If there was a BCS title in 1964, would Arkansas have beaten Alabama?

[LZH]

I can say for a fact that Bama doesn't even question it at all.  It's just matter of fact to them that they won the NC that season, and they think it's comical that Arkansas makes any claim to it.  Seriously...that's their attitude.  To them...it's black and white. 

I think at times our fans don't understand how smug Bama fans are.  I keep hearing about how well they were treated in Tuscaloosa and how their fans get a bad rep, but I'm not sure that they realize that at least half of that comes from the angle of disguised patronizing.  They're nice, because they don't perceive a threat.  We beat them a few times...and then I'd like to hear our fans' viewpoints.   

Bama's argument is that bowl games were just exhibitions back then, and the evidence is that Notre Dame didn't even participate in bowl games.  I think it was the following season that the bowl games were taken into consideration prior to the AP vote, correct?   

We have every right to proclaim that we were the best team that year, but there are lots of years when other teams could make that claim to the "mythical" championship.  I can GUARANTEE you that if Bama were in our shoes in '78, they'd have a NC banner somewhere on campus for it. 

I don't think it's a big deal, and I have no issue with Arkansas claiming it, because Bama claims it in some years that are outlandish.     

I simply asked the question of how our using the football writers championship is any different than Alabama using, say, Sports Illustrated to add to their championship list.  It didn't go well.

For what it's worth, we were named champions in the 1977 season by someone, I just don't remember who....a magazine, or some reporters organization maybe?

[Iwastherein1969]

I simply asked the question of how our using the football writers championship is any different than Alabama using, say, Sports Illustrated to add to their championship list.  It didn't go well.

For what it's worth, we were named champions in the 1977 season by someone, I just don't remember who....a magazine, or some reporters organization maybe?

more than one....and I still say that '77 team was the greatest of all time...if not for #20 in burnt orange who refused to give in at Fayetteville...that Hog team easily cruises to the National Championship....if they had been undefeated after the regular season they would have drawn Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl...Notre Dame easily beat Texas but Texas didn't have the fast defense we had...we would have shut down the Irish and went 13-0 that year...its just one of those things you know in your soul...by the way Lou Holtz got all the credit, but that team was the last great recruiting class of one James Frank Broyles

[urkillnmesmalls]

I simply asked the question of how our using the football writers championship is any different than Alabama using, say, Sports Illustrated to add to their championship list.  It didn't go well.

For what it's worth, we were named champions in the 1977 season by someone, I just don't remember who....a magazine, or some reporters organization maybe?

For what it's worth, when the TV announcers always allude to us as having one NC in 1964, that's good enough for me!

I loved that '77 team, and I'm with the poster above who said it may have been our best team ever.  I don't remember all of what led to the loss to Texas, but I was old enough to remember my father and I watching it, and him cussing for most of the game.  Texas was our Newman MANY times, and the younger fans still wonder why the older fans despise them.  You couldn't NOT despise them and be a Hog fan!

Lot's of glorious times as Hog fans, but none were better than that '78 Orange Bowl against the Sooners.  My father was so convinced that they were going to storm back and beat us, that he refused to let himself have any joy.  With every TD, he just kept calm saying, "It's not over."  I just remember being on cloud nine, and even though I was all of 9 years old at the time, I remember it like it was yesterday.  :razorback:   

[redeye]

But, to your point (and, actually, to mine as well!), that's one of the reasons I get SO chapped when today's fans (30-40 year olds) try and lecture ME about the "illegitimacy" of our 1964 Championship.  "After all" they will tell me "the final AP poll has Bama #1".

Yes, it does.  But it also took place before ALL the games were played.  And - as noted - there is NO official championship (well, TODAY there is; but not back then).  ALL championships were "mythical" and the ones we won were as valid as the AP and UPI.  But out CLAIM was even better, because we (1) were the ONLY team to finish undefeated and untied that year; and (2) Alabama's only loss came to Texas, a team we beat at their place (and THEIR only loss of the season).

So our MYTHICAL claim is 100% valid.

Completely agree.

