do have a shocker for you.  Not all rich people are snobbish jerks.  Not all club/box/suite patrons are sipping wine with their pinkies up.  I know plenty of diehard Razorback fans who busted their rump to get to their financial status.  Just because they are smart enough to save their money doesn't mean you should hate them.  I appreciate them, seeing that they choose to invest a large sum of money into our athletics program. 

Life is not fair.  Not everyone is born into a perfect financial background which affords them to spend freely.  However, this is America.  We don't live in a caste system.  You can work your way out of you problems or you can choose to make sacrifices in order to afford certain entertainment.  I am not rich at all, and I have to make sacrifices to pay for my season tickets.  This is life.

[opineonswine]

What I want in the end zone is cheap seats.  Bleachers.  Rowdy fans.  Disruptive noisy fans.  Not wealthy old people.  But I care about atmosphere and what helps the team, not making gobs of money.

That is called reverse snobbery.

[KennyForAD]

You wouldn't make a very good AD.

True.  But Kenny will!

[ricepig]

True.  But Kenny will!

No doubt.

[KennyForAD]

I'm confused.

You seem to be mad because they are adding seats for the "wine and cheese" crowd.

Why?

They aren't taking seats away.  They are actually making more seats available while reducing the price of upper bowl tickets.  This will then make it easier for the "normal fan" to buy a ticket. 

If more "normal fans" are able to afford tickets why are you mad?  You should be happy that they are finding a way to bleed corporate sponsors and rich donors of money just so they can act like fat cats in a recliner and drink wine during a game.  Do you hate rich people?  Do you get mad when you see someone driving a better car than you?

I do have a shocker for you.  Not all rich people are snobbish jerks.  Not all club/box/suite patrons are sipping wine with their pinkies up.  I know plenty of diehard Razorback fans who busted their rump to get to their financial status.  Just because they are smart enough to save their money doesn't mean you should hate them.  I appreciate them, seeing that they choose to invest a large sum of money into our athletics program. 

Life is not fair.  Not everyone is born into a perfect financial background which affords them to spend freely.  However, this is America.  We don't live in a caste system.  You can work your way out of you problems or you can choose to make sacrifices in order to afford certain entertainment.  I am not rich at all, and I have to make sacrifices to pay for my season tickets.  This is life.

Wow.  How on Earth could someone jump to those conclusions from what I wrote?  First, I'm not angry, or mad.  And, uh... I have nothing against wealthy people, or old people.  I might actually qualify as one or both...  I just like a rowdy atmosphere at football and basketball games.  Texas stadium was WAY better than Jerry World, for example.  Barnhill was WAY better than Bud Walton.   I understand the need to satisfy blue hairs, and the money grubbing.  Just how it is.  Just don't want the game experience and atmosphere to be less important to them than money grubbing.

NOTE:  I referenced the glory days of Barnhill Arena, and you assumed that I am not old...   Do you ever think about the things that you think about?

[KennyForAD]

That is called reverse snobbery.

-sigh-  Nope.  But I'm confident that this is called.. jumping to conclusions.

Then again, maybe you're right.  I definitely don't like snobs.  Nothing against the elderly, or the wealthy... but screw the snobs.

[factchecker]

Wow.  How on Earth could someone jump to those conclusions from what I wrote?  First, I'm not angry, or mad.  And, uh... I have nothing against wealthy people, or old people.  I might actually qualify as one or both...  I just like a rowdy atmosphere at football and basketball games.  Texas stadium was WAY better than Jerry World, for example.  Barnhill was WAY better than Bud Walton.   I understand the need to satisfy blue hairs, and the money grubbing.  Just how it is.  Just don't want the game experience and atmosphere to be less important to them than money grubbing.

NOTE:  I referenced the glory days of Barnhill Arena, and you assumed that I am not old...   Do you ever think about the things that you think about?

who the heck are you talking to?  Look to who I quoted!

edit: we cool!

[KennyForAD]

who the heck are you talking to?  Look to who I quoted!

??