Also worth noting that the AP poll is only used for past years out of convenience and not because it was "the only poll that mattered", as you'll often hear today.  For all practical purposes, we actually still have a mythical national champion today, because the NCAA still doesn't crown a FBS champion, at least to my understanding.  The difference is that we now have a system for narrowing it down to one, so most don't consider it mythical any longer.

The BCS was supposed to do this, but then the AP and FWAA named USC their champion in 2003, even though LSU won the BCS title game.  Yet, I'm sure plenty of college football historians will list both USC and LSU as co-champions for 2003, while failing to recognize Arkansas in 1964.  Interestingly, I looked at the old cfbdatawarehouse website and it lists around 2-3X as many selectors naming Arkansas the '64 champion, then it does for Alabama, but some still think the AP is all that matters.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/yearly_results.php?year=1964

And I realize you know all this Wiz, so it's not for you.

[redeye]

I simply asked the question of how our using the football writers championship is any different than Alabama using, say, Sports Illustrated to add to their championship list.  It didn't go well.

For what it's worth, we were named champions in the 1977 season by someone, I just don't remember who....a magazine, or some reporters organization maybe?

It was the Rothman (FACT), which was a selector from 1968-2006 that used math to determine the true champion.  It's not recognized by the NCAA, but some schools may still claim it (I'm not sure).  IIRC, A&M and Auburn both claimed retroactive titles recently and those are worse, imo.

[LZH]

For what it's worth, when the TV announcers always allude to us as having one NC in 1964, that's good enough for me!

I loved that '77 team, and I'm with the poster above who said it may have been our best team ever.  I don't remember all of what led to the loss to Texas, but I was old enough to remember my father and I watching it, and him cussing for most of the game.  Texas was our Newman MANY times, and the younger fans still wonder why the older fans despise them.  You couldn't NOT despise them and be a Hog fan!

Lot's of glorious times as Hog fans, but none were better than that '78 Orange Bowl against the Sooners.  My father was so convinced that they were going to storm back and beat us, that he refused to let himself have any joy.  With every TD, he just kept calm saying, "It's not over."  I just remember being on cloud nine, and even though I was all of 9 years old at the time, I remember it like it was yesterday.  :razorback:   

The Texas game that year hinged on a no call when Ron Calcagni got yanked down by his face mask inside the Texas 10 yard line. It was blatant, and totally obvious. But, we had to kick a field goal instead of a first and goal, and that wound end up being the difference in the game.

It was the Rothman (FACT), which was a selector from 1968-2006 that used math to determine the true champion.  It's not recognized by the NCAA, but some schools may still claim it (I'm not sure).  IIRC, A&M and Auburn both claimed retroactive titles recently and those are worse, imo.

Good memory.

[redeye]

But thats why ideally i want a playoff with all conference champions and few at larges. 16 teams.
Its a true FBS playoff when all conferences are represented. Those autobids also neutralize opinion and bias. With the atlarges, they would be top 10 teams that would likely play in new years bowls.

That's arguably better, but as Kenny pointed out, he doesn't consider Villanova the best team in 1985, even though they beat Georgetown in the national championship game.  If his numbers are accurate, and I suspect they are, then Villanova was 1-3 against Georgetown in '85, but they won the game that counted most.  So tournaments still leave room for much debate.

I don't have a problem with the playoff, but a tournament isn't a cure-all.  Part of what makes college football fun is all the debate and fans are slow to realize this.  I think the same goes for baseball, where some hope to one day see a laser guided strikezone.  But it's all the debate that drives sports media and fandom, so why would you remove that facet?

[redeye]

The Texas game that year hinged on a no call when Ron Calcagni got yanked down by his face mask inside the Texas 10 yard line. It was blatant, and totally obvious. But, we had to kick a field goal instead of a first and goal, and that wound end up being the difference in the game.

Good memory.

Well, my memory did help me remember how to look it up... 

I knew where to find it and it only took a sec, but my memory ain't that great.   

[LZH]

Well, my memory did help me remember how to look it up... 

I knew where to find it and it only took a sec, but my memory ain't that great.   

Welp, that's like a three point shot off of the glass. It still counts the same lol.

[redeye]

Welp, that's like a three point shot off of the glass. It still counts the same lol.