Hahaha!  I am so sorry.  My mistake.  LMAO at myself...  Now I understand how you 'misunderstood' what 'I' was saying.   Sheeez. 

[DLUXHOG]

Wow.  How on Earth could someone jump to those conclusions from what I wrote?  First, I'm not angry, or mad.  And, uh... I have nothing against wealthy people, or old people.  I might actually qualify as one or both...  I just like a rowdy atmosphere at football and basketball games.  Texas stadium was WAY better than Jerry World, for example.  Barnhill was WAY better than Bud Walton.   I understand the need to satisfy blue hairs, and the money grubbing.  Just how it is.  Just don't want the game experience and atmosphere to be less important to them than money grubbing.

I disagree with this thought as I was a season ticket holder for 20+ years at Texas stadium.  It was a milk toast crowd until Jerry bought the team and allowed beer sales for the first time......

[factchecker]

Hahaha!  I am so sorry.  My mistake.  LMAO at myself...

It's cool.  I kinda agree with your sentiments.  I think instead of putting the loge/box/suites in the endzone they could build a really nice indoor complex with a bar and multiple big screens where the current student tents are located. (South End Zone/ former green bleachers).  Put the rowdiest diehard students around the hog pen and in the north end zone bleachers. 

I also wonder what the band would sound like playing from that end.

[factchecker]

I also have a question. 

Is there a rule against providing luxury boxes for a player's family or for recruits on official visits?

That could be something to think about.

[KennyForAD]

I disagree with this thought as I was a season ticket holder for 20+ years at Texas stadium.  It was a milk toast crowd until Jerry bought the team and allowed beer sales for the first time......

True.  But it was GREAT in early nineties.  The opener against the giants in 92 was as loud and rowdy as it gets.   They have no home field advantage now.  Giant screens and all the nonsense.  The crowd is not rowdy at all.  In Dallas we call it, "The cocaine and boob job set."  Stars fans.

[Hoggish1]

Record attendance at RRS is close to 77k, I believe.  This will get big games well over 80k and it'll be louder than 100k. 

How do you know this and why do you say it...?

[DLUXHOG]

True.  But it was GREAT in early nineties.  The opener against the giants in 92 was as loud and rowdy as it gets.   They have no home field advantage now.  Giant screens and all the nonsense.  The crowd is not rowdy at all.  In Dallas we call it, "The cocaine and boob job set."  Stars fans.

Yes, and this was when the Cowboys won 3 out of 4 consecutive Super Bowls (and I had great 45 yd seats to see a truly great team).  I don't know if it was the beer finally being allowed to be sold in the stadium or whether it was that the Cowboys were such a great team, that drove the fans rabid......

[Atlhogfan1]

Here's my point (and I do understand every seat is some kind of premium seat):

We are told that there is a large waiting list for such seats.  So, rip out (on either or both sides of the E or W stands, when you have enough to fill a side) the number of seats in 3 or four or five rows, that justifies a complete length of one side and install said premium-type seats.

The fans displaced can take a hike on the concourse if they want to roam the stadium all day doe fewer $s or they can pony up the new $ to sit in the premium seats. 

The seats displaced will make considerably more new revenue than what was lost with the old regular bench seats.

Then wine 'em and cheese 'em to their heart's content.

If anybody is wondering if I'm being a bit cynical, well you'd be right.  I think the regular fan needs to have a place in the stadium and it seems college football is systematically forcing the regular fan AWAY from the game day experience.

If that's what it's coming to, so be it, but I hate to see it.

The regular fan wants an enhanced experience more often.  Competing with the comfort of watching it from home. 

As far as the noise, it won't hurt the environment and may help.  The only drawback in some of the isolationists' eyes will be some of the corporate money will draw some non-Arkansas fans into those new seats. 

[Hoggish1]

Barnhill Arena was one of the greatest sports arenas of all time.  It isn't huge, but it is close to the court, it had students courtside, it was loud, vibrant, and awesome.  Bud Walton is great, but it doesn't have the magic that Barnhill had.  Other schools make sure to put students courtside, for the atmosphere.  We make sure old people are courtside ...for money.  Old folks support the program and Arkansas is different than other places in that the UofA is the only game in town.  Still, I think its a mistake to trade atmosphere for blue hairs.