Counts either way, doesn't it?

Btw, I was just looking at it again and we actually shared the Rothman (FACT) title with Texas in '77.   

[LZH]

Counts either way, doesn't it?

Btw, I was just looking at it again and we actually shared the Rothman (FACT) title with Texas in '77.   

Ha! Damn sure does.

And as for sharing an imaginary title with Texas, go figure. They got cornholed by Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl. Score another undeserved victory for Texas.

[KennyForAD]

The Texas game that year hinged on a no call when Ron Calcagni got yanked down by his face mask inside the Texas 10 yard line. It was blatant, and totally obvious. But, we had to kick a field goal instead of a first and goal, and that wound end up being the difference in the game.

Good memory.

There was a great picture of it in the paper the next day.  Ref staring right at Calgagni being flipped by the facemask.  No flag...

[KennyForAD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8jWTIqu6g

[LZH]

Nice find Kenny. I was right in front of the television in my pj's soaking in every minute.

And I am glad someone else remembers the face mask no call.

[DLUXHOG]

That defense played "violent" (as Dan Hampton might say)...... and I loved the broadcast statement "that's only the second time all year that Arkansas' defense has allowed a score through the air".....

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I loved that '77 team, and I'm with the poster above who said it may have been our best team ever.  I don't remember all of what led to the loss to Texas, but I was old enough to remember my father and I watching it, and him cussing for most of the game.  Texas was our Newman MANY times, and the younger fans still wonder why the older fans despise them.  You couldn't NOT despise them and be a Hog fan!

Lot's of glorious times as Hog fans, but none were better than that '78 Orange Bowl against the Sooners.  My father was so convinced that they were going to storm back and beat us, that he refused to let himself have any joy.  With every TD, he just kept calm saying, "It's not over."  I just remember being on cloud nine, and even though I was all of 9 years old at the time, I remember it like it was yesterday.  :razorback:   

I was 17 that year; a high school junior.  We were season ticket holders for the Little Rock games but rarely went to a Fayetteville game because of the expense, the drive, often the weather, etc.  But that year, because Holtz had my dad so amped up, we drove to Fayetteville for the Texas game.  It was one of those games that just ripped your heart out.  We outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters -- including Little's 67 yarder that I'll never forget -- only to allow that 4th quarter drive.  Gosh, how many times have we said that over the years?

We went to the Orange Bowl that year too.  Sat on the top row of the lower deck.  We had a family friend from Carlisle that was a strong safety on that team, so that was extra incentive for us to get tickets and go.  Possibly the most sustained excitement at a Hog game I've ever experienced.  From opening drive (a fumble by OU) to final gun, we were delirious.

[Theolesnort]

Just a question i like to ask among both sides. What do guys think?

Yep more than likely they would have beaten Bama. Someone said Bama had a big advantage at QB. That is so far from the truth it is ridiculous. It is true they had Joe Namath but this was a seriously reduced Namath who was playing on a knee that was terribly damaged, so much so that he should not have been playing. Right at the first Texas jumped on Bama and was smoking them bad when Darrell Royal called off the dogs and started treating a immobile Namath like royalty never following through with tackling him to the ground in a violent way. Namath gained confidence because he knew they were not out to hurt him and knock him out of the game. Later on Darrell Royal admitted his mistake and that it almost cost him the game. Good sportsmanship? Well I reckon so but it was Alabama's responsibility to protect Namath and not Texas's. It was clear to all that Texas could have put Namath out of the game at any time if they had chosen to go that route. That knee was so bad that it hampered Namath all though his pro career and very likely kept him from being in the conversation as being one of the all time greats. Getting back to Ark, with a natty on the line I could not see Frank Broyles being as nice to a injured Namath as was Royal. What Royal did was inexplicable to me.

[urkillnmesmalls]

I was 17 that year; a high school junior.  We were season ticket holders for the Little Rock games but rarely went to a Fayetteville game because of the expense, the drive, often the weather, etc.  But that year, because Holtz had my dad so amped up, we drove to Fayetteville for the Texas game.  It was one of those games that just ripped your heart out.  We outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters -- including Little's 67 yarder that I'll never forget -- only to allow that 4th quarter drive.  Gosh, how many times have we said that over the years?