Looking at the football renovation plans, I think we might be making a similar mistake.  Luxury suites are fine.  No problem.  But are we going to bowl off the north end zone without adding outdoor seating behind the end zone?  Not sure, but it seems so.  If so, I think it is, once again, sacrificing atmosphere to chase money, and a mistake. 

[Hoggish1]

What I want in the end zone is cheap seats.  Bleachers.  Rowdy fans.  Disruptive noisy fans.  Not wealthy old people.  But I care about atmosphere and what helps the team, not making gobs of money.

[factchecker]

I understand the sentiment of wanting the craziest, loudest fans near the field.  It creates atmosphere and intimidation.  It's frustrating watching a major event like the Super Bowl or Stanley Cup Finals and see celebrities who couldn't name a starter sit in the front row not paying attention to the game. 

My wife hates what she calls "Instagram fans." I had to explain to her that some people show up to take selfies and pictures with their phones and leave at halftime.  It's just part of today's society.  Go to a concert and you will see the same. I remember going to Ozzfest back in the late 90s and it was a blast.  Now most concerts are just people holding their phones up.

[KennyForAD]

I probably came off as more radical on the issue than I am.  I understand the trend toward club seating, etc.  Just how it is.  But, there was a day when our fans were looked upon like Jets or Eagles fans.  I have a friend who played for Texas back in the day.  He says Razorback Stadium and Little Rock were places that you didn't take your helmet off on the sidelines.  Haha.  I'm not for throwing whiskey bottles at the other team, but I do like the rowdiness.  We have lost that in Bud Walton, and I'd like to have it back, there and in RRS.   Maybe its just 'good ol day syndrome.'  I don't know.   

[Atlhogfan1]

Hog fans aren't demanding more bleacher seats.  Hunting season takes priority over the last few home dates.  If it were up to those good with bleacher seats then there wouldn't be expansion and we could keep looking at that badly outdated Broyles Center with the car dealership look at field level. 

The seating will be outdoor.

[Hoggish1]

I'm confused.

You seem to be mad because they are adding seats for the "wine and cheese" crowd.

Life is not fair.    This is life.

You are right about life not being fair. 

I want a game day experience for the team, not a wine and cheese event for those with great sums of $.

I have nothing against $.  I just want a great event for the players while not pricing the regular fan out of the game day experience...

[Hoggish1]

who the heck are you talking to?  Look to who I quoted!

edit: we cool!

Ha, ha, ha.  No we not cool...

[LZH]

Kind of off topic, but every time I see a thread about "North End Zone", I immediately think of when I was a kid and WMS.  That's where our tickets were, about 20 rows up and right between the uprights of the goalpost. 

Before we had all 11 seats 'consolidated' in the late 80's, us kids said in the exact same place in the South endzone unknowingly looking right at you.... Mom and Dad and my big brothers got the sideline seats.

[Hoggish1]

I also have a question. 

Is there a rule against providing luxury boxes for a player's family or for recruits on official visits?

That could be something to think about.

No.  And LSU already does that...LMAO!

[factchecker]

It's part of being a fan.  We are passionate about the Razorbacks so we have strong opinions about what they should or should not do.  My two biggest gripes are parking (lack thereof) , and the in-game commercials/ dj music

Someone needs to let the PA announcer and DJ in on when we are trying to do our Arkansas------ Razorbacks side to side stadium cheer.  When that thing gets going it can be impressive.  Problem is that the fans can't overpower the stadium speakers and they are too busy pumping commercials or someone's mixtape.  Let the band and fans make the atmosphere.  Once again it becomes a money issue. 

[Dr Swineglove]

Barnhill Arena was one of the greatest sports arenas of all time.  It isn't huge, but it is close to the court, it had students courtside, it was loud, vibrant, and awesome.  Bud Walton is great, but it doesn't have the magic that Barnhill had.  Other schools make sure to put students courtside, for the atmosphere.  We make sure old people are courtside ...for money.  Old folks support the program and Arkansas is different than other places in that the UofA is the only game in town.  Still, I think its a mistake to trade atmosphere for blue hairs.

Looking at the football renovation plans, I think we might be making a similar mistake.  Luxury suites are fine.  No problem.  But are we going to bowl off the north end zone without adding outdoor seating behind the end zone?  Not sure, but it seems so.  If so, I think it is, once again, sacrificing atmosphere to chase money, and a mistake. 

The Razorbacks had good to great teams for most of the Barnhill era.  Most of the teams we've had at BWA have been throughly mediocre.  The atmosphere has very little to do with the building and a whole lot to do with caliber of teams.  Barnhill was a terrible building; we wouldn't remember it fondly if not for the good teams.  Conversely, the first few seasons at BWA were magical. 

The challenge any venue faces is that more and more games are on TV and the views on TV are superior to most views from the stadium, while tickets have gotten vastly more expensive, greatly exceeding the cost of inflation.  Put simply, fans have better, cheaper options than to attend games.  If the trend continues, games in the future will be played on soundstages, surrounded by nothing but luxury seats filled by people with money to burn and the will to do so.

[ArkansasI]

I've been attending games a long time. The north endzone addition looks great and will further reduce the garage feel that the Broyles Complex created when it was built.

However, without question the athletic department should figure out a way to improve the west concourse area. It's narrow and congested. In a word, terrible.

The best money spent would be on a beautiful pavilion that spans across Razorback Road. I'm shocked that this has not been discussed. It would enhance the game day experience for half the stadium and drive concession sales.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Closing in the North end zone, regardless of the type of seats added, will 'complete' the stadium and dramatically improve the feel and the look to the stadium.

Basically, the South end zone is alive and vibrant, the North is dead. There's no atmosphere down there. Why do you think Auburn chose to play on that end in the overtime?

Not to mention the aesthetics of filling in the missing pieces of the stadium.

Do it.

[opineonswine]

Closing in the North end zone, regardless of the type of seats added, will 'complete' the stadium and dramatically improve the feel and the look to the stadium.

Basically, the South end zone is alive and vibrant, the North is dead. There's no atmosphere down there. Why do you think Auburn chose to play on that end in the overtime?

Not to mention the aesthetics of filling in the missing pieces of the stadium.

Do it.

[ImHogginIt]

And there was also this:   "Reducing prices in the upper level of the stadium and providing a lower priced standing room only ticket will give every Arkansan an opportunity to cheer on the Hogs."

Will ticket prices go up elsewhere, more than likely, it's probably time for a slight uptick in prices.

Instead of standing room only on top of the South end they should put the bleachers back up, only a little more sturdy, and and sell them for $15-$20. If folks can't afford that then they are people who didn't really want to come anyway as they prefer to bitch about not having affordable tickets on social media instead of attending games.

[ImHogginIt]

I'm surprised by some of the comments I saw elsewhere ( Facebook, twitter ) from people who think taxpayers will pay for this. The level of ignorance some people have on issues is amazing 

[factchecker]

I'm surprised by some of the comments I saw elsewhere ( Facebook, twitter ) from people who think taxpayers will pay for this. The level of ignorance some people have on issues is amazing 

I just read the comments from Facebook and you are right.

What a sad show of ignorance.

One guy blamed the stadium improvement for Wal-Mart laying off workers!?!?!!  What? 

There was an abundance of whiners complaining that athletics steals money from students and that more money should go towards education.  Do they not realize that the athletic department just built a 26.5 million dollar academic building for the University:

University of Arkansas academic and athletic leaders together dedicated Champions Hall, the first new classroom building on campus since 2007, in a ribbon cutting ceremony at 10 a.m. Tuesday, Sept. 15.

The 62,000-square-foot structure cost $26.5 million to build and equip. A significant amount of the funding was made possible by the U of A Athletics Department, which committed a portion of the university's annual share of Southeastern Conference revenues to the project. Those funds will be used to pay off approximately $18 million in bonds that were issued to build the Champions Hall.