We went to the Orange Bowl that year too.  Sat on the top row of the lower deck.  We had a family friend from Carlisle that was a strong safety on that team, so that was extra incentive for us to get tickets and go.  Possibly the most sustained excitement at a Hog game I've ever experienced.  From opening drive (a fumble by OU) to final gun, we were delirious.

I can't imagine being at the Orange Bowl.  That had to be spectacular!  My memories of Texas games were exactly as you described.  We'd lose right at the end on a field goal or fluke TD.  I think a lot of that was that we always played over our heads, and at the end their size caught up to us and we couldn't hold up.  Similar to what happened vs Bama in 2010 when we had 'em whipped. 

At any rate...great story, and thanks for sharing!  Woo Pig!   :razorback:

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I can't imagine being at the Orange Bowl.  That had to be spectacular!

It was.  Well, except for a little known fact to most Arkansans.  The Orange Bowl Stadium was in one of the worst parts of Miami.  We were warned numerous times before the game to walk in groups and don't stop to talk to people.  There were about 8 of us traveling together (our family and two others), and as soon as we parked the car the dads were like, "Okay kids, hold hands with your moms or dads and stay together."  I remember being kinda scared the whole walk to the stadium.  Funny though, I don't remember being scared at all on the way back to the car after the game.   

[WizardofhOgZ]

It was.  Well, except for a little known fact to most Arkansans.  The Orange Bowl Stadium was in one of the worst parts of Miami.  We were warned numerous times before the game to walk in groups and don't stop to talk to people.  There were about 8 of us traveling together (our family and two others), and as soon as we parked the car the dads were like, "Okay kids, hold hands with your moms or dads and stay together."  I remember being kinda scared the whole walk to the stadium.  Funny though, I don't remember being scared at all on the way back to the car after the game.   

This is the old Orange Bowl (not Joe Robbie Stadium, which they use today) you are talking about.  Reminds me of the neighborhood around the old Cotton Bowl.  But, at least, there are some large parking lots inside the fair grounds that are reasonably secure.  Wouldn't want to park outside the gates, however - especially at night.

[Tejano Jawg]

The Texas game that year hinged on a no call when Ron Calcagni got yanked down by his face mask inside the Texas 10 yard line. It was blatant, and totally obvious. But, we had to kick a field goal instead of a first and goal, and that wound end up being the difference in the game.

A few months ago I saw this game—thank you Longhorn Network —I froze the TV and got a screen shot of this. I didn't get around to posting it. I'll find it somewhere. As I recall, in the shot, there's a ref looking straight at it.

But you're right, that one (no)call might have cost us the National Championship.

[Huds_HawgTide]

Yes Ark #2 beat texas#1 then bama became number #1 and Texas beat bama pretty well

[DLUXHOG]

A few months ago I saw this game—thank you Longhorn Network —I froze the TV and got a screen shot of this. I didn't get around to posting it. I'll find it somewhere. As I recall, in the shot, there's a ref looking straight at it.

But you're right, that one (no)call might have cost us the National Championship.

Let's see....
#1 Notre Dame was 11-1 and their loss (and ND was ranked #3 at the time of this game) was to an unranked Old Miss team, and Old Miss was not ranked at all at the end of the season (ND beat a worn out Texas team ranked #1 at the time badly in the Cotton Bowl - Notre Dame averaged 35.0 points per game and their opponents averaged 19.9 points per game)

#2 Alabama was also 11-1 and their loss was to unranked Nebraska, ranked #12 at the end of the season (Alabama beat #9, Ohio State badly in the Sugar Bowl - Alabama averaged 31.7 points per game and their opponents averaged 11.6 points per game)

#3 Arkansas was 11-1 and their loss, as the #8 team in the country, was to #2 ranked Texas by only 4 points (Texas came in at #4 at the year end and we badly beat #2 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl - Arkansas averaged 32.4 points per game and their opponents averaged 8.4 points per game)

I don't see the loss to Texas as costing us the NC, but rather I believe that "rabid homerism" from media and coaches (or whoever was voting back then) couldn't fairly evaluate the scenario...  simply put, it was obviously a beauty contest and we lost out....   Possibly Notre Dame could be justified to get the NC that year, however, we should have edged out Alabama definitely and for sure.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Let's see....
#1 Notre Dame was 11-1 and their loss (and ND was ranked #3 at the time of this game) was to an unranked Old Miss team, and Old Miss was not ranked at all at the end of the season (ND beat a worn out Texas team ranked #1 at the time badly in the Cotton Bowl - Notre Dame averaged 35.0 points per game and their opponents averaged 19.9 points per game)

#2 Alabama was also 11-1 and their loss was to unranked Nebraska, ranked #12 at the end of the season (Alabama beat #9, Ohio State badly in the Sugar Bowl - Alabama averaged 31.7 points per game and their opponents averaged 11.6 points per game)

#3 Arkansas was 11-1 and their loss, as the #8 team in the country, was to #2 ranked Texas by only 4 points (Texas came in at #4 at the year end and we badly beat #2 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl - Arkansas averaged 32.4 points per game and their opponents averaged 8.4 points per game)

I don't see the loss to Texas as costing us the NC, but rather I believe that "rabid homerism" from media and coaches (or whoever was voting back then) couldn't fairly evaluate the scenario...  simply put, it was obviously a beauty contest and we lost out....   Possibly Notre Dame could be justified to get the NC that year, however, we should have edged out Alabama definitely and for sure.

Every time I hear that argument, it just furthers my opinion that we deserved at least a share if not the outright title.  But...just like many other seasons, the Texas vs Arkansas game typically served to eliminate one or the other, so it seems we were just discounted immediately even though we lost to BY FAR the best team comparatively, versus the other two. 

For awhile the Bama vs LSU rivalry seemed to be shaping up that way, until they played each other for the second time in the NC game and Bama had a force field up at midfield that LSU couldn't cross.      I don't think LSU has beaten them since have they?   

[DLUXHOG]

Every time I hear that argument, it just furthers my opinion that we deserved at least a share if not the outright title.  But...just like many other seasons, the Texas vs Arkansas game typically served to eliminate one or the other, so it seems we were just discounted immediately even though we lost to BY FAR the best team comparatively, versus the other two. 

For awhile the Bama vs LSU rivalry seemed to be shaping up that way, until they played each other for the second time in the NC game and Bama had a force field up at midfield that LSU couldn't cross.      I don't think LSU has beaten them since have they?   

We definitely had the better defense by the numbers than either one of the two above us...........

[urkillnmesmalls]

We definitely had the better defense by the numbers than either one of the two above us...........

We have to get there, and prove we can get it done.  That's just how it is.  Back in the 2011 season when we played LSU late in the year, if we had won that game I don't believe for one second that we would have gotten to play Alabama for the NC.  LSU got in there by virtue of having beaten Bama, but mostly based on their recent reputation.  Hey...that's part of reality. Any, "Yeah, but we beat LSU who beat Bama" stories would have fallen on deaf ears. 

It's great to look back and wish for what could have happened, but that's so long ago that it's not even thought of as the "modern era" any longer by many.  Back then you recruited the kids in your state, and maybe a state over, and you just hoped your surrounding area produced superior talent.  Times have changed dramatically. 

[rickm1976]

For what it's worth, when the TV announcers always allude to us as having one NC in 1964, that's good enough for me!

I loved that '77 team, and I'm with the poster above who said it may have been our best team ever.  I don't remember all of what led to the loss to Texas, but I was old enough to remember my father and I watching it, and him cussing for most of the game.  Texas was our Newman MANY times, and the younger fans still wonder why the older fans despise them.  You couldn't NOT despise them and be a Hog fan!

Lot's of glorious times as Hog fans, but none were better than that '78 Orange Bowl against the Sooners.  My father was so convinced that they were going to storm back and beat us, that he refused to let himself have any joy.  With every TD, he just kept calm saying, "It's not over."  I just remember being on cloud nine, and even though I was all of 9 years old at the time, I remember it like it was yesterday.  :razorback:   

Most of what led to that loss to Texas was because of Earl Campbell, even though he was pretty beat up afterward.  Also, wasn't that the same game where Calcagni got dragged down on their 10 yard line by his face mask, and it never got called?  I'm too old to remember now.