"Our growing student population here at the University of Arkansas made a new building for classrooms absolutely essential," said interim Chancellor Dan Ferritor. "But every new building on campus presents a funding challenge, and it was the support of the Athletics Department that made this building possible. That's why it's named Champions Hall — to honor our athletic champions and the ways our athletics department gives back to this university."

The four-story building houses nine general purpose classrooms, 12 biology labs, and the Math Resource and Teaching Center. The center includes a testing center, office space for many of the math teaching faculty and a teaching center where students can study and get help with mathematics. Nearly all U of A undergraduates are required to take introductory math and biology classes to meet core curriculum requirements. An estimated 8,000 students will take math classes in Champions Hall this semester, with another 3,000 students using the biology labs. An additional 2,700 students will use the general purpose classrooms.

http://news.uark.edu/articles/32294/champions-hall-newest-classroom-building-on-campus-officially-open

[ricepig]

Instead of standing room only on top of the South end they should put the bleachers back up, only a little more sturdy, and and sell them for $15-$20. If folks can't afford that then they are people who didn't really want to come anyway as they prefer to bitch about not having affordable tickets on social media instead of attending games.

I think they are holding off on the top of the south end zone as the last bit of "expansion", I do agree on permanent seats up there eventually. As to the one's  who bitch about cost, I think the vast majority would still bitch if given free tickets.

[ricepig]

I'm surprised by some of the comments I saw elsewhere ( Facebook, twitter ) from people who think taxpayers will pay for this. The level of ignorance some people have on issues is amazing 

Really, you were surprised??? Not me, the level of stupidity shown by the uneducated and misinformed never surprises me.

[Supermark101]

If it looks like this it will be closed in.


If it's like this there is a lot of wasted space and it won't make it any louder.

If they are going to do they might as well do it right!

How is it any different than this



There is just standing room instead of seats.

[ImHogginIt]

Really, you were surprised??? Not me, the level of stupidity shown by the uneducated and misinformed never surprises me.

Actually I'm not surprised but it sounds better when I write it that way 

[opineonswine]

I just read the comments from Facebook and you are right.

What a sad show of ignorance.

One guy blamed the stadium improvement for Wal-Mart laying off workers!?!?!!  What? 

There was an abundance of whiners complaining that athletics steals money from students and that more money should go towards education.  Do they not realize that the athletic department just built a 26.5 million dollar academic building for the University:

 

http://news.uark.edu/articles/32294/champions-hall-newest-classroom-building-on-campus-officially-open

No they have no clue about that or very little else. We need a program to stamp out
ignorance.

[Supermark101]

No they have no clue about that or very little else. We need a program to stamp out
ignorance.

While I agree with factchecker, Using the new building is not a good example because it is only for athletes to use. Our program is totally self sustaining and takes nothing away from the academic side. The department often donates to the education side. That is light years ahead of a lot of schools.

[hobhog]

I like the idea of adding another screen on the other side and then sell space for tailgaters.

This. Show other SEC games or GameDay until hour before kickoff.

[FraggleHog]

Well, you will have to wait for those 5000 additional seats.......

That 75K+ number doesn't include SRO tix, correct?

[DLUXHOG]

This was in a side note in the Dallas Morning News sports section this morning as supposedly being submitted to BOT for approval of a $160MM renovation.

[ricepig]

This was in a side note in the Dallas Morning News sports section this morning as supposedly being submitted to BOT for approval of a $160MM renovation.

Again, read the proposal for yourself, it's on page 122 of the Board agenda.
http://www.uasys.edu/leadership/board-of-trustees/meetings/

[ricepig]

That 75K+ number doesn't include SRO tix, correct?

Correct

[ricepig]

While I agree with factchecker, Using the new building is not a good example because it is only for athletes to use. Our program is totally self sustaining and takes nothing away from the academic side. The department often donates to the education side. That is light years ahead of a lot of schools.

Incorrect, Champions Hall is for all university students. You are confusing it with the Jones SAC, which is for our 435 student athletes.