BTW, I met Earl several years later when we were living in San Antonio.  His son and my son were playing on opposing teams in a state HS playoff game, and we ended up sitting behind Earl in the stands.  He is a super nice guy.  I remember feeling sorry for him because he was so crippled up he could barely walk.

[DLUXHOG]

Every time I hear that argument, it just furthers my opinion that we deserved at least a share if not the outright title.  But...just like many other seasons, the Texas vs Arkansas game typically served to eliminate one or the other, so it seems we were just discounted immediately even though we lost to BY FAR the best team comparatively, versus the other two. 

For awhile the Bama vs LSU rivalry seemed to be shaping up that way, until they played each other for the second time in the NC game and Bama had a force field up at midfield that LSU couldn't cross.      I don't think LSU has beaten them since have they?   

The other two lost to unranked teams (on the day of the game), we lost to a highly ranked team, by only 4 points..

[31to6]

Arkansas does not have a championship.  Texas does not have a championship.  Notre Dame does not.  Neither does USC.  Arkansas was twice recognized as no. 1 in opinion polls, 64, and 77.  So what?  Other teams were also voted no. 1 in other opinion polls those years.  Meaningless.  2 Champions: Bama and OSU.  That's it.

I think I found a video of you earlier last year...
"All those other seasons? They don't count."
https://youtu.be/mrwUyBS_oGY?t=22

[Hogwild]

It was the Rothman (FACT), which was a selector from 1968-2006 that used math to determine the true champion.  It's not recognized by the NCAA, but some schools may still claim it (I'm not sure).  IIRC, A&M and Auburn both claimed retroactive titles recently and those are worse, imo.

The NCAA doesn't recognized any national titles in football.  The reason people only look at the AP & Coaches polls is because some teams go overboard in claiming titles.
Notre Dame doesn't claim the '64 title but they won National Football Foundation. We won the Grantland Rice Trophy, by a vote of 3-2 over Notre Dame.

Here are some of the worse claims to the national title in my opinion
Alabama 1941 finished the year 9-2(both losses were in conference) and was ranked 20th in the AP, 4 SEC teams were ranked ahead of Alabama. 
Auburn 1983 finished the year 3rd in both the AP & Coaches Poll. The top 2 teams Nebraska & Miami played each other in Orange Bowl, Miami won.
Pittsburgh claims 9 national titles, they also list another 8 that they say they were awarded but don't claim. 
Ole Miss claims the 1959 title, they finished 3rd in the SEC behind SEC champion UGA and LSU who beat them on the punt return by Cannon. Syracuse went undefeated and beat #4 Texas in the Cotton Bowl.  In 2012 Ole Miss declared they won the 1962 national championships, they finished 3rd in both polls. USC was #1 in both polls.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Since the NCAA didn't recognize NC's in football any team that was voted NC by any publication can claim they won the NC.  It's all the same...meaningless.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Since the NCAA didn't recognize NC's in football any team that was voted NC by any publication can claim they won the NC.  It's all the same...meaningless.

When I tell others that Arkansas won the national championship in 1964, it's not meaningless to me.

[westside_player]

idk

[KennyForAD]

Nice find Kenny. I was right in front of the television in my pj's soaking in every minute.

And I am glad someone else remembers the face mask no call.

I was at my grandparents house in Sheridan.   My first taste of Texas cheating.  Will never forget it.  About a month after Elvis died on the toilet, if I remember right.

[OS2 (SW) Razor Back]

Hogs win!!!!
Hogs win!!!!

Hogs win!!!!

[LZH]

I was at my grandparents house in Sheridan.   My first taste of Texas cheating.  Will never forget it.  About a month after Elvis died on the toilet, if I remember right.

August 16th 1977. I was at my daddy's drafting table at the office when the secretary got a phone call saying Elvis had just died. Didn't have the Internet in those days, but news like that travels just as fast. On September 8th 1977, we went to the Pine Bluff Convention Center and saw him. I probably would never have picked up a guitar if it wasn't for Elvis.

[KennyForAD]

August 16th 1977. I was at my daddy's drafting table at the office when the secretary got a phone call saying Elvis had just died. Didn't have the Internet in those days, but news like that travels just as fast. On September 8th 1977, we went to the Pine Bluff Convention Center and saw him. I probably would never have picked up a guitar if it wasn't for Elvis.

Elvis IS alive!

[LZH]

Elvis IS alive!

Thank you, thank you very much.

[Cinco de Hogo]

When I tell others that Arkansas won the national championship in 1964, it's not meaningless to me.

If you make fun of others who make claims then it would ALL be meaningless is what I meant.  We have our reasons for claiming one, based on the fact we were named in a publication.  You can't have it both ways and be legit, although you COULD probably nitpick a few outrageous ones.

[redeye]

The NCAA doesn't recognized any national titles in football.  The reason people only look at the AP & Coaches polls is because some teams go overboard in claiming titles.
Notre Dame doesn't claim the '64 title but they won National Football Foundation. We won the Grantland Rice Trophy, by a vote of 3-2 over Notre Dame.

The NCAA doesn't award a national championship, but I don't know if it's accurate to say they don't recognize them.  My point in putting it that way is due to this page on their website:

http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs

I guess that leaves it up to everyone to decide for themselves, but it looks like the NCAA has basically chosen to use the major selectors over the years and one of those is the FWAA, as you can see on that page.

Btw, I was talking specifically about why college football historians often only use the AP to rank teams.  I don't disagree with your reason for why everyone else uses it, but historians often just use the AP because it's easier then wading through the list of other selectors and picking out which one makes more sense.  And yet, when it comes to recent years, they'll still use the BCS and CFP, in disregard to their decision for years in the past.

Regardless, any time someone says that Arkansas didn't win the national title in '64, I'm gonna strongly disagree.  Yes, the AP held more value, but it wasn't the definitive selector it later became and most other selectors disagreed with the AP.

[urkillnmesmalls]

August 16th 1977. I was at my daddy's drafting table at the office when the secretary got a phone call saying Elvis had just died. Didn't have the Internet in those days, but news like that travels just as fast. On September 8th 1977, we went to the Pine Bluff Convention Center and saw him. I probably would never have picked up a guitar if it wasn't for Elvis.

May want to check those dates LZH.  You seein' ghosts? 

[LZH]

May want to check those dates LZH.  You seein' ghosts? 

Ruh roh....wouldn't be the first time.

[DLUXHOG]

It's a crying shame there wasn't a playoff for the 1977 season...(Hogs monsterous win in the Orange Bowl)

[Hogwild]

Here are a couple articles about the NCAA official record books and  your link

Also, the NCAA has nothing to do with crowning major college football champions. FCS has its own playoff administered by the association. But since 1936, things have been largely subjective at the highest level.

The NCAA's web page listing national champions is just that -- a web page. It is the regurgitation of a list gleaned from somewhere else.

It's also something different than what is listed in the association's football records book.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24596069/fringe-benefit-of-college-football-playoff-no-more-mythical-titles

Add in the fact that the NCAA doesn't award a national championship in football and schools can use almost any criteria they want to claim a title.

Does that mean "the NCAA recognizes Auburn as National Champions" in 1993 as the Auburn Web site claims? No. It means Auburn is listed as listed as being the champion of a "poll" that by 1993 wasn't relevant at all or even really a poll.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/05/16/auburn-football-1993-national-championship/9188121/

[redeye]

Here are a couple articles about the NCAA official record books and  your link
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24596069/fringe-benefit-of-college-football-playoff-no-more-mythical-titles

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/05/16/auburn-football-1993-national-championship/9188121/

I assume that's for me?  Good catch!

I'll point out that the webpage I cited doesn't list Auburn as having a national championship for 1993, though.  I looked, because it would have surprised me if it did.  Many other titles have been awarded in addition to those listed on that page, so why have it at all?  It probably does mean nothing, but I bet the point in creating it was to list the national titles the NCAA recognizes.  If not, then why have it at all?

It looks like a pretty good list to me.